Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

5 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Really?  I've been playing both ways.  Very well and successfully too.  :D

 

With this rework?! haha

100-140 mobs with a speed nova on your team...hahaha cool story bruh 

The enemy will be dead before u mark 2 targets lol 

And youll be on your back yelling for a revive 

Edited November 27, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

100-140 mobs with a speed nova on your team...hahaha cool story bruh

It's called solo mode.  Just because the game has co-op, doesn't mean you are forced to co-op.  Come on man.  You should know by now that there are multiple ways to play this game.  Just because you play one way doesn't mean I have to play that same way and vice/versa.  That's the cool thing about Warframe.  It allows you options to play how you want.  Have some imagination bruh.  :D

[Oni-Habu]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

It's called solo mode.  Just because the game has co-op, doesn't mean you are forced to co-op.  Come on man.  You should know by now that there are multiple ways to play this game.  Just because you play one way doesn't mean I have to play that same way and vice/versa.  That's the cool thing about Warframe.  It allows you options to play how you want.  Have some imagination bruh.  :D

The problem here is that Ash was viable in solo and high level group content. my clan actually used to like having me take ash because he was viable in a very high level environment and could give a group some breathing room for revives or regrouping.

Now? Not so much. while he still is viable solo (what frame isnt?) His survivability and role as a burst dps nuke has essentially been eliminated in high level content.

[(PSN)realtalk963]

Rework idea please feel free to give feed back community.

Blade Storm: ash enters exalted sparing mode. Think exalted kogake. While in this mode clones  pop up and do finishers on enemies every 5 to 7 seconds max.

Teleport: 10 meters base range 40 meters max

Smokescreen: need duration buff

Shuriken: 3 shuriken  3rd 50 percent chance to blind

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

14 minutes ago, CAM237 said:

The problem here is that Ash was viable in solo and high level group content. my clan actually used to like having me take ash because he was viable in a very high level environment and could give a group some breathing room for revives or regrouping.

Now? Not so much. while he still is viable solo (what frame isnt?) His survivability and role as a burst dps nuke has essentially been eliminated in high level content.

Exactly. 

[valt123]

I like the change but there is something that bothers me: when I mark those enemies I keep thinking why don't I just shoot them. It would be way faster to kill them by shooting than just looking at them and tagging them. I would suggest adding a cone or something like that ring on Mesa's peacemaker for easier marking.

[Oni-Habu]

Tbh, I think the best thing is to get away from the clones, and the animations in general.

Maybe something like he enters a mode with a constant energy cost, where he can teleport a set distance ahead for free. anything in Los between each teleport target takes damage. The more enemies damaged in each successive teleport, the more damage the next "teleport" does.

You'd effectively be controlling your own blinking, it'd be a good way to control damage, requires skill and planning, and doesn't draw the game to a crawl with hordes of clones and animations everywhere.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

14 minutes ago, valt123 said:

I like the change but there is something that bothers me: when I mark those enemies I keep thinking why don't I just shoot them. It would be way faster to kill them by shooting than just looking at them and tagging them. I would suggest adding a cone or something like that ring on Mesa's peacemaker for easier marking.

If you are asking yourself that, Your're better off using Loki? no? 

Edited November 27, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[DatDarkOne]

14 minutes ago, CAM237 said:

The problem here is that Ash was viable in solo and high level group content. my clan actually used to like having me take ash because he was viable in a very high level environment and could give a group some breathing room for revives or regrouping.

Now? Not so much. while he still is viable solo (what frame isnt?) His survivability and role as a burst dps nuke has essentially been eliminated in high level content.

This is a very valid point.  It's good that you see the team aspect of Ash.  Most don't.  Team play is not something that I see often or depend on  when I do play in groups.  This is because my chosen frame just happens to survive better away from the group. 

You're comment did remind me of a good side to this whole thing.  Ash will no longer be feared by his own team in Radiation missions anymore.  hehe, sometimes you just gotta find the good side of things.  :D  Good Hunting Tenno.

[cob_metallica]

Suggestion for blade storm : Make clones attack and let you free to run around normally. That would be neat.

[DatDarkOne]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

If you are asking yourself that, Your're better off using Loki? no? 

OMG!! I just know you didn't say that foul name.  LOL  Joking aside.  I do agree with what you said though.  :D

[Yaerion]

8 hours ago, pyrocraziac said:

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6 hours ago, VampirePirate said:

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6 hours ago, WarGrylls said:

Hhm... a lot of people said what i wanted to say already... okay.

 

5 hours ago, TheGoodDarius said:

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5 hours ago, rudman88 said:

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"Ash needs protection while marking with BladeStorm" was Teleported within: 

 

[Oni-Habu]

6 minutes ago, cob_metallica said:

Suggestion for blade storm : Make clones attack and let you free to run around normally. That would be neat.

It wouldn't solve the survivability issue either. Namely part of the reason Ash was so good at higher level content was the invulnerability while bladestorming.

Plus it's just kinda boring. Ash is an assassin, not middle management doling out the work to others.

[NiborDeathridge]

I don't often post on the forums, but as someone who's first built warfame was Ash in U7 and has mained him since, I really feel the need to now. While the changes made to smokescreen bring up his QoL greatly, the changes to Bladestorm are absolutely horrible. Bladestorm was not the problem, and to be honest, it was NEVER the problem, despite the constant boo-hooing that it was so boring and he was "press 4 to win". Bladestorm was Ash's version of the token AoE skill so many frames have with his unique spin being personal safety, a maximum target limit, and comparatively  big damage per target

Now some may argue that with the rework, Bladestorm can now be utilized on a smaller number of targets more efficiently, but let's be realistic, if you're playing Ash and you're trying to deal high damage to a small number of particular targets, you're probably going to be using a dagger with covert lethality and teleport instead as doing so is faster, more energy efficient and still fairly safe given the invincibility frames during the finisher. The new bladestorm is also inferior to its old self at taking on a large number of enemies in that it's both slower to target (I don't care how fast you spin your mouse, you're not targeting enemies as fast as instantly like the old one did, especially if they're not all on the same plane of height or behind cover) and FAR less energy efficient, about 80% less, which is pretty significant

While smoke screen is fairly decent if you're proficient at attacking in fly-by blitzes between cover (less necessary now due to mid-air and on the run casting) and teleport has become significantly more useful since it was tweaked to be both a mobility AND attack option in conjunction with finishers (because as the only form of teleportation that can't choose where to go without something already being there it's a fairly sub-par mobility option, at least in comparison to similar skills), Shuriken remains a woefully underwhelming 1 skill, having zero utility without augment and only being able to hit a maximum of two targets. Many people have complained that Ash users don't use anything but bladestorm, so instead of tweaking bladestorm, give him a viable alternative to it and rework Shuriken. One option might be to give it the  decreased energy cost with consecutive uses similar to landslide or rhino charge or make the projectiles either pierce or ricochet between targets, though the quickest easiest route would be to simply add more projectiles to the skill as it ranks up, maybe only 4 given the potency of their damage when you take their 100% bleed proc and Ash's enhanced bleed procs into account.

TL;DR: Bladestorm was already fine and the new one is TERRIBAD, maybe add a manual force stop on it to stop people crying about being locked in it for too long. Smokescreen and Teleport are fine. Fix Shuriken so it's useful w/o augment.

Feedback?

[cob_metallica]

5 minutes ago, CAM237 said:

It wouldn't solve the survivability issue either. Namely part of the reason Ash was so good at higher level content was the invulnerability while bladestorming.

Plus it's just kinda boring. Ash is an assassin, not middle management doling out the work to others.

If you run around normally, you take damage. so the survivability issue is fixed, its more boring to see these blade storm buggy cinematics while doing nothing.

[lLegion]

Here's what i think it sould be done for that "Rework" to work.

His 1 should have that Mechanic instead of his 4, you could tap 1 to throw a single shuriken at a target or keep it pressed down to mark up to X targets, then release it to throw shurikens at all marked targets.

His 2 should stay as it is.

His 3 should stay as it is as well.

His Ultimate, to make it short, transform it into a "State" like Valkyr's Histeria, The idea here is not to make his Ultimate take skill to use, but to make it fun as well, so why dont you make it a Energy draining ability where you could press your melee attack to teleport to a enemy and do the animation of his ultimate while 2 other clones do the same with 2 nearby targets? that way his ultimate would still work the same but we could actually control him this time, i don't even know why didn't DE though about that before releasing that monstruosity in the first place...

I still think his "Sindicate Mods" could use a little more work, but that's all o can ask for now, i want my Ninja to be Fast and Deadly again, and i don't want to use "Covert Lethality Fatal Teleport" to reproduce that same effect i just explained to you guys.

Edited November 27, 2016 by lLegion

[Guest]

1 hour ago, DMercer said:

Rework Suggestion

1) Shuriken: it should have a chance to Crit. That would be nice.

2) Smoke Screen: a blind instead of a stunt would be better.

3) Teleport: it should naturally do what it's band-aid of an Augment mod does... nuff said.

4) Kinjutsu/ Forbidden Path: Ash shrouds himself in darkness, intensifying and adding effects to his already deadly abilities. Ash gains a speed and damage mitigation buff for the duration.

• this would be a channeled ability, consuming energy over time, and would have a casting cost of 25.

• his first three abilities now cost 50 energy to cast while in this form.

• Forbidden Shuriken: instead of a single target it now damages all enemies in a cone with increased ranged and lethality.

• Forbidden Smoke Screen: casts an AoE of smoke that provides invisibility not just to yourself but also allies within, while blinding entering foes.

• Forbidden Teleport: Ash teleports to the target's location and back; leaving behind a quickly shrinking AoE where copies of himself attack all enemies within.

  Note: Basically, minor tweeks to his first three abilities and replace his 4th with magical space steroids; changing the way the rest of his kit works (less 'Press 4 to Win, and more of 4, then 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, wash, rise, repeat... problem solved!)

Holy cow this sounds amazing.  I'd play the heck out of this.  Although, the energy cost increases on 1,2, and 3 while in his 4 sound a bit steep.  The only other issue I see is how to target the guy at the back of the pack without first launching yourself into the air above them.  Perhaps if it functioned more like a charge that returned to its starting point once complete.  It would definitely create a faster, more interactive blade storm with 4+3 spam.

I definitely agree that his smoke screen should blind or incapacitate and not stagger like it does now.  Smoke obscures vision and can be toxic.  Flash bangs blind, deafen and startle you.  They don't stagger and stun you with blunt force.

[Mandolin53]

There is bug with Ash's Smokescreen where weapons made to be invisible when holstered will become visible in the shadow silouhette (I think I've spelt that right, been a long time since I've used that word), so basically, my rakta cernos is invisible while holstered on my ash, but when I go invisible, I can see it on my back

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, --Q--Mandolin said:

There is bug with Ash's Smokescreen where weapons made to be invisible when holstered will become visible in the shadow silouhette (I think I've spelt that right, been a long time since I've used that word), so basically, my rakta cernos is invisible while holstered on my ash, but when I go invisible, I can see it on my back

That's been a bug for all stealth frames for the longest time.  Loki's weapons always show up, shoulder badges such as the ki'teer and the tethras badges appear as big orbs, etc.  I don't think it's a high priority for them to fix it.

[lLegion]

1 hour ago, DMercer said:

Rework Suggestion

1) Shuriken: it should have a chance to Crit. That would be nice.

2) Smoke Screen: a blind instead of a stunt would be better.

3) Teleport: it should naturally do what it's band-aid of an Augment mod does... nuff said.

4) Kinjutsu/ Forbidden Path: Ash shrouds himself in darkness, intensifying and adding effects to his already deadly abilities. Ash gains a speed and damage mitigation buff for the duration.

• this would be a channeled ability, consuming energy over time, and would have a casting cost of 25.

• his first three abilities now cost 50 energy to cast while in this form.

• Forbidden Shuriken: instead of a single target it now damages all enemies in a cone with increased ranged and lethality.

• Forbidden Smoke Screen: casts an AoE of smoke that provides invisibility not just to yourself but also allies within, while blinding entering foes.

• Forbidden Teleport: Ash teleports to the target's location and back; leaving behind a quickly shrinking AoE where copies of himself attack all enemies within.

  Note: Basically, minor tweeks to his first three abilities and replace his 4th with magical space steroids; changing the way the rest of his kit works (less 'Press 4 to Win, and more of 4, then 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, wash, rise, repeat... problem solved!)

That would be too much work right now, we're on a Discussion Topic about his Rework, so we now know what DE is planning to do with Ash, and that's not what they'll do with it, it almost sounds like you're talking about a Champion from League of Legends to be honest...

That said, i didn't realy liked your propose all that much, i mean, Shurikens in a cone? that would be too much to ask, not to mention the 50 Cost if his Ultimate would already be a Energy Draining Skill. There IS some good ideas there, but most of them are just too much to ask from DE if they're just making lazy reworks like Ash (Compared to the last ones of course).

Edited November 27, 2016 by lLegion

[Yaerion]

10 hours ago, SquidTheSid said:

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1 hour ago, CAM237 said:

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"The Ash rework rework" was Teleported within 

 

[WarGrylls]

Lololol... i see a quote of mine from the oberon thread... but anyway!

An off-the-top-of-my-head concept idea to the animation issues w blade storm: (please no one say exalted haze or exalted shanks or exalted push daggers XD)

Ash's body enters in a smoke and rage filled "ghastly vapor-like" state(we're talking like 25% see through here) as the affected area around him gets slightly hazy(15%+/-). His smoke, not holo, clones are then able to be either flung "physically" from him, or dropped in from above, or even form from below at marked opponents if they have been marked and are still in the affected area.

The skill is channeled, casting cost of 25 energy and at maybe 5 energy/s, and triggering when to hit a marked target is only an E press/hold away. Ash can till take 75% dmg (fixed) from hostile sources but his smoke screen cast functions as normal and teleport cost is 1/3 less for personal finishers done +50% harder than normal with his wrist daggers that he already has. Shurikens, instead of thrown from Ash, is formed from the haze around him at doubled his current amount when in blade storm mode.

[Yaerion]

6 hours ago, Dohako said:

SHURIKEN: Inaros' Desiccation. Add a 25% lifesteal mechanic from total initial damage.

 

SMOKESCREEN: Ivara's Cloak Arrow. 12sec UNAFFECTED by power duration. 6m radius. Aggro enemies inside the smoke clouds to be open to finishers. Ash is not invisible.

 

TELEPORT: Fix all the bugs.

 

BLADESTORM: Oberon's Smite. Mark an enemy and 3 clones appear to attack that mark enemy and every enemy within a 12m radius. Ash DOES NOT go into cinematic mode.

Teleported within: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/725161-ash-revisited-feedback-megathread/

 

[Yaerion]

7 hours ago, R34LM said:

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6 hours ago, Syln said:

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6 hours ago, ZiLei said:

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"Ash improvement to keep him free during Bladestorm but still use his hidden blades" was Teleported within: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/725161-ash-revisited-feedback-megathread/

 

[Yaerion]

7 hours ago, Syln said:

Just throwing this here since i don't hate the new bladestorm and since obviously the intend was to make it more active for the player, i was wondering why are we still in standby mode while the killing is in process ?

Wouldn't it be better if we could still do our thing while ash's clone do the killing ?

Teleported within :