HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[Cortanis]

Just an fyi. I run a ghost clan and I'm more than half way done with the cost on this. Once I finish it, I'll be allowing anyone access to get the bp once it's done cooking. Hit me up in game and I'll tell you what the status is at the time.

[kaliazane]

Oh so this is where complainers moved, they will increase drop rate and it's still not good enough. What a surprise~

[Reifnir]

15 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

they will increase drop rate and it's still not good enough. What a surprise~

Some clans are looking at 100+ (if not more) hours of grinding for each remaining member. Upping the drop amount 3x will reduce this to 33+ hours of grinding.

If you think that a player who has ~2h play time per day is going to like the idea of spending over 2 weeks doing NOTHING but Derelict grind for ONE mastery fodder grade weapon, you might be in for a surprise.

 

Hema research cost needs to go down, and severely. Like, 10x severely in case of Samples. And please, don't use the justification of honoring the clans who did the "join us and dump samples into our research" routine, it never stopped DE before (Zephyr, Vay Hek keys, VaubanP etc) when they changed something. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Reifnir

[kaliazane]

8 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

Some clans are looking at 100+ (if not more) hours of grinding for each remaining member. Upping the drop amount 3x will reduce this to 33+ hours of grinding.

If you think that a player who has ~2h play time per day is going to like the idea of spending over 2 weeks doing NOTHING but Derelict grind for ONE mastery fodder grade weapon, you might be in for a surprise.

 

Hema research cost needs to go down, and severely. Like, 10x severely in case of Samples. And please, don't use the justification of honoring the clans who did the "join us and dump samples into our research" routine, it never stopped DE before (Zephyr, Vay Hek keys, VaubanP etc) when they changed something. 

What 100+ hours, what 2 weeks ? If you solo grind dead moon clan you have only yourself to blame. It was already doable previously if you did what they asked you to do, now it will be out right easy.

Cost wont go down as they stated already, but you will get higher drop rate. It's time to thank them and move on already.

[Reifnir]

15 minutes ago, ViS4GE said:

It's time to thank them and move on already.

Really, THANK them for introducing a single fodder item that has a research cost that is 10 times more than everything else in the lab combined? Wow.

What's it going to take to make you realize that grinding this much leads to burnout and NOTHING else? A 5,000 Neural Senors Djinn Prime? Or some new Tenno Lab weapon with 1,000 Argon Crystals research requirement?

Because it doesn't even sound crazy enough now that we have a weapon that needs more resources than you acquire in over two years of casually playing the game unless you specifically farm them. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Reifnir

[(PSN)Sange13]

15 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

Really, THANK them for introducing a single fodder item that has a research cost that is 10 times more than everything else in the lab combined? Wow.

What's it going to take to make you realize that grinding this much leads to burnout and NOTHING else? A 5,000 Neural Senors Djinn Prime? Or some new Tenno Lab weapon with 1,000 Argon Crystals research requirement?

Because it doesn't even sound crazy enough now that we have a weapon that needs more resources than you acquire in over two years of casually playing the game unless you specifically farm them. 

He's just trolling. Ignore him.

[ScribbleClash]

The whole argument, that some players had the ressources is moot. Devstream #85 confirmed that they looked at what stockpiled ressource was the lowest.
That being said, so far I think Mutagen Samples are the only Ressource that's been reasonable so far. Changing the dropchance of them, will just create another meaningless ressource. So far, DE has been introducing new ressources. And while that is a practice to get old players to play, it is making the whole table way to cluttered for new players.
How about instead of ressources, why not make it so the blueprint has to be uncovered first?

[kaliazane]

39 minutes ago, Reifnir said:

Really, THANK them for introducing a single fodder item that has a research cost that is 10 times more than everything else in the lab combined? Wow.

What's it going to take to make you realize that grinding this much leads to burnout and NOTHING else? A 5,000 Neural Senors Djinn Prime? Or some new Tenno Lab weapon with 1,000 Argon Crystals research requirement?

Because it doesn't even sound crazy enough now that we have a weapon that needs more resources than you acquire in over two years of casually playing the game unless you specifically farm them. 

Steve stated that it might have been mistake, so you won't see 5000 Neural Sensors Djinn Prime. You should thank them for compromising and increasing drop rate of samples.

[theraot]

Do people remember by thread where I outlined various possible solutions with prost and cons?

It is gone.

GG DE GG

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

5 minutes ago, theraot said:

Do people remember by thread where I outlined various possible solutions with prost and cons?

It is gone.

GG DE GG

really?? you sure it didn't get merged or something? :O

[Vermitore]

13 hours ago, notlamprey said:

How magnanimous of them!

They're promising less pressure to buy the weapon, after almost all the people who were ever going to buy it have already bought it.

Wow, so generous. It's the most predictable of revenue-juicing tactics; they want to reap the cash and try to salvage some good PR.

 

A micro-transaction is a contract. Take it or leave it. How many of those people were coerced?

 

12 hours ago, (PS4)Sange13 said:

And you have shown that nobody should bother with what you think.

 

That is a rather poor one, as far as arguments are concerned.

 

12 hours ago, Celthric317 said:

Only problem I have with the weapon, is that it takes 50k salvage to make. 

 

I find that price exorbitant too. Maybe if it cost an extra 50k mutagen samples instead. I think that would be reasonable.

 

11 hours ago, T1t4n_43 said:

Love most of the new contents of the past year, but...

Hema's muta cost is so wrong, I'm surprised about it won't be corrected.

It requires so insane much efforts, it doesn't unite clans, it burns ppl out.

Possibly 80% of clans are still in struggle with Hema, referring to protect that 20% who completed it is so wrong.

I'm sorry, I don't have my whole life to give to this game by repeating the same again and again. I have work, relation, family, friends, hobbies, parties with serious drinking...

and I also can't buy Hema with plats for the 50 active (signed in the past 3 weeks) ppl of my storm clan it's 500 $ hard cash, can buy 10 new epic game from that price.

I saw there were "protest against Hema requirements" titled articles also, they were a misstake. DE doesn't tolerate these, even they are right, will be rejected, DE only accepts gentle requests, because of... many reasons.

 

Lots of people have real life commitments. At the end of the day, what people need to understand is that some content will not be easily accessible and will require several hours' worth of time investment. I used to be properly kitted in WoW when I was fervidly playing it. Now I log in once every couple of days. I don't expect to be in all the best items with the meagre time investment I make.

 

5 hours ago, Chakravikari said:

What I want to know is has ANY moon clan finished research?

 

Maybe, maybe not. Probably so.

 

1 hour ago, ViS4GE said:

Oh so this is where complainers moved, they will increase drop rate and it's still not good enough. What a surprise~

 

No, DE should pay people platinum to explore new content. It is only appropriate that I be given everything I have ever wanted in a game at the snap of my finger and be congratulated on it with a hearty pat on the back and some plat for pocket money just because I am such a swell dude. Yeah, that's me.

 

1 hour ago, Reifnir said:

Some clans are looking at 100+ (if not more) hours of grinding for each remaining member. Upping the drop amount 3x will reduce this to 33+ hours of grinding.

If you think that a player who has ~2h play time per day is going to like the idea of spending over 2 weeks doing NOTHING but Derelict grind for ONE mastery fodder grade weapon, you might be in for a surprise.

 

Hema research cost needs to go down, and severely. Like, 10x severely in case of Samples. And please, don't use the justification of honoring the clans who did the "join us and dump samples into our research" routine, it never stopped DE before (Zephyr, Vay Hek keys, VaubanP etc) when they changed something. 

 

Yeah, 100+ hours of grinding if you approach it in the most sub-optimal way. Like, if you go there with 4 Oberons with 1 spamming Renewal and the other 3 Aquarid Narta.

 

1 hour ago, Reifnir said:

Really, THANK them for introducing a single fodder item that has a research cost that is 10 times more than everything else in the lab combined? Wow.

What's it going to take to make you realize that grinding this much leads to burnout and NOTHING else? A 5,000 Neural Senors Djinn Prime? Or some new Tenno Lab weapon with 1,000 Argon Crystals research requirement?

Because it doesn't even sound crazy enough now that we have a weapon that needs more resources than you acquire in over two years of casually playing the game unless you specifically farm them. 

 

Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps. Who knows?

[theraot]

13 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

really?? you sure it didn't get merged or something? :O

Thank you, found it on the present thread

Just in case... Google Cache: https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6OgQmeDpM30J:https://forums.warframe.com/topic/745474-hema-suggested-solutions-pros-cons/+&cd=1&hl=es&ct=clnk

[Flirk2]

They could let us turn resources into credits and then put more ''pedestals prime'' to suck those credits out.

They could go a slightly harder way, and make more consumables that would use more resources (grenades, mines, mobile cover)

But no. We get one use only insanely overpriced opportunities to sink ever increasing quantities of resources into underwhelming weapons.

30k cryohammer? 10 times the reasonable price that is still in game because a lot of people can pay it.

5k sample rifle? 100 times the reasonable price will stay, because there were some people who could pay it.

I guess next time it will be 1000 times the reasonable price.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Flirk2

[(PSN)Sange13]

1 hour ago, Flirk2 said:

They could let us turn resources into credits and then put more ''pedestals prime'' to suck those credits out.

They could go a slightly harder way, and make more consumables that would use more resources (grenades, mines, mobile cover)

But no. We get one use only insanely overpriced opportunities to sink ever increasing quantities of resources into underwhelming weapons.

30k cryohammer? 10 times the reasonable price that is still in game because a lot of people can pay it.

5k sample rifle? 100 times the reasonable price will stay, because there were some people who could pay it.

I guess next time it will be 1000 times the reasonable price.

I agree that 5k MS is ridiculous, but 30k Cryo is really easy to do. Only takes a few hours--not that much of a commitment for this game. 5k MS could take weeks or months of the same boring grind for a semi-interesting, but not at all needed, weapon.

[gizol333]

6 hours ago, Naskoni said:

I'll just leave this here:

 

(No, this image is not my creation, although I may have been quoted in it, and as such I take no credit for it)

(I think it is ok for everyone to use that picture if you and @Ditto132 don't mind it.)

(Btw. Here is a v2 without white pixels. {White pixels were only visible on the dark background}

 

 

And the version that @Ditto132 asked for)

 

 

 

Back to the topic:

....wow....

I do not know what to say about DE logic...... just wow....

They acknowledge the problem and instead of fixing it they think about putting a bandaid on it which is creating more problems ....

Edited January 7, 2017 by gizol333
clarification

[Golmihr]

Currently the Hema is not worth the time it takes to farm it.

 

Not even if it was firing 300% multishot spinning Galatine Primes that share you melee load-out.

[Vermitore]

16 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

Currently the Hema is not worth the time it takes to farm it.

 

Not even if it was firing 300% multishot spinning Galatine Primes that share you melee load-out.

 

If that was the case, I'd just buy it with plat on release. Imagine firing 3x3 Galatine Prime Cleaving Whirlwind projectiles. You'd be set for the rest of eternity with that kind of damage output.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Vermitore

[EvilChaosKnight]

Also I just remembered something.

Didn't they say the same thing (aka something among the lines of "we've learned not to put such high research costs and we won't do it again") after the Sibear drama?

Edited January 7, 2017 by EvilChaosKnight

[Squikker2001]

3 minutes ago, EvilChaosKnight said:

Also I just remembered something.

Didn't they same thing (aka something among the lines of "we've learned not to put such high research costs and we won't do it again") after the Sibear drama?

Maybe they forgot about that the same way they forgot to make Primed Vigor not able to be traded at launch, only this time the "fix" is to do absolutely nothing.

 

I wonder how honored the coffee grinders are with their hema-rrhoids.

[Golmihr]

20 minutes ago, Vermitore said:

 

If that was the case, I'd just buy it with plat on release. Imagine firing 3x3 Galatine Prime Cleaving Whirlwind projectiles. You'd be set for the rest of eternity with that kind of damage output.

That's different. I simply have no interest in spending the amount of time required farming boring stuff in warframe. Point being that it wouldn't matter how OP the weapon was.

I'm currently near 200k infested kills in my combat stats, the highest of the 3 factions. I got 162 Mutagen Samples. To compare I got  13440 Fieldron samples and 5793 Detonite Samples. (And I have bought most Dojo research where those two are required.) If I could find a max sized Ghost Clan (Which I have no intentions of doing) I could reduce the cost to 500. Judging by the amount of time I would still need to waste on farming, even in that theoretically scenario I still wouldn't want to farm that. This is a game I play to have fun after all and if enough of my time spend on it isn't fun I simply stop playing it.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Golmihr

[Ditto132]

38 minutes ago, gizol333 said:

(I think it is ok for everyone to use that picture if you and @Ditto132 don't mind it.)

(Btw. Here is a v2 without white pixels.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

And the version that @Ditto132 asked for)

  Hide contents

 

 

Back to the topic:

....wow....

I do not know what to say about DE logic...... just wow....

They acknowledge the problem and instead of fixing it they think about putting a bandaid on it which is creating more problems ....

Haha. I don't think the original creator would might to share it around.
Not sure if you know the reason why I preferred it to be 120 points :D

[Naskoni]

4 minutes ago, Ditto132 said:

Haha. I don't think the original creator would might to share it around.
Not sure if you know the reason why I preferred it to be 120 points :D

@gizol333 is the original creator, don't see why I should have a say in the first place. For what I care everybody is most welcome to use it as much as they want 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Naskoni

[gizol333]

12 minutes ago, Ditto132 said:

Not sure if you know the reason why I preferred it to be 120 points :D

 I don't know. I didn't think about it.

Edited January 7, 2017 by gizol333
typo

[Vermitore]

24 minutes ago, Golmihr said:

That's different. I simply have no interest in spending the amount of time required farming boring stuff in warframe. Point being that it wouldn't matter how OP the weapon was.

I'm currently near 200k infested kills in my combat stats, the highest of the 3 factions. I got 162 Mutagen Samples. To compare I got  13440 Fieldron samples and 5793 Detonite Samples. (And I have bought most Dojo research where those two are required.) If I could find a max sized Ghost Clan (Which I have no intentions of doing) I could reduce the cost to 500. Judging by the amount of time I would still need to waste on farming, even in that theoretically scenario I still wouldn't want to farm that. This is a game I play to have fun after all and if enough of my time spend on it isn't fun I simply stop playing it.

And that is absolutely fine. If you're the kind of person to say 'No, can't be bothered.' and move on, there's absolutely no problem with that. It only becomes excessively demanding when people expect everything to be easily affordable to everyone, with no room for exceptions.

[Golmihr]

1 hour ago, Vermitore said:

And that is absolutely fine. If you're the kind of person to say 'No, can't be bothered.' and move on, there's absolutely no problem with that. It only becomes excessively demanding when people expect everything to be easily affordable to everyone, with no room for exceptions.

I realize that it is technically a choice but (As I understand it) to "most" players that cost currently is not really a choice as much as just an illusion of a choice. Unless we are talking about the choice not to get it vs buying it with plat. Either way it seems like a change in their approach.

Edit: It reminds me that DE have been sold to a Chinese company a year ago (Leyou). I mean with how the grind in Asian games tends to be.

Edited January 7, 2017 by Golmihr