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secondary autos


Loxyen
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Getting killed by a puncture secondary e.g. Furis (especially MK1 Furis) is letting me die inside every time. It feels like the one who killed me did this once my shields are down or just landed a few accidental crossfire hits.

The MK1 Furis has ~20 puncture dmg and does 29 total dmg. Put a puncture conversion mod on and you'll do something around 35 on pure hp. <-This with a gun that has a mag of 35 rounds, a fire rate of 8.33 and a reload time of 1.4 seconds (holster reload mod beside). 

With that you just need two or three hits to finish light and mid Warframes once their shields are gone (usually including some hp on the shield breaking hit) which is way to easy to do with stats like that. You just have to hold down LMB and eventually wipe your crosshair over the opponents model to kill.

Pytha told me: "autos also take skill. different skill set than your bow or sniper play."

So I'd suggest to lower the dmg and increase the fire rate of those puncture auto secondaries. The ttk is preserved and ppl with tracking skill still have the chance to shine while accidental hits won't be such devastating blows as they are atm.

Edited by Loxyen
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Perhaps your post title could reflect your specific gripe of the single Furis series?

Not all secondary autos are equal, I use Akstilleto due to being bored with Furis and it's versatility with Impact bias, amongst some utility in the form of fast reload and decent burst accuracy. 

 

I do agree with your issue though.

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This is ridiculous.
The Furis series is meant to serve as finishers, obviously they'll seem more impressive when you only consider them against health.

The MK1-Furis deals 241.57 DPS. Fire rate 8.33, mag size 35, reload 1.4, accuracy 15.4.
The Furis deals 250 DPS. Fire rate 10.00, mag size 35, reload 1.4, accuracy 15.4.
The Akzani deal 280 DPS. Fire rate 20.00, mag size 100, reload 2.0, accuracy 8.7.
The Akstiletto deal 290 DPS. Fire rate 10.00, mag size 28, reload 1.1, accuracy 23.5.

Are we done here?

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15 minutes ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

This is ridiculous.
The Furis series is meant to serve as finishers, obviously they'll seem more impressive when you only consider them against health.

The MK1-Furis deals 241.57 DPS. Fire rate 8.33, mag size 35, reload 1.4, accuracy 15.4.
The Furis deals 250 DPS. Fire rate 10.00, mag size 35, reload 1.4, accuracy 15.4.
The Akzani deal 280 DPS. Fire rate 20.00, mag size 100, reload 2.0, accuracy 8.7.
The Akstiletto deal 290 DPS. Fire rate 10.00, mag size 28, reload 1.1, accuracy 23.5.

Are we done here?

I don't think you went down the rabbit hole far enough. Might need to get into shield vs health vs armor.

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1 hour ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

This is ridiculous.
The Furis series is meant to serve as finishers, obviously they'll seem more impressive when you only consider them against health.

The MK1-Furis deals 241.57 DPS. Fire rate 8.33, mag size 35, reload 1.4, accuracy 15.4.
The Furis deals 250 DPS. Fire rate 10.00, mag size 35, reload 1.4, accuracy 15.4.
The Akzani deal 280 DPS. Fire rate 20.00, mag size 100, reload 2.0, accuracy 8.7.
The Akstiletto deal 290 DPS. Fire rate 10.00, mag size 28, reload 1.1, accuracy 23.5.

Are we done here?

nope it still can kill with with 2-3 hits once the shield is gone. And a lot of those appear rather coincidentally for sure.

It is not rare to see ppl using the furis over the (most times impact) primary weapon to crush shields too. Because it does that much dmg each hit. And once they fail with the primary they just change to holding lmb and eventually hit high dmg auto rounds. Just imagine the Lex series would have 1.0 more fire rate in comparision.

Thats why a change would be welcome. suggestions too

Edited by Loxyen
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Is this just another veiled automatics hate thread?

Compare it e.g. with an Aklato with a Puncture mod, it has IPS: 4.2/14/16.8, same fire rate, slightly lower magazine.

Against 55A, which a lot of light/medium Warframes have:

Aklato: (4.2 * 0.8 * 300 / 355) + (14 * 1.5 * 300 / 327.5) + (16.8 * 1.0625 * 300 / 363.25) = 36.82 which is rounded to 37.

By comparison, Mk1-Furis with a Puncture mod should net you 35.68 against 55A, which is rounded to 36.

(if I did this right)

 

=> Less damage to health, of course much less damage to shields (Aklato not as Puncture heavy), and on top the auto vs. semi lowered headshot multiplier of 1.2 instead of 1.5.

Edited by Kontrollo
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On 12/9/2016 at 5:06 PM, Loxyen said:

Getting killed by a puncture secondary e.g. Furis (especially MK1 Furis) is letting me die inside every time. It feels like the one who killed me did this once my shields are down or just landed a few accidental crossfire hits.

The MK1 Furis has ~20 puncture dmg and does 29 total dmg. Put a puncture conversion mod on and you'll do something around 45 on pure hp. <-This with a gun that has a mag of 35 rounds, a fire rate of 8.33 and a reload time of 1.4 seconds (holster reload mod beside). 

With that you just need two or three hits to finish light and mid Warframes once their shields are gone (usually including some hp on the shield breaking hit) which is way to easy to do with stats like that. You just have to hold down LMB and eventually wipe your crosshair over the opponents model to kill.

Pytha told me: "autos also take skill. different skill set than your bow or sniper play."

So I'd suggest to lower the dmg and increase the fire rate of those puncture auto secondaries. The ttk is preserved and ppl with tracking skill still have the chance to shine while accidental hits won't be such devastating blows as they are atm.

I've been saying this for Odin knows how long. I wouldn't have too much of a problem with this gun if it didn't have a high mag size.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12.12.2016 at 0:44 AM, Kontrollo said:

Is this just another veiled automatics hate thread?

Compare it e.g. with an Aklato with a Puncture mod, it has IPS: 4.2/14/16.8, same fire rate, slightly lower magazine.

Against 55A, which a lot of light/medium Warframes have:

Aklato: (4.2 * 0.8 * 300 / 355) + (14 * 1.5 * 300 / 327.5) + (16.8 * 1.0625 * 300 / 363.25) = 36.82 which is rounded to 37.

By comparison, Mk1-Furis with a Puncture mod should net you 35.68 against 55A, which is rounded to 36.

(if I did this right)

 

=> Less damage to health, of course much less damage to shields (Aklato not as Puncture heavy), and on top the auto vs. semi lowered headshot multiplier of 1.2 instead of 1.5.

....

On 13.12.2016 at 11:12 PM, Nocturnex said:

I've been saying this for Odin knows how long. I wouldn't have too much of a problem with this gun if it didn't have a high mag size.

^this

lets see how the new changes are

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On 22.12.2016 at 3:23 PM, Loxyen said:

....

^this

lets see how the new changes are

 

The point of doing the math there was in response to this:

On 9.12.2016 at 11:06 PM, Loxyen said:

Put a puncture conversion mod on and you'll do something around 45 on pure hp. <-This with a gun that has a mag of 35 rounds, a fire rate of 8.33 and a reload time of 1.4 seconds (holster reload mod beside). 

 

I mean you could've just asked for how much damage it deals to health. Why do you come here and spread misinformation instead?

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On 30.12.2016 at 2:46 PM, Kontrollo said:

 

The point of doing the math there was in response to this:

 

I mean you could've just asked for how much damage it deals to health. Why do you come here and spread misinformation instead?

thinking-face.png

Because I was misslead by such stuff. HP were dropping on instant for the value of 2 hits at least. Input lag or something?  I had situations in which you got hit once but in real ate 2 bullets, or got hit twice but ate 3 or 4 bullets. I mean cmon this is Furis not AKzani.

I also asked how much he dealt each hit and he wrote 45 (probably typefail.. it was 34)

 

But this dosen't change my point. Those big mags were just to much.

Edited by Loxyen
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9 hours ago, Loxyen said:

 

Because I was misslead by such stuff. HP were dropping on instant for the value of 2 hits at least. Input lag or something?  I had situations in which you got hit once but in real ate 2 bullets, or got hit twice but ate 3 or 4 bullets. I mean cmon this is Furis not AKzani.

I also asked how much he dealt each hit and he wrote 45 (probably typefail.. it was 34)

 

But this dosen't change my point. Those big mags were just to much.

There were ~5 frames between the first tick of damage and the second tick of damage being seen on your healthbar.

Assuming that's a 30fps gif, that's ~80ms later. Delay between shots of a furis at 10 rof is 100ms. Given the general inaccuracy of measuring frames between shots on a low fps gif... looks normal to me.

6 frames at 30fps = 100ms

Edited by Pythadragon
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