Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Sandtiger1987]

My opinion for what it's worth. 

I think the change to bladestorm is quite ok. If the objective was to make the skill more involved, then that has been achieved. Now people are saying why not kill it with a gun if you need to aim, which i find a little puzzling. if there are two enemies, then sure you should use a gun. you wouldn't use the old bladestorm in that case either. if there are more than that, then i dont think the gun would be faster, at least at higher levels. you dont have to keep your crosshair on the target to aim bladestorm. 

My issue with bladestorm remains the same. the animations take too long. It needs to be limited to max of 3 and rest of the killing can be done by the clones. that should give us the DPS increase to compensate for the LOS nerf. I know some people want the clones to do all the killing while some others like the animation. Maybe mine is the middle ground. 

Edit: the cost is also a bit high imo.

Also, love the new skin.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Sandtiger1987

[Exth]

3 hours ago, Josarian said:

I kind of wish this was pay 2 play.

If it was I could easily say (insert complain) unsubscribe.

In the warcraft mod for counter-strike server I played there wasn't such a thing as nerfing. The other classes just got slightly buffed.

Can I get a huzzah for progress and not for singular conformity?

Maybe DE can give a refund to anyone who bought the Ash Prime Access and is not happy with this rework

[Giantconch]

Have logged on to warframe again, AND THIS TIME it is for more than collecting the daily tribute and alt F4'ing....

 

I've tried the reworked Ash and....

 

Look, I want to have that opinion of "its good" or "its bad" but really the rework is neither good, or bad, its just a rework. Nothing really changed.

 

Teleport Changes:

I remember way back being able to teleport to a cryopod in defense missions. Not sure when, but that got taken out, and is now back in? Cool, I guess...

 

Smoke Screen Changes:

 

QOL improvement that didnt need this whole rework and is long overdue.

 

Blade Storm Changes:

 

Here we go... Alright, the point of the BS rework as stated in the 19.1.0 thread is " We often heard and experienced a power that doesn't allow for player participation beyond pressing 4 once and waiting. We have been increasingly committed to participatory powers (especially ultimates) and focused on emphasizing that for Blade Storm."

 

So, DE wants a more interactive 4 for Ash, and THIS is it? A whole year, for a toggle that auto targets enemies just by moving the cursor over the enemy.

 

This just seems completely pointless. "More participation" amounts to pressing the button, whipping the mouse around to target as many enemies as your energy allows, then press 4 again and sit back.

 

The old bladestorm could have been partly fixed simply by removing the invulnerability to targetted enemies.

 

This rework is being rated 3/10. The only realy saving grace was the QoL change for smoke screen.

 

Back to logging in only for daily tribute.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

Ok, i have seen this video from this thread:

And it seems that ash only physically attack each enemies ONCE, as in 1st mark only, the 2nd & 3rd mark attacks (if any) will be carried out by his clones. During this time, ash is already free from cutscene & players could actually do anything they want

The relation with my previous suggestion above is more like this. Except what i want is that BS only attack each enemies ONCE for every enemies marked.

What we see in current rework:

- Ash marks 10 enemies, each enemies has 3 marks = 30 attacks, 10 by cutscenes (real ash), the rest 20 by clones, damage on an enemy is fixed & must be performed individually (multiple attacks)

What i want:

- Ash marks 10 enemies, each has 3 marks = 10 attacks, 5 by cutscenes (real ash), the rest 5 by clones, damage on an enemy = (fixed damage x marks) in a single attack

Edited November 28, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[Harkonnenn]

DE, wanna know the best variant of this new Blade storm?

The principle is similar to one in the "Overlord" game. The hero targeted mobs and his minions attacked them. So Ash also needs his clones to attack his targets without attacking himself. Beacuse blade storm became much slower ability with those makings and then watching a "finisher" movie

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

My suggestion for Bladestorm rework:

As of current rework:

If ash marks 10 enemies, with each has 3 marks, then the result = 30 attacks, 10 is performed by ash (all the 1st mark on each enemy in cutscenes) the rest 20 will be performed by clones. After the 10 cutscenes, ash is already free from bladestorm & can do whatever he wants, even if the clones still doing bladestorm.

What i want:

If ash marks 10 enemies, with each has 3 marks, then the result = 10 attacks, the first 5 performed by ash (cutscenes), the rest by clones. After the first 5 ash will be free of bladestorm animation. The damage depends on marks, currently, 3 marks = 3 attacks, i want to simplified those 3 marks into 1 attack with damage = to 3 attacks. This will cut down the bladestorm animation by 50%, faster ult, more kills, but still didnt lose the essence of the ol' bladestorm.

Edited November 28, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

35 minutes ago, giantconch said:

The old bladestorm could have been partly fixed simply by removing the invulnerability to targetted enemies.

Thats not possible, its bcos the skill itself basically a finisher attacks, have u ever kill an enemy while someone else perform a finisher to it? It doesnt have to be ash. Excal, inaros, whatever it is. Its simple...u cant, cos its finisher.

Edited November 28, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[KamaruRed]

Hi I have a suggestion for ash's teleport because it still seems to be kind of jank

Firstly you need to get rid of that terrible flip animation because it wastes so much time.

Secondly his teleport need to be more controllable, i like being able to target anything with a health bar but that is still too restricted when we got a guy whose teleport is waaay better: NEZHA.

This guy can throw his chakram and teleport to its current location plus it causes damage, what I want for ASH is something like a "FLYING THUNDER GOD JUTSU" style teleport for anyone familiar with NARUTO(pls no eye rolling, I'm making a point here!).

What ASH would do is throw a kunia in a straight line and at this point you could teleport to its current in-flight location or you could wait for it to hit its target whether its an object or an enemy/ally or in keeping with this recent change if you target something with a health bar then you're instantly but if your target does not have a health bar you can then use the kunia method as a general means of mobility, just to make the ability useful in all situations. Of coarse, this kunia targeted teleport would have a certain range that could be modded for power range.

Thirdly, he could have an augment mod where he throws multiple kunia to teleport to different locations in succession and for every tele  port ASH performs, that kunia disappears so as to not abuse the utility of this augment and honestly GET RID OF THAT FLIP AFTER THE JUMP... its very annoying.

These ideas i think would make teleport way more fun to use and actually useful for general traversal. please feel free to add as I know i have forgotten something on this

This gif should give you an clue of how my idea would work.

[Giantconch]

Just now, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

Thats not possible, its bcos the skill itself basically a finisher attacks, have u ever kill an enemy while someone else perform a finisher to it? It doesnt have to be ash. Excal, inaros, whatevern its simple...u cant, cos its finisher.

 

"You cant coz finisher" is not an argument I accept. Not being able to kill the enemy while Ash is on their back stabbing them in the head would count as the finisher and I can accept not being able to kill the enemy at THAT point, but the enemy just being "targetted" for later death becoming invulnerable through the entire animation while Ash kills OTHER enemies is not acceptable.

 

You seem to have completely missed what I was saying there, or you have no idea at all how the invulnerability worked on targetted enemies with the old bladestorm.

[StealthyCARNAGE]

I'm just gonna throw my ideas out there, because honestly, I'm somewhat fed up:

Bladestorm - Give it a larger custom targeting reticle and remove Ash(the player) from the cutscene.

And for those that actually like his assassination animation: Simply give Fatal Teleport that animation and boom, problem solved.

Although I really don't think this is really the ultimate solution, I'd say it should at least have the potential to pacify (pacify, not satisfy) the majority of both sides.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

7 minutes ago, giantconch said:

You seem to have completely missed what I was saying there, or you have no idea at all how the invulnerability worked on targetted enemies with the old bladestorm.

I know what youre trying to say, i have stolen some kills from ash bladestorm pre rework before, still doing it even today (im on console, ash not reworked here yet), even when they got marked, the real problem is the time window to do that is very small, but its not impossible.

Edited November 28, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[NightmareT12]

Some thoughts:

-I find Bladestorm more interactive

-Synergy with Smoke Bomb and Naramon, which I personally love

-Being able to Teleport more freely is always good, so great!

-When you target many enemies, the old "play a long cinematic" issue remains -- if you guys can hard cap the amount of times Ash goes to stab himself, it'd be great. Then the clones could do the rest. I think that 5 animations per cast would be good enough.

-Shuriken still could use more love. Seeking Shuriken is great and all, but Shuriken could still use more love.

Nothing more to add right now. Maybe the damage could be helped but ehh... Maybe it would get too crazy. Perhaps make the Bladestorm procs be doubled in damage would help?

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

10 minutes ago, S.C. said:

And for those that actually like his assassination animation: Simply give Fatal Teleport that animation and boom, problem solved

Not gonna work, fatal teleport finisher animation DEPENDS ON THE MELEE. And if you meant about that camera angles during bladestorm for fatal teleport, i dont like it as well, bcos normally i would move the camera to target other enemies while doing fatal teleport, so having camera angles like that will slow things down. Its just 1 finisher moves, not multiple & youre not returning to your casting position again.

Edited November 28, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[StealthyCARNAGE]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

Not gonna work, fatal teleport finisher animation DEPENDS ON THE MELEE. And if you meant about that camera angles during bladestorm for fatal teleport, i dont like it as well, bcos normally i would move the camera to target other enemies while doing fatal teleport, so having camera angles like that will slow things down. Its just 1 finisher moves, not multiple & youre not returning to your casting position again.

So? Just make it use your melee weapon stats. Nor does it have to return you to your starting point. I only said 'animation', as in only the finisher animation.

Edited November 28, 2016 by S.C.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

1 minute ago, S.C. said:

So? Just make it use your melee weapon stats. Nor does it have to return you to your starting point. I only said 'animation', as in only the finisher animation.

Well then its already there. Since fatal teleport augment was released. What else?

[StealthyCARNAGE]

Just now, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

Well then its already there. Since fatal teleport augment was released. What else?

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to argue here.

[Reifnir]

Currently Bladestorm is just not worth it. 

Might as well use SomaP/AkstilettoP to spray&pray with very similar results. 

 

It needs:

a) Ability to see and target enemies through walls. 

b) Removal of player teleport sequence - let the clones do the work and allow Ash to stay mobile. 

c) Bladestorm kills need to count as stealth kills if targets were not alerted prior to casting it. What's the point of bodies disappearing when it can't be reliably used to rack up stealth kill multiplier?

Edited November 28, 2016 by Reifnir

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

Just now, S.C. said:

I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to argue here.

Well, you want fatal teleport with finisher animation. Fatal teleport finisher animation is based on melee, NORMAL MELEE FINISHER. Well its already there, nothing change really. I just dont understand why you want something thats already exist ingame.

[StealthyCARNAGE]

Just now, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

Well, you want fatal teleport with finisher animation. Fatal teleport finisher animation is based on melee, NORMAL MELEE FINISHER. Well its already there, nothing change really. I just dont understand why you want something thats already exist ingame.

Errr I said replace the default melee finisher animation of Fatal Teleport with the Bladestorm finisher animation. Did you even read it properly?

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

2 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

c) Bladestorm kills need to count as stealth kills if targets were not alerted prior to casting it. What's the point of bodies disappearing when it can't be reliably used to rack up stealth kill multiplier?

Bcos it would be too op?

U just stand still in the corner, marks all targets, bladestorm away & BOOM! 500% ++ multiplier & all from your safety spot in the corner. Now compare it to when you have to carefully pick your kill one by one, so others wouldnt get alerted by the kills.

[Reifnir]

Just now, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

Bcos it would be too op?

Yeah, totally. I mean, killing packs of mobs at once while racking up stealth multiplier is not allowed and can't be done!

Oh, wait...

[Mazauk]

Thanks DE for the Rework, I personally think he is more fun to play.
 Especially Smoke Screen is really awesome now and combined with fatal teleport it is really fun to play him now.

I dont think my opinion is the law but I will try and provide feedback based on my feelings and playtesting.

 

At the moment I personally dont use Bladestorm on him which is kind of unfortunate. I feel like Ash gained power as an Invis or Survival Frame but lost a lot of power if u use him as a DPS-Frame. Thats why I would recommend buffing Bladestorm in compensation for the Changes as I describe below.

His Bladestorm got way slower now without much Benefit to it.

 

Bladestorm got slower: Make him Jump every Single marked target at once as soon as you activate your Bladestorm. Makes it way faster in execution and if you quickly mark many targets you can kill them even faster than before! That would allow you to keep moving through the level while Killing and it would make Ashs Gameplay way more fluid and faster!

 

Overall DPS of Bladestorm is lower now: Give Bladestorm an additional effect. Make it reduce an affected targets health by a fixed % to increase his dmg potential against goups of enemies in real late game or simply buff his dmg.

 

Edit:

Also I think it would be really friggin awesome if we were able to recast SmokeScreen! The Stagger on enemies is awesome and you could help your team stay invisible as well!

It would be a great improvement!

 

Edit 2:

I also strongly approve the idea that Ash can see enemies and Allies through walls when entering Bladestorm. That would be really awesome for mobility if you use Teleport during your Bladestorm and it would make targeting way easier.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Mazauk

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

Just now, S.C. said:

Errr I said replace the default melee finisher animation of Fatal Teleport with the Bladestorm finisher animation. Did you even read it properly?

Thats what i said the 1st time! it wouldnt make sense if you kill with hidden blades when youre having a giant axe as your melee. I like my dagger finisher move, and fatal teleport makes it easy to do that.

[(PSN)ATreidezz]

12 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

Yeah, totally. I mean, killing packs of mobs at once while racking up stealth multiplier is not allowed and can't be done!

Oh, wait...

How many times buttons pressed & total of buttons need to be pressed as loki

VS

how many times buttons pressed & need to be pressed as Ash with bladestorm only.

Edited November 28, 2016 by (PS4)ATreidezz

[Reifnir]

Just now, (PS4)ATreidezz said:

How many times buttons pressed & total of buttons need to be pressed as loki

VS

how many times buttons pressed & need to be pressed as Ash with bladestorm only.

So we're down from "too OP" to "Loki has to press more buttons" now? :D

Well, as a matter of fact, Bladestorm Ash would spend MORE time doing this. Because marking enemies and executing Bladestorm actually takes LONGER, stealth multiplier or not. Slide-attacking through the entire level with ridiculously long-reaching weapons like in the video provided is one of the fastest way to farm affinity/focus ever.