Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[ChuckMaverick]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

K, I never see Ash anymore so I was just curious. 

Isn't that the point?

If you can see an Ash player then they're clearly not using Smokescreen properly, at least now that they can no longer just press-4-to-win.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 minute ago, ChuckMaverick said:

at least now that they can no longer just press-4-to-win.

True, now edge lords have to press 4 twice and shake the cursor around the screen. I truly hate the new blade storm. But that's IMO. 

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

1 hour ago, Roxxarus said:

Now, I haven't really Ash for Bladestorm in a while, but I think CFE Angry is talking about when Bladestorm is actually activated (aka you're slashing and hacking), not when you're in the scanning phase. I'm not sure if the Smoke Screen continues or is paused during the slashy-slash time, but if not then I think that's what he's talking about.

That is what I mean, there have been way too many times where I would cast smokescreen and use Bladestorm only for it to run out during bladestorm's long animations and I get annihilated, since enemies seem to instantly know where ash casted bladestorm

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Yeah! 97 pages! 3 more to go! DO EEEETTT!

[Nazrethim]

We need an actual rework. I don't care if it takes another year of waiting. Hopefully, a Stance ultimate that fix all issues with the frame once and for all. Proposals are abundant, we just need confirmation.

Or hell, if DE is okay with it, let players do a Tennogen-esque "debug build" with our rework suggestions coded in a playable way, and then see which one would work best.

[ChuckMaverick]

Bladestorm Rework:

Toggled ability, drains 5 energy per second.

Ash summons two shadow clones who copy Ash's melee attacks.

Casting Bladestorm grants 4 seconds of invulnerability.

Using Teleport during Bladestorm resets the invulnerability duration.

[Nazrethim]

14 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Bladestorm Rework:

Toggled ability, drains 5 energy per second.

Ash summons two shadow clones who copy Ash's melee attacks.

Casting Bladestorm grants 4 seconds of invulnerability.

Using Teleport during Bladestorm resets the invulnerability duration.

How does it work in Conclave? How do you toggle that off?

[ChuckMaverick]

3 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

How does it work in Conclave? How do you toggle that off?

No idea, I don't play Conclave (yet).

[Nazrethim]

3 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

No idea, I don't play Conclave (yet).

Quick ideas rarely solve the problem. That's what DE did and now look at where we are. You must meditate your suggestions and take every aspect into account, from unmodded power effects and corrupted/primed builds to conclave balancing and ability synergy.

[ChuckMaverick]

Just now, Nazrethim said:

Quick ideas rarely solve the problem. That's what DE did and now look at where we are. You must meditate your suggestions and take every aspect into account, from unmodded power effects and corrupted/primed builds to conclave balancing and ability synergy.

Indeed, but no single player will be able to spot every problem with a potential solution, that's why we post them here and invite others to discuss them as well.

[Nazrethim]

Just now, ChuckMaverick said:

Indeed, but no single player will be able to spot every problem with a potential solution, that's why we post them here and invite others to discuss them as well.

Ash rework:

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 10s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

 

Shuriken:

Tap: Ash throws a Shuriken in a straight line, dealing heavy Puncture damage, impaling enemies on walls. Has 3.0 punch trough.

Hold: After holding for 1s, Ash throws a barrage of smaller, seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, dealing Slash damage.

Seeking Shuriken:

 -Tap: removes 100% enemy Armor and ricochets on a surface it can't pass trough up to 3 times.

 -Hold: removes 50% enemy Armor.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies inside the cloud are blinded and open for Finisher attacks.

Tap: cast at Ash's feet.

Hold (1s): cast at the surface Ash is aiming (20m range max)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud are also gain invisibility.

Teleport:

Tap: Ash teleports to the target location, stunning and opening nearby enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 25 energy.

Hold: Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 15 energy (10 if invisible) per enemy.

Fatal Teleport:

 -Refunds 50% of the cost on next kill.

 -Tap: Ash will Finish the nearest enemy instantly, promting a second radial stagger with opening.

 -Hold: Increase Finisher damage 200%

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks Ash will rapidly teleport between enemies assassinating small groups.

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase COmbo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Only marks on radar. Has 10m marking range and falls off when enemy is 20m away. Lasts only 5s..

Shuriken: Tap deals 70 damage, Hold deals 25 damage. None of them inflict Bleed.

Smoke Screen: Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility.

Teleport: Hold function disabled

Blade Storm: Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

35 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Blade Storm: Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit..

Sounds like bladestorm that is currently in conclave right now, but with a slash proc, that might be kinda op

Edited March 19, 2017 by (XB1)CFE Angry

[Nazrethim]

13 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Sounds like bladestorm that is currently in conclave right now, but with a slash proc, that might be kinda op

Eh... no. Bladestorm in conclave is very different. This would be more like hysteria or exalted blade. Only instead of damage resistance, ranged spammable waves and oneshot damage on hit, this one gives agility and bleed, making ash deadly elusive. More finesse than brute force

[(PSN)ShuhanX]

12 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Ash rework:

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 10s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

 

Shuriken:

Tap: Ash throws a Shuriken in a straight line, dealing heavy Puncture damage, impaling enemies on walls. Has 3.0 punch trough.

Hold: After holding for 1s, Ash throws a barrage of smaller, seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, dealing Slash damage.

Seeking Shuriken:

 -Tap: removes 100% enemy Armor and ricochets on a surface it can't pass trough up to 3 times.

 -Hold: removes 50% enemy Armor.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies inside the cloud are blinded and open for Finisher attacks.

Tap: cast at Ash's feet.

Hold (1s): cast at the surface Ash is aiming (20m range max)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud are also gain invisibility.

Teleport:

Tap: Ash teleports to the target location, stunning and opening nearby enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 25 energy.

Hold: Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 15 energy (10 if invisible) per enemy.

Fatal Teleport:

 -Refunds 50% of the cost on next kill.

 -Tap: Ash will Finish the nearest enemy instantly, promting a second radial stagger with opening.

 -Hold: Increase Finisher damage 200%

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks Ash will rapidly teleport between enemies assassinating small groups.

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase COmbo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Only marks on radar. Has 10m marking range and falls off when enemy is 20m away. Lasts only 5s..

Shuriken: Tap deals 70 damage, Hold deals 25 damage. None of them inflict Bleed.

Smoke Screen: Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility.

Teleport: Hold function disabled

Blade Storm: Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

Love it! Love everything about it. This is perfect. DE really needs to give Ash a true rework of this caliber! 

[Nazrethim]

4 hours ago, (PS4)ShuhanX said:

Love it! Love everything about it. This is perfect. DE really needs to give Ash a true rework of this caliber! 

Thank you. Hopefully they will give us one a year after the revisit was deployed (which is in a few months) or when they get to do Ash Prime Ballas trailer (since telebuggin inside ramparts/crates/otherobjects or spinning the camera around like a maniac don't seem like good ideas for a trailer hahaha).

For now we can only throw ideas, wait and hope.

My advice for any suggestion:

-Before posting try to pin point all issues with a given frame and aim to solve as much as possible

-Take into account base power values (all at 100%). The frame should be able to work without Corrupted/Primed mods.

-Take into account Conclave balancing, try to make an ability that can be easily transalted to PvP, it will be less work for DE and less confusing for players doing the jump from pve to pvp.

-If you change how an ability works, remember to take Augments into account and offer rework suggestions that would work with the new ability.

-If possible, make suggestions that DE could cobble together with already existing mechanics.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

19 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Ash rework:

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 10s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

 

Shuriken:

Tap: Ash throws a Shuriken in a straight line, dealing heavy Puncture damage, impaling enemies on walls. Has 3.0 punch trough.

Hold: After holding for 1s, Ash throws a barrage of smaller, seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, dealing Slash damage.

Seeking Shuriken:

 -Tap: removes 100% enemy Armor and ricochets on a surface it can't pass trough up to 3 times.

 -Hold: removes 50% enemy Armor.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies inside the cloud are blinded and open for Finisher attacks.

Tap: cast at Ash's feet.

Hold (1s): cast at the surface Ash is aiming (20m range max)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud are also gain invisibility.

Teleport:

Tap: Ash teleports to the target location, stunning and opening nearby enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 25 energy.

Hold: Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 15 energy (10 if invisible) per enemy.

Fatal Teleport:

 -Refunds 50% of the cost on next kill.

 -Tap: Ash will Finish the nearest enemy instantly, promting a second radial stagger with opening.

 -Hold: Increase Finisher damage 200%

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks Ash will rapidly teleport between enemies assassinating small groups.

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase COmbo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Only marks on radar. Has 10m marking range and falls off when enemy is 20m away. Lasts only 5s..

Shuriken: Tap deals 70 damage, Hold deals 25 damage. None of them inflict Bleed.

Smoke Screen: Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility.

Teleport: Hold function disabled

Blade Storm: Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

Hey..DE!!!??

Do this, and then we can all move on.

-oh and take as long as u need! But let just get this done. I'm sure @Nazrethim can give you any details if u need them. 

Thank you 

[Nazrethim]

56 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Hey..DE!!!??

Do this, and then we can all move on.

-oh and take as long as u need! But let just get this done. I'm sure @Nazrethim can give you any details if u need them. 

Thank you 

If DE released a tennogen-like debug build I would code the whole thing myself for free. As long as Ash get's it's rightful rework xD

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

9 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

If DE released a tennogen-like debug build I would code the whole thing myself for free. As long as Ash get's it's rightful rework xD

 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

21 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Ash rework:

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 10s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

 

Shuriken:

Tap: Ash throws a Shuriken in a straight line, dealing heavy Puncture damage, impaling enemies on walls. Has 3.0 punch trough.

Hold: After holding for 1s, Ash throws a barrage of smaller, seeking shurikens to all marked enemies, dealing Slash damage.

Seeking Shuriken:

 -Tap: removes 100% enemy Armor and ricochets on a surface it can't pass trough up to 3 times.

 -Hold: removes 50% enemy Armor.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Enemies inside the cloud are blinded and open for Finisher attacks.

Tap: cast at Ash's feet.

Hold (1s): cast at the surface Ash is aiming (20m range max)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud are also gain invisibility.

Teleport:

Tap: Ash teleports to the target location, stunning and opening nearby enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 25 energy.

Hold: Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 15 energy (10 if invisible) per enemy.

Fatal Teleport:

 -Refunds 50% of the cost on next kill.

 -Tap: Ash will Finish the nearest enemy instantly, promting a second radial stagger with opening.

 -Hold: Increase Finisher damage 200%

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks Ash will rapidly teleport between enemies assassinating small groups.

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase COmbo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Only marks on radar. Has 10m marking range and falls off when enemy is 20m away. Lasts only 5s..

Shuriken: Tap deals 70 damage, Hold deals 25 damage. None of them inflict Bleed.

Smoke Screen: Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility.

Teleport: Hold function disabled

Blade Storm: Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

I'm going to go down the list here.

Passive: is that in addition to his bleed effect passives or just a replacer?

- If replacer, I say no.

- If addition, could be good, an extra damage boost in a very ninja way.

But I still, truly and wholly, don't like the marking system because it is so incredibly slow. The fast-paced nature of this game and the erratic movements/actions of your squad-mates (particularly pugs) makes this mechanic very very inefficient. Everyone is trying to kill everything, all the time, everywhere and it makes it hard to just be standing there and looking through a viewfinder (of sorts) in order to initialize an ability, then subsequently activate it (even if it also works via aim-glide). A 2-stage move like that, just doesn't work in this game, especially with a character like Ash who is based in melee combat/procs and not explosive (world-ending) nukes. In a solo setting, this is great, but the majority of this game is co-op and this passive would still be highly underused throughout most of the content.

Shuriken: Very similar to an idea I had on my thread. + 1 for that!

- Mine vs Yours. I didn't use the smaller stars, but I see why you did. I gave mine a hold function, as well, but my ability change came with a slight ramp-up mechanic similar to how the soma shoots faster and faster until it reaches top speed and then you could kind of staccato the trigger to shoot in bursts while maintaining the fire rate but conserving some ammo (in this case energy) and controlling your shots better... and I also have it using the Hikou throwing style animation to make for more fluidity rather than his standard frisbee style toss that has too much of a delay between throws. I also have "Seeking Shuriken" as an innate quality, calling for a new augment mod to be made. Now after seeing your idea, I would have that be part of only the "tap functionality" (which with my Hikou mechanic, you can utilize faster). So In my case you could very quickly and cheaply throw out your "priming stars" (still 2 at a time) which will negate the enemy armor, then finish them off with the relentless stream of slightly less powerful versions. As far as your other qualities like the ricochet, punch-through and pinning... sign me up. Again those qualities would be part of the tap mechanic only as to not be ridiculously OP (or at least in some people's eyes). My version doesn't require marking, but with your (ideally, additional) passive it could boost the damage of the ability, significantly. My version you just aim as normal, the same as you would with the soma... both burst fire/spray and pray.

Smoke Screen: Again, basically my version and so again, +1 for that!

- That being said, I still have some thoughts. I would just keep the cloud duration/invisibility duration the same and increase its max by 1 or 2 seconds, just because I love Ash ;P (screw Loki pundits!). And as always, Ash must enter the cloud to become invisible, but he can now use it in transit, so all is fine there. You also forgot about the part of the ability where he can drop multiple (up to 4 at once, since everything WF seems to be in groups of 4), in order to form a makeshift wall of smoke and blanket a larger area, either for offense or defense. I also like the choking/coughing aspect more than the blinding aspect when it comes to how it effects the enemies (choking kinda encompasses both because the natural reaction to choking is closing one's eyes) due to it being more of an incapacitation and less of a minor irritation. Allies could enter the clouds to take refuge/drop target lock, but would not gain invisibility without the augment.

Teleport: I still think my 2-fold ability change is better, especially when considering a stance style ultimate.

- My version: Takes the old style Blade Storm and breaks it down into 2 teleport based versions, one where you can shoot and only use quick melee strikes and the other which is melee only. I did this because it gives the players what they wanted, a way to actively control: how, where, when and who, BS gets used on, while retaining and adding to the original bonuses/perks of the the ability and all done at speed as to inflict the maximum amount of damage needed while avoiding as much incoming damage (this is the part where the skill comes in [dodging and weaving]) as possible.

Blade Storm: My least thought out concept, but in terms of this mish-mash of our ideas, it seems perfect.

So, simply, it's just like a Mario super-star, except no invincibility. My BS would grant increased attack/movement/parkour speed, higher dodge chance and lower casting costs for all abilities, while active... and yes, Ash would exclusively use his wrist blades for all melee for the duration or until cancelled. I love your animation change of an increased release of smoke from his vents and I have stolen it, along with your set of combos ;D (just pretend like I listed that here). Your roll, side step and back spring idea is clever/great, but wouldn't be necessary for this version because my teleport changes basically give you the ability to act like a manic (but better).

Some Notes:

- Conclave. As you know, I could care less. But if you could figure out a way to make the above abilities/changes work, that would be awesome.

- Augments. There would need to be some new augments made for a couple of the abilities, but I have those list in my thread.

- Linked my thread below for frame of reference to what I mean when I talk about "my ability changes/thread."

Other than that, GG everyone for keeping this topic going and not giving up (like I'm sure the DEvs want). Let's break that 100 page marker, peeps... we can do it! Let's make Ash great again!

 

Edited March 19, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[Nazrethim]

45 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

I'm going to go down the list here.

Passive: is that in addition to his bleed effect passives or just a replacer?

- If replacer, I say no.

- If addition, could be good, an extra damage boost in a very ninja way.

But I still, truly and wholly, don't like the marking system because it is so incredibly slow. The fast-paced nature of this game and the erratic movements/actions of your squad-mates (particularly pugs) makes this mechanic very very inefficient. Everyone is trying to kill everything, all the time, everywhere and it makes it hard to just be standing there and looking through a viewfinder (of sorts) in order to initialize an ability, then subsequently activate it (even if it also works via aim-glide). A 2-stage move like that, just doesn't work in this game, especially with a character like Ash who is based in melee combat/procs and not explosive (world-ending) nukes. In a solo setting, this is great, but the majority of this game is co-op and this passive would still be highly underused throughout most of the content.

It's a replacer. Current aiming is slow only if you go for 3 marks on every target, this one is a single mark, and it would probably be a less pinpoint accuracy affair. It's supposed to be a quick marking for some bonus damage+utility. The idea is for Ash to not be stuck on regular melee combat which is fully ground based, but rather killing enemies then jumping away at high speed towards the next kills.

The passive is focused on moving around and using glide and latch, or priming enemies for the kill from stealth.

Making it an addition seems good to me, I tell you that.

Also, something I forgot to mention (among other things) is that abilities don't consume the marks.

45 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Shuriken: Very similar to an idea I had on my thread. + 1 for that!

- Mine vs Yours. I didn't use the smaller stars, but I see why you did. I gave mine a hold function, as well, but my ability change came with a slight ramp-up mechanic similar to how the soma shoots faster and faster until it reaches top speed and then you could kind of staccato the trigger to shoot in bursts while maintaining the fire rate but conserving some ammo (in this case energy) and controlling your shots better... and I also have it using the Hikou throwing style animation to make for more fluidity rather than his standard frisbee style toss that has too much of a delay between throws. I also have "Seeking Shuriken" as an innate quality, calling for a new augment mod to be made. Now after seeing your idea, I would have that be part of only the "tap functionality" (which with my Hikou mechanic, you can utilize faster). So In my case you could very quickly and cheaply throw out your "priming stars" (still 2 at a time) which will negate the enemy armor, then finish them off with the relentless stream of slightly less powerful versions. As far as your other qualities like the ricochet, punch-through and pinning... sign me up. Again those qualities would be part of the tap mechanic only as to not be ridiculously OP (or at least in some people's eyes). My version doesn't require marking, but with your (ideally, additional) passive it could boost the damage of the ability, significantly. My version you just aim as normal, the same as you would with the soma... both burst fire/spray and pray.

The problem with yours is that it requires holding the key to keep throwing shurikens, let me know how your finger feels after a while. I choose a 1s hold for different take on the ability without requiring the player to hold the finger in the same place for more than 2s.

45 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Smoke Screen: Again, basically my version and so again, +1 for that!

- That being said, I still have some thoughts. I would just keep the cloud duration/invisibility duration the same and increase its max by 1 or 2 seconds, just because I love Ash ;P (screw Loki pundits!). And as always, Ash must enter the cloud to become invisible, but he can now use it in transit, so all is fine there. You also forgot about the part of the ability where he can drop multiple (up to 4 at once, since everything WF seems to be in groups of 4), in order to form a makeshift wall of smoke and blanket a larger area, either for offense or defense. I also like the choking/coughing aspect more than the blinding aspect when it comes to how it effects the enemies (choking kinda encompasses both because the natural reaction to choking is closing one's eyes) due to it being more of an incapacitation and less of a minor irritation. Allies could enter the clouds to take refuge/drop target lock, but would not gain invisibility without the augment.

I'm not entirely sure. I consider, for the sake of balance, that it's either multiple smoke screens or finisher opener smoke screen. The blind is just the explanation in terms of mechanics, thematically it would be a choke.

45 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Teleport: I still think my 2-fold ability change is better, especially when considering a stance style ultimate.

- My version: Takes the old style Blade Storm and breaks it down into 2 teleport based versions, one where you can shoot and only use quick melee strikes and the other which is melee only. I did this because it gives the players what they wanted, a way to actively control: how, where, when and who, BS gets used on, while retaining and adding to the original bonuses/perks of the the ability and all done at speed as to inflict the maximum amount of damage needed while avoiding as much incoming damage (this is the part where the skill comes in [dodging and weaving]) as possible.

Yeah, I like your Smoke dash, DE can actually implement it in the same way as the Operator Void Charge (or whatever it's called). My idea is more of a functional change to current teleport.

45 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Blade Storm: My least thought out concept, but in terms of this mish-mash of our ideas, it seems perfect.

So, simply, it's just like a Mario super-star, except no invincibility. My BS would grant increased attack/movement/parkour speed, higher dodge chance and lower casting costs for all abilities, while active... and yes, Ash would exclusively use his wrist blades for all melee for the duration or until cancelled. I love your animation change of an increased release of smoke from his vents and I have stolen it, along with your set of combos ;D (just pretend like I listed that here). Your roll, side step and back spring idea is clever/great, but wouldn't be necessary for this version because my teleport changes basically give you the ability to act like a manic (but better).

Well, that's because the short manic dashes are for covering short distances, while Teleport remains a mid-long range displacement.

45 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Some Notes:

- Conclave. As you know, I could care less. But if you could figure out a way to make the above abilities/changes work, that would be awesome.

Well, the point is that, regardless if you care or not, DE will have to make balance changes to his abilities, so having a bit of knowledge about Conclave and making something easily transaltable to the mode would save DE's time and resources and reduce the chance of the frame ending up stuck with bad abilities.

45 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Other than that, GG everyone for keeping this topic going and not giving up (like I'm sure the DEvs want). Let's break that 100 page marker, peeps... we can do it! Let's make Ash great again!

 

We will never surrender!

[Akstiletto]

Thank you for making ash's 4th usless.

[AntoninDvorak]

just wanted to contribute to reach 100 pages. We need a better ash rework!!!

[(PSN)ShuhanX]

8 hours ago, AntoninDvorak said:

just wanted to contribute to reach 100 pages. We need a better ash rework!!!

Honestly, will it honestly make a difference though? Even when it reaches 100+ pages, it doesn't really garuntee that DE will actually pay attention to it. At this point, I'm not expecting anything at all from them, regarding Ash. At least as far as this mess of a "revisit" goes. At best, I see them doing nothing more than giving negligible changes, like allowing us to trade chat while BS is active, or something along those lines. 

[Skaleek]

I wonder if they'll release the metrics about ash played before and after their rework. I expect more than a 90% decrease personally.

[AntoninDvorak]

2 hours ago, (PS4)ShuhanX said:

Honestly, will it honestly make a difference though? Even when it reaches 100+ pages, it doesn't really garuntee that DE will actually pay attention to it. At this point, I'm not expecting anything at all from them, regarding Ash. At least as far as this mess of a "revisit" goes. At best, I see them doing nothing more than giving negligible changes, like allowing us to trade chat while BS is active, or something along those lines. 

yeah, instead of fixing ash, they nerf nyx, lol! but it's worth trying don't ya think? at least we won't lose anything