Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

6 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I would advise doing a little more research.  Bushido is similar to a code of honor like chivalry.  That doesn't mean all Samurai followed it.  It also doesn't exclude one with shinobi training from following it.  Check out the true history of Hattori Hanzo.  You will see that he qualifies as both samurai and ninja even by your definitions.  Ash's Deluxe skin does pay tribute to both groups. 

edit: this isn't meant as an argument.  Just more a offering of more insight and suggestions.  Also, sorry for the slightly off topic posts.

Samurai were generals of the shugun, the rulers of this era. A code to serve and to uphold theyr honor and the law was somewhat of a mandatory 😒 Most sure had theyr personal freedom but the base of this code was so they could be trusted. Loosing this trust meant death.

(this concept exists to this very day, F*** up real bad at work and you're sure to be fired, no matter how good you are or how much your chef likes you. It is a warning to everyone not taking stuff serious.)

 

There sure were shinobi following it as it somewhat equaled, as you said, chivalry or morals as one might say but it wasn't asked for as shinobi were warriors from small villages who usually distanced themselfes from the rulers and built on myths and trickery to spread fear to keep it this way.

 

The reality of all of this boils down to politics rly and the myths are topic to creativity and can be altered any way it seems fitting. Not the best base for historical accuracy ;)

Edited December 20, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

6 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

1- Yeah, shuriken were mostly used for distraction or to wound/cripple a chasing opponent, in Warframe is used to wound and kill.

You know this actually brings up an interesting point.

Many people complain that Ash's Shuriken doesn't have utility like other 1st powers. 

How about they add a slow effect to enemies hit by Shuriken? He has the ability to kill already so the common suggestion of making shuriken benefit from the combo counter (an idea I love btw for high level missions) may not actually be necessary if they give it utility. Slow is an efficient method of combo-ing with his impressive speed to home in on his prey and slow keep the trash that he's not targeting off of him while he goes in for his kill.

Honestly, as complex as some first powers are, they could probably have his Shuriken bleed, slow and benefit from combo counter and still not be OP. Unlike many 1st powers, he can only hit 2 targets no matter what. Why not make it count for something? :D

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

 So just for the record I have been vary critical of Ashs BS rework. They more I play with him and try different weapon synergies the more Im liking Ash again. (Still dont like the cut scene however I can speed it up so its not to intrusive, but i digress). I want to say I love his 2,3 with x2 sets of trickery. When trickery procs I can actually get upto 42 seconds of invisibility. Also I have a newly aquired cernos riven mod, I put it rakta cernos. And as some one else stated u just leave BS on all the time, as soon as rakta procs u can go straight into your BS (his 1 is helpful to get rakta procs) and it does kill with one mark upto lvl 80. Just passionate about Ash because he was always my goto. (other than my Nyx for cenimatic quests that is) I am actually at piece with his utl. 

[Zaifarh]

I'm a real Ash fan. And now my happiness when playing Ash has been taken away. This is my opinion about the "Blade Storm" rework.

For me, you did nothing better to the ability but worse. How?

1. More annoying: You must press 4 then looking for targets to lock them and press 4 again to kill them over and over. Waste of times and have to take damage while locking if you don't use "Smoke Screen" before(forcing you to make a power duration build). Moreover, The locked targets might be killed by another teammates. That's suck when you need to kill lots of mob by yourself for focus exp.
2. More power wasted: With maximize power efficiency(+175%), on the old one, you only have to spent 25 power per use and you can kill maximum 18 targets in range at once. And it was an automatic locking system, so you can even kill the targets you don't see, very useful. On the new one, you have to spent 2.5 power for 1 target(of course, on invisible stat). That means 2.5*18=45 power!!!

The most ridiculous thing is you talk about "beyond pressing 4 once and waiting", LOL are you serious, DE? Almost of the fourth abilities also work this way, for example Ember, Banshee, Nyx, etc. Will you rework them all and make them worse either? If the answer is yes, I can tell you that you are ruining Warframe and making the end of the game comes faster.

[BMJY1000]

On 12/17/2016 at 7:22 PM, trunks013 said:

Then get invis and use container ^.^ 

Not lying i rly enjoy the new ash

 

If that the case then I might as well use the old Blade Strom because besides the marking, old Blade Strom and new Blade Strom are pretty much the same. That slow marking is the reason why the new Blade Strom is so lame. And you are lying, you cannot find a way to enjoy the new can't save you from danger, slow marking. if you want more interactivity then use Teleport(with Fatal Teleport), useless, Blade Strom.

[trunks013]

3 hours ago, BMJY1000 said:

If that the case then I might as well use the old Blade Strom because besides the marking, old Blade Strom and new Blade Strom are pretty much the same. That slow marking is the reason why the new Blade Strom is so lame. And you are lying, you cannot find a way to enjoy the new can't save you from danger, slow marking. if you want more interactivity then use Teleport(with Fatal Teleport), useless, Blade Strom.

Tenno i understand your point of view and i see your point.

Personaly i always felt that the previous bladestorm was too much press 4 to win.

You talk about Fatal Teleport but forget to mention that you cannot use it on an enemy in the middle of a crowd it will alert enemy and you are not invincible during the finisher. Actualy Nazrethim is correct but what i mean is that you can get yourself killed prety easely if you are surounded after the fatal teleport ( like instant death in high level missions ) wich is not the case with bladestorm.

The new bladestorm on the other end make you invincible like the old one and bring you back in your starting point. Looks like minor diference to some tenno but to me its huge.

Edited December 21, 2016 by trunks013

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, trunks013 said:

 you are not invincible during the finisher.

Actually, you are. Finisher attacks are 1v1 affairs that make both the attacker and the victim inmune to third party damage or effect for the whole animation, Finisher speed is affected by melee attack speed, meaning running a slow weapon without any atk spd buff will make you kill slower but also have longer invulnerability windows, on the contrary increasing attack speed reduces that invincibility window as the animation is done faster.

[trunks013]

16 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Actually, you are. Finisher attacks are 1v1 affairs that make both the attacker and the victim inmune to third party damage or effect for the whole animation, Finisher speed is affected by melee attack speed, meaning running a slow weapon without any atk spd buff will make you kill slower but also have longer invulnerability windows, on the contrary increasing attack speed reduces that invincibility window as the animation is done faster.

Believe me there is gaps of vulnerability ^.^ try it . At the end of the animation there is a moment where you can't move and you can still get killed. 

Super easy to test lvl 100 and over heavy gunner in a mob fatal teleport to one of them in the middle. 

Of course you must unequip arcane trickery ^. ^

Edited December 21, 2016 by trunks013

[(PSN)RadioChild1]

I didn't like the new Ash rework it messed him up all the warranties don't need reworked you get one built and everything is perfect and then it's reworked Mag broke my heart when it was re done now Ash only reason I liked this game was because it wasn't humanized you didn't have to save a princess or all this dumb stuff you was fighting for the planet's and to help other beings and then you put this thing in the back of the ship for us to do too humanizing the game I liked it because we wasn't we was something else all these changes not all are bad but a lot of stuff you change isn't for the best you take away from the frames you take away what makes them special and the reason most of us  play but now after 2 years of me playing and buying up a lot of stuff I'm just about done with it the change to Ash just made my soul vomit...

[DatDarkOne]

@(PS4)RadioChild1--Punctuation can be your friend.  It would make your post much easier to understand.   

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, trunks013 said:

Believe me there is gaps of vulnerability ^.^ try it . At the end of the animation there is a moment where you can't move and you can still get killed. 

Super easy to test lvl 100 and over heavy gunner in a mob fatal teleport to one of them in the middle. 

Of course you must unequip arcane trickery ^. ^

I do Survivals up to lvl 160 every day (only once though) and never die or take any damage during the animation. They just oneshoted you the very instant the invulnerability window ended. Also, I don't have trickery, despise trials and haven't bothered to trade.

[trunks013]

3 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I do Survivals up to lvl 160 every day (only once though) and never die or take any damage during the animation. They just oneshoted you the very instant the invulnerability window ended. Also, I don't have trickery, despise trials and haven't bothered to trade.

Then trickery is a must try ^.^ 

[AKKILLA]

How can one be an Ash fan and not grind for Arcane Trickery? Its only 20-30 plat each. Must use for Ash players

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

7 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

How can one be an Ash fan and not grind for Arcane Trickery? Its only 20-30 plat each. Must use for Ash players

It is most peculiar

[dodyouserious]

oh my god this tread is no longer pinned...it only means 1 thing that ash will be left like this for eternity/

[GTX49]

2 minutes ago, xvxjiniwai said:

oh my god this tread is no longer pinned...it only means 1 thing that ash will be left like this for eternity/

Seems like it, plus all the coming updates didnt include anything to fix him.. sooooo might as well quit hope.

[TheSteelRat]

31 minutes ago, GTX49 said:

Seems like it, plus all the coming updates didnt include anything to fix him.. sooooo might as well quit hope.

which brings me to my point about 60 pages ago.  The arsenal still shows 2k damage instead of 3.2k for blade storm, the last dev stream didn't mention it.  And it seems all this feedback was wasted effort cause it fairly split betwean  both camps of Pro/Con. 

So DE thinks it is good enough, and is moving on

Might not even bother with feebback threads anymore, only reason DE will change is if people are willing to storm their office with pitchforks and torches

[Somethinglurks]

The rework was bad and they should feel bad.

[(XBOX)Drone A5R]

Again I feel like Shuriken should scale with secondary mods and Smoke Screen be an actual smoke screen, make it a throw-able like Vauban's abilities. Inside the smoke enemies have reduced visibility (like the fog condition in sorites) and teammates (and objectives)  inside the smoke are partially invisibe to enemies outside off it or enemies have reduced accuracy when aiming at the smoke. Upon its initial activation it'll stun enemies and leave them open to finishers, and enemies within the smoke are instantly marked for blade storm (more marks will require you to active targeting mode), this could also be a replacement to Ash's Smoke Shadow aug. (which Ivara's Quiver can do better IMO).

Something else I would like to recommend (and I don't know how possible this is and do see a bit of problems with it) is that energy is consumed not upon marking but upon attacking. Now the problem is that it will turn Bstorm into a toggle (or at least if you want it to) you could always have targeting mode on and when you see a group of enemies instead of stopping the flow of combat to activate targeting mode then activating attack mode, you could just swipe your crosshairs over them and then shred'em. I say it's a problem because I know others will but really it just keeps the flow of combat from slowing down.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

On 21.12.2016 at 2:05 PM, Zaifarh said:

I'm a real Ash fan. And now my happiness when playing Ash has been taken away. This is my opinion about the "Blade Storm" rework.

For me, you did nothing better to the ability but worse. How?

1. More annoying: You must press 4 then looking for targets to lock them and press 4 again to kill them over and over. Waste of times and have to take damage while locking if you don't use "Smoke Screen" before(forcing you to make a power duration build). Moreover, The locked targets might be killed by another teammates. That's suck when you need to kill lots of mob by yourself for focus exp.
2. More power wasted: With maximize power efficiency(+175%), on the old one, you only have to spent 25 power per use and you can kill maximum 18 targets in range at once. And it was an automatic locking system, so you can even kill the targets you don't see, very useful. On the new one, you have to spent 2.5 power for 1 target(of course, on invisible stat). That means 2.5*18=45 power!!!

The most ridiculous thing is you talk about "beyond pressing 4 once and waiting", LOL are you serious, DE? Almost of the fourth abilities also work this way, for example Ember, Banshee, Nyx, etc. Will you rework them all and make them worse either? If the answer is yes, I can tell you that you are ruining Warframe and making the end of the game comes faster.

Is power cost rly a issue tho?

 

This change made any stat but strength (and melee mods) completely irrelevant

That's at least 2-3 gained slots.

I mean the ability needs are now, next to efficiency-

BS: Strength, any kind of invisibility

Teleport: Augument is usefull.

Smoke screen: stagger and resets multiplier. Duration but can be compensated by naramon and arcane trickery.

Shuriken: meh ability. Profits from strength.

The only stats ash needs now are strength and efficiency due to the change. Is the power cost relevant when you're actually in the position to build for power management? How much stronger did your build become ever since you dropped overextendet?

 

As for me: 

I gained 75% power strength 

put rage, armored agility (could've also put strength in that slot to get to 105% strength...i might forma to QT though), power drift and Prime flow in the new setup and switched my augument to the teleport one.

I usually had some duration on him but the extra armor and energy make not using the pre-naramon cover affordable. Combos gained trough body count and better and cheaper teleport make the BS aug irrelevant as well.

---------closing----------

Teleport now costs half and does more, i still have about the same power/damage ratio on bladestorm (up to 100% strength-doubled cost. It got even stronger as melee multipliers are easyer to substain with teleport and body count) and i could stuff power management and utility onto ash without loosing bladestorm effectivity....is there honestly a issue with the new balance they created? BS can't be spammed anymore. That's the one thing that didn't get A LOT better but that was the point of the whole rework anyways >.>

 

Edited December 22, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Zaifarh]

On ‎21‎/‎12‎/‎2559 at 9:11 PM, trunks013 said:

Personaly i always felt that the previous bladestorm was too much press 4 to win.

Why are you so serious about pressing 4 to win? The new Blade Storm is just more press 4 to win. As I posted, almost of the fourth abilities on any frame also work the same way.

In this case, I'll present a new Blade Storm! working the same way like Ember. Just press 4 once then shadow copies will be spawned and auto-lock and attack every enemies that come in range. However, power will be consumed X amount per every time the copies attack while your main Ash can still moving as same as Ember!

If it is too godly, then change the way it works to Banshee way. Pressing 4 and your main Ash must be stay still and do a ninjutsu pose while your copies killing all of those enemies come in range. Of course, power consuming will work the same way as the above one.

It is Naruto's Bunshin no Jutsu "Blade Storm" version. Don't you guys think it's better?

Edited December 23, 2016 by Zaifarh

[StonedMakak]

Well, it seems Ash is working as intended. Unfortunate, but at least some folks seem to enjoy it. Back to Ivara I guess, shame she doesn't have a skin as cool as Koga. Then again, her kit more than makes up for it.

 

4 hours ago, Zaifarh said:

It is Naruto's Bunshin no Jutsu "Blade Storm" version. Don't you guys think it's better?

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's a rather horrible idea. The Ember copypast would be hilariously OP, unless severely nerfed (in which case it would be as meh as WoF), and the Banshee copypast would be even more automated gameplay where you press a button and go do something else while the game plays itself. 

The thing is, that the cutscene acts as a cooldown/casting time restriction for BS. Which is somewhat amusing seeing that community and devs don't want any sort of cooldowns in the game, and yet the cutscene is performing this exact function, but that's neither here nor there.  

[Zaifarh]

46 minutes ago, tisdfogg said:

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's a rather horrible idea. The Ember copypast would be hilariously OP, unless severely nerfed (in which case it would be as meh as WoF), and the Banshee copypast would be even more automated gameplay where you press a button and go do something else while the game plays itself. 

The thing is, that the cutscene acts as a cooldown/casting time restriction for BS. Which is somewhat amusing seeing that community and devs don't want any sort of cooldowns in the game, and yet the cutscene is performing this exact function, but that's neither here nor there.  

The "Bunshin no Jutsu "Blade Storm" versions" I posted, were jokes. Because I know it will never be happened and all of my point was to be sarcastic for those who are so serious about pressing 4. So, I used Ember or Banshee way to be a metaphor and making players and DE realize; If lots of people don't like the new Blade Storm rework and DE can't fix that, fine! just bring the old one back and stop worry about the pressing 4 thing.

Because almost of the fourth abilities are "Press 4 to Win" either!!

[GTX49]

Farewell Ash

 

[trunks013]

8 hours ago, Zaifarh said:

Why are you so serious about pressing 4 to win? The new Blade Storm is just more press 4 to win. As I posted, almost of the fourth abilities on any frame also work the same way.

In this case, I'll present a new Blade Storm! working the same way like Ember. Just press 4 once then shadow copies will be spawned and auto-lock and attack every enemies that come in range. However, power will be consumed X amount per every time the copies attack while your main Ash can still moving as same as Ember!

If it is too godly, then change the way it works to Banshee way. Pressing 4 and your main Ash must be stay still and do a ninjutsu pose while your copies killing all of those enemies come in range. Of course, power consuming will work the same way as the above one.

It is Naruto's Bunshin no Jutsu "Blade Storm" version. Don't you guys think it's better?

I personaly think the new blade storm require more interaction than just aiming at the first target unleash blade storm take a cofee and lockpick 3 pad lock by the time the animation as endend ( btw the 3 padlock is not a joke thats actualy my personal best during an animation of bladestorm ^.^ )

I consider press 4 to win to be the following situation

Press 4 and sit back while everything is done and you have nothing to do at all ( Yep totaly like banshee in interception you are right )

Not press 4 to win is when you have interaction to do like Excal Exalted blade or ivara Artemis bow.