DE we NEED to have a serious talk about Riven mods

[Xzorn]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

 

OK mister 40,000 plat and never put in a single dime to support DE

You basically just leech off of both the Devs and fellow players to collect that much plat and not pay for any of it

 

I do my part for this community and I said I didn't buy plat  I've simply seen no need to purchase plat. It's quite easy to attain and doing so robs me of play value. I rarely buy anything from the player market either. I would rather farm for it because it means more time I can invest in the game.

Either way it's better than giving someone money then telling them entitled opinions on what they should do.

How do you think WoW got so bad?  People with entitled opinions.

Trying to look down on me for not purchasing something I neither want nor need is a perfect example.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

7 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

Indeed, and now we have this baited hook of a teaser site:

https://warframe.com/thewarwithin/rivenmods

"Ooh, you're unworthy of this great thing right now, but maybe if you behave I'll give you my approval and ultimate goodies."

Witholding approval: at nearly any other time, this flavor text would have looked like an interesting hint of things to come. A new character, with their own agenda to pursue? Neat.

In the current context of the Riven Mod Loot Lottery, however, this reads like a hook to entice people into adopting a poison system.

"Stay tuned, and definitely adopt our new lottery system with enthusiasm! A really cool thing is coming, we promise!"

It's a bad look. Again, I'm sure that this isn't intentional, but it's setting off multiple red flags for folks who have been burned in the past by abusive practices.

Im smelling more Riven stuff. Riven frames, riven companions, riven consumables, maybe even Prime Rivens.

Might as well make Riven arcanes and riven cosmetics with random stat bonuses as well

[notlamprey]

Digging a little, it appears that some of the first tweets about Riven Mods came from a... suspicious-looking account.

https://twitter.com/filipebot

Edited November 14, 2016 by notlamprey

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

2 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

Breaking now in one of my ongoing conversation threads, it appears that the first tweets about Riven Mods came from a... suspicious-looking account.

https://twitter.com/filipebot

DE is hiring BOT SPAMMERS to hype up the Riven system... WOW

 

This rabbit hole just got a whole lot deeper... and darker

[CRCGamer]

9 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

It's a bad look. Again, I'm sure that this isn't intentional, but it's setting off multiple red flags for folks who have been burned in the past by abusive practices.

*cough* NEXON *cough* practically any of the titles under their control.

Initial release D3 also comes to mind... and no, that is most certainly not a good thing. That game basically died within the opening launch month for the casual players. This isn't a good thing they've put into play here. Its a freaking poison pill that some bean-counter thinks is a swell idea for promoting plat sales. Which might work short term, but is going to cannibalize their market in ways they'd not believe... but that the Blizzard team knows all too well from prior experience.

The problem is by opening this Pandora's box they've shoved themselves into a corner because no matter what they do now they WILL lose a chunk of their player base. Either they remove the stupidity that is this system entirely and lose players that bought power or they leave it and lose the entire casual player segment that already has been burned in the past by such practices. Which is going to be a pretty damn large segment to be honest. We've had years to get jaded by the online P2W offerings already in play elsewhere.

[GrimAtrament]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

DE is hiring BOT SPAMMERS to hype up the Riven system... WOW

 

This rabbit hole just got a whole lot deeper... and darker

or there just hyping it on there own calm down conspiracy theorist 

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

2 minutes ago, CRCGamer said:

*cough* NEXON *cough* practically any of the titles under their control.

Initial release D3 also comes to mind... and no, that is most certainly not a good thing. That game basically died within the opening launch month for the casual players. This isn't a good thing they've put into play here. Its a freaking poison pill that some bean-counter thinks is a swell idea for promoting plat sales. Which might work short term, but is going to cannibalize their market in ways they'd not believe... but that the Blizzard team knows all too well from prior experience.

The problem is by opening this Pandora's box they've shoved themselves into a corner because no matter what they do now they WILL lose a chunk of their player base. Either they remove the stupidity that is this system entirely and lose players that bought power or they leave it and lose the entire casual player segment that already has been burned in the past by such practices. Which is going to be a pretty damn large segment to be honest. We've had years to get jaded by the online P2W offerings already in play elsewhere.

I think they will definitely leave it in and hype up the Infested Ordis Ship quest update for brand new Xmas noobs to come and buy Riven power to catch up

Edited November 14, 2016 by (PS4)True_Reclaimer

[notlamprey]

2 minutes ago, CRCGamer said:

*cough* NEXON *cough* practically any of the titles under their control.

Initial release D3 also comes to mind... and no, that is most certainly not a good thing. That game basically died within the opening launch month for the casual players. This isn't a good thing they've put into play here. Its a freaking poison pill that some bean-counter thinks is a swell idea for promoting plat sales. Which might work short term, but is going to cannibalize their market in ways they'd not believe... but that the Blizzard team knows all too well from prior experience.

The problem is by opening this Pandora's box they've shoved themselves into a corner because no matter what they do now they WILL lose a chunk of their player base. Either they remove the stupidity that is this system entirely and lose players that bought power or they leave it and lose the entire casual player segment that already has been burned in the past by such practices. Which is going to be a pretty damn large segment to be honest. We've had years to get jaded by the online P2W offerings already in play elsewhere.

Absolutely. I remember D3 at launch; my brother and I both pre-ordered to play together.

We felt so stupid.

At this point, DE may have already lost the ability to do any meaningful damage control. Word spreads fast on the internet, and bad reputations last a long time.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

1 minute ago, hazerddex said:

or there just hyping it on there own calm down conspiracy theorist 

Its literally called Filipe Bot and was promoting the Samsung S7 before DE bought the service for Riven mod spam

[GrimAtrament]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

Its literally called Filipe Bot and was promoting the Samsung S7 before DE bought the service for Riven mod spam

do you have evidence or are you just guessing?

 

maybe fillpe bot is just his name also no spamm bots going to call itself a bot unless they want the ban hammer.

 

maybe they just really like warframe and samsung you have 0 proof

my twitter name is hazerddex you can make your name ANYTHING

i meen look at your name even ture_claimer does that meen you reclaim everything? 

Edited November 14, 2016 by hazerddex

[Hyacinth]

i couldn't agree more. rngbased mods + more grind. looks like time to step-in to my cryopod again til this Riven mods is (removed/replaced/fixed).

[Brasten]

I said in my General Feed Back on TWW, but I'll add to it here.

Riven Mods jumped the gun. These need to have been held until after a Damage 3.0 rework. They also need to be slow rolled and discussed with the community. With DE being very active in watching them in the first few days, not left over a weekend.

So far we've seen scams, power explosions (not slow creeping), large amounts of Plat trading hands (also see scams). The existence of these Mods is a massive instability at exactly the wrong time for DEs image as a developer. The only way this could be more damaging is if 1) Kuva could be bought for Plat from the Market, 2) Riven Mods appeared randomly in Dragon Mod Packs (Plat buy) from Market.

DE needs to get a Developer Workshop up ASAP, and be ready to respond. This cannot wait for the Dev Stream. We've already had 2 days for the specualtion Plat trading, scamming, and up to 4 (5 total) Sortie based Riven mods being generated per player. Every day there is delay more Riven Mods will be generated and the harder it will be for DE to do any kind of correction/adjustment.

Riven Mods needed to have been their own update. Watched very closely. With DE ready to "back out" if it soured. Not thrown on at the 13th hour on a update that was already having major issues with deployment.

The concept is Interesting. But the execution is a hot mess, that is standing on the already shaky foundation of Damage 2.0. Not to mention the scam-able trade issues such as not showing number of Re-Rolls on the mod. This was an unthinking hasty addition, trying to add an "End Game" activity without proper testing and examination of the ramifications.

And this is without accusing DE of trying to make a quick buck off a sudden surge in Plat sales that were lost when the Relic/Prime market crashed. Because that would be a cynical move to squeeze cash out of a game already on the back-foot from prolonged development delays and a contracting player base (due to those delays). And way to tarnish both DE and Perfect World (China) reputation, which many customers are already skeptical about. 

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

44 minutes ago, Hyacinth said:

i couldn't agree more. rngbased mods + more grind. looks like time to step-in to my cryopod again til this Riven mods is (removed/replaced/fixed).

Time for the 3rd dream

 

Wake me when its fixed

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

5 minutes ago, Brasten said:

The only way this could be more damaging is if 1) Kuva could be bought for Plat from the Market, 2) Riven Mods appeared randomly in Dragon Mod Packs (Plat buy) from Market.

Wont even surprise me if DE adds in Kuva as a purchasable market resource just like all the others except Nitain and Argon, and also introduce Riven Mod packs for plat

[Mr._Clean]

I can see it now. Now that the CS:GO gambling scheme has been broken Warframe will have a new one with Riven mods.

[ZephyrPrime]

53 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

do you have evidence or are you just guessing?

 

maybe fillpe bot is just his name also no spamm bots going to call itself a bot unless they want the ban hammer.

 

maybe they just really like warframe and samsung you have 0 proof

my twitter name is hazerddex you can make your name ANYTHING

i meen look at your name even ture_claimer does that meen you reclaim everything? 

Yeah, that's why they tweeted the same picture twice, put #RivenMods (Which just so HAPPENS to be filtered onto Warframe's homepage under that hashtag), and links to sites that I've only seen email bots link to. Ex: "I just won a free phone!: (scam site here)"  

  

This is a bot, you don't have to spend 5 minutes on the page to figure it out. 

[DEATHLOK]

Thanks for making this thread.

[Jukantos]

3 hours ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

I feel like if they were only for old weapons... all the other issues would be overlooked

Exactly. I would've JUMPED at an opportunity to revitalize my beloved Latron Prime, or even the Braton and Burston prime, but the fact that they exist for Tonkor and Simulor as well mean that we have content coming our way that is going to demand we exclusively play with these numerically "best" weapons WITH these overpowered mods on them to survive it, OR alternatively all the content will be ridicolously easy and thus has to be made very unrewarding so that people with strong mods can't simply outfarm the rest of the playerbase.

 

Neither of these two scenarios is great and the whole RNG stats on it REALLY make it seem like something that wasn't designed by DE, it goes against SO many of their core philosophies they have upheld for years (not always successfully, but hey).

Not to mention the fact that for some ungodly reason these mods that can have straight damage upgrades somehow slipped through the cracks and made it into PvP legality lists. Like what the hecko? It seems like a system hastily fluffed on top of an otherwise complete package in a way too short amount of time (hence why you get one at the end of TWW and they're in no way built into the narrative).

Are you still the lords of your own house DE? If so, please, explain the design philosophy behind these. I'm more than willing to listen to arguments on both sides, the advantages of mods like these exististing to revive old "unviable" weapons is obvious (heck i now own a VIABLE supra, never thought i'd say those words) but there just seem to be out-of-line design choices with them everywhere. How'd this get greenlit? How was noone asked about the potential market implications of this? The balancing and powercreep that now is harder to balance for than ever (unless you wanna dynamically scale enemies with riven mod presence but that not only makes them pointless but yet again penalizes those who don't have them / don't have good ones).

 

I just seems a bit unfinished and i think a lot of people would like to hear some pro and con arguments for their existance and some design reasoning. There are too many oddities for this to go well for a longer period of time. Not to MENTION acquiring them at random through sorties is frustrating as hell. Since TWW is out i've done the 4 sorties every single day and i've gotten 2000 endo every single time. I'm VERY tempted to just stop doing them alltogether because of that frustrating RNG.

[Hiakuryu]

21 hours ago, Virsalus said:

The idea of this system is nice at heart, it offers the opportunity to diversify things. But the reality looks different I'm afraid. Most of these new mods will be outright useless and just a few will be so overpowered that the balance this game had before will be gone. Prior to this there were some rarer mods but they were not as rare as the best riven mods that can be rolled now. There was a fair chance for everyone to acquire at least most of the mods (barring crazy stuff like Primed Chamber, btw. how about making that more available?).

Once you did your work and got your hands on those mods, you could make the viable builds that had been known from the end game pre TWW. Now however there will be a select "elite" (chosen by RNG and financial wealth / willingness to pay for the OP riven mods) that will be able to completely blow all those established builds out of the water and everyone else can only watch in awe because they just won't have that luck and no amount of work they put into the game will enable them to make use of the new high end builds themselves.

This system creates an inequality among the players that has never been there before in this game and if this is not addressed soon, it may very well be the beginning of the end.

This. A million times this. I've got access to a crap ton of plat, I've got everything, ffs I'm a Grandmaster Founder but my friend, who only started last year is now almost equal to me. This is what I love about the game, that everyone has the same chances and the same access to the same gear, only if we put the time and effort into it. Now with the riven mods we'll end up with the game design taking the mods into account and end tier content being open to only the lucky or those willing to spend a load of plat. 

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

6 hours ago, Mr._Clean said:

I can see it now. Now that the CS:GO gambling scheme has been broken Warframe will have a new one with Riven mods.

 

4 hours ago, Jukantos said:

Exactly. I would've JUMPED at an opportunity to revitalize my beloved Latron Prime, or even the Braton and Burston prime, but the fact that they exist for Tonkor and Simulor as well mean that we have content coming our way that is going to demand we exclusively play with these numerically "best" weapons WITH these overpowered mods on them to survive it, OR alternatively all the content will be ridicolously easy and thus has to be made very unrewarding so that people with strong mods can't simply outfarm the rest of the playerbase.

 

Neither of these two scenarios is great and the whole RNG stats on it REALLY make it seem like something that wasn't designed by DE, it goes against SO many of their core philosophies they have upheld for years (not always successfully, but hey).

Not to mention the fact that for some ungodly reason these mods that can have straight damage upgrades somehow slipped through the cracks and made it into PvP legality lists. Like what the hecko? It seems like a system hastily fluffed on top of an otherwise complete package in a way too short amount of time (hence why you get one at the end of TWW and they're in no way built into the narrative).

Are you still the lords of your own house DE? If so, please, explain the design philosophy behind these. I'm more than willing to listen to arguments on both sides, the advantages of mods like these exististing to revive old "unviable" weapons is obvious (heck i now own a VIABLE supra, never thought i'd say those words) but there just seem to be out-of-line design choices with them everywhere. How'd this get greenlit? How was noone asked about the potential market implications of this? The balancing and powercreep that now is harder to balance for than ever (unless you wanna dynamically scale enemies with riven mod presence but that not only makes them pointless but yet again penalizes those who don't have them / don't have good ones).

 

I just seems a bit unfinished and i think a lot of people would like to hear some pro and con arguments for their existance and some design reasoning. There are too many oddities for this to go well for a longer period of time. Not to MENTION acquiring them at random through sorties is frustrating as hell. Since TWW is out i've done the 4 sorties every single day and i've gotten 2000 endo every single time. I'm VERY tempted to just stop doing them alltogether because of that frustrating RNG.

 

4 hours ago, Hiakuryu said:

This. A million times this. I've got access to a crap ton of plat, I've got everything, ffs I'm a Grandmaster Founder but my friend, who only started last year is now almost equal to me. This is what I love about the game, that everyone has the same chances and the same access to the same gear, only if we put the time and effort into it. Now with the riven mods we'll end up with the game design taking the mods into account and end tier content being open to only the lucky or those willing to spend a load of plat. 

Ill repeat my previous statement here.

Warframe is entirely standardized. Drop chances, loot, stats, etc. Its all the same for every player. Regardless of what people acquire or use, everything IS obtainable (other than Excal Prime) and everything is the same no matter who owns it.

This update destroyed that perfect balance.

That is the biggest issue.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

6 hours ago, DEATHLOK said:

Thanks for making this thread.

Dont thank me yet my friend

If changes arent made then my words did nothing but add salt in the wound

I really hope DE cracks down on the RNG portion and buffs up the non meta mods (like for crap weapons)

Also need to fix the trade scam issues

[TalRusher]

1 hour ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

Dont thank me yet my friend

If changes arent made then my words did nothing but add salt in the wound

I really hope DE cracks down on the RNG portion and buffs up the non meta mods (like for crap weapons)

Also need to fix the trade scam issues

If changes arent made then Im leaving.

I absolutely agree with you on all of your points (of your original post).

Mindless farming in order to have an abysmal low chance to get a great mod, just doesn't sound like fun to me (at all). And when I see people getting lucky with godly mods while I farm my life away I just feel frustration, anger and envy.

This is the first time (as far as I can remember) to voice my opinion (in the Warframe forum) against a game mechanic and it seriously might be the last time if nothing changes. As sad as that makes me, because I like Warframe.

[notlamprey]

1 hour ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

Dont thank me yet my friend

If changes arent made then my words did nothing but add salt in the wound

I really hope DE cracks down on the RNG portion and buffs up the non meta mods (like for crap weapons)

Also need to fix the trade scam issues

If nothing is done, at least we can go *painfully* into that long night with the knowledge that we did right by ourselves, the game, the company and other players.

Folks just joining the community need to see what trouble threatens in the future before they make decisions about whether to spend money on this game.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

1 hour ago, TalRusher said:

If changes arent made then Im leaving.

I absolutely agree with you on all of your points (of your original post).

Mindless farming in order to have an abysmal low chance to get a great mod, just doesn't sound like fun to me (at all). And when I see people getting lucky with godly mods while I farm my life away I just feel frustration, anger and envy.

This is the first time (as far as I can remember) to voice my opinion (in the Warframe forum) against a game mechanic and it seriously might be the last time if nothing changes. As sad as that makes me, because I like Warframe.

 

1 hour ago, notlamprey said:

If nothing is done, at least we can go *painfully* into that long night with the knowledge that we did right by ourselves, the game, the company and other players.

Folks just joining the community need to see what trouble threatens in the future before they make decisions about whether to spend money on this game.

I just sincerely hope that DE isnt banking on the influx of xmas noobs - to make up for the exodus of the veterans disgusted by the Riven mods and lack of endgame content

Could very well be "planned obsolescence" to remove us old grinders and farmers, and replace us with brand new (ignorant) plat and Prime Access buying new players for more profits and less developmental effort

[notlamprey]

1 hour ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

I just sincerely hope that DE isnt banking on the influx of xmas noobs - to make up for the exodus of the veterans disgusted by the Riven mods and lack of endgame content

Could very well be "planned obsolescence" to remove us old grinders and farmers, and replace us with brand new (ignorant) plat and Prime Access buying new players for more profits and less developmental effort

That is one potential way this situation might run in the long term.

DE may have determined that "powerful earners" (mainly veterans) are detrimental to their income, and are now making changes aimed not at pleasing us, but instead at attracting more lucrative customers.

As evidence, you might introduce the latest Dev Workshop post. It was full of arguments that sounded well-meaning enough, but clearly don't line up with what we got. Surely no one could seriously believe that Riven Mods would accomplish the goals described in that post, and that's when I start to wonder.