Can we please nerf Mirage + Simulor?

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

2 minutes ago, Fast_98 said:

How is it the weapon fault? Have you tried using it against a level 100 gunner or bombard? I takes you 15-20 sec for the bombard and 13-15 seconds to kill a gunner. It purpose it to get rid of trash enemies.

Now when I use my HoM build the time to kill a bombard went down to 5 seconds...she is the main reason that this gun consider op.

Nerf it to the ground and then 2 weeks start complaining about the new meta gun that she'll use. But never fix the root of the problem.

It's not about being able to kill a level 100 gunner. It's about 1 shotting every other level 100 in the room instantly leaving you with nothing to do but switch your weapon to take out the 100 gunner without spending a single energy point.

Compare that weapon to any of the self damage weapons in the game. Bigger blast radius? Check. No self damage? Check. Faster fire rate? Check. Better ammo efficiency? Check. 

There is literally no downside to the weapon and can compete with any other aoe damage weapon in almost any situation.

[Fast_98]

Just now, ChuckMaverick said:

It's not the Simulor's fault or Mirage's fault, but the interaction between the two of them.

The fact that the majority of a Simulor's damage comes from orbs merging, together with Hall of Mirrors firing multiple orbs at the same time, scales the damage far higher than it would be with Mirage and any other weapon.

Yeah that what I mean Mirage increase this gun damage like crazy because of Eclipse and HoM. No other gun acts like the simulor so fixing the interaction between the 2 should be an easy fix literally just make it so that clone orbs can't interact with the other clones orbs. Done you'll practically never see the simulor in a mirage ever again.

[ChuckMaverick]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

There is literally no downside to the weapon and can compete with any other aoe damage weapon in almost any situation.

There are downsides to the Simulor, although I accept that they are not overwhelming.

• It can only fire at a fixed range, cannot fire any further and is awkward for closer targets or when moving fast
• You need at least two shots to do any damage at all (unless Mirage)

[Fast_98]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

It's not about being able to kill a level 100 gunner. It's about 1 shotting every other level 100 in the room instantly leaving you with nothing to do but switch your weapon to take out the 100 gunner without spending a single energy point.

Compare that weapon to any of the self damage weapons in the game. Bigger blast radius? Check. No self damage? Check. Faster fire rate? Check. Better ammo efficiency? Check. 

There is literally no downside to the weapon and can compete with any other aoe damage weapon in almost any situation.

Enemies can easy stagger out of range and ground pound/shoot you  before you do anything. Enemies can shoot you from far and destroy you if they come to close (can't make a vortex in time). In high levels yo'ur not fighting one heavy at a time and the second 2 or more come the synoid simulor is practically useless. This thing is a choke/defenses weapon that it. 

How the  is self damage going to work when you're firing range is less then the vortex range? 

Edit: All self damage weapons are ammo efficient my penta has 30 rounds and it easy to refill.

        It radius is it selling point as the regular version does more damage but sucks in range and that why the regular version is  considered fodder. Plus firestorm doesn't increase the range. The max the range could be nerfed  by 25% or make it so that it can't chip through walls.

This things need firerate or it can't pump out any damage at all. It has a timer on it while guns like the zarr and penta do damge in contact and can kill that level 100 gunner and everything around it 2-3 shots.

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Fast_98

[PATRICKTHEGREAT]

We dont need to nerf stuff just because someone dont like it.

There are people who loves it.

If u cant bear it, go play solo or get a squad that's specifically "mirage-simulor clean."

[(XBOX)thespacemeister]

Trying to remain impartial so I am not saying it should be needed but nerf could be ammo is drained by clones as well.

[Currilicious]

It's really amusing how the elephant in the room, which is the Synoid Simulor, drags Mirage into the hate.

Derp #1: HOM is imba cuz 4 gunszz!!1one1eleven

Derp #2: Mirage melts everything >9000 imba OP <cries>.

Derp #3: Nerf plxplzplz, cuz chheeeessseee...

It doesn't matter which frame uses it. With multishot and fire rate boost you will still wipe rooms with a couple of well placed shots.

The argument can be made that this is a MR 12 gun, but then all the other MR 12 syndi guns do no such thing.

Thing is I don't want to see anything nerfed either. But the problem here is the Simulor.

Mirage isn't the problem. If anything it is a pretty balanced frame power wise post Prism nerf.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Currilicious

[Roachester]

So has anyone actually come up with a good reason as to why the HoM/Simulor combo shouldn't get the hammer?

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, S0V3REiGN said:

I honestly don't know if we are playing the same game, I run into simulor mirages all the damn time. I honestly don't remember the last time I saw one without a simulor and she still melts anything heavily armored past level 120.

Yep.  Trending heavily upwards in my experience.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

1 hour ago, fahrezaa11 said:

I love Mirage . don't nerf please

A 1% drop in damage per clone won't kill her, and would scale her into meta much better.

Without trying, Mirage has become a Litmus test for balance, scaling, and power creep due to the synergistic nature of her powers and weapons.

 See my above post about what they repeatedly did to my Volt's shield, and Saryn's Miasma, and Excaliber's EB, and Trinity's...you get the point.  She would be fine.

Edited December 6, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Callback]

Increase the magazine size and have it eat 5-10 ammo per shot.

 

Good luck getting enough mutation to use it.

[EverdarkRaven]

While we are on the train of nerfing frames because they are not fun to play with when using certain frames.

Can we please nerf Inaros. Either take away his life steal or lower his maximum HP. As a Trinity it isn't fun having one member of the team not need healing. 

Can we please nerf Forst? His Avalanche makes playing as Nezha not as fun because he kills things before Divine Swords can. 

Can we please nerf Loki, I feel useless as an Ash in spy missions with Loki teammates. 

Can we also nerf Zenurik's energy regen. When I am playing EV Trinity, I would like to be the only source of energy.

Thx.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Skyeborne

[Currilicious]

I think it is only the ones that's been playing games long enough to understand when armchair game designers demand for something to be changed, the experienced gamers can almost be certain the results won't be pretty. In the end, what you get is only disappointed people. Some will rant at a change that affected them negatively. Some will suffer in silence whether by choice or because of the need to feel vindicated. I guess, it's only human nature to want to pursue conformity whether by persuasion or coercion.

[(PSN)TheANSER-42]

On 12/5/2016 at 9:47 AM, Nazrethim said:

Well, that was a feature of old Blade Storm, it both killed and had some CC attached to it. Clearing the area of enemies is good, but flat out ignoring the bleeding player is a very different thing, which is something that happens regularly, the Miramulor goes around kiling and hopes the others (who may or may not be 1km away) go and do the revive stuff, instead of casting a prisma and use the opportunity to rezz. Right now Mirage is in the same position  Bladespam Ash was, so you must have an idea of what's to come.

So many parallels with Ash, this time with Smoke Shadow, the augment rarely used due to lack of range and that usual bladespammers had zero duration.

"Rework" is the key word here. DE needs to nerf HoM offensive potential with AoE weapons and make up for it by improving her other abilities.

Simple. nerd aoe weapons on her a bit and make all projectiles fire at one place.

[(PSN)TheANSER-42]

2 hours ago, (XB1)thespacemeister said:

Trying to remain impartial so I am not saying it should be needed but nerf could be ammo is drained by clones as well.

It should be depleted based on the base damage of each clone. ex (if each clone deals 25% damage. then each clone shot will take one extra ammo (because 4 clones.)) extra shots will be taken from reserves  not mage zine. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by (PS4)TheANSER-42
I made typos

[(XBOX)thespacemeister]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)TheANSER-42 said:

It is depleted based on the base damage of each clone. ex (if each clone deals 25% damage. then each clone shot will take one extra ammo (because 4 clones.)) extra shots will be taken from reserves  not mage zine. 

K tbh I don't have mirage ? So I didn't know lol

[(PSN)TheANSER-42]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)thespacemeister said:

K tbh I don't have mirage ? So I didn't know lol

Sorry. that was misleading. that was a suggestion. it doesn't actually work that way. sorry.

[DxAdder]

1 hour ago, Currilicious said:

I think it is only the ones that's been playing games long enough to understand when armchair game designers demand for something to be changed, the experienced gamers can almost be certain the results won't be pretty. In the end, what you get is only disappointed people. Some will rant at a change that affected them negatively. Some will suffer in silence whether by choice or because of the need to feel vindicated. I guess, it's only human nature to want to pursue conformity whether by persuasion or coercion.

And we will just move on to using the next Meta Set -up and the same people will still only be doing 1% damage in a mission.

 

[Aesthetic_Dialectic]

3 hours ago, Fast_98 said:

Enemies can easy stagger out of range and ground pound/shoot you  before you do anything. Enemies can shoot you from far and destroy you if they come to close (can't make a vortex in time). In high levels yo'ur not fighting one heavy at a time and the second 2 or more come the synoid simulor is practically useless. This thing is a choke/defenses weapon that it. 

How the  is self damage going to work when you're firing range is less then the vortex range? 

Edit: All self damage weapons are ammo efficient my penta has 30 rounds and it easy to refill.

        It radius is it selling point as the regular version does more damage but sucks in range and that why the regular version is  considered fodder. Plus firestorm doesn't increase the range. The max the range could be nerfed  by 25% or make it so that it can't chip through walls.

This things need firerate or it can't pump out any damage at all. It has a timer on it while guns like the zarr and penta do damge in contact and can kill that level 100 gunner and everything around it 2-3 shots.

 

Not to mention it does magnetic damage, which starts to bite you in the a** the higher level you go. It's just how it interacts with mirage.

I'd say just don't allow her clones to shoot the Simulor at all. Just make it not work. It sucks, and people will be pissed, but the gun is mastery rank twelve, the highest in the game so far. It has to remain good to justify the farming, platinum and/or time investment to get it. The gun sits at a delicate balance between being as good as it is, and one of the worst guns in game.

If you want to make the gun a little more skill based, then put all the damage into detenting the orbs instead. But that will make an already slow weapon even slower on everyone except mirage, who is your real problem.

[ColPresumptuous]

Calling for Nerfs in a PvE game... *sigh*

 

Because your place in the end of mission score board is what matters right?... right!? Heck Im kinda happy when a Sim+mirage is in my group, means i can sit back and take a break for once.

 

Quote

So has anyone actually come up with a goodreason as to why the HoM/Simulor combo shouldn't get the hammer?

Because its a PvE team based game where everyone's on the same side working towards the same goal in the fastest, most efficient manner possible? So who gives a flying twig if some combos of WF and weapons make epeens deflate? (And no i dont play Mirrage).

Edited December 6, 2016 by ColPresumptuous

[Aesthetic_Dialectic]

4 minutes ago, ColPresumptuous said:

Calling for Nerfs in a PvE game... *sigh*

 

Because your place in the end of mission score board is what matters right?... right!? Heck Im kinda happy when a Sim+mirage is in my group, means i can sit back and take a break for once.

This game is brainless as is, you can't pretend playing this game isn't taking a break as is. I practice speaking Japanese while playing this game. Because this game takes so little mental effort I can do that intensive of a task. Let's all be honest here.

Edited December 6, 2016 by silkygoodness

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

personally im still not on board for a nerf of this , rather a rework of its mechanics

i dislike playing with mirage syms though, many purposefully try to take all kills.... is a bit annoying

 

 

[ColPresumptuous]

2 minutes ago, silkygoodness said:

This game is brainless as is, you can't pretend playing this game isn't taking a break as is. I practice speaking Japanese while playing this game. Because Japanese takes far more mental effort than this game. Let's all be honest here.

Yeah but threads like this are like some guy on a soccer team *@##&#036;ing to his coach that his teams goalie is too good and has to have his legs broken to make him feel better.

I play Equinox in Maim with a Zarr or Simulor, Every mission im in the 60%+ damage dealt with enemies killed usually 2-3 times larger than the next highest kill count on the sqaud... Am I the next one to be called out for a nerf when Mirrage and  simulor are nerfed? See where this sort of thing goes, and its a PvE game, I dont care if theres a frame with a perma toggle tactical nuke that kills level 100's before they even spawn... id be happy to have him in my mission.

These sort of threads remind me of other MMO's where you have various DPS classes or support classes in PvE environments yelling for nerfs of others since they feel like they are over looked or not as strong, thing is in Warframe with the way it works, everyones good and capable, some combos are just more good than others... so really I just dont understand the mentality for calling for a nerf... in the last 3 days ive had a total of 2 mirrage simulor players in my Sqauds... I mean, is that really a problem for some people?

Also brainless is relative, as a guy in his late 30's with dwindling reflexes and slowing mental capabilities (comapred to 20 years ago) sure WF isnt hardly rocket science level of a challenge but its hardly a breeze and sometimes i gotta carry the team even.

If you find it a dawdle, why do you even play?.. there are far more challenge games out there.

[Aesthetic_Dialectic]

10 minutes ago, ColPresumptuous said:

Yeah but threads like this are like some guy on a soccer team *@##&#036;ing to his coach that his teams goalie is too good and has to have his legs broken to make him feel better.

I play Equinox in Maim with a Zarr or Simulor, Every mission im in the 60%+ damage dealt with enemies killed usually 2-3 times larger than the next highest kill count on the sqaud... Am I the next one to be called out for a nerf when Mirrage and  simulor are nerfed? See where this sort of thing goes, and its a PvE game, I dont care if theres a frame with a perma toggle tactical nuke that kills level 100's before they even spawn... id be happy to have him in my mission.

These sort of threads remind me of other MMO's where you have various DPS classes or support classes in PvE environments yelling for nerfs of others since they feel like they are over looked or not as strong, thing is in Warframe with the way it works, everyones good and capable, some combos are just more good than others... so really I just dont understand the mentality for calling for a nerf... in the last 3 days ive had a total of 2 mirrage simulor players in my Sqauds... I mean, is that really a problem for some people?

Also brainless is relative, as a guy in his late 30's with dwindling reflexes and slowing mental capabilities (comapred to 20 years ago) sure WF isnt hardly rocket science level of a challenge but its hardly a breeze and sometimes i gotta carry the team even.

If you find it a dawdle, why do you even play?.. there are far more challenge games out there.

I play this game when I don't want a challenge. This game is like taking a break from life. When I want a challenging game I play something else. Like Bloodborne. Warframe exists to be chill AF for me so I can talk to my friend Jordan and we(both being artists) can show off our new color schemes and such, talk while farming, or practice Japanese while farming.

The point is mirage Simulor prevents people from playing the game at all. The game might be easy but people ACTUALLY WANT TO PLAY IT. Seeing a mirage with a Simulor just take care of everything is like playing MTG only to watch a time sieve, splinter twin or storm combo go off. You aren't playing and quite frankly I want to play the game. This isn't the military where we need optimal strategies to defeat the enemies, if it was it would be hurl meteors from space at the grineer simulator. Or launch a controlled nukes from space simulator. Which would be boring as piss. This is a game after all. Interactivity is part of games believe it or not.

No we don't necessarily need a nerf perse, but we do need to fix the problem so people can play the game. Getting 60% of the damage done is not even close to being bad, and assuming your playstyle would be nerfed next is using the slippery slope logical fallacy. Just because one thing happens doesn't mean it will all go down hill from there. That's absurd.

Edited December 6, 2016 by silkygoodness

[(PSN)Silverback73]

3 hours ago, Skyeborne said:

While we are on the train of nerfing frames because they are not fun to play with when using certain frames.

Can we please nerf Inaros. Either take away his life steal or lower his maximum HP. As a Trinity it isn't fun having one member of the team not need healing. 

Can we please nerf Forst? His Avalanche makes playing as Nezha not as fun because he kills things before Divine Swords can. 

Can we please nerf Loki, I feel useless as an Ash in spy missions with Loki teammates. 

Can we also nerf Zenurik's energy regen. When I am playing EV Trinity, I would like to be the only source of energy.

Thx.

Or Play Meta Spamulor Mirage and make ALL the above frames irrelevant, period, with the exception of spy and a few others...Just a counterpoint.  No other frame besides Mirage can make entire squads irrelevant.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2016 by (PS4)Silverback73