[Spoiler] A thank you to DE for making riven mods so awesome

[DesuTronic]

Finally something awesome for the veterans of the game to do. I have been bored of oneshotting lvl 200 enemies with my formad Tigris prime so much that I have purposefully started rebuilding older weaker weapons with fun mechanics. And now with the added riven mods it can be even more motivating to start revisiting older weapons.

Up to this point in the game there was nothing left for me to. Now when I log in and do my sorties I am actually exited to see what my new mod will be and what new weapon it wants me to explore. These mods offer a huge variety of possibilities with stats that can be rerolled depending on what you want out of the weapon. Brilliant! With many layers of RNG I can actually play the game and try to tweak my build as best as possible instead of coming up with a super op build instantly and not having to worry about it anymore. Some of the numbers on these mods are insanely fun. It will make me want to do builds for weapons I never thought of doing such builds for. Granted some of the numbers sometimes are pretty bad but that's why the reroll option exists.

And it's not all about the weapons either, the challenges required to unlock the mods are super fun to do. It's like the sortie requirements but with a lot more variety. Though I have to say so far what I have seen they are pretty easy. I would like to see the challenge difficulty impacting how good starts the mod will have. IF someone gets a challenge they don't like they could also reroll that but the power of the mod would also change accordingly. I'd personally like a mod to have for example "Complete a nightmare missions solo melee only with all dragon keys equipped without dieing". Such a challenge would be actually challenging and wouldn't be something I complete instantly on my first try like the ones I have gotten so far (find a few caches with a sentinel present / get kills without using ammo pickups / get 3 head shots with 1 aimglide) Those challenges where so easy I wondered why they even existed. Since also one of the challenges was: "complete solo INT with lvl 30+ enemies and hobbled key equipped without dieing" (which I still beat easily with no effort) I know that the challenges can be made very specifically and very uniquely. Which is why I am asking for more challenges with difficulties that I would actually have to try a few times to succeed.

PS. This isn't just me alone thinking this. I have a group of friends I play with and at this point it has degraded to the point where we log into the game just for a few hours to complete the sortie, then do all 3 trials and "cya tomorrow". We've tried to combat the boredom by doing the trial missions with like 8 hydroids for some tentacle fun and even then it wasn't challenging anymore. We spend the entire time while doing the trials and sortie talking about how the new mods are cool "but wish they where a bit more challenging" or "wanna switch your Buzlok mod for my Penta mod, I've wanted to try a full status build on the Buzlok". These new mods actually made us exited again about playing the game again and trying to uncover more of these awesome mods.

[Xrkr]

3 minutes ago, DesuTronic said:

Finally something awesome for the veterans of the game to do. I have been bored of oneshotting lvl 200 enemies with my formad Tigris prime so much that I have purposefully started rebuilding older weaker weapons with fun mechanics. And now with the added riven mods it can be even more motivating to start revisiting older weapons.

Up to this point in the game there was nothing left for me to. Now when I log in and do my sorties I am actually exited to see what my new mod will be and what new weapon it wants me to explore. These mods offer a huge variety of possibilities with stats that can be rerolled depending on what you want out of the weapon. Brilliant! With many layers of RNG I can actually play the game and try to tweak my build as best as possible instead of coming up with a super op build instantly and not having to worry about it anymore. Some of the numbers on these mods are insanely fun. It will make me want to do builds for weapons I never thought of doing such builds for. Granted some of the numbers sometimes are pretty bad but that's why the reroll option exists.

And it's not all about the weapons either, the challenges required to unlock the mods are super fun to do. It's like the sortie requirements but with a lot more variety. Though I have to say so far what I have seen they are pretty easy. I would like to see the challenge difficulty impacting how good starts the mod will have. IF someone gets a challenge they don't like they could also reroll that but the power of the mod would also change accordingly. I'd personally like a mod to have for example "Complete a nightmare missions solo melee only with all dragon keys equipped without dieing". Such a challenge would be actually challenging and wouldn't be something I complete instantly on my first try like the ones I have gotten so far (find a few caches with a sentinel present / get kills without using ammo pickups / get 3 head shots with 1 aimglide) Those challenges where so easy I wondered why they even existed. Since also one of the challenges was: "complete solo INT with lvl 30+ enemies and hobbled key equipped without dieing" (which I still beat easily with no effort) I know that the challenges can be made very specifically and very uniquely. Which is why I am asking for more challenges with difficulties that I would actually have to try a few times to succeed.

PS. This isn't just me alone thinking this. I have a group of friends I play with and at this point it has degraded to the point where we log into the game just for a few hours to complete the sortie, then do all 3 trials and "cya tomorrow". We've tried to combat the boredom by doing the trial missions with like 8 hydroids for some tentacle fun and even then it wasn't challenging anymore. We spend the entire time while doing the trials and sortie talking about how the new mods are cool "but wish they where a bit more challenging" or "wanna switch your Buzlok mod for my Penta mod, I've wanted to try a full status build on the Buzlok". These new mods actually made us exited again about playing the game again and trying to uncover more of these awesome mods.

Glad you're enjoying this system. The highlighted statement assumes one is guaranteed to get a riven mod upon sortie completion. My last couple of days: Log in, do sortie, get endo, log out. Sound familiar?

[tbeest]

It does have a nice implication for lesser used weapons. But in a few weeks I can see any "end-game" build requiring you to have a Riven mod with "these exact stats" which you'll never get. Combine that with the increasing cost of rerolling and you yourself have some insane RNG.

Maybe those layers of RNG are fun to you but for me, I just can't even

[DesuTronic]

1 minute ago, Xrkr said:

Glad you're enjoying this system. The highlighted statement assumes one is guaranteed to get a riven mod upon sortie completion. My last couple of days: Log in, do sortie, get endo, log out. Sound familiar?

Obviously they aren't guaranteed, but I don't need a new one every day.

[Kimimoto]

Why not just add new mods for lesser tier weapons, or just buff the weapons themselves? These mods are broken IMO and shouldn't be in the game.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Kimimoto

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, tbeest said:

It does have a nice implication for lesser used weapons. But in a few weeks I can see any "end-game" build requiring you to have a Riven mod with "these exact stats" which you'll never get. Combine that with the increasing cost of rerolling and you yourself have some insane RNG.

Maybe those layers of RNG are fun to you but for me, I just can't even

All content in the game except infinite scaling to levels past being rewarding can be done with a Braton without riven mods.

[tbeest]

7 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

All content in the game except infinite scaling to levels past being rewarding can be done with a Braton without riven mods.

I know. And I try not to get too carried away. But I hope you can see that those few extra percentages do seem rather nice to a lot of people. And when I see I am missing out on some mods... It just annoys me.

I do not need more damage on my Dread. But when I see someone that got a critC + Damage + atk speed - impact for that weapon I feel like I'm missing out. And I guess that goes for many more.

Edited November 13, 2016 by tbeest

[artemisfortune]

9 minutes ago, tbeest said:

I know. And I try not to get too carried away. But I hope you can see that those few extra percentages do seem rather nice to a lot of people. And when I see I am missing out on some mods... It just annoys me.

I do not need more damage on my Dread. But when I see someone that got a critC + Damage + atk speed - impact for that weapon I feel like I'm missing out. And I guess that goes for many more.

Then it falls on you, as a player, not the game. Your need for more power, to have all the exclusives, etc. is your own entitlement, your own problem, not DE's, not other players, not the game. Should the game cater to you because you can't have every super power ability in the game? Should the game only focus on making sure everyone can achieve a final end game all on the same level? That's not how it works. That's not how real life works. It's horribly imposed entitlement as the player and is an awful reason to want to change how a new system works, because you can't have it all to yourself.

Edited November 13, 2016 by JSharpie

[DesuTronic]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

Then it falls on you, as a player, not the game. Your need for more power, to have all the exclusives, etc. is your own entitlement, your own problem, not DE's, not other players, not the game. Should the game cater to you because you can't have every super power ability in the game? Should the game only focus on making sure everyone can achieve a final end game all on the same level? That's not how it works. That's not how real life works. It's horribly imposed entitlement as the player and is an awful reason to want to change how a new system works, because you can't have it all to yourself.

Beautifully said

[tbeest]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

Then it falls on you, as a player, not the game. Your need for more power, to have all the exclusives, etc. is your own entitlement, your own problem, not DE's, not other players, not the game. Should the game cater to you because you can't have every super power ability in the game? Should the game only focus on making sure everyone can achieve a final end game all on the same level? That's not how it works. That's not how real life works. It's horribly imposed entitlement as the player and is an awful reason to want to change how a new system works, because you can't have it all to yourself.

As I said, I know. I am not entitled to such a mod.

But this GAME isn't real life. And DE has thus far made sure everyone can get nearly anything apart from certain primes. Which is pretty fair. These Riven mods, however, feel unfair on a whole different level. Only given to those with extreme luck or extreme amounts of Platinum. If that's the direction DE wishes to take their game in, I won't be able to stop them and I'll probably still continue to play their game. I haven't checked with anyone but I'm sure there'll be others who feel alike.

[DesuTronic]

Just now, tbeest said:

These Riven mods, however, feel unfair on a whole different level. Only given to those with extreme luck or extreme amounts of Platinum.

Sounds nothing like arcane energize or legendary cores. Nope not at all, no RNG involved in that whatsoever.

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, tbeest said:

As I said, I know. I am not entitled to such a mod.

But this GAME isn't real life. And DE has thus far made sure everyone can get nearly anything apart from certain primes. Which is pretty fair. These Riven mods, however, feel unfair on a whole different level. Only given to those with extreme luck or extreme amounts of Platinum. If that's the direction DE wishes to take their game in, I won't be able to stop them and I'll probably still continue to play their game. I haven't checked with anyone but I'm sure there'll be others who feel alike.

But you aren't giving the platinum to DE, you're giving them to players. You're choosing to pay what the player you're buying from wants. Again, that's on the buyer, not the seller, not DE. The riven mods aren't unfair, you don't need them to do any of the content of the game, even the infinitely scaling survival/interception/defense/excavation can be done easily without them for a long time, it'll just allow you to maybe go a little bit longer but past the level of being rewarding. Take the Simulor mod for example. It doesn't increase the speed of the weapon, just the damage. It already one shots most enemies, and it'll allow you to oneshot slightly stronger enemies, but your frames level of durability is the same, and the weapon's fire rate is largely the same, so it doesn't actually matter.

[PraetorGix]

19 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Then it falls on you, as a player, not the game. Your need for more power, to have all the exclusives, etc. is your own entitlement, your own problem, not DE's, not other players, not the game. Should the game cater to you because you can't have every super power ability in the game? Should the game only focus on making sure everyone can achieve a final end game all on the same level? That's not how it works. That's not how real life works. It's horribly imposed entitlement as the player and is an awful reason to want to change how a new system works, because you can't have it all to yourself.

LOL. Sure, the game must not change to suit his entitlement, but it sure is nice that it changed to suit yours isn't it? And the most pathetic of it all is that you think you are so wise in your statement but you can't see you want the exact samething the other guy wants. If all the content in the game can be done with a Braton and new mods are useless except to cater to the player's entitlement for power, then what the he*k are you happy about? You had a point when you tried to say RNG is only a probkem when you care about it, but your way of rationalizing it? Very poor.

Edit: and none of these comments even address the real problem: these things can be used in PVP. That is straight up P2W.

Edited November 14, 2016 by PraetorGix

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, PraetorGix said:

LOL. Sure, the game must not change to suit his entitlement, but it sure is nice that it changed to suit yours isn't it? And the most pathetic of it all is that you think you are so wise in your statement but you can't see you want the exact samething the other guy wants. If all the content in the game can be done with a Braton and new mods are useless except to cater to the player's entitlement for power, then what the he*k are you happy about? You had a point when you tried to say RNG is only a probkem when you care about it, but your way of rationalizing it? Very poor.

Cool cool.

It's a video game. In the end I don't care. In the end it's a game I find enjoyment in it's core gameplay. If that changes, I'll quit playing it until I find enjoyment in it again. I'm happy with what I have, and I don't bother myself with the negative possibilities, especially when they're this far-fetched and wholly based on a players need to be the very best in the game and having everything.

[tbeest]

1 minute ago, DesuTronic said:

Sounds nothing like arcane energize or legendary cores. Nope not at all, no RNG involved in that whatsoever.

For every Arcane Energize there seem to be plenty of EV trinities to replace it nor does it change any stats. And one doesn't require a Legendary Core to max out a mod. 

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

But you aren't giving the platinum to DE, you're giving them to players. You're choosing to pay what the player you're buying from wants. Again, that's on the buyer, not the seller, not DE. The riven mods aren't unfair, you don't need them to do any of the content of the game, even the infinitely scaling survival/interception/defense/excavation can be done easily without them for a long time, it'll just allow you to maybe go a little bit longer but past the level of being rewarding. Take the Simulor mod for example. It doesn't increase the speed of the weapon, just the damage. It already one shots most enemies, and it'll allow you to oneshot slightly stronger enemies, but your frames level of durability is the same, and the weapon's fire rate is largely the same, so it doesn't actually matter.

At that point you've already given your money to DE. If you have the money. Also there isn't "a Simulor mod". There are a lot. All with different benefits and negatives. The odds of even getting the mod with the right stats for the weapon you want is nigh to none.

[DesuTronic]

Just now, tbeest said:

For every Arcane Energize there seem to be plenty of EV trinities to replace it nor does it change any stats. And one doesn't require a Legendary Core to max out a mod. 

There isn't a trin when playing solo and I was replying to what you said about getting lucky or having platinum to get what you want.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, tbeest said:

At that point you've already given your money to DE. If you have the money. Also there isn't "a Simulor mod". There are a lot. All with different benefits and negatives. The odds of even getting the mod with the right stats for the weapon you want is nigh to none.

Yes there is. I've seen one.

Someone gave their money to DE, yes. If a player decides to blow it all on one mod to increase the already ludicrous stats of one weapon because he thinks it needs to be even stronger for whatever reason, that's fine. That's on the player, not the seller, not DE (as I've said since the whole "RIVEN MODS ARE THE START OF WARFRAME'S FALL" debacle started) so the responsibility rests solely with the player.

[tbeest]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

Yes there is. I've seen one.

Someone gave their money to DE, yes. If a player decides to blow it all on one mod to increase the already ludicrous stats of one weapon because he thinks it needs to be even stronger for whatever reason, that's fine. That's on the player, not the seller, not DE (as I've said since the whole "RIVEN MODS ARE THE START OF WARFRAME'S FALL" debacle started) so the responsibility rests solely with the player.

There are a lot of Simulor mods all with different stats, not just one. That was what I tried to say there.

I couldn't care less about a player giving money to DE. The fact that these useful Riven mods seem to be locked for anyone who doesn't have copious amounts of luck or money is what makes mad.

[xRufus7x]

3 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Yes there is. I've seen one.

Someone gave their money to DE, yes. If a player decides to blow it all on one mod to increase the already ludicrous stats of one weapon because he thinks it needs to be even stronger for whatever reason, that's fine. That's on the player, not the seller, not DE (as I've said since the whole "RIVEN MODS ARE THE START OF WARFRAME'S FALL" debacle started) so the responsibility rests solely with the player.

Man, if I had a plat for every time in the last three years that someone had said something new was going to be the fall of Warframe, I would have enough to buy Riven mods to my hearts content.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, tbeest said:

There are a lot of Simulor mods all with different stats, not just one. That was what I tried to say there.

I couldn't care less about a player giving money to DE. The fact that these useful Riven mods seem to be locked for anyone who doesn't have copious amounts of luck or money is what makes mad.

Useful, but not necessary. Most of them don't even seem to fit nicely in many builds, forcing you to have an empty mod slot even with 8 forma. You're mad over something silly, like a stat boost that makes capable weapons more or less the same, just able to go slightly farther, and it is slightly. Do you think having every Riven mod you could desire with desired stats will change your gameplay? Change how easy the game is for you? What will it accomplish? That you can kill one enemy slightly faster than the next guy? Is that what infuriates you so? That if you won't have these mods you can't kill as fast as some random player?

[tbeest]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

Useful, but not necessary. Most of them don't even seem to fit nicely in many builds, forcing you to have an empty mod slot even with 8 forma. You're mad over something silly, like a stat boost that makes capable weapons more or less the same, just able to go slightly farther, and it is slightly. Do you think having every Riven mod you could desire with desired stats will change your gameplay? Change how easy the game is for you? What will it accomplish? That you can kill one enemy slightly faster than the next guy? Is that what infuriates you so? That if you won't have these mods you can't kill as fast as some random player?

A small stat change of 200% damage does seem rather negligible to me indeed. I do like killing enemies faster than the guy who's running next to me. And when did this discussion change in about what I want instead of how broken these ffing mods are and how they will ruin modding? Probably at the start, somewhere. These mods are even worse than Primed whatever. Yes. I care about their trivial stats and would like as much damage so I can kill more enemies. And the views on modding videos suggest that other people do so as well. 

[EvilChaosKnight]

4 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Useful, but not necessary.

Exactly. This is sort of system for old farts like me who have basically beaten Warframe as far as content goes. Now I have something to actually want to hunt in the game. Sure I won't be getting them every day because Sortie RNG but it's a nice motivator for me to come back every day to try and get something new. Rather than log in > login reward > sigh > close game.

Sure, raids were supposed to be like this but eh, they rely too much on puzzles which I don't enjoy and require at least 3 other people available and willing to tag along. Riven stuff is a lot more solo-friendly.

[Zavenosk]

Riven mods would definitely be a lot more great if they were not locked behind three consecutive layers of RNG.

[DesuTronic]

1 minute ago, Zezakh said:

Riven mods would definitely be a lot more great if they were not locked behind three consecutive layers of RNG.

Unlike getting prime parts is? Getting lucky to get relics, getting lucky to get the specific prime part.

[tbeest]

2 minutes ago, DesuTronic said:

Unlike getting prime parts is? Getting lucky to get relics, getting lucky to get the specific prime part.

That's 2. Also you can try to get relics more often (not once a day) and you get to choose from up to several rewards if you run with friends/pubs. Also the amount of Traces required to make one radiant doesn't increase every time

Edited November 14, 2016 by tbeest