Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Somi_xD]

18 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

  Reveal hidden contents

*A grineer ship, a platoon of grineer*

Ballas: War, is like a  wildfire, it starts with a spark.

*a Shuriken out of nowhere kills two lancers*

Ballas:it consumes the trees one by one.

*Ash teleports to 3 consecutive enemies killing them*

*A grineer activates the alarm*

Ballas: Until the smoke darkens the sky

*Ash casts a Smoke Screen on an aproaching platoon and pulls out his wristblades*

Ballas: And the flames consume the forest

*Ash teleports inside the cloud*

*Shrouded inside the cloud, multiple instances of Ash can be perceived executing the platoon with the wristblades*

*beat*

Ballas: And when the fire burns out...

*Mutilated corpses fall to the ground at the same time with a sickening sound as the smoke begins to clear*

Ballas:...and the smoke clears...

*the smoke clears, revealing Ash Prime standing with his blades pulled out and dripping blood*

Ballas: ...what remains...

*black screen*

Ballas: ...is Ash

Also, my rework isn't entirely mine either, originally it was really bad and clunky. It's thanks to other Ash fans who gave feedback and suggestions that it became good.

Ah, nice suggestion, only saw it now - i see we both think in very similar ways about Ash - some points are good, others seemed abit too overdone.

I think, if we would mix up our suggestion, the outcome could be really great.
I'll post something in your suggestion :D - - - be prepaired.

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

52 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

DE said that they would get to do trailers for previosuly released frames, but they will take time. Look, Hydroid trailer hasn't been released yet!

Patience Tenno. In the meantime you could try to write a script about how the trailer would be. I did it once about 9 months ago, the description of what was happening was good but the Ballas speech I wrote was a bit sh*tty. It compared Ash to a wildfire (more fitting for ember). Here:

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*A grineer ship, a platoon of grineer*

Ballas: War, is like a  wildfire, it starts with a spark.

*a Shuriken out of nowhere kills two lancers*

Ballas:it consumes the trees one by one.

*Ash teleports to 3 consecutive enemies killing them*

*A grineer activates the alarm*

Ballas: Until the smoke darkens the sky

*Ash casts a Smoke Screen on an aproaching platoon and pulls out his wristblades*

Ballas: And the flames consume the forest

*Ash teleports inside the cloud*

*Shrouded inside the cloud, multiple instances of Ash can be perceived executing the platoon with the wristblades*

*beat*

Ballas: And when the fire burns out...

*Mutilated corpses fall to the ground at the same time with a sickening sound as the smoke begins to clear*

Ballas:...and the smoke clears...

*the smoke clears, revealing Ash Prime standing with his blades pulled out and dripping blood*

Ballas: ...what remains...

*black screen*

Ballas: ...is Ash

Also, my rework isn't entirely mine either, originally it was really bad and clunky. It's thanks to other Ash fans who gave feedback and suggestions that it became good.

I imagined it clearly the narrative fits good too

[(PSN)Vexx757]

The number one thing I can`t stand is when people were saying "I don`t like ash because he steals kills" by that logic you should complain about ember doing an exterminate in a team when enemies are low level when logic says you can do it by you`re self and its quicker, banshee on a defence mission using 4 when people want to have fun in the mission or people spamming saryn`s 1 and 2 but no one complains, why? selective outrage and that's not fair or right.

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

The number one thing I can`t stand is when people were saying "I don`t like ash because he steals kills" by that logic you should complain about ember doing an exterminate in a team when enemies are low level when logic says you can do it by you`re self and its quicker, banshee on a defence mission using 4 when people want to have fun in the mission or people spamming saryn`s 1 and 2 but no one complains, why? selective outrage and that's not fair or right.

But ash got nerfed cause of it 

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

2 hours ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

But ash got nerfed cause of it 

And for good reason too, there's a huge difference between clearing rooms on low levels with WOF, and clearing rooms on low-high levels with old bladestorm.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[Nazrethim]

On 10/7/2017 at 11:55 PM, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

And for good reason too, there's a huge difference between clearing rooms on low levels with WOF, and clearing rooms on low-high levels with old bladestorm.

Except that what needed a huge nerf wasn't the ability, was Efficiency. And unlike WoF, BS didn't allow the player to do anything else while active, which was a hindrance if you tagged a resistant enemy like an eximi, which in turn needed the basic tactical thinking of not being an ability spammer.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

4 hours ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

But ash got nerfed cause of it 

By that logic ember, banchee and saryn need to be nerfed as well but then I guess you disagree with that, don`t you? 

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)Vexx757

[(PSN)Vexx757]

Anyway, this is where my solution comes in....

Things wrong with Ash`s bladestorm

 

·         He can`t use bs in a team because other players kill the marked target e.g ember, mirage with simulor, banshee etc.

·         The animation is shown for every enemy marked which means bs is way longer than before.

·         Activating bs is slow because of the two stages.

·         When using bs without a melee weapon is even slower to use before the change.

·         It`s harder to activate bs on a controller than on PC.

·         One enemy mark = 1 sec 30 enemies marked = 30 secs which means bs is too long.

·         Weapons can kill better than him e.g tonkor (which for a damage dealing warframe is VERY BAD)

·         You can`t kill in a AOE anymore (can`t kill enemies behind walls)

The corrected way to fix bladestorm is to keep the old bs but with small changes;

 

·         Enemies that are red can be killed by players

·         Make bs be able to kill as many enemies that are within his radius

·         If players don’t want to watch animation press 4 again to come out of it and the clones will continue killing while Ash kills other thing but you can`t use bs again until all marked enemies are dead. So the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not. Also if a teammate is downed ash can jump out of bs and revive the downed teammate. HATE TO SAY THIS but if you want to jump out of bs will cost you 50 energy (this is if you have no efficiency on him)

·     

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)Vexx757

[(PSN)Vexx757]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Also here is someone else that feels the same way about ember.

 

 

2

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)Vexx757

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

On 10/8/2017 at 12:16 AM, Nazrethim said:

Except that what needed a huge nerf wasn't the ability, was Efficiency. And unlike WoF, BS didn't allow the player to do anything else while active, which was a hindrance if you tagged a resistant enemy like an eximi, which in turn needed the basic tactical thinking of not being an ability spammer.

Just played as ash again for the first time in a while ...... I’m not gonna lie I could see what de was trying to do with bladestorm but we got the result we have now instead ...... imma see how it goes at high level tho cause this was like normal levels 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Hey Nazzy,

I'm back! I recently watched this video on ign and immediately saw the potential for Ash in some of the aspects of the movements/attacks of the protagonist. Check it out, I bet you can spot them, too (especially in terms of my own Ash rework post/ideas).

 

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Hey Nazzy,

I'm back! I recently watched this video on ign and immediately saw the potential for Ash in some of the aspects of the movements/attacks of the protagonist. Check it out, I bet you can spot them, too (especially in terms of my own Ash rework post/ideas).

 

I saw the movement aspects but the attacks not so much ...... but I see the potential all the same 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

1 minute ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

I saw the movement aspects but the attacks not so much ...... but I see the potential all the same 

Awesome! 

I know Nazzy would see, because he read my thread and in it I have a 2 part teleport rework that enables Ash to go through his enemies and those it doesn't kill instantly will be staggered, so it gives a cc potential as well (if your fast enough).

[Nazrethim]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Hey Nazzy,

I'm back! I recently watched this video on ign and immediately saw the potential for Ash in some of the aspects of the movements/attacks of the protagonist. Check it out, I bet you can spot them, too (especially in terms of my own Ash rework post/ideas).

 

I'm glad to see you back. Welcome.

Yes, there is indeed some stuff to pull from there.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

4 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I'm glad to see you back. Welcome.

Yes, there is indeed some stuff to pull from there.

Yea man,

I just can't get away from it... every time I put my Ash on in the arsenal, I'm just bummed out cause he looks so damn cool, but is so very useless/gimped by the lack of a proper skill set... makes me not want to play at all.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[Nazrethim]

1 minute ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Yea man,

I just can't get away from it... every time I put my Ash on in the arsenal, I'm just bummed out cause he looks so damn cool, but is so very useless/gimped by the lack of a proper skill set... makes me not want to play at all.

I have reduced my playtime too. I stick because I really like the game and the frame. Honestly aside from some QoL changes, Ash mostly needs the 4th adressed. Would be nice if the replacement also works with all the other abilities to a degree (though I haven't hit that yet, as in my rework thread Shuriken and BS don't really have any interaction)

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

I have to un-archive my rework.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

That's why I prefer the ultimate in the style of the Mario Super Star (no invincibility) or Shinobi Ninjitsu: something that enhances the innate qualities and also speed of all the other moves so as to make Ash seem more like a storm as he moves around and through a bunch of enemies, seemingly all at once (not literally, but like how a lightning storm plays with your senses).

In normal situations, Ash only needs his first 3 powers but when called for, he can up the intensity of those powers by activating his fourth, which by lore standards would be because he is the most martially trained/oriented of all the frames. That's why, in vague terms it would be the Ash frame using all of its power (like the star ship enterprise diverting all energy to the shields). I guess put another way, it would be like an extreme/super form of channeling.

I would advocate for a 4th like that ... it would be a good card to pull out when you need it 

shiruken would either become bigger or have like 6 shooting out 

smoke screen turns into smoke cloud which is affected by range 

teleport would gain the current marking system of bladestorm 

And movement would be like smoke dashes or short teleports also affected by range 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

24 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I have reduced my playtime too. I stick because I really like the game and the frame. Honestly aside from some QoL changes, Ash mostly needs the 4th adressed. Would be nice if the replacement also works with all the other abilities to a degree (though I haven't hit that yet, as in my rework thread Shuriken and BS don't really have any interaction)

That's why I prefer the ultimate in the style of the Mario Super Star (no invincibility) or Shinobi Ninjitsu: something that enhances the innate qualities and also speed of all the other moves so as to make Ash seem more like a storm as he moves around and through a bunch of enemies, seemingly all at once (not literally, but like how a lightning storm plays with your senses).

In normal situations, Ash only needs his first 3 powers but when called for, he can up the intensity of those powers by activating his fourth, which by lore standards would be because he is the most martially trained/oriented of all the frames. That's why, in vague terms it would be the Ash frame using all of its power (like the star ship enterprise diverting all energy to the shields). I guess put another way, it would be like an extreme/super form of channeling that would lower the energy costs of all moves while enhancing them.

As far as interaction, with my rework for Shuriken (Hikou Prime throwing style), I think it should pin enemies to the ground (if you aim for the legs) as that was the main purpose for the ("bo" type or thin metal spike) shuriken and that should enhance some of Ash's attacks in some way. If you remember I have ash throwing a variety of different types of shuriken, not just the stars, but the knives and spikes too.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

I would advocate for a 4th like that ... it would be a good card to pull out when you need it 

shiruken would either become bigger or have like 6 shooting out 

smoke screen turns into smoke cloud which is affected by range 

teleport would gain the current marking system of bladestorm 

And movement would be like smoke dashes or short teleports also affected by range 

Pretty much. I haven't specified anything yet, because with those guidelines you can make it so the abilities are balanced and synergize and totally fit Ash's motif. He just needs to be the absolute best at what he already does best because otherwise he can't keep up with the other frames. He needs to be able to move, strike, avoid (rinse/repeat) like smokiest and ninja-iest warframe of them all. Those are his attributes: melee, invisibility, speed, critical strikes, bleed damage, small group/hard-target assassination.

When you want something retrieved, you send Loki. When you want something dead, you send Ash.

 

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Pretty much. I haven't specified anything yet, because with those guidelines you can make it so the abilities are balanced and synergize and totally fit Ash's motif. He just needs to be the absolute best at what he already does best because otherwise he can't keep up with the other frames. He needs to be able to move, strike, avoid (rinse/repeat) like smokiest and ninja-iest warframe of them all. Those are his attributes: melee, invisibility, speed, critical strikes, bleed damage, small group/hard-target assassination.

When you want something retrieved, you send Loki. When you want something dead, you send Ash.

 

Exactly how it should be 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

1 minute ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

Exactly how it should be 

These are some of the specific ideas I had (if you can access my post even though its archived). Some of them still hold true today, while others I have better iterations/updates for... but they all say the same thing (ASH NEEDS TO BE GANGSTER AGAIN!).

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

These are some of the specific ideas I had (if you can access my post even though its archived). Some of them still hold true today, while others I have better iterations/updates for... but they all say the same thing (ASH NEEDS TO BE GANGSTER AGAIN!).

I was actually looking for that post ... you must’ve archived it after a while 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Just now, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

I was actually looking for that post ... you must’ve archived it after a while 

nah, DE did. I guess it wasn't active enough.

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

Just now, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

nah, DE did. I guess it wasn't active enough.

Oh ok well if you can post the updated version of it