Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Shad0wWatcher]

14 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

I understand. But then they come up just 2 months later with Nidus, one of the best designed frames. 3 months later Limbo gets changed for good. Then Oberon is made viable. Then Hydroid is made viable. And Hydroid himself gets several on the fly hotfixes that correct design flaws the rework has. Ash took them nine months to give SS an easy QoL change, make BS garbage (despite Marking Mode being terrible been pointed out MONTHS in advance by players) and the unbroken silence about if they are going to fix the mess or not, really makes one go mad.

The revisited Ash for the wrong reasons. They did it to shut up the whiners who complained about Ash bladespamming everything and locking eximi alive in animations, and ignored the actual fans of the frame.

Yet you said it correct.

Regarding Ash there are seemingly two kinds of feedback: bring back press4towin, usually as world on bladestorm or "just let the clones do evr'thin", and people who understand that both old p42w and current are bad by design and we need something new, and tackle that with creative ideas. Both agree that his other abilities need a look too, but not exactly in which form.

My problem (I think) is that, while I give constructive feedback and point the correct flaws, I'm just going insane and becoming abrasive (mostly due to dealing with jerks who try to convince me BS isn't garbage because "with X super specific and expensive/verydififculttoget build BS works just fine!" which is another way of saying "I won't say this ability is sh*T because stacking multiple broken mechanics together makes it goodish").

I would have gone insane long ago if it wasn't for this:

  Reveal hidden contents

I'm one of the dancers :D

 

Yeah i never really understood that part either in terms of the quality of his revisit compared to what we then got with Nidus, Limbo, Oberon and then Hydroid, but then again...it did release almost directly after TWW, so...same thing again, "stress is a b*tch. But then also that shouldn't stop them from going back to look what still could be "fixed". As for your sanity, we all need our way to cope. Your way to cope just happens to be that...interesting video lol.

[(PSN)Lvl_Over_9000]

Remove the cut scene from blade storm all together  let  blade storm  be done in a area of proximity around ash  by his clones   allowing him mobility to be free. Rather then simply watching its extremely boring and just bad gameplay. Sure it looks cool but its really not effective  to be a player watching ash kill 15 targets. In the time which many enemies reposition and you find your self coming out of blade storm to look down a barrel of a heavy gunner or a bombard

A area of proximity blade storm done by his clones only would allow him to use his 1 and 2 to aid his clones in battle. Gives him excellent synergy 

 letting slash proc damage be by power strength

Proximity to be struck by a clone  when in blade storm  being affiniy radius  only 

number of clones power range  

And efficiecy being the drain  time for blade storm 

No effect by duration

 this set up will allow players to choose between  having perhaps 4 strong clones that can kill almost anything or  perhaps up to 10 clones that can  proc bleed on mutiplie targets but are not as strong  in there proc damage 

 Things concerning duration n efficiency would have to be decided I personally think a  slow drain   based of efficincy only is most effective in pleasing the spectrum of ashes tool kit not overpowering anything but also not taking away from althe ability 

 

But the cut scene has to go 

[(PSN)Lvl_Over_9000]

Remove the cut scene from blade storm all together  let  blade storm  be done in a area of proximity around ash  by his clones   allowing him mobility to be free. Rather then simply watching its extremely boring and just bad gameplay. Sure it looks cool but its really not effective  to be a player watching ash kill 15 targets. In the time which many enemies reposition and you find your self coming out of blade storm to look down a barrel of a heavy gunner or a bombard

A area of proximity blade storm done by his clones only would allow him to use his 1 and 2 to aid his clones in battle. Gives him excellent synergy 

 letting slash proc damage be by power strength

Proximity to be struck by a clone  when in blade storm  being affiniy radius  only 

number of clones power range  

And efficiecy being the drain  time for blade storm 

No effect by duration

 this set up will allow players to choose between  having perhaps 4 strong clones that can kill almost anything or  perhaps up to 10 clones that can  proc bleed on mutiplie targets but are not as strong  in there proc damage 

 Things concerning duration n efficiency would have to be decided I personally think a  slow drain   based of efficincy only is most effective in pleasing the spectrum of ashes tool kit not overpowering anything but also not taking away from althe ability 

 

But the cut scene has to go 

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

On 11/18/2017 at 12:06 PM, Nazrethim said:

Or, considering they took nine freaking months for the shody revisit what happened was that they just of half forgot the revisit because they were busy makking Nidus and the TWW or whatever, the art team showed up with the deluxe skin ready, and they just said "scr*w it!" and released it the way it is hoping that dangling a shiny skin would distract players. Of course, it didn't work once players sat to do the math and actually play with the thing.

I sooooo regret buying that skin after realizing I'd been had.....

[Nazrethim]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

I sooooo regret buying that skin after realizing I'd been had.....

Don't. The skin itself is amaizing, one of the best skins in the whole game. Why do you think the DEception worked so well and lasted so long?

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

Don't. The skin itself is amaizing, one of the best skins in the whole game. Why do you think the DEception worked so well and lasted so long?

The skin is amazing but the frame is garbage. Even in PoE that marking mechanic is just not cutting it. I can live with energy increases and cutscenes and crap synergy but that marking mechanic has to go..

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

The skin is amazing but the frame is garbage. Even in PoE that marking mechanic is just not cutting it. I can live with energy increases and cutscenes and crap synergy but that marking mechanic has to go..

 That isn't entirely true. The 4 is garbage, but the rest of the frame works really well. Sure, all of his abilities need to be looked at, but they work mostly fine. The problem was, and still is, the 4th ability. The first problems with it started pretty much when the game released in closed beta, it was a target by target assassination with 18 attacks (and it wasn't affected by combo counter). Then it was changed to incorporate the combo counter damage (and Steel Charge too, but that was a bug that eventually became officially a feature) and clones added to split the job and speed it up. And that's how it remained for a long time, it was well balanced really, Elite units like Eximi resisted it and got you stuck, so the intended way was to dispatch these high profile targets first (via teleport or other means) as an assassin would do, then clean up the rest of the enemy forces with Blade Storm. The cost was reasonable too, only broken by Efficiency, which has been broken since DE changed it from linear scaling to exponential scaling, so the problem wasn't actually BS but Effi.

Then the nerf came and came hard. The revisit balanced around efficiency, which means Blidn Rage builds became impossible, Max Efficiency required, they buffed the range trough the roof, which seems like a good thing but it isn't because it made Range stat absolutely pointless. Previously you could add range to have more reach (at risk of accidentally tagging an Eximi and getting stuck) or reduce range via Narrow Minded to have less reach but more control over what you Blade Storm. Nowadays it has so much range the stat has no effect in actual gameplay. The clones were kept but now they follow Ash whenever he multimarks (which doubles or triples the cost too!) and no longer assist, so it returned to closed beta Target-by-target assassination, which considering the game is a Horde game, makes no sense. BS right now is the worst version of the ability in the history of the game.

[(PSN)LeBlingKing]

Since this topic's release, 524 days have passed.

WE'VE GOTTEN NOTHING.

 

[Shad0wWatcher]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

Since this topic's release, 524 days have passed.

WE'VE GOTTEN NOTHING.

 

Holy crap it's been a year already?

[Nazrethim]

11 minutes ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Holy crap it's been a year already?

Year and a half.

The thread came before the actual revisit though.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Nazrethim

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LeBlingKing69 said:

Since this topic's release, 524 days have passed.

WE'VE GOTTEN NOTHING.

 

Because Ash is fine. 

At this point, of you don't like him you just need to play a different frame. He functions as designed. No response needed. 

They would probably quicker create a new frame than entertain any of these elaborate ninja reworks 

[Shad0wWatcher]

10 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Because Ash is fine. 

At this point, of you don't like him you just need to play a different frame. He functions as designed. No response needed. 

They would probably quicker create a new frame than entertain any of these elaborate ninja reworks 

Well sure but at least a response would be nice. An official statement or some form of acknowledgement from 1 of the devs would actually at the very least silence some of the people. Communication is important when making a Feedback thread.

[Hypernaut1]

31 minutes ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Well sure but at least a response would be nice. An official statement or some form of acknowledgement from 1 of the devs would actually at the very least silence some of the people. Communication is important when making a Feedback thread.

I agree. A response should be given by now, even a short one. I honestly do want some tweaks and QoL for Ash too, but I don't think he needs any kind of rework. 

From talking with Scott at tennocon 2017, he seemed very pleased with where Ash was at with no plans to look at him. The most he said was "you never know" or something like that to avoid completely dismissing questions. But he also said he was looking at Mag, and it's been months.. so maybe they're just busy. A frame like Ash is probably at the bottom of list of frames that needs to be looked at.

[SodapopKevin]

On 11/17/2017 at 6:14 PM, Shad0wWatcher said:

When you put it like that, it almost sounds like they released the deluxe skin with the revisit just to ease the pain.

One would think they should of taken the time to make Ash fun and amazing when releasing a deluxe skin, that way they would sell more of said skin.

[(PSN)Censooored]

Can't  believe   this thread isn't  dead lol

[Nazrethim]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Censooored said:

Can't  believe   this thread isn't  dead lol

This thread will die after DE fixes Ash. Or not considering the many different paths to do so, which means someone will always dislike whatever change comes.

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

15 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Because Ash is fine. 

At this point, of you don't like him you just need to play a different frame. He functions as designed. No response needed. 

They would probably quicker create a new frame than entertain any of these elaborate ninja reworks 

You ought to seek a career as a comedian buddy 

[Shad0wWatcher]

2 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

I agree. A response should be given by now, even a short one. I honestly do want some tweaks and QoL for Ash too, but I don't think he needs any kind of rework. 

From talking with Scott at tennocon 2017, he seemed very pleased with where Ash was at with no plans to look at him. The most he said was "you never know" or something like that to avoid completely dismissing questions. But he also said he was looking at Mag, and it's been months.. so maybe they're just busy. A frame like Ash is probably at the bottom of list of frames that needs to be looked at.

That's understandable i guess, they do seem to have plenty of stuff to do. And reworking/revisiting takes time, personal free time at that so i guess i can wait. I'm a patient man.

[Shad0wWatcher]

9 hours ago, SodapopKevin said:

One would think they should of taken the time to make Ash fun and amazing when releasing a deluxe skin, that way they would sell more of said skin.

Man...you have no idea of how correct you are, or maybe you do xD. 

[Shad0wWatcher]

23 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Year and a half.

The thread came before the actual revisit though.

Oh lol, but wait the one who set up the thread was [DE]Danielle, why would she make a feedback thread on Ash's revisit before the revisit xD

[Nazrethim]

29 minutes ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Oh lol, but wait the one who set up the thread was [DE]Danielle, why would she make a feedback thread on Ash's revisit before the revisit xD

Because they announced "Blade Storm rework" (note I didn't say "Ash rework") around January. Their original idea was WOrld on Blade Storm (toggle drain like WoF, but 3 clones stabbing people around while Ash did jacksquat or played normally, but we know what lazybums were gonna do). It was deemed overpowered by pretty much everyone from DE to intelligent players (idiots still liked it and still request that). Then the players realised DE was going to f**k it up and a panic "rework race" started with everyone posting ideas. One of the first was a marking mode. DE pretty much closed their eyes and picked the first thing. Then in June during a devstream or prime time (can't quite remember, but it was Rebb playing) they showcased the new and amaizing BS, which is what we currently have. Some players were amazed, savvy players pointed out it was going to s*ck because of the broken energy cost (Rebb was able to mark around 20 enemies for about 60 energy so she obviously had max efficiency) and slow as hell. Players were expecting DE to listen to feedback and fix the damn thing or scrap it and go another route. SScreen was already castable while moving as a onehanded action, hooray! This thread was created in response to that (which players wouldn't have the opportunity to actually play and test until much later) showcase, so players could give more feedback (to to lump together all the rework threads to prevent them from clogging the forum)

25 Nov, Update 19.1.0. The War Within: Ash Revisited. Exactly the same thing they showed in June. It's roughly nine months after the announcement.

Now compare that to what Limbo got, it was, for comparison, 3 months between the announcement of changes and the actual release. Same for Oberon. Hydroid got about a month and a half between announcement and release, and continued to get core fixes for about two weeks to make sure his abilities worked properly.

[Shad0wWatcher]

9 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Because they announced "Blade Storm rework" (note I didn't say "Ash rework") around January. Their original idea was WOrld on Blade Storm (toggle drain like WoF, but 3 clones stabbing people around while Ash did jacksquat or played normally, but we know what lazybums were gonna do). It was deemed overpowered by pretty much everyone from DE to intelligent players (idiots still liked it and still request that). Then the players realised DE was going to f**k it up and a panic "rework race" started with everyone posting ideas. One of the first was a marking mode. DE pretty much closed their eyes and picked the first thing. Then in June during a devstream or prime time (can't quite remember, but it was Rebb playing) they showcased the new and amaizing BS, which is what we currently have. Some players were amazed, savvy players pointed out it was going to s*ck because of the broken energy cost (Rebb was able to mark around 20 enemies for about 60 energy so she obviously had max efficiency) and slow as hell. Players were expecting DE to listen to feedback and fix the damn thing or scrap it and go another route. SScreen was already castable while moving as a onehanded action, hooray! This thread was created in response to that (which players wouldn't have the opportunity to actually play and test until much later) showcase, so players could give more feedback (to to lump together all the rework threads to prevent them from clogging the forum)

25 Nov, Update 19.1.0. The War Within: Ash Revisited. Exactly the same thing they showed in June. It's roughly nine months after the announcement.

Now compare that to what Limbo got, it was, for comparison, 3 months between the announcement of changes and the actual release. Same for Oberon. Hydroid got about a month and a half between announcement and release, and continued to get core fixes for about two weeks to make sure his abilities worked properly.

Oooooohhh....i see. Damn can't believe it's already been that long with 0 response. Also dude Limbo even got 1 whole new gimmick and 1 entirely new ability. Vauban got 3 new grenades who complement his abilities, Hydroid got the entire kit dedicated to be usable in his puddle, which mind you i actually dig, idk why people hate it. Oberon's entire abilities work differently now which is great, he's in a really good spot right now. Ash?...bit of QTL, smoke screen in the air, teleport to objects, marking mode(making bladestorm even slower(AFTER STATING THEY WANTED TO SPEED IT UP WITH THE CLONES))....that's the literal sense of QTL, why does Ash always get the shaft. I also find this funny cause at one point, Steve said Ash was his favorite frame. And then we get this.

[Nazrethim]

11 minutes ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

Oooooohhh....i see. Damn can't believe it's already been that long with 0 response. Also dude Limbo even got 1 whole new gimmick and 1 entirely new ability. Vauban got 3 new grenades who complement his abilities, Hydroid got the entire kit dedicated to be usable in his puddle, which mind you i actually dig, idk why people hate it. Oberon's entire abilities work differently now which is great, he's in a really good spot right now. Ash?...bit of QTL, smoke screen in the air, teleport to objects, marking mode(making bladestorm even slower(AFTER STATING THEY WANTED TO SPEED IT UP WITH THE CLONES))....that's the literal sense of QTL, why does Ash always get the shaft. I also find this funny cause at one point, Steve said Ash was his favorite frame. And then we get this.

Well, Teleport to objects started buggy as hell, telebugging you inside pretty much everything. pre-revisit you could also aim at an occupied rampart and Teleport would skip to the user and stab it, after revisit you teleport to the rampart which completely scr*ws you over because you end up in FRONT of the rampart, ready to eat bullets if the guy doesn't panic and gets down (which is random). There's also the thing that it prioritizes objects in general instead of units. You can also teleport inside the Magnetic Bubbles on Sorties and Sabotages because they technically have hp. After fixin some of those (you no longer telebug inside enemies or crates, still happens with ramparts and everything else) they didn't change anything until, six freaking months later, we got this gem: "You can now use chat during Blade Storm" and "Fatal Teleport no longer works on Juggernaut" (so the assassin good for taking out elite enemies can no longer do so, great).

I consider teleport to object a double edge sword.

Edited November 21, 2017 by Nazrethim

[Zeur2]

I play Ash as my main warframe. And I use all his abilities except Bladestorm just because its boring. All Bladestorm gameplay is:

1. Press 4.

2. Move your mouse left-right quickly.

3. Hide somewere (if you play against high-level enemies)

4. Press 4 and wait.

It does a lot of damage, but its not fun to watch animation how Ash perfrom finishers on enemies. So I think Bladestorm should be like this: when you press 4, you go into "bladestorm mode" - Ash unequips his weapon (like if you use scanners), and then you are targetting to the enemy, press maybe LMB and Ash will teleport to the enemy you targetted and perform 1-2 hits with his hidden blades (just visually, 1 teleport = 1 attack. Attack speed is affected by melee mods). If you hold LMB you can automatically teleport to other enemy, so you can kill group of enemies pretty fast. Also Ash is invincible while teleporting/attacking. So this will keep you moving, attacking or being invisible.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Zeur2

[Shad0wWatcher]

On 11/21/2017 at 6:30 PM, Nazrethim said:

Well, Teleport to objects started buggy as hell, telebugging you inside pretty much everything. pre-revisit you could also aim at an occupied rampart and Teleport would skip to the user and stab it, after revisit you teleport to the rampart which completely scr*ws you over because you end up in FRONT of the rampart, ready to eat bullets if the guy doesn't panic and gets down (which is random). There's also the thing that it prioritizes objects in general instead of units. You can also teleport inside the Magnetic Bubbles on Sorties and Sabotages because they technically have hp. After fixin some of those (you no longer telebug inside enemies or crates, still happens with ramparts and everything else) they didn't change anything until, six freaking months later, we got this gem: "You can now use chat during Blade Storm" and "Fatal Teleport no longer works on Juggernaut" (so the assassin good for taking out elite enemies can no longer do so, great).

I consider teleport to object a double edge sword.

You, my friend, are the perfect "captain's log" lol.