Riven Mods - A huge mistake?

[WolfTitan]

Riven mods are a huge mistake that could alter the game for the worse.

Before these mods came into existence, there was a hard cap on the power of weapons imposed by the available mods (called Maximization). This made the game fair to all players because they could become equally maximized over time. The new system (Riven mods) allows players to roll for different stats using Kuva - there no longer exists a hard cap; it's more of a soft cap. The number of possibilities for stats becomes unlimited. These unique mods will create a huge rift between wealthy players who now buy certain Riven mods for 1000 plat or more and poor players who have no hope of obtaining extremely powerful Riven mods and therefore matching the power of the wealthy spenders.

• Example of highly valuable (aka rare) Riven mods:
  • 3 lines of + critical chance or damage

Those of you who have played MapleStory can see the similarities. When Nexon introduced cubes, which allowed players to roll for a new set of stats on their items, the population gradually fell because of the power creep. Less wealthy Maplers could not catch up to the wealthy, who became owners of items with insanely powerful stats. If you play the game today, most players are the old timers with ridiculous power - there are dramatically fewer "middle class" and "lower class" players because they could not compete.

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TL;DR? Basing stats on RNG will kill the game. RNG should only be applied to drop tables, enemy drops, etc where there is an unlimited potential supply of mods (given a reasonable amount of grind). When mods can become unique based on RNG, the game's outlook becomes grim. Remember, this game is F2P, not P2P. Spending plat should only serve to accelerate your progress and aesthetics, not your power and stats.

Potential solutions to this problem:

1. Make the Riven mods untradable.
2. Remove the Riven mods from the game. (This is the preferred solution as it ensures that all players can become equally strong.)

I hope this post serves as a warning to DE from someone who likes the game very much and has given financial support. 

[TaricTheAncient]

They will NEVER remove them now that people have been paying plat for them. they might nerf but they wont remove...Unfortunately 

Edited December 24, 2016 by GodOfRandomnesss

[ArchPhaeton]

Yeah guys... considering the amount of RNG Rivens involve, they are nothing but an obvious plat sale boosting tactic, and a commodity for the wealthy players. I don't think they're usable in Conclave or anything as to call it a "p2w tactic", it's just a trigger for people that can't stand not having their gear at top stats. Eventually they either buy plat (DE wins) or grind for an eternity (DE still wins, having active players).

Me, I'm not bothering anymore, gave up just like with focus points. And two out of my hard earned six rivens are for god danged sentinel weapons that I never equip anyways, so yeah...

[-Apple-Pie-]

That thread was a huge mistake. I see Riven Mod is a Mistake every day. Stop farming posts already. Have you already mentioned Umbra today?

[Rioma]

They can't really remove them without the community erupting since people have bought some of them for thousands of plat. What about the time invested in grinding kuva to reroll them? Not even legendary cores can compensate for the damage already done by riven mods. They would literally just have to bite their tongue and stop producing new ones. But that would just make the current ones even more rare then they already are. 

 

TLDR: Rivens aren't going anywhere regardless of if we want them around or not. 

 

pretty sure someone at DE spent a bunch of time play The Division and thought the crafting system should somehow be brought into WF. Thus Riven mods were born.

[Brachion]

Rivens were created to make older, underused weapons viable, and to give people an incentive to use them and experiment with unique builds. In addition, since stronger weapons have weaker Rivens, power creep isn't gonna be an issue. As for the plat thing, you can't purchase Kuva or Rivens for plat, so that argument is just nonsensical. Sure, people may buy plat for trading, but they're a small minority and Riven prices will undoubtedly drop once they become more widely distributed.

[Dergas]

Even so, Riven mods are also an additional way for DE to get income so they won't be removing that any time soon. "Almost $5 worth of plat for a few kilobytes or less of data? Sign me up!"

Edited December 24, 2016 by Dergas

[Betcha]

People with powerful mods will carry your A** through the missions nothing wrong with that.

I dont see reason why would you call Riven Mods as mistake. PVE anyways.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Betcha

[OnTarasMind]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - The whole system is still a work in progress. The system was meant to help bring back weapons that have fallen out of favor, like the Flux Rifle, Miter, Panthera, Ogris, etc. With the right tweaks to the disposition system, it could make mods for meta weapons not that great, while making ones for non-meta weapons better, therefore allowing for much more choice in terms of weapons that can be used in higher tier missions. 

But, if you just don't like the system, just stick to your meta weapons and mods and don't use the Riven mods. There's always going to be people who are going to use the system, and removing it isn't really an option.

I also seriously doubt that DE would make a system like this just to boost plat sales. Something like that just seems like a paranoid thought, for lack of a better term.

[C00mpadson]

27 minutes ago, GodOfRandomnesss said:

They will NEVER remove them now that people have been paying plat for them. they might nerf but they wont remove...Unfortunately 

They can turn the riven mods into legendary fusion cores (they already did it with mods they wanted to remove from the game)

Edited December 24, 2016 by AndradeMS

[erny0507]

Yes they are. Just cancer in short words.

[Drakenreiter]

Nope, they're an awesome addition to the game.

Now please stop making threads in which you people whine about every single damn thing. At this point, I feel like people don't even want Warframe, they want similar games that are built on their not thought-through at all silly ideas instead. Ugh... so... tired... of.... this... world...

[(PSN)ThatPersonInMars]

yep riven mods are stupid but wasnt a mistake, DE made riven mods because people wanted buff for the almost every weapon and DE chose easy way and made this system, and made them OP so people buys platinum to buy these OP mods from other people with trading system, so it is an easy way to make more money with less effort for DE and give people what they want kinda, they wont be nerfed nor removed, gotta get used to it, just dont care you can be good without riven mods

[(XBOX)Prime Pedestal]

I don't think they should be removed, I just think that for a cost, 2000 kuva perhaps one could lock in one stat on the mod permanently. This would help to make the mods more balanced for everyone.

As the OP said there should be little or no RNG behind a weapons stats, and whilst this wouldn't remove that problem it would help to lessen it, especially as the cost of rerolling gets incredibly expensive.

[(PSN)fullblast35]

The reason why I personally do not care or worry about riven mods is simple.  To all of you who have seen screenshots of players with may riven mods to sell, they didn't get them by doing sorties but by buying/trading.  Now, if you're a veteran or advanced player, would;dn't it be convenient to have all sorts of riven mods?  that's not what's happening.  Why?    They said it weeks ago in a  stream :  Riven mods are made to enhanced weapons you do not prefer or rarely use,  and also to make your build unique.  But they didn't mention something you should have figured out by now.  A maxed riven mod though interesting in stats makes you sacrifice 1 or 2 mods, if not redo your whole build.  I personally, as much as I would love to have more power on a weapon am quite comfortable with the way its built.  I will not sacrifice one mod slot or re-forma just because of a riven.  On another hand I wouldn't mind experimenting on weapons a rarely use because of their lack of power, and that's where I find a purpose for riven mods.

[-N7-Leonhart]

I love them, this feeling cannot be a mistake.

[WolfTitan]

44 minutes ago, (PS4)fullblast35 said:

Riven mods are made to enhanced weapons you do not prefer or rarely use,  and also to make your build unique.  But they didn't mention something you should have figured out by now.  A maxed riven mod though interesting in stats makes you sacrifice 1 or 2 mods, if not redo your whole build.  I personally, as much as I would love to have more power on a weapon am quite comfortable with the way its built.  I will not sacrifice one mod slot or re-forma just because of a riven.  On another hand I wouldn't mind experimenting on weapons a rarely use because of their lack of power, and that's where I find a purpose for riven mods.

This isn't true because there are Riven mods for widely used weapons that give extremely powerful stats. It virtually makes some mods obsolete. Have you seen the Synoid Simulor Riven mod that gives two sets of increased critical chance and a set of increased damage?

One roll could be the difference between a worthless mod and a 2000 plat mod. Tell me how this helps the future of the game?

I don't buy into the premise that Riven mods help make worthless weapons useful. If they are so worthless, they either shouldn't be in the game or their stats should be increased for all players.

[LordMidnightX]

I think rivens are ok, although the rng walls in place suck. I would love some rivens for my "fun" guns and I did get a good one for my amprex which is now my go to gun now. I think they should have implemented a cost system to choose which gun the riven is for. Higher tiered guns will cost a huge amount to get a riven for and those rivens will still be less powerful then the low tiered rivens

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

2 hours ago, mobilehacker said:

That thread was a huge mistake. I see Riven Mod is a Mistake every day. Stop farming posts already. Have you already mentioned Umbra today?

not sure if  by coincidence or irony i was lured here 

 

[Serafim_94]

Yea, I totally need rivens in my arsenal. My bows and Tigris prime need to one-shot things even harder than they do now.

 

I gave up on rivens the moment I've seen challenge needed to unlock one. And it's not like I'm left out of something. S#&$ dies just as good as before.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

3 hours ago, WolfTitan said:

This isn't true because there are Riven mods for widely used weapons that give extremely powerful stats. It virtually makes some mods obsolete. Have you seen the Synoid Simulor Riven mod that gives two sets of increased critical chance and a set of increased damage?

One roll could be the difference between a worthless mod and a 2000 plat mod. Tell me how this helps the future of the game?

I don't buy into the premise that Riven mods help make worthless weapons useful. If they are so worthless, they either shouldn't be in the game or their stats should be increased for all players.

I just want to say that this tonkor mod shown in the pic is not representative of the double nerfed versions that are around today.  The same mod above is now likely to be around 50% or so crit chance and 35-40% multishot.  Personally speaking dropping a bladed rounds in or even a 90% elemental could easily make this mod inconsequential or the benefits negligible.

The OP meta weapon rivens (faint disposition) are such junk now that unless you get a perfect roll one that is just as good or a slightly better than a non riven mod there's no point in wasting a slot.

In this regard I think DE did ok.

On the topic of the existence of rivens.  Well.... I'm still mixed feelings.  On one hand I have a collection of over 40 rivens all great stats of which most I have yet to fully enjoy and finish forma'ing my weps for.  On the other hand I find myself saying.... I was also doing just fine before rivens killing enemies, and it's only deep endless missions where damage would fall off, but most players won't play 4 hour survival anyway.  Primed cryo rounds was kind of a big deal just weeks before

My favorite rivens are those that really make the weapon better rather than straight buff them.  Like a Supra one I own that has multishot, flight speed and punch through.  It's good and does make the weapon powerful, but I will say that my TTKs (Time To Kill) doesn't feel any faster.  Another mod makes my crossbow fire three arrows with every shot kinda makes it behave like a shotgun.  XD

The devs have committed to not balancing the game around rivens so there's that.  Not much to worry about then.

I will say that for those players who don't want to take part in the riven madness Baro ki'teer needs to step up his game and put out more primed mods to compete against rivens.  Before anyone has objections to that remember even with an 8 polarity weapon we're only able to squeeze in like 2 primed mods and 1 riven max because of the 60 mod energy limit so.... c'mon Baro you can fix all of this.

Edited December 25, 2016 by sushidubya

[Twerking_Alpacas]

There is pressure for players to spend plat, that much is a given, and necessary to keep a F2P game afloat. Maybe you wouldn't spend 1000p for a soma riven, but there's no stopping other people from doing it if they want to. Besides, things are dying fast enough for the regular strong weapon (AKA soma penta tonkor what have you). How much different is the gameplay experience between a person with a tonkor riven and one that doesn't? Is everybody running 60 minute survivals and defenses?

Riven is a good idea, and i think it should stay. I've had some fun trading and buying "crap" rivens around, it did give me an incentive to try weaker guns again.

That being said, I do think:1. DE still needs to look into buffing certain weapons, especially older ones. If DE's intention was to bring old, weak weapons back into the spotlight, it isn't working and they still suk. 2. Reduce RNG or limit it, by introducing methods to "lock down" attributes.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Twerking_Alpacas

[Wurster]

I don't think, that riven mods themselves are that bad. I even agree to the hard nerfs on some rivens. I just don't agree with the current system how they are altered. What i would want to see is a system, that lets you have your rivens customized in your own interest.

Want status chance or toxic damage on your riven? Change one stat solely to status chance or toxic damage for a quite high amount of Kuva or something else or reroll it like it is now. Just to not rely purely on RNG. The grinding (that, I understand, is essential for the game) is still there and some people who want their rivens faster, still will pay plat for them. And the other people, who don't own a huge amount of plat will be more pleased and not feeling so forced to buy plat. Yet they still might purchase some.

The system clearly needs some improvement, but I don't think it should be deleted completely.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Wurster

[cittran]

"3 lines of +CRIT chance or +CRIT damage"

Oh look, someone didn't read the wiki page on riven mods.

They can't have duplicate stats. Each type of bonus can only be represented once on a riven mod.

[Fansay]

It's been said before. But unless you're doing 4+ hour endless missions the highest level enemy you will encounter is sortie level. And we have a huge arsenal of weapons that can kill sortie level enemies without Rivens. If you disagree you need to spend more time forma-ing non-meta weapons.

Comments on "just buff all weapons". The reason for MR locking weapons is to give players a feeling of progression as they play. So yes, lower MR weapons will generally be weaker than higher MR weapons (except for some outliers...). This makes sense. You gain MR/experience, and are rewarded with higher level content and weapons that are better able to deal with that content.

Rivens are designed to give stat buffs to lesser used weapons so as to let you take out that once-favourite weapon again and use it in sorties effectively. Does a +critChance +critDamage Tonkor Riven break the game? Not really, refer to my first point. You were killing everything in 1 shot before, and still are.
 

I mostly see Rivens as a way of more easily experimenting with alternate builds and old favourite weapons. Status builds are always more fun that crit builds. But if you can do both...