Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[StonedMakak]

10 hours ago, Zaifarh said:

The "Bunshin no Jutsu "Blade Storm" versions" I posted, were jokes. Because I know it will never be happened and all of my point was to be sarcastic for those who are so serious about pressing 4. So, I used Ember or Banshee way to be a metaphor and making players and DE realize; If lots of people don't like the new Blade Storm rework and DE can't fix that, fine! just bring the old one back and stop worry about the pressing 4 thing.

Because almost of the fourth abilities are "Press 4 to Win" either!!

Apologies, sarcasm can be hard to detect in writing, more so in this community where suggestions like that are often seriously considered. My bad.

Edited December 23, 2016 by tisdfogg

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

11 hours ago, Zaifarh said:

Why are you so serious about pressing 4 to win? The new Blade Storm is just more press 4 to win. As I posted, almost of the fourth abilities on any frame also work the same way.

In this case, I'll present a new Blade Storm! working the same way like Ember. Just press 4 once then shadow copies will be spawned and auto-lock and attack every enemies that come in range. However, power will be consumed X amount per every time the copies attack while your main Ash can still moving as same as Ember!

If it is too godly, then change the way it works to Banshee way. Pressing 4 and your main Ash must be stay still and do a ninjutsu pose while your copies killing all of those enemies come in range. Of course, power consuming will work the same way as the above one.

It is Naruto's Bunshin no Jutsu "Blade Storm" version. Don't you guys think it's better?

Like this 😀 😂 lol

Edited December 23, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[dodyouserious]

thanks for killing ash now i cant use him 

[GTX49]

These are the main issues with his BS, the rest of the abilities are fine.

-- BS became the slowest ult to cast ever as it takes like a whole min to setup plus waiting for the cutscene to end, which is quite illogical to added such slow thing in a fast paced game. Its boring and takes time to use.. not fun

-- Ash now must stand in open fire to mark those enemies as it puts him in risk of getting killed especially in sorties and lvl 100 enemies who could genuinely 1 shot him.

All what DE did is making the cast of his Bladestorm more slow with high energy requirement to force us to not to use it anymore; they didn't do what they personally stated before to remove the cutscene that makes us feel like throwing up.

We certainly DID NOT ask for the Bladestorm to become impossible for us to use, so ash players would end up forgetting about the skill. The role of Ash was destroyed with this crime of a rework

My question is, how was this rework approved since it concluded the opposite of everything DE stated? This is more than a nerf.. its a complete discard to his Ult as there is no point in using it any more at alllllllllllll

[Nazrethim]

2 hours ago, GTX49 said:

These are the main issues with his BS, the rest of the abilities are fine.

-- BS became the slowest ult to cast ever as it takes like a whole min to setup plus waiting for the cutscene to end, which is quite illogical to added such slow thing in a fast paced game. Its boring and takes time to use.. not fun

Slowest ult? How?! I can mark a crowd of dudes in a single sweep. The "cutscene" lasts at best the same as old bladestorm (and that0s if you mark a LOT of targets). I usually bulletjump or double jump to get eagle view and sweep them, all in a split second, how is that not fast pace?

2 hours ago, GTX49 said:

-- Ash now must stand in open fire to mark those enemies as it puts him in risk of getting killed especially in sorties and lvl 100 enemies who could genuinely 1 shot him.

You stand in open fire, I maneuver a lot or activate smoke screen and generally dodge a lot.

2 hours ago, GTX49 said:

We certainly DID NOT ask for the Bladestorm to become impossible for us to use, so ash players would end up forgetting about the skill. The role of Ash was destroyed with this crime of a rework

Actually it's very practical to use now, and we no longer get stuck attacking invulnerable/resistant enemies forever. Ash role as master assassin is still there, and he's solid.

2 hours ago, GTX49 said:

My question is, how was this rework approved since it concluded the opposite of everything DE stated? This is more than a nerf.. its a complete discard to his Ult as there is no point in using it any more at alllllllllllll

The ult is as strong as before, maybe a bit costy, but we got QoL to compensate. The ability is very worth casting, what isn't worth right now it's the augment.

[StonedMakak]

4 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

The ult is as strong as before, maybe a bit costy, but we got QoL to compensate. The ability is very worth casting, what isn't worth right now it's the augment.

I'm not going to dispute your other points, because I agree that he is still pretty solid (always has been really), except for this titbit here, which I consider the crux of the issue with this rework.

Don't you think they could've done better than simple QoL changes after all this time and all the feedback? Not to mention that #1 didn't even get any. Seriously, how difficult it could've been to "unlock" Ash's lower body for SS? Likewise, IIRC you could use Teleport on pods and Life Support towers in the past and they fixed it, so I'd wager that making it work on everything with a health bar was not that complicated or time consuming either.

As for the Bladestorm, the targeting mechanic was also already there, expect it was automatic and instantaneous, they just split it in two parts and added the mouseover requirement. Again, not something that would take a year to figure out. Underwhelming, no?

Like someone else said, it's the same frame with the same problems, just much more balanced now.

To keep this constructive, an idea I had today for Shuriken - Killing an enemy affected by a DoT from Shuriken grants 1 free Bladestorm mark to use on any enemy, two if the DoT is what kills them.

And since I agree that the augment is poop right now, here's a suggestion for a new one: Scent of Blood: Enemies that survive a Bladestorm attack, take increased damage from melee weapons and upon being killed by melee, give a overall mobility buff (sprinting, parkour, sliding etc.) and restore some health; works for squadmates as well. Gives some team utility and better scaling.

[Nazrethim]

4 minutes ago, tisdfogg said:

And since I agree that the augment is poop right now, here's a suggestion for a new one: Scent of Blood: Enemies that survive a Bladestorm attack, take increased damage from melee weapons and upon being killed by melee, give a overall mobility buff (sprinting, parkour, sliding etc.) and restore some health; works for squadmates as well. Gives some team utility and better scaling.

Sounds kind of useful, though I would prefer to keep the name Rising Storm and changing the effect to make it useful, simply changing it into +extra combo counter hits like Surging Dash would be enough to push it into useful territory as it would allow for fast combo building.

[StonedMakak]

33 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Sounds kind of useful, though I would prefer to keep the name Rising Storm and changing the effect to make it useful, simply changing it into +extra combo counter hits like Surging Dash would be enough to push it into useful territory as it would allow for fast combo building.

True, but I was making a suggestion based on my own experience, and between Relentless Combination, Drifting Contact and Body Count, I never fell starved for combo points. Plus, I'd prefer to put a mod for boosting the counter on my melee and gain a slot on my frame. Again, very subjective matter. Ideally, they could tweak Rising and just add another Augment for those of us who want that type of a mod on the weapon itself.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, tisdfogg said:

True, but I was making a suggestion based on my own experience, and between Relentless Combination, Drifting Contact and Body Count, I never fell starved for combo points. Plus, I'd prefer to put a mod for boosting the counter on my melee and gain a slot on my frame. Again, very subjective matter. Ideally, they could tweak Rising and just add another Augment for those of us who want that type of a mod on the weapon itself.

Yup, buff/changes + additions would be wonderful.

[Death_Master_]

No matter how many people here protect Ash nerf it made Ash less popular.

If before nerf average price was around 140-150pl for  Ash P set - now it is twice less meaning less people wish it.

But still Ash parts are a nice source of ducats for me, its all Ash is worth now IMO.

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

Here's some constructive feedback:

The new BS sucks and it sucks hard. Either put in some proper effort into making it actually something cool as has been suggested by many many players and even yourselves or change it back to the way it was asap.

Any of the options i have seen being submitted by other players in the past is more feasible then what has been offered now.

Marking targets to be hit by your ultimate is absurd in the mildest of words when compared to any other frame out there. To boot the energy consumption for the ability is astronomical and the damage mediocre for an ability that can rarely be properly executed due to the fact  weapons and other frame abilities have cleared the room already.

Much has been said in this thread but i personally would like to say that apart from the good changes to teleport and smoke screen, DE should be deeply ashamed for the product they have delivered with the 'new' BS. It is really really cheap to add some lame targeting system and higher energycost to the exact same cutscene ability. 

Anyone that defends this new BS is either not an Ash mainer and loves to see the Ash players suffer or hasnt been trying this new stuff extensively enough.

Damage falloff in any levelrange vs other frames is so bad you cant even call Ash a damage frame anymore.

What a joke!

 

 

[Nagisawa]

On 12/20/2016 at 2:18 AM, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

in short, well no

His 1,3,4

1. is a shuriken (not bushido)

3. is a ninja kill move (not bushido)

4. pretends to be his 3 but for multiple enemies.(not bushido)

He is a ninja, not samurai.

No, he's not.  That's the problem.  He's not very Ninja-like.  He has a couple of the tools, but they're not very effective.

[Nazrethim]

8 hours ago, Nagisawa said:

No, he's not.  That's the problem.  He's not very Ninja-like.  He has a couple of the tools, but they're not very effective.

He is a ninja, not a realistic one, but he definetly qualifies. His tools are effective, but could use some extra work on them.

[Chroia]

So, I've been playing Ash a lot the last few weeks. (Blame the Kuva missions.)

Shuriken's slightly tighter banking is nice.

Smoke Screen's 'cast any time' is the unquestionable highlight of this pass.

Teleport's not hugely better than before, can't teleport to containers, grates, etc. but can and will get you stuck in Death Orbs, Ramparts, Earth Toxin Injectors.

Bladestorm's only use is on either on a tightly packed group of trash - if you don't have an AoE or pucnthrough weapon (tap 4, wave mouse wildly over group, untap 4), or on high eHP targets you can't use prompted finishers on. So, Oxium Ospreys, Bursas and bosses.
And no, I'm not using Covert Lethality.
Best results I've gotten have been: Invis, clear immediate area (Zenistar does this nicely), tap, highlight your target once, untap, repeat until dead.
Utterly meh.

Edited December 26, 2016 by Chroia

[-Shino-]

useless ult rework, its faster to run arround bashing "E" to clear the room.Squad always kill everyone before i can perform the ult on more than 4+  enemies :( 

[(XBOX)nastypuh]

I'm a ash and Loki player. Ash was a great frame as is loki but the rework having to aim for for your blade storm is annoying. I get that the old ash was overpowered but  This was a huge mistake for ash you made him boring to play and not really useful anymore. 

My idea: The old ash he would spawn about two to three other ash to help. So why not let him spawn in assassin letting them kill about 10 to 15 enemies but that it and let the ash that being controlled by us continue to fight. It would  resolve the issue with people that say they hate watching him in that animation. The target system that you have now doesn't need to be there cause the assassins find there targets. 

If you don't want to do that at least do a rework on loki to make the ash player that hate this rework happy too by making Loki have to target each person he want to disarm.

Edited December 26, 2016 by (XB1)nastypuh
Wrong words

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

I bet that whoever in that dev team field tested the target mechanics had some high speed chemicals running through their veins to deem this appropriate for release

[dodyouserious]

wow this tread is completely ignored 

[Nazrethim]

On 26/12/2016 at 5:07 PM, (Xbox One)nastypuh said:

If you don't want to do that at least do a rework on loki to make the ash player that hate this rework happy too by making Loki have to target each person he want to disarm.

Nah, just make it require clear LoS.

5 hours ago, xvxjiniwai said:

wow this tread is completely ignored 

Well, that's kind of the purpose of megathreads, but losing hope is not an option

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

3 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

 

Well, that's kind of the purpose of megathreads, but losing hope is not an option

How is that the purpose of a megathread? The feedback is requested and mostly negative as far as I can tell. Please enlighten me as to how this should be blatantly ignored by DE? I haven't spotted 1 reply to this thread from DE. Common sense dictates that they should at the very least have the decency to provide some feedback to all the negativity around this 'rework' as they opened it up for discussion no?

Not to mention selling an Ash Prime Access only to make him utterly useless the first chance they get.. Amazing how on the other hand they vaulted a Frost Prime and then buffed him into oblivion..... 

[Sashmaul]

Not that I think this will make the slightest difference as apparently Ash's rework is fine as is, which I cannot agree it is. 

I know that it has been mentioned for his ult to become a similar toggle ability to Excal and Valkyr and this is something i can get behind. I cannot see how this rework made Ash interactive with his ult as the cinematic was always the issue with Ash for me. 

Now with the toggle his weapons would of course be the wrist blades he uses in the cinematic, with this i dont want energy blades or throwing knives as to keep with his style. I would however like to keep the marking system just utilize it differently. This being that the marked enemies can be teleported to in order with each succesive teleport used and this would keep the cinematic so you can keep it up or stop at any time. 

Also still utilizing the marking system you can use his 1 (shuriken) to send homing style shurikens to marked targets which would stagger / stun the enemies hit, and also cause a slight cance to proc bleed status. 

I also like the idea that being in smoke screen would lower the energy cost, but i would also like there to be the stealth bonus applied to the toggled ability wrist blades. I am not sure if the bonus should be applied to the teleport cinematic but do think it should not break the stealth bonus either. 

Now while some may argue that then he Ash would need some invulnerability or armor increase to compensate for now being locked into the wrist blades, however i think that smoke screen will negate this need. I would prefer that while in his toggled state Ash gets a increase to his speed mainly movement but also attack speed if possible. 

Well this would be my preference anyway as then at least he would be interactive and fun to play. 

 

[Nazrethim]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

How is that the purpose of a megathread? The feedback is requested and mostly negative as far as I can tell. Please enlighten me as to how this should be blatantly ignored by DE? I haven't spotted 1 reply to this thread from DE. Common sense dictates that they should at the very least have the decency to provide some feedback to all the negativity around this 'rework' as they opened it up for discussion no?

Not to mention selling an Ash Prime Access only to make him utterly useless the first chance they get.. Amazing how on the other hand they vaulted a Frost Prime and then buffed him into oblivion..... 

Well, in theory a megathread is to get all the feedback together in one place DE can read. In practice what happens is that all negative/pointless/insane feedback gets mixed with the actual constructive and "doable" feedback, and the latter is not as abundant as the first.

Say player 61 makes a thread posting constructive feedback that DE could read, that thread is moved to the megathread, where it's lost to the ages buried under 100 posts of "you nerf it now it s^Cks I quit wf is deth". There goes good feedback into the trashcan.

Now to avoid the "derail" effect I will provide some good feedback (even though I just said it's totally pointless in a megathread)

 

Teleport on objects causes lots of issues and serves no purpose right now. Instead I suggest making teleport a tap/hold ability. tap for regular teleport-to-unit goodness and hold function to teleport to the location Ash is aiming. That would eliminate the problem of players getting stuck inside ramparts, blunts, etc etc.

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Nazrethim

[(PSN)vrykolacas82]

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

Well, in theory a megathread is to get all the feedback together in one place DE can read. In practice what happens is that all negative/pointless/insane feedback gets mixed with the actual constructive and "doable" feedback, and the latter is not as abundant as the first.

Say player 61 makes a thread posting constructive feedback that DE could read, that thread is moved to the megathread, where it's lost to the ages buried under 100 posts of "you nerf it now it s^Cks I quit wf is deth". There goes good feedback into the trashcan.

Now to avoid the "derail" effect I will provide some good feedback (even though I just said it's totally pointless in a megathread)

 

Teleport on objects causes lots of issues and servers no purpose right now. Instead I suggest making teleport a tap/hold ability. tap for regular teleport-to-unit goodness and hold function to teleport to the location Ash is aiming. That would eliminate the problem of players getting stuck inside ramparts, blunts, etc etc.

 

Thanks for this explanation. I'm rather new on posting so I had to ask. And you have a pretty point on the humongous amount of 'trash' feedback. I did however browse a lot and I honestly feel that most constructive feedback on a BS rework has already been handed out to DE over the last year in a huge variety.

If the end result subsequently turns out to be this current 'rework' then I am not at all surprised to see the mountain of raging feedback (Including my own I may add)

[Nazrethim]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)vrykolacas82 said:

Thanks for this explanation. I'm rather new on posting so I had to ask. And you have a pretty point on the humongous amount of 'trash' feedback. I did however browse a lot and I honestly feel that most constructive feedback on a BS rework has already been handed out to DE over the last year in a huge variety.

If the end result subsequently turns out to be this current 'rework' then I am not at all surprised to see the mountain of raging feedback (Including my own I may add)

Well, the result is actually the current rework, what Ash fans are still fighting for is for DE to not forget and leave Ash to rot, because there's still stuff to do on him (namely making Rising Storm worth the slot it takes, fixin Teleport getting you stuck on objects and being  generally an unwanted change and the passive being very underwhelming in general, though that's true for most passives except Nidus who got inmortality and a lot of stuff into his passive)

[TrinityPrime]

Ya, 85 pages now. I doubt any dev has the time or desire to go through 85 pages of opinions on a single change they made.

We've all been here before multiple times over the years, you have to accept it as it is and move on.