Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Read from that post on down. Just some new ideas. You may have to reference some of our separate threads (mine and Nazzy's) to fully understand.

[Nazrethim]

We will never give up! :)

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

RIP ASH
whose powers was so great crabs pull it down until he is down the pit.
 

[sulusdacor]

this might have been already mentionend, but can smoke screen be made recastable?

ash carries obviously more then one smoke bomb, since you can just recast it right after it runs out. the need to wait for it to run out before you can refresh it makes it a pain to use. Especially with the augment for this ability, which is one of the few ways he can provide something for the team, the restriction to be by your team mate or be not able to use the ability, since you just did a few secounds ago. or run behind your team wait for the ability to run out so that you can use it near your team makes this not fun. it takes away the value the augment should provide.

fight on tenno.

[dodyouserious]

jesus man just fix ash already

[Somethinglurks]

On 2/19/2017 at 8:07 PM, Nazrethim said:

We will never give up! :)

 

[Malkav42]

I'm going to add what I posted in the Bladestorm FF thread.

My most played Frame is Ash. I love him aesthetically. He is the epitome of space ninja in my opinion.

 

It's called Bladestorm not teleport storm.

To differentiate it he could throw out a cloned version of his melee weapon and hit each target with it simultaneously. There is a lot of opportunity for scaling it and building in different ways here. For example if he was in stealth from Smoke Bomb when he executed number 4 he would get the stealth bonus. The cloned weapon could scale off the various mods, much like other frames have an attack/ability that scales off their melee, primary, or secondary. Think Mesa Peacemakers or Valkyr in Hysteria.

Another cool option would be that he actually created a Bladestorm! An area of effect that has a bunch of spectral blades flying about in a storm. Image how cool that would combo with his number 2 and 3. Press 3 to teleport to your main target, press 2 to stun everyone and go invis, press 4 to summon a storm of damage on all the stunned targets (maybe even scaling with the stealth bonus!).

There are a lot of options that would better than what we have right now (which is markedly worse than the old 4).

At the very least I would like to see it be an amped up version of his Number 1. Basically he would throw a shruiken at every target in LOS. To make sure it rewards skill it would seek the part of the body you were aiming at on a target under your reticle. You could still just spam it as you run for some aoe dmg, But if you stealthed and aimed a shot you would have a better chance of doing a nice room clear.

[Grahnz]

Energy consumption is definitely ridiculous  , that needs to be fixed asap.

[Ta10S]

Requiring too much time to activate BS is also problematic.
I think It's caused by DE's test situation. If they tested their rework only by solo mission, they can't realize the problem with co-op mission.

[brasteir]

I kind of abandoned bladestorm for teleport build or stealth build because bs was unfun but honestly, i could waste a slot on soma prime with hush and still kill them faster in stealth than i could with bladestorm.

and don't get me started on EMBER, why don't you go and make her 4 more interactive?? I'm tired of seeing that overgrown flaming chicken do 90% of the damage done in any given pub. 

Edited February 23, 2017 by brasteir

[GTX49]

3 hours ago, brasteir said:

I'm tired of seeing that overgrown flaming chicken do 90% of the damage done in any given pub. 

Lol

Anyway this rework was like a quick 'shut up about ash for a bit and have this nerf for another couple years to come before we finally fix him'

[ImagoMortis]

Why Ash 3 costs so much energy? I mean, why someone Will use It when a mark from the skill 4 costs alot less?

Edited February 24, 2017 by ImagoMortis

[Somethinglurks]

3 hours ago, ImagoMortis said:

Why Ash 3 costs so much energy? I mean, why someone Will use It when a mark from the skill 4 costs alot less?

If you use the augment with it and kill the target you use it on, it refunds 50% of the energy.

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Fatal_Teleport

Edited February 24, 2017 by Somethinglurks

[(PSN)ShuhanX]

22 hours ago, GTX49 said:

Lol

Anyway this rework was like a quick 'shut up about ash for a bit and have this nerf for another couple years to come before we finally fix him'

Pretty much. When you look at the effort put into the Limbo rework, not to mention their total silence about fixing Ash despite having almost 100 pages of mostly negative (but constructive) feedback, it's pretty clear they have no desire whatsoever to give him a proper rework and likely never did in the first place. 

At this point, I'd even accept them just plainly saying "we feel Ash is in a good place and no longer needs any changes", instead of just totally ignoring us all together. It'd be a bs response, but it's better than nothing imo. At the very least, they could acknowledge the feedback on some level, even if they have no intention of basing any decisions on it. But oh well, this is why I never post in the feedback threads for reworks. They seem like nothing more than a convenient tool used to compile the community's collective woes, so it's easier to ignore. But one can dream I suppose... 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

1 hour ago, (PS4)ShuhanX said:

Pretty much. When you look at the effort put into the Limbo rework, not to mention their total silence about fixing Ash despite having almost 100 pages of mostly negative (but constructive) feedback, it's pretty clear they have no desire whatsoever to give him a proper rework and likely never did in the first place. 

At this point, I'd even accept them just plainly saying "we feel Ash is in a good place and no longer needs any changes", instead of just totally ignoring us all together. It'd be a bs response, but it's better than nothing imo. At the very least, they could acknowledge the feedback on some level, even if they have no intention of basing any decisions on it. But oh well, this is why I never post in the feedback threads for reworks. They seem like nothing more than a convenient tool used to compile the community's collective woes, so it's easier to ignore. But one can dream I suppose... 

I concur, but be careful what you wish for, they may end up doing that. However, if they did do that, the crapstorm to follow would be immense, at least I hope so... it would also be the clearest presentation of the middle finger from the DEvs to the community (probably ever).

Edited February 24, 2017 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[Nazrethim]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

I concur, but be careful what you wish for, they may end up doing that. However, if they did do that, the crapstorm to follow would be immense, at least I hope so... it would also be the clearest presentation of the middle finger from the DEvs to the community (probably ever).

Perhaps that's why they have been avoiding commenting on this. They know they scr*wed up on this one, and they don't have the desire to fix their mess or deal with the wrath of the community for not doing so.

We don't lose hope, we only grow more and more dissapointed.

[Grahnz]

Someone did bring up that the update was titled as "Ash Revisted" meaning small changes. Limbo's complete overhaul is titled as "Limbo Rework" which is likely why the changes are so drastic. Hopefully Ash will be looked at again with a full rework.

You could always hold out for the rumored "damage 3.0" as well which would even the playing field. A lot of people claim Nidus is overpowered, but I feel how he scales late game is all how all the frames should properly scale. I only hope all frames will be adjusted to scale just as well.

[(PSN)ShuhanX]

9 hours ago, Grahnz said:

Someone did bring up that the update was titled as "Ash Revisted" meaning small changes. Limbo's complete overhaul is titled as "Limbo Rework" which is likely why the changes are so drastic. Hopefully Ash will be looked at again with a full rework.

You could always hold out for the rumored "damage 3.0" as well which would even the playing field. A lot of people claim Nidus is overpowered, but I feel how he scales late game is all how all the frames should properly scale. I only hope all frames will be adjusted to scale just as well.

So was Excalibur's. Referring to an update as a "revisit" is irrelevant to the effort expended on the Warframe. Using the word "rework" vs the word "revisit" was never an indication of how extensive any changes to any given Warframe are. This is evident, given the fact that the most extensive rework DE has ever done for a Warframe, was given an update title of "Excalibur Revisited". The most you could argue was that they only intended to touch BS and none of his other powers. And even then, such an argument falls short, at best. They suggested multiple times that they intended to change BS completely, not merely produce small tweaks to it. Regardless of what the update was titled, the changes did absolutely nothing to address the issues they promised they would. 

And how would waiting for damage 3.0 (which may or may not even come anymore) provide those disappointed with the changes any solace? Scalability was never an issue with Ash. Interactivity was. 

[Somethinglurks]

11 hours ago, (PS4)ShuhanX said:

Scalability was never an issue with Ash. Interactivity was. 

This is true, his damage is still present end game and has no problem killing enemies..... provided he is the only one attacking them. :D

[--RV--arm4geddon-117]

94 pages and 8 months to add a tweak to bladestorm post the "revisit" ( yayyyy you can chat while you're watching your bs movie now )

maybe at 200 pages of feedback and another 8 months they'll change Rising Storm augment since it's really obsolete thanks to drifting contact and or body count

rotfl

 

 

 

 

[Nazrethim]

7 hours ago, arm4geddon-117 said:

94 pages and 8 months to add a tweak to bladestorm post the "revisit" ( yayyyy you can chat while you're watching your bs movie now )

maybe at 200 pages of feedback and another 8 months they'll change Rising Storm augment since it's really obsolete thanks to drifting contact and or body count

rotfl

Oh, they changed Rising Storm with the revisit, they just made it useless cr*p. See, before revisit, Rising Storm actually increased Body Count, so you could get a 30s combo counter. The revisit just changed that to "here, have these pointless 3s counter" for no reason other than the general "scr*w you Ash"

I'm sure DE must be proud of their lazy and sh*tty job with Ash.

Edited February 27, 2017 by Nazrethim

[-CG-Aurigio]

DE, please re-look Ash. We love Ash and there are some great suggestions here for the Bladestorm rework.

[Somethinglurks]

The revisit was terrible.  Please give Ash the proper rework and love that you gave Excalibur.  

[Nazrethim]

95 pages. DE, stop ignoring us and at least gives us a word or two. We're not gonna quit, EVER.

[Shuuro]

I'm kind of sad. I've pretty much stopped playing Warframe because I feel so jipped. I can understand DE wanting to keep this current system. I totally get that it took resources and effort to make this new blade storm. I even gave suggestions to enhance this mark for death system to make it mesh better with our other abilities. It's in this very thread, glossed over and lost to time.

I'm just so sad DE. What happened to your vision? Your goals of wanting to make Warframe abilities synergize with each other? None of that can be seen with Ash. Hell, Shuriken was practically untouched if you ignore it's punch through. Why Shuriken when you can Teleport and use a finisher? Or just... single Target blade storm if that's your cup of tea? WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE OF THIS SKILL IN ANY KIND OF MID TIER PLAY!? If you need the argument that the augment for this skill makes it amazing then I'll argue back that the augment for teleport is even better as a "damage dealer".

You guys had this vision of making blade storm into some sort of... fast forwarded-high speed moving Ash that killed everything in a flash. What happened to that?

It's not like you guys are at a loss of creativity. The mark system looks awesome, but it plays extremely poorly. Nidus is a perfect example of what you guys are actually capable of! Even the recent look-at of Limbo looks surprisingly nice. I know you guys have creativity to spare, I may not have been here since the beginning, but I've been here since damage 1.0. Since Nekros was the hottest thing off the shelf. I HAVE SEEN what you guys are capable of... and to see you guys just drop the ball this hard... and it's not even just that. It almost feels like this entire fraction of the community is being ignored.

The Ash community has put up so much feedback, and suggestions in such a lengthy time-span, and none of it was even glossed over? Heck maybe it wasn't glossed over. Maybe you guys DID read through it all and just found it insufficient for what your vision had. But then I dare ask... what was that vision? What is the end goal here?

I could probably keep on going, rant endlessly about this, but I'm tired.

I am tired, and I am quite bitter and disappointed.

No, this isn't a "omg he thinks he's entitled to things because he's a founder". No. THIS, is me knowing that the Devs are capable of making amazing feats that I've seen no where else, and then they decided to, what seems to me, just "not". That's it. Just "not".

Ash is not Blade Storm.

Blade Storm is not Ash.

Please, from a long time player who knows that you devs are absolutely amazing at what you can do. I ask of you this.

Please re-think what you've done with the Ash "rework", or "revamp" or whatever it's called, and please. Give it some "proper" adjustments.

Thank you for your time for reading this rant of a tired Tenno.