Suggestion for an ''optional'' reintroduction of Friendly Fire Nightmare Missions.

[DeMonkey]

Not that they weren't optional in the first place.

My issue:

For comparison I can't stand Spy missions whilst playing Public, I take my time with a vault because I refuse to use a cheese frame and as I'm about to get to the console an Ivara breezes past ignoring any semblance of difficulty and does it for me.

That, in my opinion, isn't fun in the slightest. Due to that I play Spy missions solo. It's my choice to do so, and I don't complain about it on the forums.

So I truly don't understand why people felt the need to say that Friendly Fire Nightmare missions need to be removed, unlike with Spy missions you can get Nightmare mods from any Nightmare mission. It is entirely optional to run the Friendly Fire variants.

My proposed solution:

Simply put, give Friendly Fire back to us. Based on seeing comments/upvotes etc it looks like a greater number of people actually enjoyed the mission than didn't.

However it should be it's own separate node, a ''Dark Sector'' variant sort of thing. I.e. there would now be 2 Nightmare missions per planet, a normal one, and a second one that has a debuff and Friendly Fire on top of that.

Due to the added challenge said mission should also provide more xp and resources imo. Have it scale to the Dark Sector mission on that planet (assuming they scale properly through the planets), for example

''Dark Sector% + a flat 10%.'' So on Earth (based on wiki) for instance you'd get 25% more resources, and 22% more xp.

Due to the fact that Team Killing should have a downside I propose that you lose 10% of that bonus every time someone is killed through friendly fire.

Final notes:

People regularly complain that there aren't enough ways of leveling effectively, I'm hoping that this will provide a fun alternative to the normal Interceptions and Defences that everyone normally runs.

Also, some proper balance for Friendly Fire as well please.. We have no control over syndicate effects but they can quite easily kill teammates.

If you agree with me

Have a banana!

If you don't...

Eveyone's entitled to their opinion, you can have a banana as well! 

 

[Alcatraz]

41 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Not that they weren't optional in the first place.

My issue:

For comparison I can't stand Spy missions whilst playing Public, I take my time with a vault because I refuse to use a cheese frame and as I'm about to get to the console an Ivara breezes past ignoring any semblance of difficulty and does it for me.

That, in my opinion, isn't fun in the slightest. Due to that I play Spy missions solo. It's my choice to do so, and I don't complain about it on the forums.

So I truly don't understand why people felt the need to say that Friendly Fire Nightmare missions need to be removed, unlike with Spy missions you can get Nightmare mods from any Nightmare mission. It is entirely optional to run the Friendly Fire variants.

My proposed solution:

Simply put, give Friendly Fire back to us. Based on seeing comments/upvotes etc it looks like a greater number of people actually enjoyed the mission than didn't.

However it should be it's own separate node, a ''Dark Sector'' variant sort of thing. I.e. there would now be 2 Nightmare missions per planet, a normal one, and a second one that has a debuff and Friendly Fire on top of that.

Due to the added challenge said mission should also provide more xp and resources imo. Have it scale to the Dark Sector mission on that planet (assuming they scale properly through the planets), for example

''Dark Sector% + a flat 10%.'' So on Earth (based on wiki) for instance you'd get 25% more resources, and 22% more xp.

Due to the fact that Team Killing should have a downside I propose that you lose 10% of that bonus every time someone is killed through friendly fire.

Final notes:

People regularly complain that there aren't enough ways of leveling effectively, I'm hoping that this will provide a fun alternative to the normal Interceptions and Defences that everyone normally runs.

Also, some proper balance for Friendly Fire as well please.. We have no control over syndicate effects but they can quite easily kill teammates.

 

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If you agree with me

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Have a banana!

 

If you don't...

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Eveyone's entitled to their opinion, you can have a banana as well! 

 

 

I only agree with the part where you said bring back friendly fire. The solution I don't agree with. Do you have an alternate solution? I'd love to hear that vs what I just read already.

[Urlan]

How about instead; players that deal friendly fire kill themselves as if by environmental damage so no Rage interaction? That would give the feeling of forcing a feeling of team work or killing players that deal damage to teammates. This would cut down on 'trolls' and give a nightmare mode that would reward disciplined non-area effect play.

[DeMonkey]

13 minutes ago, Alcatraz said:

I only agree with the part where you said bring back friendly fire. The solution I don't agree with. Do you have an alternate solution? I'd love to hear that vs what I just read already.

No need to quote my whole post man, people know what you're replying to. You're the first comment.

And no, I'm a one solution kinda guy. What is it about it that you don't agree with?

9 minutes ago, Urlan said:

How about instead; players that deal friendly fire kill themselves as if by environmental damage so no Rage interaction? That would give the feeling of forcing a feeling of team work or killing players that deal damage to teammates. This would cut down on 'trolls' and give a nightmare mode that would reward disciplined non-area effect play.

Then it's not friendly fire, is it? o.O

Edited November 5, 2016 by DeMonkey

[-N7-Leonhart]

There was no point to this mode, other than forcing players to play solo. Instead, a lot of wannabe trolls were using specific frames (Ash, Wukong, Mesa etc) to assassinate newbies in such missions.

7 minutes ago, Urlan said:

How about instead; players that deal friendly fire kill themselves as if by environmental damage so no Rage interaction? That would give the feeling of forcing a feeling of team work or killing players that deal damage to teammates. This would cut down on 'trolls' and give a nightmare mode that would reward disciplined non-area effect play.

I like this idea. It gives the feeling of an actual negative modifier for all. Not just lulz, sh*ts and giggles for some, while hell for the "less-prepared" ones.

Edited November 5, 2016 by -BM-Leonhart

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

There was no point to this mode, other than forcing players to play solo. Instead, a lot of wannabe trolls were using specific frames (Ash, Wukong, Mesa etc) to assassinate newbies in such missions.

And yet some of us still had fun.

And given that it's a video game fun is surely the only point that matters?

It also didn't force you to solo. You just didn't like playing public. 

And that's fine, that's why I'm suggesting that normal nightmare missions are still there so that people who have an absurd definition of being forced to do something can enjoy Nightmare missions.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

And yet some of us still had fun.

And given that it's a video game fun is surely the only point that matters?

It also didn't force you to solo. You just didn't like playing public. 

And that's fine, that's why I'm suggesting that normal nightmare missions are still there so that people who have an absurd definition of being forced to do something can enjoy Nightmare missions.

Want to have fun at the expense of other players misery? Play Conclave. There, you can kill all the players you want. Although I am sure you already knew that. What is the matter? Is that too balanced and the 'prey' can actually fight back?

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Want to have fun at the expense of other players misery? Play Conclave. There, you can kill all the players you want. Although I am sure you already knew that. What is the matter? Is that too balanced and the 'prey' can actually fight back?

Didn't realise I was causing my friends misery.

I'm guessing it was just a case of laughing to hide their tears yeah? They weren't actually laughing and having fun, right? Because you clearly know how every mission goes down.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, DeMonkey said:

Didn't realise I was causing my friends misery.

I'm guessing it was just a case of laughing to hide their tears yeah? They weren't actually laughing and having fun, right? Because you clearly know how every mission goes down.

Yeah, I can already imagine a few Wukongs trying to kill each other.... Then, all of a sudden: "Oh look, some random fool with a non-immortal frame. Time for fun!"

It sounds to me like you didn't give a crap about the mode itself, and you just wanted PvP action. That is exactly what Conclave is.

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Yeah, I can already imagine a few Wukongs trying to kill each other.... Then, all of a sudden: "Oh look, some random fool with a non-immortal frame. Time for fun!"

It sounds to me like you didn't give a crap about the mode itself, and you just wanted PvP action. That is exactly what Conclave is.

Then I suggest you see an Otolaryngologist because you're hearing things. Not once have I said I want to kill people, not once have I said I actually played it Public.

No, if you'll read the most recent comment I posted I played it with my friends. 

Get this trolling mentality out of your head please.

[AandOE]

I provided a team tank for the durations of such awesome missions, by Blessing the Hek out of everyone, and then New Mooning when appropriate. Saw no problems, even after close range syndicate procs. The Vazarin Guardian shields also fully absorbed damage, so I can imagine that something like a low strength Frost bubble would be fine too, for spamming.

+1 to bringing back Friendly Fire.

Edited November 5, 2016 by AandOE

[-N7-Leonhart]

4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Then I suggest you see an Otolaryngologist because you're hearing things. Not once have I said I want to kill people, not once have I said I actually played it Public.

No, if you'll read the most recent comment I posted I played it with my friends. 

Get this trolling mentality out of your head please.

Aha, so the "I am a Saint, therefore everyone must be a Saint" thing.

Get this, DE introduced this game mode in good faith, right? Yet, they removed it shortly after. Knowing this, we can conclude that it must have been one hell of an urgent reason to do so...

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Aha, so the "I am a Saint, therefore everyone must be a Saint" thing.

Get this, DE introduced this game mode in good faith, right? Yet, they removed it shortly after. Knowing this, we can conclude that it must have been one hell of an urgent reason to do so...

Honestly, I really think you're a troll, or deluded. You keep acting as if I'm saying things I'm not. I'm no saint, nor do I think everyone is a Saint.

I won't be playing public for the exact reasons you bring up. But get this, I have friends. I have people who I played the mode with, and we had a laugh together. I want to be able to have fun in that mode again, in a way that doesn't interfere with people who don't like the mode.

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Honestly, I really think you're a troll, or deluded. You keep acting as if I'm saying things I'm not. I'm no saint, nor do I think everyone is a Saint.

I won't be playing public for the exact reasons you bring up. But get this, I have friends. I have people who I played the mode with, and we had a laugh together. I want to be able to have fun in that mode again, in a way that doesn't interfere with people who don't like the mode.

And why is that not in conclave? Are the skills too balanced there to have fun or something?

[GinKenshin]

if I'd make more additions to this, since I kinda like it: 

make it not solo-able, you have to be in a party of at least 2 to do it. since people can just solo it and get 2 NM mods from 1 planet

 

11 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Aha, so the "I am a Saint, therefore everyone must be a Saint" thing.

Get this, DE introduced this game mode in good faith, right? Yet, they removed it shortly after. Knowing this, we can conclude that it must have been one hell of an urgent reason to do so...

why so hate FF? I guess you've been 'trolled', but like Monkey said, you aren't forced to do it at all

see a FF? just leave it to cycle to a different condition. easy. people know damn well what they're getting themselves into. it says so at the freaking mission before you play it. 

it's not PvP btw, it's something like a death match or a fatal4way (for wresting fans). you form a group with someone else (aka: your teammates) so you can eliminate another person (aka: the enemy), but if you don't be careful, you'll hurt your team, and it was fun. being trolled is a personal experience  

you're acting like the main mission in FF is to try to kill your teammates. it isn't, you need to do the mission you came here to do (def, ext, cap...etc) while trying to not kill you teammates. it's not PvP at all >.>

Also, now that I think about it, why not add FF to the new clan-made missions? and the other NM conditions as well 

BTW: where can I get my banana now? 

Edited November 5, 2016 by GinKenshin

[DeMonkey]

8 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

And why is that not in conclave? Are the skills too balanced there to have fun or something?

21 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Not once have I said I want to kill people

Please reread that bit^.

My friends and I weren't purposefully killing each other, that's not what I found fun. What I did find fun was when it happened by accident, the whole team would then crack up. 

7 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

if I'd make more additions to this, since I kinda like it: 

make it not solo-able, you have to be in a party of at least 2 to do it. since people can just solo it and get 2 NM mods from 1 planet

Good point. I was initially thinking that given the increased xp/resources anyone wanting to do the mode would want to do it with as many people as possible. But you're right, 2 easy NM mods for soloers if that's all they want. I agree with needing it to be a party, not of 2 though. I'd say 4. If you want the extra Nightmare mod and extra lootz you have to go all the way.

7 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

BTW: where can I get my banana now? 

Just mailed it to you.

Edited November 5, 2016 by DeMonkey

[-N7-Leonhart]

13 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

if I'd make more additions to this, since I kinda like it: 

make it not solo-able, you have to be in a party of at least 2 to do it. since people can just solo it and get 2 NM mods from 1 planet

 

why so hate FF? I guess you've been 'trolled', but like Monkey said, you aren't forced to do it at all

see a FF? just leave it to cycle to a different condition. easy. people know damn well what they're getting themselves into. it says so at the freaking mission before you play it. 

it's not PvP btw, it's something like a death match or a fatal4way (for wresting fans). you form a group with someone else (aka: your teammates) so you can eliminate another person (aka: the enemy), but if you don't be careful, you'll hurt your team, and it was fun. being trolled is a personal experience  

you're acting like the main mission in FF is to try to kill your teammates. it isn't, you need to do the mission you came here to do (def, ext, cap...etc) while trying to not kill you teammates. it's not PvP at all >.>

Also, now that I think about it, why not add FF to the new clan-made missions? and the other NM conditions as well 

BTW: where can I get my banana now? 

So you mean to say that a PvE game mode was actually played for PvP? And you actually wonder why it didn't last long? Why don't you then propose a new actual Conclave game mode similar to this? Because I am pretty sure they are not going to reintroduce this same one again in PvE.

Edited November 5, 2016 by -BM-Leonhart

[DeMonkey]

11 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

So you mean to say that a PvE game mode was actually played for PvP? And you actually wonder why it didn't last long? Why don't you then propose a new actual Conclave game mode similar to this? Because I am pretty sure they are not going to reintroduce this same one again in PvE.

I think you need an eye doctor as well, where on Earth did GinKenshin say it was actually played for PvP?

''it's not PvP btw, it's something like a death match or a fatal4way (for wresting fans). you form a group with someone else (aka: your teammates) so you can eliminate another person (aka: the enemy), but if you don't be careful, you'll hurt your team, and it was fun.''

'' you're acting like the main mission in FF is to try to kill your teammates. it isn't, you need to do the mission you came here to do (def, ext, cap...etc) while trying to not kill you teammates. it's not PvP at all >.> ''

Those are direct quotes from their post since you apparently didn't read it. 

The objective is not to kill. A mission where you aim not to kill your fellow Tenno is complete opposite of Conclave.

Seriously, why do you even care that much? What I'm proposing leaves normal Nightmare missions as they are. I proposed a whole new node just for these missions so that there can be 0 issue with people not wanting to run them.

[Chipputer]

I get the feeling people against Friendly Fire have never played any older games where you were restricted from using Rockets and Grenades for fear you'd blow your allies up, unless you were in a favorable situation to only hit the enemy.

Friendly Fire is nothing new and Warframe doesn't shake things up enough to make it unmanageable, people just weren't used to it and decided to whine instead of adapting.

Trolls aren't a good argument. There are already plenty of them in regular missions-- they're forced to get creative with how they act, though, since they can't always directly interfere with your gameplay in a non Friendly Fire node.

[Urlan]

From my experience and that of most players I played with, it was more along the idea of those players not liking another player join their squad and kill them with those friendly fire unfriendly weapons and area effect damage. It might be better to penalize the players for team killing than to penalize the players for being team kill-able. That said, we don't know what reason was the official cause of the nightmare mode being removed, it could be for something unrelated or more because odd interactions.

As said before however, the mode was optional. Its conceivable that it could come back if there was player support and made more approachable for the majority of players.