Humble.Priest Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Had a thought about exterminate missions to make them more challenging and rewarding. Too many players rush the mission, removing fun factor for other team members. If they became stealth missions, no damaging powers allowed, with an INSTANT fail for tripping an alarm, this would change the node to be challenging and fun. To further this, make exterminate missions have double resource, credit and affinity. Upon fail, Lotus could say something like "Tenno, emergency extraction... this mission is a failure" and see a bunch of other faction ships obliterate the ship you were on as the liset flies away. Having the alarms bring other ships in adds the drama. To introduce the changes, have a message that "Due to Tenno efficiency, all ships are on high alert, and triggering an alarm will cause the faction to destroy the ship where suspected Tenno have attacked. Turn this ship into a floating Ghost ship, and keep the enemy guessing. Wipe out all enemies, BUT do NOT trigger an alarm." This brings back stealth nodes, without being game breaking. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aligatorno Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 (edited) So, basically, if you alarm them, the other grineer do the job for you by killing all of their comrades? Doesn't make sense to me since you are there to practically kill every single living thing that exists . Also, wanting to force other players to play in your style is a really selfish thing to do. What's awesome about Warframe is that you can play the missions however you want, you are not forced into one style of play. You can go slow and meticulous, fast and savage or a combination of the two, forcing other players to play a certain way is a big no no. You can always go solo or recruit from clan/recruit chat if you want play a mission in a certain playstyle. Edited October 31, 2016 by aligatorno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirukaChan Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I'm not sure I'd like this replacing regular Exterminates, but this would be a cool concept to build on for a whole new mission type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JT-_-R3W1ND Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 Why you don't play solo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imaru Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 I think any instant fail mechanic is bad direction to go down. Even with Rescue missions you have anywhere between 30 seconds and a minute and a half to rescue the hostage if you trip the alarms, after which point you fail. Also, there is no real difficulty in a stealth run if you're running Loki (Prime) or possibly Ash (Prime) as they naturally have invisibility abilities. Additionally you have silent weapons like bows and melee in general. Furthermore, if you're a new player, you may not have the option of stealth because your equipment doesn't allow for it. I just feel like there are too many ways to cheese that idea or make it unplayable for someone for it to be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble.Priest Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 The issue with exterminates is limited enemies, and therefore limited resources and affinity. The node feels more like a place-holder than a mission. This doesn't force a particular gameplay, rather encourages a different style. I personally see no use for stealth in current games, but we have a plethora of stealth based frames, weapons and such. This would encourage use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aligatorno Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 1 minute ago, Imaru said: Also, there is no real difficulty in a stealth run if you're running Loki (Prime) or possibly Ash (Prime) as they naturally have invisibility abilities. Additionally you have silent weapons like bows and melee in general. Furthermore, if you're a new player, you may not have the option of stealth because your equipment doesn't allow for it. I just feel like there are too many ways to cheese that idea or make it unplayable for someone for it to be a good idea. Pretty much. Loki, Ash and Ivara would be the meta. Put a Hush like mod on the weapon and you can slaughter the enemies with the same ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble.Priest Posted October 31, 2016 Author Share Posted October 31, 2016 The cheese is real, and I am not suggesting that change. New players have access to mk 1 Paris, and possibly radial blind. Although I agree there should be some leverage. Instead of instant fail, only instant fail if lockdown is initiated, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Amaterasu- Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 3 minutes ago, Humble.Priest said: The issue with exterminates is limited enemies, and therefore limited resources and affinity. The node feels more like a place-holder than a mission. This doesn't force a particular gameplay, rather encourages a different style. I personally see no use for stealth in current games, but we have a plethora of stealth based frames, weapons and such. This would encourage use. Play spy/rescue missions for stealth, Forcing stealth when the mission is to kill everything there makes no sense and would just be annoying to everyone ever, I can almost guarentee nobody would be happy with this in any public game because 1. People can't stealth which will ruin it for those who can when there's one player who doesn't know how to hide and 2. People will intentionally not stealth for the instant fail. Exterminate isn't exactly meant to be played stealthily and if you want it that way you can just solo, as it is right now it might as well be stealth as far as logic goes, if everyone is dead then nobody is around to report there was ever an attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aligatorno Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 4 minutes ago, -Amaterasu- said: if everyone is dead then nobody is around to report there was ever an attack. That's pretty much me in every stealth game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koopagon Posted October 31, 2016 Share Posted October 31, 2016 instead of forcing mechanics to 'make things challenging and fun' and then punishing players for not adhering to them, why not add optional mechanics and reward them for passing them instead? like, make it so when an exterminate is completed in stealth, you get a 2x resource, affinity and credit bonus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolunde Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 25 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said: Why you don't play solo? This. Just play those Missions solo and if You trip the alarm then Abort and stat over. And really challenge yourself (o.p.) then if it's an Alert and you get "caught" then you're not allowed to re-try... Enjoy! Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmptyDevil Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Instead of an instant fail when alarms are activated, how about a countdown timer for the fail? The player would have to turn the alarms off or kill everyone before the timer runs, resulting in a failed mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)robotwars7 Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 53 minutes ago, -JT-_-R3W1ND said: Why you don't play solo? this guy gets it. as always, the solution is Solo. Solo exterminates are my favourite, just me and a bunch of unsuspecting enemies. I can go at my own pace, with whatever gear I like, and either challenge myself, or just kill for the fun of it. instant fail mechanics are never really a good idea IMO, and we definitely need a proper stealth system to be introduced before we start looking at the possibility of "stealth only" constraints, as it's too unpredictable right now. plus I would never want to go all stealth, as it's just not as fun as guns blazing. Solo is the way to go people, whether you care to admit it or not, it's the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx_mtv_xXx Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 We need a dislike button here lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble.Priest Posted November 1, 2016 Author Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) solo in a team based game, determines that a mechanic is broken. That is what I was trying to discuss, without breaking the game. anyway it is looked at, stealth will annoy some people, as will guns blazing. what is needed is a bit of everything. As for being "forced" to play a mode you don't enjoy, the game does that anyway. Codex scanning to open past Mars, and to get Titania, defense for people who prefer movement, archwing, etc. The list of in game modes will always alienate someone. Adding some nodes that force stealth gameplay just removes one faction of annoyed gamers. Edited November 1, 2016 by Humble.Priest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aligatorno Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Humble.Priest said: solo in a team based game, determines that a mechanic is broken. That is what I was trying to discuss, without breaking the game. anyway it is looked at, stealth will annoy some people, as will guns blazing. what is needed is a bit of everything. But you already have that. No one is forcing you to go guns blazing, no one is forcing you to go stealth, you can very easily do both. Quote As for being "forced" to play a mode you don't enjoy, the game does that anyway. Codex scanning to open past Mars, and to get Titania, defense for people who prefer movement, archwing, etc. The list of in game modes will always alienate someone. Adding some nodes that force stealth gameplay just removes one faction of annoyed gamers. Those are completely different things you are bringing into question. There a difference between forcing playstyles, having requirements and a missions objective. Scanning things is not a play style, it's a requirement to get something in return in order to complete an objective. Defense is a game mode, Archwing is the same, it gives you an objective to protect, it doesnt tell you how. You can slaughter them the old fashion way by sword or weapon, you nuke them with powers, you can cc and pick them one by one. Extermination already gives you the choice of stealth [being the best choice for focus farm as well], it's your fault for not taking it or expecting everyone to want the same thing, hence why solo play is recommended in such situations. What you are basically proposing here is to make a game mode be played only in a certain style because you like it like that, with no regards to what other people like. Edited November 1, 2016 by aligatorno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble.Priest Posted November 1, 2016 Author Share Posted November 1, 2016 11 minutes ago, aligatorno said: But you already have that. No one is forcing you to go guns blazing, no one is forcing you to go stealth, you can very easily do both. Those are completely different things you are bringing into question. There a difference between forcing playstyles, having requirements and a missions objective. Scanning things is not a play style, it's a requirement to get something in return in order to complete an objective. Defense is a game mode, it gives you an objective to protect, it doesnt tell you how. Archwing is the same, a game mode. And so should stealth be a game mode. As for forcing... no-one is stopping someone rushing through autosplatting everything. add a silence mod to weapons, and speed mods to frame, everything is dead before an alarm can be triggered. But having only 100 or so enemies does not justify auto-splat in my opinion. Affinity and resources for exterminate are abysmal. I would like to see the mode changed to something more rewarding. Plus the challenge makes the game interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 1 hour ago, -Amaterasu- said: Play spy/rescue missions for stealth, Forcing stealth when the mission is to kill everything there makes no sense and would just be annoying to everyone ever, I can almost guarentee nobody would be happy with this in any public game because 1. People can't stealth which will ruin it for those who can when there's one player who doesn't know how to hide and 2. People will intentionally not stealth for the instant fail. Exterminate isn't exactly meant to be played stealthily and if you want it that way you can just solo, as it is right now it might as well be stealth as far as logic goes, if everyone is dead then nobody is around to report there was ever an attack. 1 hour ago, Rolunde said: This. Just play those Missions solo and if You trip the alarm then Abort and stat over. And really challenge yourself (o.p.) then if it's an Alert and you get "caught" then you're not allowed to re-try... Enjoy! Cheers. 51 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said: this guy gets it. as always, the solution is Solo. Solo exterminates are my favourite, just me and a bunch of unsuspecting enemies. I can go at my own pace, with whatever gear I like, and either challenge myself, or just kill for the fun of it. instant fail mechanics are never really a good idea IMO, and we definitely need a proper stealth system to be introduced before we start looking at the possibility of "stealth only" constraints, as it's too unpredictable right now. plus I would never want to go all stealth, as it's just not as fun as guns blazing. Solo is the way to go people, whether you care to admit it or not, it's the truth. All the above statements are true and fixes the issue for most. It definitely works for me. I solo and stealth dang near every mission. 31 minutes ago, Humble.Priest said: solo in a team based game, determines that a mechanic is broken. The mechanic isn't broken. I say this because the mechanic works damn good when you remove the unknown factor. That unknown factor is other player's actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Humble.Priest said: And so should stealth be a game mode. As for forcing... no-one is stopping someone rushing through autosplatting everything. add a silence mod to weapons, and speed mods to frame, everything is dead before an alarm can be triggered. But having only 100 or so enemies does not justify auto-splat in my opinion. Affinity and resources for exterminate are abysmal. I would like to see the mode changed to something more rewarding. Plus the challenge makes the game interesting. Here's how you have a Stealth game mode. Switch to solo mode and play. That's it. All you really need for Stealth is patience and common sense. You will not get both of those requirements in random pick up groups. As KirukaChan said, it would make an interesting new mission. Edited November 1, 2016 by DatDarkOne correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble.Priest Posted November 1, 2016 Author Share Posted November 1, 2016 2 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said: All the above statements are true and fixes the issue for most. It definitely works for me. I solo and stealth dang near every mission. The mechanic isn't broken. I say this because the mechanic works damn good when you remove the unknown factor. That unknown factor is other player's actions. this isn't a solo game, and being forced to solo is the same as forcing someone to any other game play. Forcing solo removes player choice. In that, the mechanic is broken. Try running your solo missions with randoms, and watch the difference in reward level. The disparity demonstrates the broken mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aligatorno Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 1 minute ago, Humble.Priest said: this isn't a solo game, and being forced to solo is the same as forcing someone to any other game play. Forcing solo removes player choice. In that, the mechanic is broken. Try running your solo missions with randoms, and watch the difference in reward level. The disparity demonstrates the broken mechanic. Nothing is broken, you are not forced to play solo, you just can't expect other players to play the same as you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Just because is has multiplayer doesn't automatically make it a group game only. It's both a solo and multiplayer game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiePainPain Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 Suggested sometime ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ThermalStone Posted November 1, 2016 Share Posted November 1, 2016 (edited) Sounds like someone isn't good enough to get any kills before random teammates kill everything. Please stop trying to turn this wonderful crowd murdering and looting game into a sneaky stealth game. I can't stand the arbitrary stealth mechanics in most games in that genre. I hate being penalized for using my arsenal of destructive weapons and powers to kill everything as loudly as possible. I think it is the height of lame gameplay to have to hide from enemies that I could easily massacre. Warframe is not a stealth game. If it was, I wouldn't be playing it. Edited November 1, 2016 by (XB1)ThermalStone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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