Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Shad0wWatcher]

On 12/23/2016 at 4:17 PM, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

Like this 😀 😂 lol

I still think that if they wanted to base Ash on the pop culture ninja that they should've taken inspiration from Oboro Hotsuma or Ryu Hayabusa(not in terms of character model but in terms of abilities)

[Somethinglurks]

They need to put in a new description for Ash's blade storm.  

Current -  Ash goes on a rampage, teleporting to and destroying nearby enemies.

 

New - Ash marks his targets, then goes on a rampage attempting to kill them before his team does.

 

 

[UrielColtan]

DE appear to be back at the office this week, be sure to remind them about this much more now.

[AKKILLA]

On 11/27/2016 at 10:55 PM, Insomniak said:

I love the changes made to Ash's Smokescreen... but this rework failed to solve the problem that it originally intended to solve: His ultimate is still broken. The McCree marking of targets makes the ability "more interactive," sure, but after that it still does the same thing as it did before the rework: You still have to sit through those non-interactive animations - not to mention there are other warframes that can do the same thing (i.e. clear the room with their ultimates) more efficiently. This cinematic combat mechanic needs to be scrapped. Realistically, it should probably function closer to Excalibur's or Valkyr's ultimates except following stealth theme and synergizing with his other abilities (smokescreen and/or teleport).

Maybe even pull the camera back so it's slightly isometric and let him engage in a freeflow melee combat similar to what you'll find in Shadow of Mordor, Assassin's Creed, or Arkham Asylum with his signature daggers. You could still let him teleport to targets if that makes things simpler, and apply finisher damage to hits or add to the melee combo or something. Maybe give stealth affinity bonus if he activated smokescreen beforehand. I'm just spitting out ideas at this point.

But basically, his 4 still needs work. And there's really no incentive to use his 1 either.

Yup!

Blade Storm should be a Stance, PERIOD!

I dont mean to sound arrogant more like I am sure its the best idea for it. This makes it synerigize with all his abilities and enhancing them in the process.

Shuriken will be visually larger and deal (X%) more damage, ash+2 clones fire one shuriken each=(3) enemies hit with shuriken become marked as now indicating they are under shurikens slash bleed proc. this will allow ash players to cast 3 (teleport) to insta track enemies and synergize between abilities.

Smoke Screen can provide an AoE cloud on the casted location (Ground Only) stunning/choking enemies opening them to finisher kills. Smoke Screen also allows ash to teleport to its location, allies also enter smoke shadow any time

Teleport now has 2 best friends and thats shuriken and smoke screen synergizing with both and giving Ash players something utilize in the battlefield.

Ashs Blade Storm should take into account Finisher/Slash damage along with his Clones that add to its flavor and unseen team for clearing areas quicker.

[OzoneSlayer]

Just give bladestorm the stealth affinity multiplier...

Edited January 4, 2017 by OzoneSlayer

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

3 hours ago, OzoneSlayer said:

Just give bladestorm the stealth affinity multiplier...

Not that this wouldn't make sense but it gets the combo multiplier?

[GTX49]

12 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

Yup!

Blade Storm should be a Stance, PERIOD!

I dont mean to sound arrogant more like I am sure its the best idea for it. This makes it synerigize with all his abilities and enhancing them in the process.

Shuriken will be visually larger and deal (X%) more damage, ash+2 clones fire one shuriken each=(3) enemies hit with shuriken become marked as now indicating they are under shurikens slash bleed proc. this will allow ash players to cast 3 (teleport) to insta track enemies and synergize between abilities.

Smoke Screen can provide an AoE cloud on the casted location (Ground Only) stunning/choking enemies opening them to finisher kills. Smoke Screen also allows ash to teleport to its location, allies also enter smoke shadow any time

Teleport now has 2 best friends and thats shuriken and smoke screen synergizing with both and giving Ash players something utilize in the battlefield.

Ashs Blade Storm should take into account Finisher/Slash damage along with his Clones that add to its flavor and unseen team for clearing areas quicker.

I already suggested this as this shows the real role of Ash

[AKKILLA]

10 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Not that this wouldn't make sense but it gets the combo multiplier?

Would Stealth Blade Storm Kills make sense to grant Stealth Affinity?

P.s. DE implement Stealth kills from blade storm dont alert enemies. Smh makes sense right?

Edited January 4, 2017 by AKKILLA

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

On 1/2/2017 at 3:34 PM, Shad0wWatcher said:

I still think that if they wanted to base Ash on the pop culture ninja that they should've taken inspiration from Oboro Hotsuma or Ryu Hayabusa(not in terms of character model but in terms of abilities)

Kudos to you sir! My thoughts to a T!

I have been saying exactly this for years now. How he teleports in this game is how Ash should do it. How fluid his movement/attacks are, is how Ash should do it. If you are going to make a Melee Martial Arts based frame in a ninja game with guns amd radial explosions, then you better make him damn good at what he does and fast to boot. 

P.S. Ash being the most ninja-like of the frames, his default Katana holster position should also be on his back, as Samurai more held their katanas at waist level (at least according to popular lore). Would also be cool if his passive allowed him to dual-wield one-handed katanas, but that's just my crazy idea.

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[Somethinglurks]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Kudos to you sir! My thoughts to a T!

I have been saying exactly this for years now. How he teleports in this game is how Ash should do it. How fluid his movement/attacks are, is how Ash should do it. If you are going to make a Melee Martial Arts based frame in a ninja game with guns amd radial explosions, then you better make him damn good at what he does and fast to boot. 

P.S. Ash being the most ninja-like of the frames, his default Katana holster position should also be on his back, as Samurai more held their katanas at waist level (at least according to popular lore). Would also be cool if his passive allowed him to dual-wield one-handed katanas, but that's just my crazy idea.

 

Miyamoto Musashi!?  Yes please.

[KingNoobsta]

On 12/25/2016 at 9:36 PM, Death_Master_ said:

No matter how many people here protect Ash nerf it made Ash less popular.

If before nerf average price was around 140-150pl for  Ash P set - now it is twice less meaning less people wish it.

But still Ash parts are a nice source of ducats for me, its all Ash is worth now IMO.

ofcourse. I have been to many other threads. people will literally start bashing others if they say "I dnt like this" and even ask others to "Leave the game" or "no one will miss u if u dont play". I have reported posts where people got personal as well. Toxic level as increased with the fanboy-base and its not really adding any value coz games are suppose to be fun. The cutscene should have been removed. And I'm sure I'll be bashed for posting this as well.

Edited January 4, 2017 by KingNoobsta

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Everything being said in this Megathread is basically all covered in my Ash Thread and has been for quite a while. This is all I have to say on the Ash Rework topic. 

[UrielColtan]

9 hours ago, GTX49 said:

I already suggested this as this shows the real role of Ash

 

21 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

Yup!

Blade Storm should be a Stance, PERIOD!

I dont mean to sound arrogant more like I am sure its the best idea for it. This makes it synerigize with all his abilities and enhancing them in the process.

Shuriken will be visually larger and deal (X%) more damage, ash+2 clones fire one shuriken each=(3) enemies hit with shuriken become marked as now indicating they are under shurikens slash bleed proc. this will allow ash players to cast 3 (teleport) to insta track enemies and synergize between abilities.

Smoke Screen can provide an AoE cloud on the casted location (Ground Only) stunning/choking enemies opening them to finisher kills. Smoke Screen also allows ash to teleport to its location, allies also enter smoke shadow any time

Teleport now has 2 best friends and thats shuriken and smoke screen synergizing with both and giving Ash players something utilize in the battlefield.

Ashs Blade Storm should take into account Finisher/Slash damage along with his Clones that add to its flavor and unseen team for clearing areas quicker.

That would be annoying. For one, Ash should throw at least two shurikens himself, if not more, if clones are involved at all then they should fire at least 2 individually as well. Maybe clones can appear by slightly stacking with shuriken kills, about as much as 3 or 4 perhaps. 

Second, I'd prefer a free roaming teleport over the mere targetting or marking nonsense. It would also be obnoxious to be teleported to anything hit by a shuriken just when I want to use it for traveling somewhere else. 

Third, why have Smokescreen stagger on the ground only? That's just nerfing Ash from the aerial cast he got, for no reason. Finisher kills for staggering enemies? Those are slow and just makes him barely any different from Excalibur, except not being able to fall back on the Exalted blade beam to mitagate slow as molasses finisher animations, When I smokescreen, I'm liking to quickly spin slice a group of mugs into chopped salad, not be haulted to perform slow finisher kills on enemies one at a time, and teleporting to to smoke clouds too now, adding more annoyance? Thats just moving the the problem also associate with slow bladestorm animation nonsense, to a new location yet again. Keep the damage multiplier for smoke screen and get rid of the soft nerf they put in with physically touching enemies resetting it, it's much faster and Ash should be more about speed. Would also prefer if smoke screen caused confusion after a stun anyway.

An Exalted Stance for bladestorm/4th ability is of course the right decision though, as I and others have pointed out.

Edited January 5, 2017 by UrielColtan

[Shad0wWatcher]

7 hours ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Kudos to you sir! My thoughts to a T!

I have been saying exactly this for years now. How he teleports in this game is how Ash should do it. How fluid his movement/attacks are, is how Ash should do it. If you are going to make a Melee Martial Arts based frame in a ninja game with guns amd radial explosions, then you better make him damn good at what he does and fast to boot. 

P.S. Ash being the most ninja-like of the frames, his default Katana holster position should also be on his back, as Samurai more held their katanas at waist level (at least according to popular lore). Would also be cool if his passive allowed him to dual-wield one-handed katanas, but that's just my crazy idea.

 

My thought's exactly, also to be fair the nikana bit can be fixed with the simple holster switch.

Bladestorm should've been a stance centering around Ash using his wristblades. It always struck me as odd that they give Ash such a weapon that's iconic to him in the game, yet the 1 ability that makes him use it...makes you barely see him use it. Sure it's supposed to be quick and efficient but again, if they wanted to go for the pop-culture ninja then they should've tried to go wild with the ideas on what they could've done with Bladestorm. His other abilities...while teleport is weird _{cause they gave what teleport should've been to our operator.}  But whatever, it's alright for now. 

With what's been done...i feel like it's a little lazy. The problem that many people had with Ash's Bladestorm was the enemy invincibility and the motion-sickness camera. With this nothing really changed other than it's targeting system. Which, while appreciated, feels like they just didn't really want to think too much about it and just rolled it out there cause they were tired of it. 

With that said, i wonder if they ever read through all these feedback comments. Sure some people here are basically saying "Goodbye Ash, nice knowing ya". A lot of the players here are actually posting some really great ideas which really should be noticed by at least 1 of the devs.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Shad0wWatcher

[(PSN)NoVa_Erk]

i would give him for the second and 3rd marks (for the clones) a energy efficiency from 10 (if invisible) to 5. the first one 10 the second and 3rd mark 5 energy cost. it is ridiculous how much energy it melts away.

[(PSN)NoVa_Erk]

On 18.12.2016 at 3:50 PM, (PS4)Knuckles2184 said:

All in all, I don't think his rework is bad, but one thing I would like to see changed about his blade storm is how vulnerable it leaves him while you're marking enemies. Yes it's true you can use smokescreen but even on a duration build it still doesn't last very long. Arcane trickery works great but normally you'd have to use bladestorm for it to activate. Any possibility of giving him a small invulnerability period while marking?

yes and after bladestorm a 4-5 second invulnerability because of his 2 clones that are walking 4-5 seconds around ash and reflect enemy fire and attacks to its sended places back.

this would be AWESOME and would synergize little more with the clones of ash. also it could be affected by duration mods.

PLS DE this would give him a good benefit because nezha, rhino and frost has abilities with unvulnerable times.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

On 16/12/2016 at 8:15 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

If you're only getting 10% of squad kills then the problem is you and not Ash. Personally I'm glad that  mindless spammers will move on to another frame.

By that logic, Ember`s 4th ability is a prob and should be de-buff and I think it should.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

If it was me, I would keep bs the way it was but with two changes; one enemies that are marked red can be killed by other players and two if you don`t want to see the animation press four again and you run around while the clones kill things, so the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not, that`s just common sense and it solves the problems that people had with bladestorm before the nerf.

[Somethinglurks]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

If it was me, I would keep bs the way it was but with two changes; one enemies that are marked red can be killed by other players and two if you don`t want to see the animation press four again and you run around while the clones kill things, so the animation is still there but you have a choice whether you want to watch the animation or not, that`s just common sense and it solves the problems that people had with bladestorm before the nerf.

Do this please!

[Hypernaut1]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

By that logic, Ember`s 4th ability is a prob and should be de-buff and I think it should.

WoF quickly becomes a CC ability as enemy's get higher in level, it doesn't need a nerf.

The old BS was overkill in early levels

[(PSN)Vexx757]

2 minutes ago, Hypernaut1 said:

 

The old BS was overkill in early levels

Same with ember.

[Hypernaut1]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

Same with ember.

No it's not.

[LuckySh0t501]

Ashes invis still feels a little stale. It's just an invisibility with a momentary knockback in a short radius. Why not make it a real smokescreen? In the meaning that Ash drops a smoke bomb that makes that area of affect (no too large, say 10m to 6m in radius with ash in the middle) non see-through. You know, a smoke bomb. Enemies caught in the blast are effectively blinded(some may be stuned, some just run in a random direction trying to escape the smoke) while the rest just can't see through the smoke. The smoke lasts not too long, say 3secs fixed. It's that little CC Ash needs. And make it recastable, with a cool-down so not to be spammed (maybe cool-down scales with duration? 8sec base stealth while 6sec base cool-down). And make the whole ability reset (save for the smoke) when entering a nullie bubble. Meaning you can recast it instantly(not affected by cool-down) when you leave the bubble. That would make him a little more ninja-ish,

Now my comment on the blade storm rework. Well, you got what you intended. One less press 4 to win frame. Though I think that it could have been done differently, there are many means to an end. The BS now is just too clunky to use. IMO ofc. The 4 spam could have been remedied by just making ash do his regular blade storm, his anger filled rampage that consumes all enemies AND all of his energy. You take away the casting cost and make ash lose all his energy for 5secs. The previous ability was the most bad-a$$ thing in warframe. I loved the "cheesy" cinematic.It was great. But c'est la vie.

Edited January 5, 2017 by LuckySh0t501
Grammar and stuff

[DEATHLOK]

Don't see many people playing Ash these days. There's a pretty good reason. The Nerf hammer just knocked the fun right out of the frame. I'll never use him again, unless he's actually fixed.

I have finally maxed out the Telos Boltace and was thinking how Ash's fourth ability should be something similar to the pulse generated by the spin attack of the Telos Boltace. Granted, some new animation is in order, but a spinning, line-of-sight attack with energy "blades" would allow for more interactivity than the slide slow animation players had actually complained about but was never addressed.

[Zaifarh]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2560 at 8:34 AM, Multicom-EN- said:

85 pages and not a single word from DE.

Edit: 86

And it's 87 now ATM I quoted this. Huh, poor DEs why did you create this feedback topic and do nothing? You can't figure it out? I've an advice for you. As you can see from all of the 87 pages of the topic. There are many people who dislike the new BS and some like. So, is it possible to add the old auto-lock function back? You may put the function on the BS augment mod. with this way, you can fix three issues at the same time!

1. People have choices between the new or old BS by just putting the mod. Don't have to create a whole new BS to make everyone happy. Because it's impossible.

2. With the new+old mechanic, the auto-lock function will has only 3 attacks cap on each foe. Fix the endless attacks issue on the old one.

3. The BS augment mod will finally worth to be put on a mod slot.

IMAO, you don't fix the new BS because you had spent a year made the dam new mechanic and you think it's already fine. But it's not!