The 're-buff' to Vacuum actually made things worse

[PrVonTuckIII]

Spoiler

So first, I just want to point out that there's zero reason to make thank-you threads for buffing Vacuum. People literally threatened them until they gave in. We should be ashamed, not happy with ourselves and them. They tried to make things better, and because of our childishness, the balance is worse than what it was.

On topic, the whole point of the Vacuum nerf was to ensure that the playerbase actually used something other than Carrier/Prime. With the nerf, there was actually some tiny reason to use something other than that Sentinel.

And then of course, players decided to throw a fit and make death threats to DE, and so they did the logical thing, and changed it so that every Sentinel had the original Precept.

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

...

So this is where's it's at? We whine, we rage, we threaten, and now the balance is even worse than when it started? This is what we wanted from the Vacuum changes?

[BornWithTeeth]

Also, I'm sorry, sod game balance for just a second (just a second, like, 'cos game balance is still super important) I'm sorry, what?

 

 

WHAT?

 

 

Guys, who the hell thought it was the slightest bit ok, thought it was in any way appropriate, at all, ever, to send members of DE actual frigging death threats? What? How old are you people?

[notlamprey]

We have something resembling a neutral starting point, from which further changes can be made to balance Carrier fairly against other sentinels without ruining the play experience.

You make it sound worse than it is.

[Shad0wWatcher]

What i actually fear now is that with some people in the community thinking that this is the course of action to take to get the devs to do what those players want, and that the same will happen to TWW...I really hope DE sticks to their guns on TWW to make it the best they can. It's sh*t like this that allow people to manipulate the devs, considering this...i'm worried about the mood in tomorrow's Devstream now that this has transpired...

Edited October 6, 2016 by Shad0wWatcher

[PrVonTuckIII]

Just now, notlamprey said:

We have something resembling a neutral starting point, from which further changes can be made to balance Carrier fairly against other sentinels without ruining the play experience.

You make it sound worse than it is.

We started with Carrier already carrying a little over half the Sentinel usage. Then we went to a point where there was actually a better reason to use other Sentinels (if a small, insignificant reason). Now, we're at a point where there is zero reason to use anything but Carrier. That's not good.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

Today's lesson: You can't please anyone. Ever.

[Sziklamester]

I also liked the passive vacuum but this not change so much because who still used another sentinels will use it whom want carrier will use it. The loot is now for all sentinel but eat a slot which is not likely but at least you can now choose from ammo mutation, scan, hiding etc. My opinion is the passive with 5-10 meter range still okay solution because you won't be lazy to go and collect and at least that range enough for you not dance on the loot.

 

Each sentinel has use and Shade still better than carrier in terms of use because the invisibility good for finisher and you can revive your fallen mates which is more benefical in my eyes than ammo mutation in the same situation.

[NPC]

Don't forget that all of the other sentinels are made of cardboard. 

[LSG501]

Lets be realistic, vacuum is not the real problem with sentinels (and companions if you look at the bigger picture) but it's being used as a band aid to try and fix the bigger issue that the sentinels are completely unbalanced and half the precepts on anything but the carrier don't work properly meaning most people just go and choose the carrier because it survives longer especially if they have the carrier prime with the higher stats, with the other 'assistive mods' added to the loadout.

Precepts apart from vacuum end up being pretty pointless once you get to a reasonably high level anyway and like I said the stats of the others are weaker so it means they get killed easier. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by LSG501

[PrVonTuckIII]

1 minute ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Today's lesson: You can't please anyone. Ever.

Are you saying we should be happy that we had to pay for our 'requested' buff with death threats?

[notlamprey]

2 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

We started with Carrier already carrying a little over half the Sentinel usage. Then we went to a point where there was actually a better reason to use other Sentinels (if a small, insignificant reason). Now, we're at a point where there is zero reason to use anything but Carrier. That's not good.

Again, you're assuming that DE won't make any further changes to sentinels / companions / vacuum.

They will, and now they can do it from a more neutral position. Meanwhile, those of us who want to play without worrying about picking up loot are free to do so.

Edited October 6, 2016 by notlamprey
i'm terrible at words today.

[KrypTic.]

Just now, NPC said:

Don't forget that all of the other sentinels are made of cardboard. 

Finally someone realises, Carrier p will still be my go to for long runs in the void, only Wyrm prime has enough ehp to actually compete with Carrier p's HP and survivability.

All this despite loving the S#&$ out of wyrm and djinn. 

[BornWithTeeth]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)abbacephas said:

Today's lesson: You can't please anyone. Ever.

And those of 'us' who play by sending death threats to the devs now feel like that is a way to get things done.

[(PSN)abbacephas]

Just now, PrVonTuckIII said:

Are you saying we should be happy that we had to pay for our 'requested' buff with death threats?

No. I'm quite literally saying: 'You can't please anyone. Ever.'

[OfPowerOfWant]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Also, I'm sorry, sod game balance for just a second (just a second, like, 'cos game balance is still super important) I'm sorry, what?

 

 

WHAT?

 

 

Guys, who the hell thought it was the slightest bit ok, thought it was in any way appropriate, at all, ever, to send members of DE actual frigging death threats? What? How old are you people?

Lol it sucks but Narcissistic Abuse AKA Terror threats is how most are raised, instructed and disciplined

#DothisOrElse or #ImTheVictim

is the modern blueprint of change

...yikes

 

[PrVonTuckIII]

Just now, notlamprey said:

Again, you're assuming that DE won't make any further changes to sentinels / companions / vacuum.

They will, and now they can do it from a more neutral position. Meanwhile, those of us who play without worrying about picking up loot are free to do so.

That's fine. I'll be the first to congratulate them when they balance the companions.

But as of now, we got what we wanted, but not at the cost we should have payed.

[-InV-Skitz0]

Am I the only one who dose not give a crap about ammo mutation? I have ammo pizza restores for a reason, they are cheap as hell and I have the resources to build tens of thousands if I wished.

[KrypTic.]

2 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

Are you saying we should be happy that we had to pay for our 'requested' buff with death threats?

Where has the official 're-buff' information been sourced from? sorry AU time zones.

[pauli133]

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

Carrier Prime is ahead of the others because it's tougher. The ammo thing is a minor perk, and vacuum is now a totally level playing field. The big thing that Carrier has that the others don't is survivability.

And if Ammo Case really does prove to be that big of an issue, DE simply has motivation to add other compelling precepts for the other sentinels.

[Eldnacpeek]

Did it ever occur to anyone that that the phrase 'death threat' was used as an exagerration (albeit, a dark one)? I'm in doubt that they actually received anything of the sorts. However, if it actually happened, I don't really have anything to say.

Edited October 7, 2016 by LazerSkink
letters

[Judgebanks]

10 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

  Reveal hidden contents

So first, I just want to point out that there's zero reason to make thank-you threads for buffing Vacuum. People literally threatened them until they gave in. We should be ashamed, not happy with ourselves and them. They tried to make things better, and because of our childishness, the balance is worse than what it was.

On topic, the whole point of the Vacuum nerf was to ensure that the playerbase actually used something other than Carrier/Prime. With the nerf, there was actually some tiny reason to use something other than that Sentinel.

And then of course, players decided to throw a fit and make death threats to DE, and so they did the logical thing, and changed it so that every Sentinel had the original Precept.

Sounds great except now Carrier has both the ammo mutation, increased ammo capacity buff, and Vacuum. Which firmly puts it a nautical mile ahead of the competition, if they could be called that anymore.

...

So this is where's it's at? We whine, we rage, we threaten, and now the balance is even worse than when it started? This is what we wanted from the Vacuum changes?

So have you made any suggestions? Or are you just trying to pretend to be something?

Personally I would balance Carrier's eHP to be closer to Diriga. Where as Wyrm Prime could definitely use a boost in eHP.

Overall I'd like to see more prime companions in the future to get a better base line of where each sentinel should be statistically.

Seriously though we haven't seen any actual death threats, is all we have are rumors thus far, however while you're up there on your pedestal you should let us know what the weather is like.

[Sziklamester]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

Lets be realistic, vacuum is not the real problem with sentinels but it's being used as a band aid to try and fix the bigger issue that the sentinels are completely unbalanced and half the precepts on anything but the carrier don't work properly meaning most people just go and choose the carrier because it survives longer especially if they have the carrier prime with the higher stats, with the other 'assistive mods' added to the loadout.

Precepts apart from vacuum end up being pretty pointless once you get to a reasonably high level anyway and like I said the stats of the others are weaker so it means they get killed easier. 

It is a good point.

Also have metal fiber which almost non used because most of sentinels have low armor.

Another issue the sentinel arsenal which is pretty lame and that supposed to be make them more survival than they doesn't use weapons. They haven't a real arsenal as example the deth machine gun is so weak and on high level with the almost zero crit-status you can't use it so long. Raw damage also bad and the rest is just not durable enough to survive on high levels. 

 

Until this not changing the sentinels will be in the same state.

[PrVonTuckIII]

1 minute ago, -InV-Skitz0 said:

Am I the only one who dose not give a crap about ammo mutation? I have ammo pizza restores for a reason, they are cheap as hell and I have the resources to build tens of thousands if I wished.

The fact that Carrier gives it for free means that every weapon that once relied on Ammo Muts now can spec for higher damage, or utility, or whatnot. It's a huge buff to Carrier, and to those weapons. Coupled with Vacuum, it makes Carrier a source of free ammo.

[SolaireTheSunWalker]

10 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Lets be realistic, vacuum is not the real problem with sentinels but it's being used as a band aid to try and fix the bigger issue that the sentinels are completely unbalanced and half the precepts on anything but the carrier don't work properly meaning most people just go and choose the carrier because it survives longer especially if they have the carrier prime with the higher stats, with the other 'assistive mods' added to the loadout.

Precepts apart from vacuum end up being pretty pointless once you get to a reasonably high level anyway and like I said the stats of the others are weaker so it means they get killed easier. 

 vacuum was the real problem because if you saw the chart DE put out the other day it was 52% use on carrier prime and 26% on normal carrier. That's being compared to the rest of the sentinels are like 8% - 4% and gets lower. Normal carrier has the same stats as basically any other sentinel so why does it have 26% when the next highest is 8% ? It's clear what the problem really is that's laziness or not wanting to miss loot 

[ranks21]

if all sentinels were tough enough in battle then everyone would use their fav one. that said vacuum is carrier precept many bought this sentinel because of that alone don't be biased and selfish because like you and your arrogant argument of bs we  ( the ones who spent money on this sentinel) wants our money's worth.