My personal Apology to the Fans

[(PSN)BMWWOW]

Never bought any of your skins, but DAMN are you Talented Bro!!!
My gf who has worked in the game industry says you are an excellent Concept Artist, and I just plain ol' think your artwork rocks.

Let us know if you design / work for other avenues.  :)

Just curious - does DE pay you for skins they use that you designed?

Also - PM me personally if you ever start doing Prints of your artwork.  I would probably get one for me gf, who likes your art and does not even play WF.  :) :) :)

[SicSlaver]

On 15/12/2016 at 1:55 AM, IgnusDei said:

...Actually, the disc on the shoulder was my idea.

But hey, while we're on the subject of Banshee — see that butterfly knot on her flank? Well, nobody else saw it, and assumed it was a garter. In fact, I imagined Banshee to be wearing a black bustier under the blue dress, with the sides cut and held together with crisscrossing cords that ended with those knots. Key word here is imagined - I didn't show that off in the final product. Oh well :/

I noticed and adamantly complained about how they missed it in their modelling and attention to that detail. I don't understand how they don't even notice her dress is supposed to be torn and should have kept that theme going for the back of her dress as well. I can understand your frustration.

Edited December 18, 2016 by SicSlaver

[Fylas]

If the ember skin has the weird head scythe thing drooping into her sight like in the revision that's a no buy, if that's properly re-positioned  so I don't go "that would so block part of her view" every time I turn the camera it all comes to the elbow tumor thing, if it clips that tennogen Kronen tonfa skin, I won't get it either, but if those 2 things are fixed? I get the skin cause it still has quite a bit of the original appeal then. :O those are the 2 -improvements-  that break the deal for me X_X 

[SicSlaver]

It's not like I have a problem with revisions or compromises, but to tack on your own without consulting the original artist to do the revisions himself with an explanation and what not of what you'd like changed. These reasons upset me and why I avoided buying the Banshee skin and regret buying the Loki one as well.

[SilentMobius]

I don't have an opinion on the Ember skin changes, other than there is more to a Warframe than a 2D concept.

Personally I agree that if an external contractor is giving you grief on what you do with work-for-hire then the only option is to stop requesting work from them.

Regardless of the 2D technical quality of the work I don't think the loss of these concepts is much of a loss for the game.

I look forward to seeing what DE replace these with.

[CaptainBossFace]

I must admit, the Rhino Palatine skin is what has and possibly will always make Rhino my favorite Warframe. Although I am saddened to see you wont be working with DE. All I can say is: God speed you magnificent son of a *@##$!

[Volinus7]

I think I need gundam V-fin on my warframe's head.

[Fylas]

13 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

I think I need gundam V-fin on my warframe's head.

then you use the blade shield together with the velocitus and you just need the right colorsheme for archwing XD, speaking of archwing is that gonna get a revamp after the dojo thing/ infested door reveal? because having a shield you can't block with is pretty "dumb +12". 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Fylas
Apparently the Ret word is a booboo >_>

[lukshu]

I'm sad to there there won't be any more of your Skins, I really loved them, but one can't undo things one did in relationships.

I'm kind of sad how part this community reacts too though. If the artist is unhappy what is done with his work ok, but that's it.This is a professional relationship and it's not 'rude' to work the way you see fit with the art you payed for. This is DEs game and they have to decide what exactly fit's in their vision, their game.

Of course you don't have to like DE's decision, just like some allready said you don't have to buy the skin, if you don't like it. Personally I really dislike what DEs artists did with that bulb on her left arm...but I love the skirty part, I thought the original concept looked really empty there. About the thing on her head...I'm not so sure. It looks wierd in that angle, but it kind of fits in seen from behind so I'm waiting for the aktual skin to see.

Edited December 18, 2016 by lukshu
spelling horrors

[HedgeEis]

Noo, I'll never get a sweet Nidus deluxe skin now.

Frost, Rhino, Oberon and Trinity deluxe skins are just too beautiful and I'm sad there'll never be any more. :(

Nova was terrible and the Chroma one doesn't look very good either. Save us!

[GTX49]

2 hours ago, HedgeEis said:

Noo, I'll never get a sweet Nidus deluxe skin now.

Frost, Rhino, Oberon and Trinity deluxe skins are just too beautiful and I'm sad there'll never be any more. :(

Nova was terrible and the Chroma one doesn't look very good either. Save us!

DE is implementing some "cultural" aspects on their homemade skins.

Look at Nova's and Chroma's Deluxe skins.

I don't see those 2 skins fitting in Warframe.

Edited December 18, 2016 by GTX49

[Raixo]

really sad news...

 

[aSpaceStranger]

We will never have the full details of what happened, or if it was Ignus who threw the first grenade at them (and tone of the argument), but I am 100% sure that impaled Axe on Embers head is beyond stupid, and very, very bland... If the art team want's a Mohawk look, then there are a lot of ways to make it more organic.

DE bumping heads on deluxe's is not new, it has been mention before, then there's Valkyr Prime (<-- my god! that was the definition of bland), I think I see a pattern here, is this how it's going to be from now on regarding the art team?.... I hope not.

[Rhekemi]

On 12/15/2016 at 10:09 AM, Fylas said:

the mocap studio made very immersive story quests possible, not to mention it seriously reduced the strain on animators when it comes to new moves, styles and frames. Without it 2nd dream and war within would have been much shorter in development and way duller but on the other hand when was that a good thing? :O besides with whats saved on regular development time thanks to the mocap studio, those 4 months used to redo war within 3 times will be outweighed by the time saved on other things before summer 2017 so it all works out :D  ... did I mention I like the studio alot? >_>'

What NightmareT12 said is true. I didn't mean they didn't need the new mocap studio, and incidentally that's one of the departments where I think they're understaffed (and overworked).

So good point, and it's exactly why making a profit is a good thing. 

On 12/15/2016 at 10:18 AM, NightmareT12 said:

That's not what he means.

What he means is that the new Update plans needs are bigger than what the studio people can give. There's a lot of overworking, not being able to fully add resources to something like PBR'ing stuff, not being able to fix stuff that's not literally urgent (for example, Edo Prime's Channeling effects are missing from the chest piece and have been like that since release), not being able to task animators to work on the clothes for the frames that still need them (Volt and Vauban) as fast as they wish they could do...

And that keeps growing and growing. War Within was so huge it had to be split and the actual quest took 8 months of developement if I'm not mistaken.

No one's saying the job done's bad, but that we're worried that we can't adress some (most) stuff at a... "Healthy"? rate.

Pretty much.

On 12/17/2016 at 0:33 AM, IgnusDei said:

The idea behind the skin wasn't so much 'instrumental music', but 'singer', and as such, I wound up integrating sound gear (the kind you'd find on a stage or a recording booth) into the design, as you can see with the headphones and microphones combo, and the speakers in the face and chest. With that in mind, the vinyl disk made an odd sort of sense to me. I blame Kaneko for that — his character designs have even weirder elements stuck on them.

Singer, huh? Interesting. That's something I'd never considered. It's no wonder why we're getting an actual musical instrument 'frame now.

On 12/17/2016 at 10:02 AM, Fylas said:

well I'm not actively asking people to boycott warframe, I'm merely saying if they do not like a business practice, do not support it with your money, you don't like the riven cap? don't by cap upgrades :O don't like how a skin looks after it was altered? don't buy it,  like a skin or accessory? buy it? I personally am a sucker for those chibi glyphs THEY ARE SO ADORABLE!!! I want a warframe coffee cup that has a chibi lotus yelling "it's the grineer" at a valkyr cat chibi chewing on a grineer head XD I'd even pay for export import whatever fees to get that cup to germany OwO now THAT's a giftshop item I can get behind :D :D :D

I agree: this is the kind of thing I wish they did more of. Might be harder to produce actual physical goods and ship them. I'm still seriously wondering when they'll dedicate time to write (or commission) official WF Universe fiction. They could sell ebooks and limited edition physical books full of official stories and lore. 

[(PSN)Dadissk]

Sorry to hear that. Im a big fan of your deluxe skins I never played with oberon until his deluxe skin ;) 

[(PSN)Vindicalis]

It's a shame that you are leaving @IgnusDei, you along with your are work will be missed.

but what you are doing is the right thing because if you don't take initiative and value your artwork then who will.

They should of respected your decisions and valued your opinions on what they did to your design. Just know you will be remembered. xoxo

Edited December 20, 2016 by (PS4)lmysterie

[Goodwill]

For the Ember skin redesign, I will admit I don't know what's with the tacked on blade and wished they had a better alternative. Other than that, it seemed the DE team streamlined most of the flame design which I find is much more simpler for game asset incorporation. It would be unfeasible to model the spikes with polygons, and texturing would look pretty horrendous on anything but absolute max settings. I don't know how DE has rigged their models, but the spikes may also interfere with the weighted skin rig. I doubt it, but I know that would be hell for me personally having to define that detail separately. You can also see Ember's right leg got the same treatment where they made the skin streamline.
 

Basically, not a fan of the blade on top, makes no sense and as others have said, looks tacked on. However, the elbow to me just looks like medieval elbow plate hinge. Overall, it seems the design was "optimized" over the original (outside of dagger head).

 

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Goodwill

[S3EK3R]

Problem is they tried to mix their fancy, clothy design into something that's streamlined, practical and smooth. The two styles conflict by default, trying to make a hybrid of the two doesn't work.

[DefekteDelfin]

On 18/12/2016 at 9:47 AM, --GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO-- said:

 

Way to come off incredibly and blindly rude, thus indirectly insulting IgnusDei's work.

Alright, after reading 25 pages of this type of comments, i feel the need to clarify some things.

 

Firstly, if you do not know how game design, creating concept art and implementing it from a 2D piece of art to a 3D In game model works, Please do not make comments like

"Why did they do X to the frame?"

"Why did they remove Y?"

"WTF DE, x,y and z look like crap."

For example, the banshee torn dress i think is actually impossible to make. If im not wrong, DE actually cannot make banshees dress because of technical limitations.

In this case, turning a 2D concept art with a ton of different faces due to the spikes and with a different body type into a in-game model would be borderline impossible/ not worth the effort. By blunting out some of the spikes, they reduce the faces and by changing the body type, they make the model easier to, well, model.

DE has reasons for the changes. The head knife might look bad but its to keep up with Ember's mohawk theme.

Please keep in mind, Ignus is hired to make concept art, then DE's team TWEAK it to fit the game and MAKE THE MODEL. This means DE does most of the work here. Ignus is lucky to only have minor tweaks done to his work. Most of the time, concept artists get their art butchered.

Ignus is also not the god of art like evryone here seems to think. He does not create the art, then design the model, then ship it out to players. Ignus has free reign over his art but most of his art do not share body types with the warframes or have borderline impossible features. In these cases, tweaks are necessary.

 

The notion that DE are disrespecting ignus is the stupidest thing i have ever heard. Sure if Ignus had created art, then gifted it to you as a present and you scribbled a ton of scrotums on it, that would be disrespect. What isnt disrespect however, is someone PAYING you to make art for their game, then tweaking it to fit in the game themetically AND technically. This means that Ignus does not know how being a concept designer works. You deisgn concepts and they get altered. You can try to negotiate and if your boss isn't bad, they'll probably listen and allow some key features you want back.

By the way he says that he butt heads, this makes me think this was not the case. Ignus probably didn't like the changes rightfully, but handled the situation innapropriately, likely causing his termination. Dont put DE in the spotlight, both parties might be wrong, heck, maybe Ignus was wrong. At this point, nobody knows.

Everyone here who doesn't know anything about this stop leaving ignorant comments saying how DE are evil villians number one and ignus is a poor artist who is super good at art but DE always fucks ignus's art up because

a) Mynki is S#&amp;&#036; at art and wants to make sure everyone knew he had a part in desigining the god of art, Ignus's skins.

b) The art team is insecure that they are also S#&amp;&#036; at art and as such, must tamper with ignus's art.

Both are of course, real things people have said and are both, fake. Everyone saying this forgets that everything else in the game is designed by these people. Corpus? Grineer? Lua? Kuva fortress? Jupiter gas cities? Cernos prime? All designed by these folks. All gorgeous aesthetically. People who say that DE are disrespecting Ignus's art by tweaking it suddenly turn around and with no hesitation, insult DE's art and artists, probably disrespecting DE 3x harder than Ignus since no insults have flown Ignus's way yet.

In conclusion, if you know nothing about game design, concept art, implementation of concept art into a game, and the concept of hired freelancers, dont leave heavily opiniated comments about how evil DE is.

[Satsuki]

The head blade looks like some godawful tacked-on garbage, other than that the modified version is fine and still mostly faithful to IgnusDei's concept. As others have mentioned prior, the reduction in the quantity of spikes and the 'elbow tumor' are modelling-convenience issues rather than DE crapping all over an otherwise respectable skin design; it's important to understand this before we continue with the torch-and-pitchfork session.

In any case, it's unfortunate that Ignus won't be designing any more skins for us as I really enjoyed the Trinity and Oberon deluxe skins in particular.

With that said I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind DE that the Nova deluxe skin was a steaming pile of trash and to never go in that direction ever again. Thank you for releasing something abstract and completely unfitting / silly for one of my top 3 frames. I would rather give my platinum away to random plebs in trade chat than spend it on that terrible skin.

[Darkmoone1]

Tragic. Simply tragic. Your Rhino skin in particular is what got me into buying these deluxe skins. It's something that I feel has your mark on it as an artist. It's clear that your work will take you places. Hope wherever you go you find success because you deserve it.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

They have an outside contractor artist with a proven track record that's been releasing hits after hits for months, making people shell 160+ Plat on what is basically useless cosmetic items... They don't even have to pay him a salary as an employee... And the guy brings in big plat for the company... Most WF vets bought the majority of his skins because, let's face it, they looked awesome.

And they "fire" him over minor differences in in terms of his design... Mainly DE making the original Ignus's Ember design worse in all regards, making the artists defend his vision, which we can all agree was justified considering the alterations are mostly for the worse.

Yes, Ignis should probably have bitten the bullet and let DE do their alterations without complaining , but he's a freelance artist with a proven track record, which gives him a certain amount of credibility and , at the very least, the right to argue about stuff like this. He cares about his designs, which is to be expected from someone that designs freelance skins better that the ones designed by people paid 40 hours a week internally.

What really gets to me is we're talking about an email argument here... Seriously, it's one thing to fire an internal employee because he's constantly nitpicking in meetings and acting like he owns the place, but we're talking about impersonal emails from a guy that works on a contractual nature. There's tons of ways DE could have handled this that would not result in telling the guy they would no longer need their services...

They have the final word anyway, they could have just said "We understand your concern and respect your artistic integrity, that said we retain the final creative decision, and we consider our version better for engine and branding reasons. Hopefully this will not tarnish the relation we have been having over the years. We appreciate your creative input and effort tremendously. Hopefully we can resolve this creative difference and continue working together in the future".

We're talking about an email argument, there's no reason why this would escalate in what basically is "you're fired"... Unless the DE artist team were startign to feel threatened by Ignus's art and they wanted to "get rid of the competition", so to speak. Honestly, that's what it sounds to me... A bunch of artists scared of losing their jobs since most of the actual art is now done off house by contractors and tennogen creators. Guess they have to show who is boss and push out the "competition" every now and then, to show they still pilot that ship and it's not run by the fanbase.

What sucks is that most of the DE deluxe skins are rather meh, honestly. Excalibur Proto wasn't exactly gorgeous, Nxy's Deluxe looked bad, Saryn's Deluxe looked like a deformed orchid, Nova's Deluxe looked like a fly monster thing... And chroma's upcoming deluxe is kinda meh. All in all, De doesn't have a particularly flawless track record when it comes to their deluxe skins.

In any case, enjoy losing 165 plat every few months from most of your fans, DE, I'm sure adding a rooster fin on Ember's head was worth it... So was winning an email argument.

Edited December 20, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[Goodwill]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

-text-

I think you are assuming too much and purposefully attempting to paint DE in an unfavorable light. For all we know, the separation may have been purely professional with just a few minor grievances or regrets. Either way, we shouldn't jump to conclusions and the matter is best left, or resolved with Ignus and DE.

As for Deluxe skins, I believe that's purely subjective to the player. Personally, Excalibur Proto skin is my favorite skin due to the texture and simplicity of the design. Although I wouldn't mind them toning down on the normals map for one of the color maps to reduce specular and possibly add a bit more diffusion for a leathery look. It also works well with majority of the cosmetic armor pieces. While what I recently found out were Ignus' skins, I found most of them didn't work well with external cosmetics outside of Syndanas. Granted, most of them looked great and is testament to how well the designs stand up on their own. Downside is that when I wore those skins, I looked like half the other players playing that Warframe albeit different colors. I prefer the simpler skins that can compliment the additional armor accessories. Again, this is subjective to the individual player.

However, thinking about it... that may be one of the reasons as to why DE have been streamlining the designs. Could it be because of the visual incompatibility with armor cosmetics? Looking at Ember again, the flare on the original art could possibly clip through armor pieces making it look very unpolished.

[DefekteDelfin]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

They have an outside contractor artist with a proven track record that's been releasing hits after hits for months, making people shell 160+ Plat on what is basically useless cosmetic items... They don't even have to pay him a salary as an employee... And the guy brings in big plat for the company... Most WF vets bought the majority of his skins because, let's face it, they looked awesome.

And they "fire" him over minor differences in in terms of his design... Mainly DE making the original Ignus's Ember design worse in all regards, making the artists defend his vision, which we can all agree was justified considering the alterations are mostly for the worse.

Yes, Ignis should probably have bitten the bullet and let DE do their alterations without complaining , but he's a freelance artist with a proven track record, which gives him a certain amount of credibility and , at the very least, the right to argue about stuff like this. He cares about his designs, which is to be expected from someone that designs freelance skins better that the ones designed by people paid 40 hours a week internally.

What really gets to me is we're talking about an email argument here... Seriously, it's one thing to fire an internal employee because he's constantly nitpicking in meetings and acting like he owns the place, but we're talking about impersonal emails from a guy that works on a contractual nature. There's tons of ways DE could have handled this that would not result in telling the guy they would no longer need their services...

They have the final word anyway, they could have just said "We understand your concern and respect your artistic integrity, that said we retain the final creative decision, and we consider our version better for engine and branding reasons. Hopefully this will not tarnish the relation we have been having over the years. We appreciate your creative input and effort tremendously. Hopefully we can resolve this creative difference and continue working together in the future".

We're talking about an email argument, there's no reason why this would escalate in what basically is "you're fired"... Unless the DE artist team were startign to feel threatened by Ignus's art and they wanted to "get rid of the competition", so to speak. Honestly, that's what it sounds to me... A bunch of artists scared of losing their jobs since most of the actual art is now done off house by contractors and tennogen creators. Guess they have to show who is boss and push out the "competition" every now and then, to show they still pilot that ship and it's not run by the fanbase.

What sucks is that most of the DE deluxe skins are rather meh, honestly. Excalibur Proto wasn't exactly gorgeous, Nxy's Deluxe looked bad, Saryn's Deluxe looked like a deformed orchid, Nova's Deluxe looked like a fly monster thing... And chroma's upcoming deluxe is kinda meh. All in all, De doesn't have a particularly flawless track record when it comes to their deluxe skins.

In any case, enjoy losing 165 plat every few months from most of your fans, DE, I'm sure adding a rooster fin on Ember's head was worth it... So was winning an email argument.

This post is full of assumptions that may not even be true.

For all we know, Ignus could have been the one in the wrong. Maybe Ignus was verbally abusing DE over this, maybe DE was overreacting by firing him. No one knows and theres no need for assumptions.

Saying that DE feels threatened by Ignus is just false and asinine. Why would a team of artists that created things like "Orokin moon, Kuva fortress, The Primes, the void, 100+ weapons, enemies like the manic, scrambus, ospret etc. Grineer forest, sealab etc. Etc." Be scared of someone they hired to create a few extra skins?

Everyone has different opinions. I personally love the Saryn Orphis skin. I dont like the upcoming frost skin, but its my opinion and i wont go around saying "Nobody likes the frost deluxe skin"

Or

"The orphid skin is widely regarded as one of the best skins"

From my perspective, the changes DE made were 100% justified. The head blade might look bad but its there to keep the "ember has a mohawk" theme. The Skirt is there to balance the sides. Having one side be extremely detailed and the other side be essentially plain white looks bad in 3D and is extremely unbalanced. The blunting of the spikes was to reduce the amount of faces on the skin so modelling would be easier.

Changes have to be made so the skins can be turned from a 2D design to a 3D model. Most of Ignus's art is ambitious and either dont use the same body type in game, or have impossible features like tons of spikes and torn dresses.

To address your last point, stop making assumptions and treating the assumptions as facts. You are making DE out to be evil insecure villians and Ignus to be a poor artist who is being trampled.

To show you how ridiculous your assumptions sound, i will make some up as well but targetting Ignus instead of DE.

"Jeez Ignus, why did you throw a tantrum over DE adding small stuff to the skin? You could have discussed like adults but you chose to argue over email. Good job losing your job over Small stuff"

 

Tl;dr Dont make assumptions

[Hypernaut1]

I could never understand how a fanbase can build such a disdain for the creators of the product they are a fan of. And it's not just WF either. It's a weird phenomenon. 

The very reason you are here is because of the creators and artist and the choices they made when creating this game. This isn't your product, its theirs. How can people act like they don't know what they're doing?

 

Edited December 20, 2016 by Hypernaut1