DE, No More Frame Reworks Please. Just Stop

[Issxi]

Ever since Saryn you guys have made terrible decisions regarding reworks (sans Nekros). Saryn's abilities don't synergize the way they are supposed to, she can't survive in ANYTHING without the use of very specific setups, and now Ash's ultimate takes too long to even be useful at anything but Solo and even then he will get gunned down unless he uses his now mandatory Smoke Bomb.

I am honestly willing to accept the cheap and potentially broken aspects of frames you plan to rework if this is the kind of quality we are going to get in them. Take a very hard long think about what you've done wrong and rectify it or you will end up purposely ruining most of your frames.

Either change how you think about certain frames or stop reworking them. I'd rather have broken legacy frames than unusable reworked ones.

[TaintedGhost]

As i mentioned in another post from my point of view it would be rather useful to set "Cooldowns" for certain skills that are currently OP, than reducing there effectiveness.

In the End those Ultimates are their "Ultimates" they should do something awesome, just not being every second available. Thereby it would be easy to look at the current Metabuilds of the warframes and accelerate cds on those skills... wouldn't it? :o

[shut]

1 minute ago, BattlemageXankjeli said:

As i mentioned in another post from my point of view it would be rather useful to set "Cooldowns" for certain skills that are currently OP, than reducing there effectiveness.

In the End those Ultimates are their "Ultimates" they should do something awesome, just not being every second available. Thereby it would be easy to look at the current Metabuilds of the warframes and accelerate cds on those skills... wouldn't it? :o

They've tried this a long time ago, and while it sounds nice, it actually ended up being a spectacular failure.

The end result was players casting an ultimate and then hiding from the battlefield until it recovered. It greatly slowed down the pace of the game, which was the opposite of what they were going for.

[Issxi]

It is sad that it has come to this mindset to some people because I know DE's heart is in the right place, but they just aren't doing it right like they did for Ember as an example or Excalibur.

[_Vortus_]

Except some of us like the changes.    Ash could use a few tweeks still, but I like the changes from my time spent on Ash since the rework.    Then again, I like Saryn's changes as well.   If someone put in the time with Saryn and still does not like the changes, cool.   It has been out long enough players that play it will know one way or the other.  However, I suspect some didn't put in the time after the change, didn't like it initially, and put it on the shelf.   With Ash change, there is no way most players complaining have put in enough time with the new skill set to denounce it.    It took me a few hours of mission play and time in the simulcrum to figure out how it worked for me.   So far I like it.   Did have to change my builds, at least solo ones.   Squad builds had to alter how I play some, but still effective.   Also found some perks that I didn't take advantage of before.    Will I continue to like the changes, dunno.  But I do so far.

[Mingnit]

Well...my Saryn still destroys rooms on sorties...don't know about that "bad rework" mine is working just fine.

 

 

Oh wait...I don't just press 4 anymore, I also use 1, 2, 3, and of course 4. Maybe that's why...I should go back and use 4 all the time and complain how it's crap and it's no where as easy to use as it used to be. 

Ash just needs synergy, nothing else his 4 is where it should be.

[Keltik0ne]

6 minutes ago, Mingnit said:

 

Ash just needs synergy, nothing else his

4 is where it should be.

The problem with bladestorm was it locked the player in an animation sequence, created invulnerability frames that impede team mates and was considered very cheesy in the whole 1 button nukes a room regard.

The changes only looked at the last part, and even then all that was done was making it clunky and a bit reliant on smokescreen.

As far as reworks go, it was pointless.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Keltik0ne

[tnccs215]

Weren't you the one who complained how Saryn needed another rework and turned out it was you who had no idea how to build her?

Edited November 26, 2016 by tnccs215

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Going to have to disagree.  Just because they don't get reworks right immediately all the time doesn't mean they should quit trying.  Even if Ash isn't in a perfect spot yet I still agree with the direction they are going with it.  Many of the reworks exist because the kit lacked synergy or was a gimmick play (like spamming saryan's 4.)

Saryan's re work was VERY good.  The only thing that needs to be done with her is slightly more armor and a slightly bigger energy pool or energy cost reduction.  The way she works mechanically now is 10x better than her original kit.

 

You might be satisfied with dated kits that either remain too good to make new content relevant or get swept into mastery fodder.  Neither are good.  and DE should be actively trying to improve their game.  To suggest otherwise is just stupid.

[Noobverest]

7 minutes ago, Mingnit said:

Well...my Saryn still destroys rooms on sorties...don't know about that "bad rework" mine is working just fine.

 

 

Oh wait...I don't just press 4 anymore, I also use 1, 2, 3, and of course 4. Maybe that's why...I should go back and use 4 all the time and complain how it's crap and it's no where as easy to use as it used to be. 

Ash just needs synergy, nothing else his 4 is where it should be.

Whoopidy Doo.

 

Saryn rework is great because you have to press 2 1 4/ 3 2 1 4 instead of having to just press 4.

Wow. Such good rework. Much Amaze.

 

[Mingnit]

Just now, Keltik0ne said:

The problem with bladestorm was it locked the player in an animation sequence, created invulnerability frames that impede team mate and was considered very cheesy in the whole 1 button nukes a room regard.

The changes only looked at the last part, and even then all that was done was making it clunky and a bit reliant on smokescreen.

As far as reworks go, it was pointless.

Oh, I hate playing with a ash player and noticing that he takes forever to clean a room up, and yeah, you can't help him (kill everything) while he's there stabbing things and taking years to kill them.

[Deidaku]

But some frame desperately need some.

Ash as one of the oldest frames in game, of course hus abilities had to "change with the times"

 

ANd i'm pretty sure Ash is still useable...

[Noobverest]

1 minute ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Going to have to disagree.  Just because they don't get reworks right immediately all the time doesn't mean they should quit trying.  Even if Ash isn't in a perfect spot yet I still agree with the direction they are going with it.  Many of the reworks exist because the kit lacked synergy or was a gimmick play (like spamming saryan's 4.)

Saryan's re work was VERY good.  The only thing that needs to be done with her is slightly more armor and a slightly bigger energy pool or energy cost reduction.  The way she works mechanically now is 10x better than her original kit.

 

You might be satisfied with dated kits that either remain too good to make new content relevant or get swept into mastery fodder.  Neither are good.  and DE should be actively trying to improve their game.  To suggest otherwise is just stupid.

Instead of spamming 4, now you spam her 1.

Wow so different, holy crap it's a new world now.

I'm spamming 1 instead of 4.

VERY GOOD REWORK CONFIRMED, GOTTA SPAM ANOTHER BUTTON.

[Noobverest]

1 minute ago, Mingnit said:

Oh, I hate playing with a ash player and noticing that he takes forever to clean a room up, and yeah, you can't help him (kill everything) while he's there stabbing things and taking years to kill them.

Can't save stupid.

No one told Ash to stab an ancient (which has 90% ability resistance).

If you're talking about another mob, then the same problem still exists after the rework so it's still pointless, because the damage values weren't changed at all, and neither did the invul frames. So basically, Ash's rework is still pointless

[Mingnit]

1 minute ago, Noobverest said:

Whoopidy Doo.

 

Saryn rework is great because you have to press 2 1 4/ 3 2 1 4 instead of having to just press 4.

Wow. Such good rework. Much Amaze.

 

It seems you want a WF that kills things without you having to press anything, and yes much better to press multiple things, it feels like I deserve to kill things, and it's not a cheap press 4 to win crap that should have never been in the game in the first place.

Also, Saryn doesn't just kill everything just like that, I'm glad she got that rework, she needed it. Just stop crying out loud " I NEED MY EASY WF BACK " and move one, it's just a game.

[Noobverest]

1 minute ago, Mingnit said:

It seems you want a WF that kills things without you having to press anything, and yes much better to press multiple things, it feels like I deserve to kill things, and it's not a cheap press 4 to win crap that should have never been in the game in the first place.

Also, Saryn doesn't just kill everything just like that, I'm glad she got that rework, she needed it. Just stop crying out loud " I NEED MY EASY WF BACK " and move one, it's just a game.

You make it sound like Warframe is a hard game.....?

Warframe is still easy, I never relied on Ash's blade storm nor do I use Ash very often. That doesn't mean I have to like the rework. And I don't.

 

The rework sucks because DE stripped Ash of his only outstanding feature, and replaced it with an inefficient, killing ability that other frames can do better.

If you can't see that, go stick your head in the rabbit hole where you first pulled it out from.

[Mingnit]

5 minutes ago, Noobverest said:

Can't save stupid.

No one told Ash to stab an ancient (which has 90% ability resistance).

If you're talking about another mob, then the same problem still exists after the rework so it's still pointless, because the damage values weren't changed at all, and neither did the invul frames. So basically, Ash's rework is still pointless

Did I mention any ancients whatsoever? No.

[Hesyol]

Muahaha, no, no. Ash rework is an AWESOME thing and I really hope Ember is next. We don't need braindead gamplay and one-trick frames.

[Noobverest]

Just now, Mingnit said:

Did I mention any ancients whatsoever? No.

So you agree that the rework is pointless, because there was no damage buff to stop any Ash to continue holding mobs in place as he continues to make them invulnerable.

 

Yay.

[Mingnit]

Just now, Noobverest said:

You make it sound like Warframe is a hard game.....?

Warframe is still easy, I never relied on Ash's blade storm nor do I use Ash very often. That doesn't mean I have to like the rework. And I don't.

 

The rework sucks because DE stripped Ash of his only outstanding feature, and replaced it with an inefficient, killing ability that other frames can do better.

If you can't see that, go stick your head in the rabbit hole where you first pulled it out from.

As I said he needs synergy, thats it...

They also need to rework his other abilities to work much better with his 4th. It's a step in the right direction.

[Sirfol]

9 minutes ago, Noobverest said:

Instead of spamming 4, now you spam her 1.

Wow so different, holy crap it's a new world now.

I'm spamming 1 instead of 4.

VERY GOOD REWORK CONFIRMED, GOTTA SPAM ANOTHER BUTTON.

 

1 minute ago, Noobverest said:

You make it sound like Warframe is a hard game.....?

Warframe is still easy, I never relied on Ash's blade storm nor do I use Ash very often. That doesn't mean I have to like the rework. And I don't.

 

The rework sucks because DE stripped Ash of his only outstanding feature, and replaced it with an inefficient, killing ability that other frames can do better.

If you can't see that, go stick your head in the rabbit hole where you first pulled it out from.

you don't understand anithing about balace,1- saryn now don't need only 1 because it has sinergy with all of her other abilities, same for ash and smokescreen,2 - rework are needed and will happen, Miramulor is the next in line for the nerf bat, and i'm happy because i will be able to actually play with that frame in a party, now i can't because they are all spammersand i don't want to play a walking simulator.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

11 minutes ago, Noobverest said:

Instead of spamming 4, now you spam her 1.

Wow so different, holy crap it's a new world now.

I'm spamming 1 instead of 4.

VERY GOOD REWORK CONFIRMED, GOTTA SPAM ANOTHER BUTTON.

Lol.  Even though this is sarcasm it's still poorly done.  Pre patch saryn was 4.  Just 4.  nothing else was used.

Current saryn has you use 1 a lot yeah.  But you also use your 2 and 3 along with it.  and occasionally can use your 4 in combo in order to do amazing damage.

Try again.

[Circle_of_Psi]

4 minutes ago, Hesyol said:

Muahaha, no, no. Ash rework is an AWESOME thing and I really hope Ember is next. We don't need braindead gamplay and one-trick frames.

This

I'm a Ash Main and I love his Rework, only thing that needs to be changed, is that the Enmmys get friendly fire, when Ash is bladestroming, this will fix all issues with ASH.

[(XBOX)PompousNinja156]

2 hours ago, Xylyssa said:

Ever since Saryn you guys have made terrible decisions regarding reworks (sans Nekros). Saryn's abilities don't synergize the way they are supposed to, she can't survive in ANYTHING without the use of very specific setups, and now Ash's ultimate takes too long to even be useful at anything but Solo and even then he will get gunned down unless he uses his now mandatory Smoke Bomb.

I am honestly willing to accept the cheap and potentially broken aspects of frames you plan to rework if this is the kind of quality we are going to get in them. Take a very hard long think about what you've done wrong and rectify it or you will end up purposely ruining most of your frames.

Either change how you think about certain frames or stop reworking them. I'd rather have broken legacy frames than unusable reworked ones.

I think the main issue they have is overadjusting and underadjusting some reworks, especially overadjusting in a net nerf or underadjusting to the point where it was worthless to begin with, which makes me especially fearful for Limbo.

Aside from Mesa (and Saryn, who I have no opinion on), all the recent reworks were ruined by this over/under mix and mash.

Volt shield is now mobile but drains a truckload of energy. Volt's ult is a now CC tool that has a damage cap, so it breaks faster than you can apply it.

Mag lost her % based scaling for the ability to deal with armor (which needs a massive rework all of it's own), which would've been fine if enemy scaling had a wasn't exponential and ridiculous like it is now. She's be 100% useless if it weren't for some gimmicky weapon interactions, and by that point, you're better off using your gimmick weapon on a better frame.

Excalibur's Exalted blade changes were perfect....until they tacked on the energy cost for the slide attack for literally no reason, and to this day still don't allow you to at least use Body Count, forever dooming Exalted Melee in general to be worse than regular melee weapons you don't pay energy to use.

Trinity was nerfed to reduce cheese despite enemies still 1-shotting us through bugged shield mechanics and absurd scaling, only to basically play the exact same, but capped at 75% instead of 99%.

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

Going to have to disagree.  Just because they don't get reworks right immediately all the time doesn't mean they should quit trying.  Even if Ash isn't in a perfect spot yet I still agree with the direction they are going with it.  Many of the reworks exist because the kit lacked synergy or was a gimmick play (like spamming saryan's 4.)

The thing is, when they get it wrong, it tends to stay that way or they issue some bandaid fixes then leave it to decay for a year or two instead of frequently fine-tuning until they get everything into a fully functional state.

To date, they have implemented more band-aids than a children's hospital. There was literallly no reason to implement Body Count & Harkkonar Scope instead of readily admitting the three second window was a dumb idea and adding more time to it, and I wager we'll wait a year or two before they actually buff both timers to be 15 seconds default.

[Levi]

Is it actually stated anywhere that our fourth ability is an ultimate? Because I don't think I have read in-game that it is our "ultimate".

So why should it have a cooldown?