[Spoiler] A thank you to DE for making riven mods so awesome

[Volinus7]

35 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Yes exactly. This is not made for you. It's made for player like me who have nothing left to do in this game. If you just play on the star map then  you don't need the mods, they are very much a waste of your time. The mods are for player like me, someone who solos lvl 300 every week and goes over 140 daily because they simply have nothing better to do when they play this game other than stack plat needlessly.

That is the definition of "burned out". Your attention shifted from fun gameplay to loots with high numbers.

You play a game because it is fun or because it keeps stuffing more and more powerful equipments into your mouth endlessly? 

"player like me who have nothing left to do in this game" you should take a break and play other games instead.

[bubbabenali]

Some of them are a bit too awesome...

[Xzorn]

39 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

That is the definition of "burned out". Your attention shifted from fun gameplay to loots with high numbers.

You play a game because it is fun or because it keeps stuffing more and more powerful equipments into your mouth endlessly? 

"player like me who have nothing left to do in this game" you should take a break and play other games instead.

 

"Burned out" is when you've exhausted all emotional or physical acuity. which means I prolly wouldn't care enough to comment in the first place.

I find my own ways to entertain myself with this game and by "nothing left to do"  I specifically mean nothing fun left to do. The damage I deal is irrelevant. It's the distance I go and the effort I put into the builds and ideas I come up with. A similar aspect of gaming used to be called "High Score".

I ran three 2 hours survivals today for no other reason than I wanted to. I've had to change my interest for this game because like many I cared about items far too much and if you do that in this game then you most definitely will burn out because DE is not a big enough company to keep up. Blizzard can't even keep up.

That is exactly why I've posted multiple times that the Riven mod system is good. It's a long term progression solution.

 

[Volinus7]

Wait wut!? I can't really keep up with your logics.

6 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I find my own ways to entertain myself with this game and by "nothing left to do"  I specifically mean nothing fun left to do. The damage I deal is irrelevant. It's the distance I go and the effort I put into the builds and ideas I come up with. A similar aspect of gaming used to be called "High Score".

You meant "nothing fun left to do" but you still have fun doing endurance high score run and making new builds. You have fun in a game with nothing fun??? 

13 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

I ran three 2 hours survivals today for no other reason than I wanted to. I've had to change my interest for this game because like many I cared about items far too much and if you do that in this game then you most definitely will burn out because DE is not a big enough company to keep up. Blizzard can't even keep up.

You implied that items addiction is no good it will burn players out. 

17 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

That is exactly why I've posted multiple times that the Riven mod system is good. It's a long term progression solution.

But then you said that items are the solution????

[Thrymm]

The key negative to the Riven mods is their means of acquisition.

You can trade, ruining the surprise for yourself and defeating a majority of the neat new concept.

Or you can play sorties.  Not different sorties, not reworked sorties.  The same gimmicky garbage that we had all along that people where increasingly starting to not play because they simply aren't fun, nevermind the rewards.

The fact that sortie drop tables are the only place to get these things doesn't mean a means of progression to me at all.  It means it's probably time to take a break from this game and do other things until DE puts them elsewhere.  I'll probably play some for awhile, but frankly getting my first Riven for the Hind(with bad stats to boot) and then realizing that any chance of finding the special purple shiny for myself in the game meant playing one of the few things I've completely avoided because I intensely dislike it....yeah, I don't see myself hanging around for that kind of nonsense.

What a pity.

[venon23]

 "And now with the added riven mods it can be even more motivating to start revisiting older weapons. "

 I love this idea special because this mods can fix bad weapons  this great  
the only problem i have with this system is it can also makes things worse  like making simulors dps skyrocket   tonkors and other top end weapons that are already good better
and the other problem with that is u never will have the same exact mod then ur friend  and while he have dmg multyshot and other cool sht u get only bad stuff like recoil zoom
this system could be fixed
Making it only work for bad weapons or weapons that need a buff
Making a rerole and transmution rework so transmution can als do somthing in game other then fire a bullet too the sky at night in hope of killing a falcon

[DesuTronic]

4 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

The key negative to the Riven mods is their means of acquisition.

You can trade, ruining the surprise for yourself and defeating a majority of the neat new concept.

Or you can play sorties.  Not different sorties, not reworked sorties.  The same gimmicky garbage that we had all along that people where increasingly starting to not play because they simply aren't fun, nevermind the rewards.

The fact that sortie drop tables are the only place to get these things doesn't mean a means of progression to me at all.  It means it's probably time to take a break from this game and do other things until DE puts them elsewhere.  I'll probably play some for awhile, but frankly getting my first Riven for the Hind(with bad stats to boot) and then realizing that any chance of finding the special purple shiny for myself in the game meant playing one of the few things I've completely avoided because I intensely dislike it....yeah, I don't see myself hanging around for that kind of nonsense.

What a pity.

And that's where the problem is. You wont play when you have to do sorties to get rewards. I won't play when I can't do something like sorties to get rewards. It's impossible to please both sides and the whole point of this thread was to point out that finally there is one thing among the hundreds of things that cater to the people who like the gimmicky long term solutions.

You have thousands of hours worth of content you can do without having to touch sorties. Someone like me who has already done all of that thousands of hours worth of content finally has something new to do.

[Volinus7]

Riven mods don't cure obsoleted underwhelming weapons.

OP weapons are OP because they're either AOE or have high base dmg[shotguns duh] which means they can survive in endless scaling longer without 4CPs by their good ammo efficiency.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Volinus7

[DesuTronic]

4 minutes ago, venon23 said:

the only problem i have with this system is it can also makes things worse  like making simulors dps skyrocket   tonkors and other top end weapons that are already good better
and the other problem with that is u never will have the same exact mod then ur friend  and while he have dmg multyshot and other cool sht u get only bad stuff like recoil zoom

There already are mods in the game that only a select few people have and there is no way to obtain them. I have a friend who has primed chamber, I can never do as much damage as he can without having that mod.

What I'm trying to say is that such a system of some people having better stuff already exist in the game and always has.

[Xzorn]

8 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Wait wut!? I can't really keep up with your logics.

You meant "nothing fun left to do" but you still have fun doing endurance high score run and making new builds. You have fun in a game with nothing fun??? 

You implied that items addiction is no good it will burn players out. 

But then you said that items are the solution????

It's 5 am. I might be having trouble.

There's nothing else fun in the game for me beside theory crafting and trying out new builds which I cannot try against anything Sorties level or lower in majority of cases. This is because I easily blow through previous forms of progression.  I also enjoy seeing how far each build can go, I find some really crazy stuff. Like Zenistar possibly being the strongest damage output weapon in the game.

With the exception of Riven mods, if you only care about attaining items in this game then you will burn out quickly because majority are quite easy to attain.

Riven mods provide long term progression that's previously been vacant from this game. I'm like 75% finished with the entire Focus system because they obviously did not anticipate the level of grinding that would be going on for those Focus points. A system that was designed to last a long time but wouldn't have, hence the daily cap which just prolonged an inevitable wall you hit when you've fully complete it. The Riven mods have no wall, even when you have perfect roll mods you can trade extras if you want. Unless you just don't like plat or your friends, there's always a decent reason to keep working on them. No other item in warframe has had that.

[weirdichigo]

1 hour ago, Volinus7 said:

That is the definition of "burned out". Your attention shifted from fun gameplay to loots with high numbers.

You play a game because it is fun or because it keeps stuffing more and more powerful equipments into your mouth endlessly? 

"player like me who have nothing left to do in this game" you should take a break and play other games instead.

Perfectly put.

[Thrymm]

9 minutes ago, DesuTronic said:

And that's where the problem is. You wont play when you have to do sorties to get rewards. I won't play when I can't do something like sorties to get rewards. It's impossible to please both sides and the whole point of this thread was to point out that finally there is one thing among the hundreds of things that cater to the people who like the gimmicky long term solutions.

You have thousands of hours worth of content you can do without having to touch sorties. Someone like me who has already done all of that thousands of hours worth of content finally has something new to do.

First off, I'm about three thousand hours into this, so lets drop the "it's for me with everything done and that's why it's not for you" mindset that I'm seeing here.  It's a false premise, plain and simple.

See, I'm done with everything else here too.  I've seen it all, done it all.  That's why I have no interest in seeing it again with 50 energy, or all eximi, or whatever.  Wasn't fun when it came out, isn't fun now.  I'm at the same point as you---something new is a big deal.  I'm also at the same point with these Riven mods---I'd like to explore what they can do and use them.

Where our interests differ, however, is that they plunked them down in content you where looking for an excuse to play.  They put them in content(existing content, I might add) that gives me an excuse to play other games.

See, that's where the problem ties in.  I've already done sorties.  I know I don't like them.  I've known it for long enough that I haven't done one in months.  Putting the new stuff behind the crap I don't like didn't give progression or any of that nonsense, what it did is put the new stuff I want to explore behind a wall of the old stuff I'm no longer interested in so no, there IS NOT thousands of hours of other content to handle in that regard.

There is actually an incredibly easy way to please both sides, actually.  Make them come from more sources.  Bam, done.  Just that simple.  Put them in the new tileset somewhere.  Put them in as a miniscule endless reward, put them in for a whole butt-ton of ducats, etc, etc.  You can still do sorties, I can still play content that I prefer, everybody wins.  Hell, they retooled the entire void relic system(twice now, to bring back endless missions to the fold) to ensure that people could play the kind of content they want in order to get what they want out of the game.  To point out that sortie only loot is a bad idea....not really a stretch, this is a concept DE already understands.

[marelooke]

2 hours ago, Xzorn said:

 

It's actually kinda the opposite. The Riven mod system is smart.

Currently this game has an economic system where nothing is lost but can be traded which inevitably means a diminishing value in both price and play time. Riven mods have an attached play time that is ever increasing as you attempt to progress through by getting better rolls. Eventually the re-roll costs may become too much and you  junk the mod. This means that a percentage of the mods leave the economy which helps to preserve their value.

The Riven mod system will be the most long lasting progression to date because of this. Even players who have perfect rolls will have reason to continue to invest time in the system as their play time can be effectively traded to other players.

Players are just being impatient with something that was obviously designed to go the distance and be very time consuming.

 

It's so smart that Blizzard had to take it out of Diablo 3 to keep the game from outright dying, and that 's a game built around randomly generated loot with a community that accepts such.

Warframe just did the inverse of Blizzard by introducing the AH first and then the random stats, the net result is the same.

To top it off many players here (most?) will be far less accepting of this type of egregious RNG, especially knowing (as also stated by DE), that many WF players are collectors and completionists, random stats aren't going to go over well with that demographic.

Edited November 14, 2016 by marelooke

[DesuTronic]

6 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

See, I'm done with everything else here too.  I've seen it all, done it all.  That's why I have no interest in seeing it again with 50 energy, or all eximi, or whatever.  Wasn't fun when it came out, isn't fun now.  I'm at the same point as you---something new is a big deal.  I'm also at the same point with these Riven mods---I'd like to explore what they can do and use them.

Where our interests differ, however, is that they plunked them down in content you where looking for an excuse to play.  They put them in content(existing content, I might add) that gives me an excuse to play other games.

See, that's where the problem ties in.  I've already done sorties.  I know I don't like them.  I've known it for long enough that I haven't done one in months.  Putting the new stuff behind the crap I don't like didn't give progression or any of that nonsense, what it did is put the new stuff I want to explore behind a wall of the old stuff I'm no longer interested in so no, there IS NOT thousands of hours of other content to handle in that regard.

Let me quote yourself to yourself

6 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

It's a false premise, plain and simple.

You wrote 3 paragraphs about how

6 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

Wasn't fun when it came out, isn't fun now.

Sorties always where fun and still are. You don't get to decide what is fun and what is not. (I know I don't get to decide it either but stop pushing this narrative that sorties aren't fun. Fun is subjective.) And now with the new mods I have an actual motive behind wanting to do sorties instead of doing them just for fun. I can have fun and get rewards at the same time.

Edited November 14, 2016 by DesuTronic

[Xzorn]

5 minutes ago, marelooke said:

It's so smart that Blizzard had to take it out of Diablo 3 to keep the game from dying, and that 's a game built around randomly generated loot with a community that accepts such.

 

Diablo3 was a cash grab.

Why do you think they refused to fix it until they could get more money from you with an expansion?

I had no problems with Diablo3, then again I made $ 945 the first month and then stopped playing until a friend bought me the expansion because I refused to pay any money into an obvious gimmick when I wasn't going to get any more out of it.

They also didn't take anything out. They gave you class specific stats and set drops then added Ancients and dangle a carrot in front of you every season with grossly overpowered new set bonuses than make previous sets pointless to use. Nothing has really changed except that now the game is 100% not worth playing outside of a new season because once you've got your 90% Ancient rolls there's nothing left to do because you can't trade anything.

 

 

[marelooke]

11 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

Diablo3 was a cash grab.

Why do you think they refused to fix it until they could get more money from you with an expansion?

I had no problems with Diablo3, then again I made $ 945 the first month and then stopped playing until a friend bought me the expansion because I refused to pay any money into an obvious gimmick when I wasn't going to get any more out of it.

They also didn't take anything out. They gave you class specific stats and set drops then added Ancients and dangle a carrot in front of you every season with grossly overpowered new set bonuses than make previous sets pointless to use. Nothing has really changed except that now the game is 100% not worth playing outside of a new season because once you've got your 90% Ancient rolls there's nothing left to do because you can't trade anything.

 

 

Riven mods certainly feel like a nudge towards the market by DE.

Note that I didn't play Diablo 3 exactly because of the egregious RNG and AH and only got it on a sale after that latter got ditched and the former got somewhat toned down. Even then I haven't spent that much time on it.

Also if you enjoy trading in games as anything else than a means to an end dare I suggest EVE Online? That game has a *real* in-game economy, trading there is actually very much fun. For pretty much every other game it's either just a way for people to get what they can't themselves at, usually, rock bottom prices (eg. WoW) or to milk the playerbase through allowing trading with Premium items/currency (every single Asian grinder ever)

EDIT: original post felt a bit too confrontative. Toned down and explained point better.

Edited November 14, 2016 by marelooke

[Thrymm]

Just now, DesuTronic said:

Let me quote yourself to yourself

You wrote 3 paragraphs about how

Sorties always where fun and still are. You don't get to decide what is fun and what is not. (I know I don't get to decide it either but stop pushing this narrative that sorties aren't fun. Fun is subjective.) And now with the new mods I have an actual motive behind wanting to do sorties instead of doing them just for fun. I can have fun and get rewards at the same time.

Er...actually, I DO get to decide what is fun.  You know, for me.  Because, you know, it's subjective.  Same as you get to decide it for you, and not for me.  That....seems pretty self explanatory, to be honest.  My sincerest apologies if you though that me stating my opinion somehow suggested that you had to think the same way. 

See, the direction this game just went is that the "end game" items just got put solely place I don't want to go.  As an "end game" player yourself, I'm sure you understand the discouragement that could bring.

So, I'm faced with a few choices. 

1.  Suck it up and play stuff that I don't enjoy.  A lot of people go this direction after being that heavily invested.

2.  Quit.  It is a game after all, there is little reason to play one of those if it isn't enjoyable anymore.

3.  Whine on the forum and hope like hell the right set of eyes sees my dissenting opinion,  because while it is solely my opinion, the notion of alternative drop methods is popular with enough people that it already warranted a rework of the entirety of the prime part acquisition.

Pretty easy to figure out which way I went with it for now.

[Hydroxate]

I love the riven mods, albeit that some of the higher dps weapons get even more dps but if they're a high tiered weapon they'll extend maybe a few waves more in endless missions. My first riven mod was for one of my favourite weapons, the Glaxion, which isn't a great weapon but now I can bring it into higher missions! I can imagine that weapons like Tonkor got riven mods too as if they didn't players would complain that they were left out also. The revival of non-meta weapons with these mods is something I'm really happy about!

I don't mind the RNG stats, I believe putting them maybe in the new endless void missions after 10th wave or paying around 10k Kuva to Teshin after TWW completion would allow people a more set method of acquiring them that isn't directly easy. 

I love the idea proposed that the unlocking challenge difficulty affects the stats of the mod, that is a rewarding system for the work needed. 

Looking forward to the Damage 3.0 rework and armor scaling to see how it will interact with these mods.

[Xzorn]

5 minutes ago, marelooke said:

So you're basically saying that Riven mods are a cash grab?

Also if you enjoy trading in games as anything else than a means to an end dare I suggest EVE Online? That game has a *real* in-game economy. For pretty much every other game it's either just a way for people to get what they can't themselves at, usually, rock bottom prices (eg. WoW) or to milk the playerbase through allowing trading with Premium items/currency (every single Asian grinder ever)

 

The best game economy will forever be UO.

DE is not keeping me from progressing through basic content with gear requirements due to grossly overpowered enemies. They're not taking a cut of plat with trades and they're not charging me money just to play. So No.

You're only comparing RNG with whatever else had RNG and they're not the same situation.

[TaylorsContraction]

I like riven mods. Most posts are just salt and envy from where I'm sitting. My first riven mod is for the synapse, a weapon I don't even own. But who cares, what's great is that I can in time get my hands on mods for the weapons I actually like and take them slightly further. A very personalized arsenal if you will.

Now they do have some issues, mainly no indication of rerolls allowing some scamming to take place via trading, hopefully that'll be resolved.

[chuckdm]

12 hours ago, JSharpie said:

It's a video game.

I have no input on the OP's topic but I just wanted to drop in and say this right here is a major problem on every single video game forum everywhere and needs to stop, immediately and forever.

Yes, everyone here is aware that it's "just a game" as I'm fairly certain that every single person playing Warframe hasn't forgotten that, IRL, none of them are actual, literal space ninjas.  Even that guy with the truly amazing Wukong cosplay at Tennocon probably doesn't wake up every morning wondering why Ordis isn't responding to his voice commands.

And that has absolutely, positively nothing to do with anything, including but not limited to game mechanics, game balance, or yes, literally even the price of tea in china.

So stop trying to remind everyone "it's just a game."  Sure it is.  It's a game we LOVE and CARE about and we'd prefer NOT to see it go down in flames over questionable design decisions.  Personally, I don't know if Riven mods are a good or bad idea.  I've been on craptastic internet this weekend and barely got the update downloaded a couple hours ago, and now I have to sleep, so I've yet to try one.  What I do know is that "it's just a game" is something that should NEVER, EVER be uttered on any video game forum ever.  It serves to trivialize the topic, trivialize the poster, and nothing else.  Neither of those is a good thing to do.  Ever.  So, for the sake of everyone having useful, productive discussions about games everywhere, please stop it.

[k05h]

14 hours ago, DesuTronic said:

Finally something awesome for the veterans of the game to do. I have been bored of oneshotting lvl 200 enemies with my formad Tigris prime

I really enjoy your sense of humor. Keep it going!

Edited November 14, 2016 by k05h

[Volinus7]

12 hours ago, Xzorn said:

The Riven mods have no wall, even when you have perfect roll mods you can trade extras if you want.

Ugh... You contradicted yourself again.

Riven mods have walls they're called perfect roll, BiS or best in slot. When you hit the wall you trade extra away... it's the same as prime parts, you trade away parts you already have.

[Xzorn]

6 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Ugh... You contradicted yourself again.

Riven mods have walls they're called perfect roll, BiS or best in slot. When you hit the wall you trade extra away... it's the same as prime parts, you trade away parts you already have.

 

The key difference is you trade extras away for good value.  Part of the reason prime parts have a rotation is to emulate their value. If they always dropped they would be worthless. ie Orthos, Braton, Burston. Baro also serves a purpose in given prime parts value as well by removing them from the economy similar to Riven mods.

Prime parts have to be time restricted in addition to Baro consuming them to give them any prolonged value at all. These mods are likely here forever but behind a wait wall,  layers of RNG and they also consume themselves. It's a similar concept but Riven mods will most definitely last longer by comparison because of their RNG nature.

Me saying they don't have a wall is more incorrect than contradictory. They have a theoretical wall but it's so distant that it's not really worth considering. The standards for what qualifies a certain price range will inevitably increase but the value of those 100% perfect rolls will remain in high value due to the probabilities and/or time involved.

I personally don't even farm prime sets anymore unless they're vaulted or new release. They've become far too common and they're over-farmed by other players.  I farm void fissure to keep my forma and ducat reserve up. If I get some sets while I'm doing that then I end up holding them for months because they have little value unless I game the system..

The wait wall is really the only thing I find kinda obnoxious but I just dislike wait walls in general. I have a feeling Riven will pop up other places given time, Baro perhaps.

[Volinus7]

8 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

In summary it's a whale hunting tool.