Why do you think D.E introduced some very extreme... "challenges" with the TWW?

[NativeKiller]

For example, some of the Rifle Riven mods have crazy requirements such as 'Scan a Simaris target under the following conditions; do not use ANY abilities or traps, do not take ANY damage and also have a hobbled dragon key equipped'.

 

Also, the new 'kuva syphon' missions are also unintuitive as hek.

 

I googled stuff about the kuva siphon and know what to do now but with my semi-color blind eyes, doing the stuff necessary is still dang hard to do even when I know what to do.

 

Hek, even other people around me with normal eye sight seem to be having trouble doing the necessary stuff.

 

Perhaps, D.E got carried away...?

 

Just asking since I have no dang clue why they would do something like this. :)

Edited November 12, 2016 by NativeKiller

[Tricky5hift]

Uh...

Maybe because the want to challenge you?

Some of these mods I've seen are pretty crazy.

You think they'll let you get a hold of them easily?

[NativeKiller]

4 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Uh...

Maybe because the want to challenge you?

Some of these mods I've seen are pretty crazy.

You think they'll let you get a hold of them easily?

So it's another case of

 

"DID YOU THINK THAT IT WOULD BE THAT EASY!?" - Vay Hek

 

...Ok. But to me, there is challenging and there is absurd. :3

[Evers]

3 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Uh...

Maybe because the want to challenge you?

Some of these mods I've seen are pretty crazy.

You think they'll let you get a hold of them easily?

Still some of those have quiet harsh requierments. I got one right now (that i can't do because you can't buy Dragon Key BPs from the Dojo right now) that requieres me to finish/win 5 Waves of Interception, Solo, vs Level 30+ Enemies with a Hobbled Key (-50% Speed) without getting downed once.

[Azrael]

People have been complaining about "nothing to do" and "there's no challenge in warframe" for a long time. So DE tried to answer those complaints with a system of new mods which is clearly meant to be a long-term grind with powerful rewards. Some of these mods are crazy strong, but getting a good one requires grinding for a mod that fits a weapon you like, then grinding for the kuva to cycle it over and over till you get the stats you want. It's clearly meant to be a long-term challenge, not something you finish in a few days.

[AdunSaveMe]

3 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Uh...

Maybe because the want to challenge you?

Some of these mods I've seen are pretty crazy.

You think they'll let you get a hold of them easily?

Honestly? There's a line between challenging and ridiculous.

Getting four headshots in a single aimglide is a challenge. It's a good challenge. One you can enjoy, and one you'll get if you're skilled enough. Scanning a synthesis target, alon,e with a hobbled key, without using traps or abilities, is arbitrary, ridiculous, and not fun in the slightest. They're not even, let alone interesting.

It's technically a challenge, yes, but so is digging a grave with a knitting needle.

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, Azrael said:

People have been complaining about "nothing to do" and "there's no challenge in warframe" for a long time. So DE tried to answer those complaints with a system of new mods which is clearly meant to be a long-term grind with powerful rewards. Some of these mods are crazy strong, but getting a good one requires grinding for a mod that fits a weapon you like, then grinding for the kuva to cycle it over and over till you get the stats you want. It's clearly meant to be a long-term challenge, not something you finish in a few days.

It's not a long term challenge, most of them are one-and-done deals. It's not progression. You don't do it over time or build up to it.

We wanted more to do, we wanted challenge. But DE's idea of challenge tends to be baffling at the best of times. I'm betting most people didn't want something like the kuva grind, which is more of the same tedium but with a frustrating and poorly-designed mechanic tied to it.

Edited November 12, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

This is Digital Extremes...  of course there are extreme things.  XD

[Tricky5hift]

1 minute ago, Evers said:

Still some of those have quiet harsh requierments. I got one right now (that i can't do because you can't buy Dragon Key BPs from the Dojo right now) that requieres me to finish/win 5 Waves of Interception, Solo, vs Level 30+ Enemies with a Hobbled Key (-50% Speed) without getting downed once.

Yeah but it forces you to think outside the box.

Usually you'd just CC or trap the target.

Now try that without using abilities or traps.

Its all about thinking differently.

[Azrael]

Just now, AdunSaveMe said:

It's not a long term challenge, most of them are one-and-done deals. It's not progression. You don't do it over time or build up to it.

Did you read my entire comment? I clearly explained why you have to "build up to it." It's more than just a single challenge.

[NativeKiller]

3 minutes ago, sushidubya said:

This is Digital Extremes...  of course there are extreme things.  XD

And they are indeed most extreme with deadlines and time schedules. :)

 

I actually honestly thought that it was very likely for TWW to be released in 2017. :D

Edited November 12, 2016 by NativeKiller

[AdunSaveMe]

2 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Yeah but it forces you to think outside the box.

Usually you'd just CC or trap the target.

Now try that without using abilities or traps.

Its all about thinking differently.

No it's not. It's about bashing your head against a brick wall until it falls over or you do. You don't think differently. This doesn't make you think differently, it doesn't make you approach the game in a different way. It shoehorns you into playing one very, very specific way against your will and regardless of your personal enjoyment. That's not a challenge. You have no choice, no freedom, no option of your own clever strategy or skillful tactics to deal with the problem.

Imagine if one of them required you to silently headshot 50 enemies while they were currently saying a voice line, in one mission, without being detected, without using abilities. That's on the same tier as half of these things.

Edited November 12, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[AdunSaveMe]

1 minute ago, Azrael said:

Did you read my entire comment? I clearly explained why you have to "build up to it." It's more than just a single challenge.

Unlocking the mod is a single challenge. Rerolling it is RNG and grinding, which are not challenges.

[Tricky5hift]

1 minute ago, AdunSaveMe said:

No it's not. It's about bashing your head against a brick wall until it falls over or you do. You don't think differently. This doesn't make you think differentl, it doesn't make you approach the game in a different way. It shoehorns you into playing one very, very specific way against your will and regardless of your personal enjoyment. That's not a challenge. You have no choice, no freedom, no option of your own clever strategy or skillful tactics to deal with the problem.

Imagine if one of them required you to silently headshot 50 enemies while they were currently saying a voice line, in one mission, without being detected, without using abilities. That's on the same tier as half of these things.

Well I don't get the part about the "voice line" but still, its something different.

When something challenges you and its not very simple, you don't demand that somebody makes it simpler.

You find a way to make it work.

And yeah, challenges aren't exactly very friendly but they certainly wouldn't be challenges if they were.

[ShirakawaNaoya]

19 minutes ago, Evers said:

Still some of those have quiet harsh requierments. I got one right now (that i can't do because you can't buy Dragon Key BPs from the Dojo right now) that requieres me to finish/win 5 Waves of Interception, Solo, vs Level 30+ Enemies with a Hobbled Key (-50% Speed) without getting downed once.

I just cleared it with Trinity, Secura Penta, & Zenistar on Berehynia. Will probably need some HP or Energy Pizzas If you use other frame. And why on earth DE put the BP in that room (o.0)

Edited November 12, 2016 by ShirakawaNaoya

[AdunSaveMe]

3 minutes ago, Tricky5hift said:

Well I don't get the part about the "voice line" but still, its something different.

When something challenges you and its not very simple, you don't demand that somebody makes it simpler.

You find a way to make it work.

And yeah, challenges aren't exactly very friendly but they certainly wouldn't be challenges if they were.

You're not getting me here. There are ways to do challenging content, and this is not one of them. Yes, technically, it IS hard. So is recovering from a head-on collision. That doesn't make it a good thing.

You have to understand that NOBODY is demanding that it's made simpler just because it's challenging us. People want it changed because it's arbitrarily poorly-designed difficulty, it's artificial challenge, it doesn't call for skill or tactics. It is stupidly difficult. You think it's supposed to be hard, and it is, but not THIS way. This is a bad way to do it, full stop. Just because it's hard does not mean it's good. Filling a lake with a spoon is difficult, but I wouldn't make an Olympic sport out of it.

You can come up with way harder challenges than this that are actually well designed and people would be fine with them. You need to stop assuming that people just want it to change because they don't like being challenged. It's just downright false.

Edited November 12, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[Voltage]

The new mods aren't useless, but not needed as all starchart missions don't require these enhanced mods. Sorties went backwards and will end up just giving lens 90% of the time. The new weapons can be farmed in ~2 hours of sedna capture to spawn those Kuva Siphons. The only real thing I consider worthwhile was the amazing graphics improvements. Also, the quest was stale and was very confusing and unless you are hardcore lore guy was just another mindless quest that takes 1-1.5 hours. This update for me was dissapointing. 11 months since our last major update for something with less or equal content then Specters of the Rail imo.

[AdunSaveMe]

Look at this.

Look at this and tell me how this is enjoyable, challenging content, Look at this and tell me, if it is possible, how it can be done without cheesing or cheer luck. Tell me how it isn't just arbitrary, borderline BS. Tell me how this involves tactics or adaptation or strategy in any way. Tell me how this ISN'T very questionable design, and maybe I'll consider accepting the idea that Riven mods are just fine how they are. As an extra challenge, tell me how WITHOUT doing the "you just want everything to be easy" or ''it's MEANT to be hard" thing. Those aren't arguments. Tell me how, nothing more, nothing less.

Try to at least consider the amount of things out of your control that can go wrong while even trying to attempt this contrived nonsense. Think about all the tiles, enemies and spawns that might go wrong out of your control. Think about how often you'd have to restart. I'm waiting for someone to come up with a cheesy way to do it that completely invalidates it, because that's the ONLY way it will ever be fun, or interesting, probably even possible.

This is not the challenge anybody asked for, casual or hardcore. This is digging holes with chopsticks.

Edited November 12, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[TheBrightKing]

2 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Look at this.

Look at this and tell me how this is enjoyable, challenging content, Look at this and tell me, if it is possible, how it can be done without cheesing or cheer luck. Tell me how it isn't just arbitrary, straight-up BS rubbish. Tell me how this involves tactics or adaptation or strategy in any way. Tell me how this ISN'T stupid, ridiculous design, and maybe I'll consider accepting the idea that Riven mods are just fine how they are.

Aha so people ask for challenge and when they get challenge they poop in their pants

 

If people really wanted fun they would never say endless missions doesnt exist, they would do them anyways because they were supposed to have fun with that

 

So the fast answer to that... dont unveil it

 

The long answer to that, find a way to do it, thats the first funny part, the second is the satisfaction of doing it

 

If you cant find tactics adaptation or strategy in any way is because you didnt try

 

So yeah, more ridiculous rage that leads to nothing, dont unveil it if you are not capable of doikg so

 

[-Symbol]

I don't think you're unjust in your thoughts. I don't think the volatile approach you've taken is helping though. A lot of people have been awaiting challenge. Its a challenge that's there that'll reward you should you need to do it.

While I do think the Riven Mods need changing to be a little easier, I also think it can work unchanged too. These mods aren't essential, you can quite happily play the game without them, but the challenge is there should you want to carry it out.

Saying that its ridiculous and that its BS rubbish is wrong. No one is forcing you to use or take on these challenges. 

[TheBrightKing]

Just now, Moogleoftheages said:

I don't think you're unjust in your thoughts. I don't think the volatile approach you've taken is helping though. A lot of people have been awaiting challenge. Its a challenge that's there that'll reward you should you need to do it.

While I do think the Riven Mods need changing to be a little easier, I also think it can work unchanged too. These mods aren't essential, you can quite happily play the game without them, but the challenge is there should you want to carry it out.

Saying that its ridiculous and that its BS rubbish is wrong. No one is forcing you to use or take on these challenges. 

Thats true i share your thoughts

[SoulEchelon]

4 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Look at this.

Look at this and tell me how this is enjoyable, challenging content, Look at this and tell me, if it is possible, how it can be done without cheesing or cheer luck. Tell me how it isn't just arbitrary, straight-up BS rubbish. Tell me how this involves tactics or adaptation or strategy in any way. Tell me how this ISN'T stupid, ridiculous design, and maybe I'll consider accepting the idea that Riven mods are just fine how they are.

I'm thinking use a pet that can make you invisible. If that doesn't work, bring a long ranged silent weapon, go to Exterminate, kill everything from afar carefully, then get to your Simaris target. You can throw a Simaris stun thingie at them so they don't attack you while you're scanning them.

Really that sounds kinda easy. You just have to be careful and meticulous. Hell you don't even need to be "shoehorned" into using a ranged weapon if you think you're ninja enough. imo, this actually sounds like a fun challenge.

[AdunSaveMe]

2 minutes ago, mstriker said:

Aha so people ask for challenge and when they get challenge they poop in their pants

Do you think requiring 20 kills with a hobbled key equipped while wall running or latching without touching the ground is a challenge? it is literally impossible unless you take a very specific build that invalidates it completely. Where is the skill in that? The tactics? The strategy?

You haven't made any arguments or any counter-arguments to anything I've said. You've just spouted the generic "you're bad" rubbish. It's bad design, plain and simple. Nobody is upset because it's hard. Absolutely nobody.

You're missing the point entirely. Of course, people like you always give exactly the same response. I don't know why I bother. You're probably going to respond with the same thing to this.

Edited November 12, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[NativeKiller]

3 minutes ago, SoulEchelon said:

I'm thinking use a pet that can make you invisible. If that doesn't work, bring a long ranged silent weapon, go to Exterminate, kill everything from afar carefully, then get to your Simaris target. You can throw a Simaris stun thingie at them so they don't attack you while you're scanning them.

Really that sounds kinda easy. You just have to be careful and meticulous. Hell you don't even need to be "shoehorned" into using a ranged weapon if you think you're ninja enough. imo, this actually sounds like a fun challenge.

I heard that pets or sentinels using abilities could auto fail the mission for you. :3

 

Also, sometimes the conditions are like flat out 'do not use ANY traps'.

Edited November 12, 2016 by NativeKiller

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, SoulEchelon said:

You can throw a Simaris stun thingie at them so they don't attack you while you're scanning them.

No you can't. That's a trap, and you can't use those.

And again. Very, very, very specific build. No tactics or strategy. Just take the one build that invalidates it completely.