GaleRoar Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 With the addition of Vacuum being added passively to all sentinels, it may be a good idea to add a mod that expands the range of Vacuum, possibly even universal to the other companions as well. It would solve the problems presented with the range nerf, but also satisfies the users of Kubrows and Kavats (though that may cause the Chesa Kubrow to require some changes). However, this solution does not solve the issue with companions dying causing Vacuum to stop working, but it is a compromise worth considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artemisfortune Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 57 minutes ago, GaleRoar said: With the addition of Vacuum being added passively to all sentinels, it may be a good idea to add a mod that expands the range of Vacuum, possibly even universal to the other companions as well. It would solve the problems presented with the range nerf, but also satisfies the users of Kubrows and Kavats (though that may cause the Chesa Kubrow to require some changes). However, this solution does not solve the issue with companions dying causing Vacuum to stop working, but it is a compromise worth considering. There are no problems presented with the range nerf. No one has even used it yet to see if it's that much of a difference. The goal is to breathe life into sentinels, not make sure you can pick up all the loot from the entire tile from one spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mdkirk95 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, JSharpie said: There are no problems presented with the range nerf. No one has even used it yet to see if it's that much of a difference. The goal is to breathe life into sentinels, not make sure you can pick up all the loot from the entire tile from one spot. This. Honestly, 5m is a fairly generous range for grabbing resources a person would otherwise pass while running through their respective missions. Though the fact that dropped resources are actually physically displayed with fx surrounding them causing resources to stick out as far as the drops available on the floor, it feels as though this justifies a mild range nerf all things considered, but regardless, i'm hoping that the carrier works off of it's passive with it's own special mod that increases it's vacuum range to it's original range "10/12m". :) Edited October 5, 2016 by Mdkirk95 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaleRoar Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, JSharpie said: There are no problems presented with the range nerf. No one has even used it yet to see if it's that much of a difference. The goal is to breathe life into sentinels, not make sure you can pick up all the loot from the entire tile from one spot. Personally, I'm of the same opinion, but this is merely something I considered amidst all the opinions flying around. In fact, the only companions I use are my Kubrows and Kavats. Edited October 5, 2016 by GaleRoar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Elctrcstel Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) doesnt really matter to me. ill probably still be using my Kubrow or Kavat. however, 12 minutes ago, JSharpie said: The goal is to breathe life into sentinels, not make sure you can pick up all the loot from the entire tile from one spot. this is what they (and we) were wanting. At its core, we all wanted viability to all sentinels and this is giving it to us. a 5m radius seems pretty generous to me. a "nerf" to carrier but a HUGE buff to all the other sentinels. Edited October 5, 2016 by (PS4)Elctrcstel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightBlitz Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 if it adds a sense of perspective, the new range will be the same as a rank 0 vacuum is now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 16 minutes ago, GaleRoar said: With the addition of Vacuum being added passively to all sentinels, it may be a good idea to add a mod that expands the range of Vacuum, possibly even universal to the other companions as well. It would solve the problems presented with the range nerf, but also satisfies the users of Kubrows and Kavats (though that may cause the Chesa Kubrow to require some changes). However, this solution does not solve the issue with companions dying causing Vacuum to stop working, but it is a compromise worth considering. I defiantly want this. As the reduced range is a problem for my Nekros build; I use an equilibrium-Despoil/Channeling melee build and picking up those drops are crucial to saying alive and keeping my energy up. This 5M radius translates to a direct reduction in survivability for that build in melee... Originally I was fine with the vacuum split as I could just put on the HP/Energy Vac Mod... Edited October 5, 2016 by Carnage2K4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauli133 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 11 minutes ago, JSharpie said: Sorry, let me correct myself. There are no problems for people who are willing to play the game as intended and aren't triggered by having to spent half a second walking a little bit closer to any kind of loot. Better? No, now you've gone from a plainly false statement to attacking a strawman and actively insulting anyone who feels or plays differently than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarticulate Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 14 minutes ago, JSharpie said: No one has even used it yet to see if it's that much of a difference. You know you could just equip your Carrier with an unranked Vacuum mod to see the difference, right? The proposed range of 5 meters for passive vacuum is the same range as an unranked Vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoninJed Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 18 minutes ago, JSharpie said: There are no problems presented with the range nerf. No one has even used it yet to see if it's that much of a difference. The goal is to breathe life into sentinels, not make sure you can pick up all the loot from the entire tile from one spot. But it doesn't (nor has it ever been able to) pick up all the loot from the entire tile from one spot. Almost three years playing and I have never seen anyone say or complain about carriers vacuum being to op and that it needs to have a smaller vacuum range. From 12 meters to 5 meters is more then half so i guess we will see what thats like whenever the update comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radastir Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) . Edited October 5, 2016 by radastir deleted because of futility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katinka Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 35 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said: I defiantly want this. As the reduced range is a problem for my Nekros build; I use an equilibrium-Despoil/Channeling melee build and picking up those drops are crucial to saying alive and keeping my energy up. This 5M radius translates to a direct reduction in survivability for that build in melee... Originally I was fine with the vacuum split as I could just put on the HP/Energy Vac Mod... What melee weapon are you using that has you worrying about being more than 5m from the loot drops? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashrah Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 range nerf is good thing for game less camp fest.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverlordMcGeek Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 57 minutes ago, JSharpie said: There are no problems presented with the range nerf. No one has even used it yet to see if it's that much of a difference. The goal is to breathe life into sentinels, not make sure you can pick up all the loot from the entire tile from one spot. 41 minutes ago, pauli133 said: No, now you've gone from a plainly false statement to attacking a strawman and actively insulting anyone who feels or plays differently than you. Cute how you try to argue an opinion about something that hasn't happened. "Strawman"? All you did was post an irrelevant pic. And, there was no insult. Not even campers play that way since they have to go through the same hallway they bottlenecked that is full of the loot they generated. OP, adding a mod defeats the purpose of making it into a passive. They went this route to conserve mod points/slots that was the concern about having multiple mods from the split. It would be something to add range based on how many kills or status procs the sentinel had done. A passive for a passive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Katinka said: What melee weapon are you using that has you worrying about being more than 5m from the loot drops? I don't quite see how that matters. The point of the build in question is to pick up all HP and Energy orbs to maximise HP and Energy collection via Equilibrium, having to stop and run over to a drop, stops the use of energy via channelling etc, I can see it just shutting down the entire system I'm trying to refine in this specific build. Edited October 5, 2016 by Carnage2K4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UrbanShade Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Why not a mod, that expanding range of all precepts? Shade's cloak arent that long, Deathcube's laser is weak, Djinn's aggro, well, dont know, Helios scan arent that op, maybe only CC sentinels (Diriga and Wyrm) will get significant boost, but i not believe, that they will became too OP, they will just compensate their shortage on stats, when u compare them to animal's stats (btw, not to count insanely stupid AI of kubrows and kavats, thats another topic, that should be adressed). So not mod, that will work only for Vacuum, but rather for all precepts, hidden (passive, in case of Steve's post) or onesm thats placed in precepts modslots on sentinels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katinka Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 18 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said: I don't quite see how that matters. The point of the build in question is to pick up all HP and Energy orbs to maximise HP and Energy collection via Equilibrium, having to stop and run over to a drop, stops the use of energy via channelling etc, I can see it just shutting down the entire system I'm trying to refine in this specific build. I would have thought that if you are in melee you would be within range of the majority of drops as you are in the middle of all the things that are dying. I was curious what melee weapon you were planning on using because unless it is one with exceptional reach I'd expect your targets to be in range of Vacuum without requiring much more movement than normal if at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Katinka said: I would have thought that if you are in melee you would be within range of the majority of drops as you are in the middle of all the things that are dying. I was curious what melee weapon you were planning on using because unless it is one with exceptional reach I'd expect your targets to be in range of Vacuum without requiring much more movement than normal if at all. With Channeling they often float off, and Despoil is not instant, much of the time you'll combo forward and not pick up a lot of the drops even with 10M. Don't get me wrong, you still pick up like 80% but getting into higher end mobs those extra drops are crucial. Edited October 5, 2016 by Carnage2K4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katinka Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said: Despoil is not instant, I was forgetting that factor. Yeah, that'll suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimera_Prime Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 The way i see it the 3 mods idea is still on the table within DE. Just maybe as range extenders not actual range. First get us used to the new range, then once things calm down bring in range extender mods for specific resources. Good thing or bad thing? I'm not sure. I'm not an exclusive carrier user, but i do use it a lot. I must admit that personally I'm not happy with the current proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Fe-McHamm3rShot Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 WOW, I'm seeing a ton of "vacuum" discussions in the forums today LOLcats. Old vacuum was 12.5m, new vacuum is to be 5m, peepl are losing their shiet... If DE made it 9m would there still be this much discussion? I don't really notice the grab from my carrier as I run around a lot in mission. It's only when I'm being a lazy space camping ninja boi that I really see the 12.5m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 25 minutes ago, Chimera_Prime said: The way i see it the 3 mods idea is still on the table within DE. Just maybe as range extenders not actual range. First get us used to the new range, then once things calm down bring in range extender mods for specific resources. Good thing or bad thing? I'm not sure. I'm not an exclusive carrier user, but i do use it a lot. I must admit that personally I'm not happy with the current proposal. Yeah, I said something similar in another post, the passive 5M on all Sents, and then have the 3 mods to extend to 10M for specific drops. I'd be fine with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 4 hours ago, JSharpie said: There are no problems presented with the range nerf. No one has even used it yet to see if it's that much of a difference. The goal is to breathe life into sentinels, not make sure you can pick up all the loot from the entire tile from one spot. Yes we have. Use vacuum unmodded. That's 7m. Your WF with no vacuum is 3m (yet it feels like nothing). It's easy to see what 5m is... its TERRIBLE. it's an 89% reduction in area of vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave- Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 4 hours ago, Inarticulate said: You know you could just equip your Carrier with an unranked Vacuum mod to see the difference, right? The proposed range of 5 meters for passive vacuum is the same range as an unranked Vacuum. unranked vacuum is 7 not 5, it's worse than an unranked vaccum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvus-Sol Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Warframes base loot system is... not the best. Vacuum is not like other mods and cannot be casually nerfed as such. Vacuum is a workaround, a band-aid, for the game's loot system. That is how DE needs to look at this when making their changes. Just because it is becoming universal doesn't necessarily mean it has to have a drawback. This is a quality of life pseudo-solution to a fundamentally flawed core element. If DE does this right it can mean they never actually have to fix that flawed core element, the band-aid will be enough. People need to stop getting so hung up on the "skill" of picking stuff up. There is no skill, just tedium that clashes with the faced paced and highly mobile gameplay of Warframe. It useless discussion that solves nothing. Vacuum is a band-aid mod. Universal Vacuum is a band-aid fix. If the new Vacuum is too weak of a band-aid, and people have to deal with the flawed loot system regularly, and DE is going to have a lot of problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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