What would you say if DE put... Arcanes in Sorties?

[_Rue_]

On 10/12/2016 at 6:32 PM, --Q--Voltage said:

new arcanes in sorties would be cool but removing or bringing "Arcane Avenger, Grace, Fury, Energize, Barrier, Aegis" into sorties or the other ones would make these less value able and give players yet ANOTHER reason to not get into raids. The people that agree with OP are people that don't want an intro for raids but a substitute. Raid School Bus already offers a ride into a raid and learning mechanics. 

I hope you read the part of the op that mentioned the COMMMON arcanes would be brought to sorties. Please check again. Thanks.

It's not supposed to be an intro to raids, but a teaser for arcanes, hence only the common ones get moved, leaving only the rare ones in the TRIAL. Please check the op again before responding.

[Voltage]

3 minutes ago, _Rue_ said:

I hope you read the part of the op that mentioned the COMMMON arcanes would be brought to sorties. Please check again. Thanks.

It's not supposed to be an intro to raids, but a teaser for arcanes, hence only the common ones get moved, leaving only the rare ones in the TRIAL. Please check the op again before responding.

removing common rewards makes raids less rewarding. If the commons are moved to sorties, rare and uncommon arcanes are easier to get. Also, common arcanes are WORSE than Endo. If they add common arcanes as a repeatable reward to sorties, I will stop doing them. Arcane resistance is a sad excuse for a sortie reward. Leave both systems the way they are and add a token system with greater lens instead of lens and more endo in the bundles.

EDIT: I did read the OP. you want to make sorties be an alternative to raids. Raids and sorties have nothing in common so it doesn't "introduce" players into trials. 

Edited October 13, 2016 by --Q--Voltage

[_Rue_]

22 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Why should players who haven't dedicated the time and investment to complete the raid be rewarded the same as those who have?

Put in the time and effort and you'll reap the rewards. Stop looking for shortcuts. 

I have, got bored and tired. At least sorties have variety and surprizing challenge... yes people really need to put time and effort mostly spamming 1 power for one mission. 

 

14 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Raids are something you need to get good at. Even though you may think they are boring, it's the only thing for me that doesn't make me leave. DE has nothing to do, but raids provide exclusive rewards that create a challenge. The challenge is TIME. Trying to get a faster and faster time is what got me hooked. Currently my PR is 11:02 Normal and 11:33 NM IIRC. Raids rewards should not be given to people that don't want to do raids. I mostly go for the time, but raids are special because of arcane enhancements.

The challenge is finding a permanent raid group, or a decent one, not time, or the raid itself.

Kinda ironic that you say you like raids so much when  it seems like the only thing you enjoy is an artifical and i think arbbitrary record you impose yourself.

[_Rue_]

3 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

removing common rewards makes raids less rewarding. If the commons are moved to sorties, rare and uncommon arcanes are easier to get. Also, common arcanes are WORSE than Endo. If they add common arcanes as a repeatable reward to sorties, I will stop doing them. Arcane resistance is a sad excuse for a sortie reward. Leave both systems the way they are and add a token system with greater lens instead of lens and more endo in the bundles.

EDIT: I did read the OP. you want to make sorties be an alternative to raids. Raids and sorties have nothing in common so it doesn't "introduce" players into trials. 

People are talking about how it can be executed if you've read up. Nothing is set in stone. The OP presents an IDEA, not a rule or guideline. The goal is to get people talking about the possibility of it. You cannot judge something or predict the outcome when that very thing doesn't even exist yet. >_<

I never proposed an alternative to raids. it's a way to get people to notice arcanes that MAY eventually lead to more people playing raids because they now have a better idea of what they can get in a raid. Sorties and raids are VERY different. Raids are redundant and stagnant while sorties have a chance to pose a very interesting situation every now and then. I would never want sorties to be like raids... ever.

How are more rare and uncommon rewards in TRIALS less rewarding? The challenge? It will not change.

Or are we talking about PROFIT?

[Cloud]

It may sound selfish, but frankly I do not like the idea. We struggled to get those common arcane set and I don't like the idea that suddenly you can get them without problems in sortie. Moreover by removing common arcanes from trials loot tables, and keeping just rarest, those latter will turn from rares into commons (destroying their commercial value and wasting lots pl of people who have invested in these resources.) The arcanes and the huge gains derivable are the only things that push players to face those tedious sessions. If their exclusivity and their value were damaged, the raids would be even more ignored.

And frankly, people on Warframe go crazy about what they can not have more than any other community... yes, arcanes give good bonus, ma they are not worth all this drama.

[BlackCoMerc]

11 hours ago, NGSBRReAPeR said:

That's not what a raid is about

Raids are about solving puzzles 'n stuff

_{And they're not even that hard, people are just lazy}

No. They are not hard.

But we are not lazy.

We are BORED. Raids are the same puzzle. Every time. You only solve them once. After that, its just tediously doing the same thing every run. 

nor do we enjoy the lack of a dedicated server for EIGHT PEOPLE. Do you know how easy it is to experience lag when you have EIGHT PEOPLE on peer to peer? That is...not a good way to handle raids. In fact, Raids without dedicated servers should never have been a thing. 

The raids are boring, repetitive and samey. They dont involve challenging enemies. Instead, enemies are so over leveled that you CANNOT fight them. Just CC Cheese them into effective non existence. Its not fun. Not enjoyable. At all.

[(PSN)Exi-Eni-Eli]

9 hours ago, DEATHLOK said:

According to the wiki:

" Although Raid missions are officially removed, it is still possible to get this mission as secondary objective, along with the artifact drop rate."

Is this incorrect? Looking at my Navigation menu, I do not see an option for Raids. I have Quests, Alerts, Invasions, Syndicate, Void Fissures, and Sortie. Perhaps Raids are only offered once in a while? "It is possible" allows for infinitely small odds, as we've all seen.

If Raids have been removed, then why the objection to attaching the award to another mission type?

Hello. A simple question for you.

Raids were removed on PC? I saw someone else mention it in this forum, but I've never gotten word of it up until this thread.

[S0V3REiGN]

9 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

They dont involve challenging enemies. Instead, enemies are so over leveled that you CANNOT fight them. Just CC Cheese them into effective non existence. Its not fun. Not enjoyable. At all.

I agreed with almost all that you said except this part. The enemies are on the same level as those on sorties (80s), which I have not heard one soul claim they cannot be killed because they are over leveled. The reason why they get CC locked instead of fighting them is because the mission doesn't require you kill them outside of battery carriers but instead to complete a series of puzzles.

[(PSN)MiniMadness86]

It's a load of rubbish about how hard it is to find a team you only need 4 for lor and 5/6 for jv and no more then an hour to run all 3 not bad for 600-800k credits and 3 arcanes that could make you upto 600-700p ;) 

[BlackCoMerc]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)MiniMadness86 said:

It's a load of rubbish about how hard it is to find a team you only need 4 for lor and 5/6 for jv and no more then an hour to run all 3 not bad for 600-800k credits and 3 arcanes that could make you upto 600-700p ;) 

Or...you could waste hours trying to find a team, waste 100k credits on nothing but making them back again and get Arcanes so bad no one will pay you for them.

Which is far more likely than your scenario.

[NGSBRReAPeR]

11 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

No. They are not hard.

But we are not lazy.

We are BORED. Raids are the same puzzle. Every time. You only solve them once. After that, its just tediously doing the same thing every run. 

nor do we enjoy the lack of a dedicated server for EIGHT PEOPLE. Do you know how easy it is to experience lag when you have EIGHT PEOPLE on peer to peer? That is...not a good way to handle raids. In fact, Raids without dedicated servers should never have been a thing. 

The raids are boring, repetitive and samey. They dont involve challenging enemies. Instead, enemies are so over leveled that you CANNOT fight them. Just CC Cheese them into effective non existence. Its not fun. Not enjoyable. At all.

Exterminate, spy, survival, defense, mobile defense, capture, excavation, interception, sabotage, hijack and rescue are the same thing. I don't see you whining about them

You also forget that JV is an actual thing, the whole damn thing is focused on slaughtering infested

And have you ever heard of the Warframe Raids Schoolbus Community? You clearly haven't, it does wonders

[N64Gamefreak]

3 hours ago, (PS4)PuriDiv said:

Hello. A simple question for you.

Raids were removed on PC? I saw someone else mention it in this forum, but I've never gotten word of it up until this thread.

No, they weren't removed.

[Shiichibukai]

Would still not go after them, pretty much useless with the current damage/power creep. Literally wont make any difference to me.

[(PSN)Deception_Pharo]

On 10/10/2016 at 1:46 PM, _Rue_ said:

What do you think?

Add a fourth mission which is slightly harder and give a random arcane drop. Having the reward from 3rd mission seems futile but to make it more of a challenge, adding 4th mission will test the tenno if they desire the arcane.

 

I concur with you on having arcanes on sorties but to balance it, increase the enemies level by 80 or 90 and by having a 4th mission. This can be optional for players since it's harder, as completing the first three will remain intact and the rewards.

 

[BlackCoMerc]

58 minutes ago, NGSBRReAPeR said:

Exterminate, spy, survival, defense, mobile defense, capture, excavation, interception, sabotage, hijack and rescue are the same thing. I don't see you whining about them

You also forget that JV is an actual thing, the whole damn thing is focused on slaughtering infested

And have you ever heard of the Warframe Raids Schoolbus Community? You clearly haven't, it does wonders

I've done the first Trial with Vay Hek three times, and Sorties twice.

I have no desire to ever go back to either one for several reasons:

-The rewards are utter garbage. Insultingly bad, given the time investment it takes to level gear to get to those missions, and then to run them

-I find the missions unengaging and horribly boring. You arent fighting. You CC enemies into non existence and WATCH the game

-The scaling makes it a one shot death fest when you fail to CC enemies into non existence

 

I find the whole of Warframe's end game so offputting due to scaling issues and the constant tool/control robbing gimmicks from hordes of enemies, that I mostly just play other games now. I dip into Warframe now and then when terribly bored, but my days of buying plat and supporting the game are behind me, barring some major changes. I've got Shadow Warrior 2 and the Division for the coop for the rest of this year, and am desperately hoping for Destiny 2 on the PC in 2017. At this point, I am just slowly acknowledging that Warframe is becoming a game I personally no longer find enjoyable in anything but the smallest of doses.

[Eldnacpeek]

On 10/10/2016 at 5:55 AM, DawnThade said:

move lenses to be rare drops on the moon

 

Yes.

[Tsunero]

15 hours ago, DEATHLOK said:

According to the wiki:

" Although Raid missions are officially removed, it is still possible to get this mission as secondary objective, along with the artifact drop rate."

Is this incorrect? Looking at my Navigation menu, I do not see an option for Raids. I have Quests, Alerts, Invasions, Syndicate, Void Fissures, and Sortie. Perhaps Raids are only offered once in a while? "It is possible" allows for infinitely small odds, as we've all seen.

If Raids have been removed, then why the objection to attaching the award to another mission type?

The one who wrote that must have been drunk..if you build a raid key the node will show up on the starchart on its corresponding planet.

[12time]

None of my friends play Warframe, and every clan I have ever found myself in never does raids. When raids all of a sudden became a new thing I was taking a brief hiatus from Warframe. Now it's near impossible to find people that will bring a stranger into their raids, if anyone is even doing them anymore. To be able to acquire arcanes from sorties would be a perfect solution to that problem.

[VonDodo]

1) trials needs a reason for new players to be played... thus an unique reward is nice

2) arcanes are borderline useless ... i have really a lot (included grace and many Others) and i never equipped them (just tried to put 10 awakening on mesa helm but i don t really use them)... despite i sold a lot of them.

 

Thanks to wfchristx you can play raids once you get some runs completed... to complete first runs some nice people on the forum offered to run trials for newbies.

 

It mostly need one of the used frames level 30 with proper build (there are really many). Weapons doesn t matter and builds are usually cheap...also lor normal is really easy.

 

 

[NGSBRReAPeR]

On 10/14/2016 at 11:39 PM, 12time said:

None of my friends play Warframe, and every clan I have ever found myself in never does raids. When raids all of a sudden became a new thing I was taking a brief hiatus from Warframe. Now it's near impossible to find people that will bring a stranger into their raids, if anyone is even doing them anymore. To be able to acquire arcanes from sorties would be a perfect solution to that problem.

Look up Warframe Raids Schoolbus in the forums, there's your solution to finding raids :)

[NGSBRReAPeR]

On 10/13/2016 at 10:42 PM, Momo93 said:

The one who wrote that must have been drunk..if you build a raid key the node will show up on the starchart on its corresponding planet.

Raids and Trials are 2 different things, it's just that people have nicknamed trials to raids

Raids were a mission type that was basically a reverse deception and the only way to get banshee at the time

[NGSBRReAPeR]

On 10/13/2016 at 8:33 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

I've done the first Trial with Vay Hek three times, and Sorties twice.

I have no desire to ever go back to either one for several reasons:

-The rewards are utter garbage. Insultingly bad, given the time investment it takes to level gear to get to those missions, and then to run them

-I find the missions unengaging and horribly boring. You arent fighting. You CC enemies into non existence and WATCH the game

-The scaling makes it a one shot death fest when you fail to CC enemies into non existence

 

I find the whole of Warframe's end game so offputting due to scaling issues and the constant tool/control robbing gimmicks from hordes of enemies, that I mostly just play other games now. I dip into Warframe now and then when terribly bored, but my days of buying plat and supporting the game are behind me, barring some major changes. I've got Shadow Warrior 2 and the Division for the coop for the rest of this year, and am desperately hoping for Destiny 2 on the PC in 2017. At this point, I am just slowly acknowledging that Warframe is becoming a game I personally no longer find enjoyable in anything but the smallest of doses.

Your luck is just bad, there are great Arcane rewards from the raids

Hard to get one shotted tbh, you're just rusty after not playing WF for so long

 

And you're basing your Raids Experience on LoR and completely denying the existence of the glory that is JV which is an infested slaughter fest and a maze turned into a straight hallway after you play it a couple of times.

 

But I agree on enemy scaling, it's god awful in this game  and especially with armored enemies

[Tsunero]

1 hour ago, NGSBRReAPeR said:

Raids and Trials are 2 different things, it's just that people have nicknamed trials to raids

Raids were a mission type that was basically a reverse deception and the only way to get banshee at the time

Ohhh, that's different then. I miss those missions xD.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Putting them in sorties is the only way I would collect more than one, once I completed a raid once, I never tried it again and refuse to.

[VCaptiion]

1. Vaulted prime parts -> Derelict Missions
2. "Exclusive" event mods -> Non-void Sabotage Missions
3. Assassin Beacons -> Sorties
4. Lens -> Cephalon Simaris
5. Neural Sensors -> Void Missions

Not sure about Arcanes because I don't think these are necessary for normal gameplay.

 

 

Edited October 15, 2016 by VCaptiion