HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[ChameleonBro]

8 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

except they won't do anything because

a) they want to 'honor' those who did grind already

b) it's already 'raining in derelict'

all we can hope for at this point is that they'll not repeat this in the future (except they want do do more 'crazy clan stuff like this') and not lock other research behind hema (which they didn't confirm nor deny yet)

From what I remember DE Rebbeca said that they won't be doing these crazy costs in the future. I hope they stay true to their word. The cost of Hema is just not fair to players who don't have as much time or money as other players. Not everyone has the time to waste on hours of grinding.

[ChuckMaverick]

11 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

except they won't do anything because

a) they want to 'honor' those who did grind already

Now that I've finished collecting all the mutagen samples for my solo research I can honestly say that I'd feel most 'honoured' if DE would recognise the issues with this and reduce the clan costs.

Hell, they could move the costs from clan research to manufacture and make me farm them twice and I'd still think it was better than what we have now.

[VentiGlondi]

I'm not really sure what people are trying to defend here. Literally nothing good came out of Hema's inflated research requirements.

Derelict is not any more interesting. Dojo is same as ever. Grinding didn't change.

The "clan goal" DE was talking about is literally more of the same stuff we've been doing past these four(?) years, except you're forced onto a specific tileset.

[Nezha_Rose]

I bought the Hema with plat and gave it two formas.  I almost was certain I would not bother farming. Until I got two gifts by two separate clan members,  a chance and resourse booster. Weeks where spent to get those 50k,  as a clan,  as a team.  Formad my hydro and got more endo than a week of sortie.  This was on the first days this thing got released.  We made it and we suffered,  and all of us don't want others (like those on alliance)  to suffer like we did (the right word for this would be endured but...  eh) 

This is something I wanna say,  buying the hema is easy,  but you'd only be helping yourself and not the other members of your clan.  It's sad to say this,  but spending to get the resourses for this thing is far more worth, albeit expensive,  than just buying it.  It's bad , but hey,  at least it made our clan come togheter and we all now have something in common... we all hate the derelict right now XD

EDIT: I actually bought the Nidus bundle that had both the hema and Nidus on it.  I'm avoiding to suffer the Nidua RNG

Edited January 29, 2017 by Nezha_Rose
Lots of typos

[plexus_brachialis]

1 hour ago, ChameleonBro said:

From what I remember DE Rebbeca said that they won't be doing these crazy costs in the future. I hope they stay true to their word. The cost of Hema is just not fair to players who don't have as much time or money as other players. Not everyone has the time to waste on hours of grinding.

didnt steve said in devstream that they want to do more stuff like this? of course with less craziness than hema, but i'm giving them half a year at most before they go back on their word if they do try that. and no, they don't want you to grind, god forbid - buy the finished product! or at least boosters! tell them with your money that it's okay and acceptable. thats what they are hoping for. 

[plexus_brachialis]

1 hour ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Now that I've finished collecting all the mutagen samples for my solo research I can honestly say that I'd feel most 'honoured' if DE would recognise the issues with this and reduce the clan costs.

Hell, they could move the costs from clan research to manufacture and make me farm them twice and I'd still think it was better than what we have now.

it's funny, that's the response i see most from people who grinded it, 'de we don't care, just fix this' 

but enjoy all that honor upon you now, chuck. enjoy it. you earned it. until next time. 

[KIREEK]

I would be carefull there, i assume players have more fieldrons and other resources stored up in higher ammounts compared to mutagens, so carefull with the next researches, you have plenty of time to prepare, so..........prepare.

[ChuckMaverick]

17 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

it's funny, that's the response i see most from people who grinded it, 'de we don't care, just fix this'

I wish Steve had archived his first stream.

I still find it hard to believe that anyone would be so selfish as to say "Well I suffered, so now all other current and future players should suffer as well."

[VirtualViolet]

You guys know that you don't NEED to have everything immediately after its release, right? Even if it takes months to gather the Mutagen Samples, you're not at a disadvantage. It's one weapon among a sea of weapons, many of which are far more powerful than the Hema. There's no time limit on the Hema research, no deadline. Just relax. Seriously. Play some derelict survival or defense (preferably with a speed Nova and at least a Nekros and one person with a resource drop chance booster) once every few days, and you'll get there eventually. Also, I can't recommend the 30-day resource booster (the orange one) enough. It doubles the amount you receive for Kuva and Void Traces as well as regular resources such as Mutagen Samples. (And the 30-day booster is a much better deal than the 3- or 7-day boosters, even if you don't play every day.)

(FYI, I am in a Mountain clan at probably less than half capacity of active players. So, yeah, we've got some grinding left to do. I've contributed around 3-4k myself, and we still have 30k or so remaining out of the 150k requirement. Hasn't negatively impacted my experience of the game one bit.)

[notlamprey]

14 minutes ago, VirtualViolet said:

You guys know that you don't NEED to have everything immediately after its release, right? Even if it takes months to gather the Mutagen Samples, you're not at a disadvantage. It's one weapon among a sea of weapons, many of which are far more powerful than the Hema. There's no time limit on the Hema research, no deadline. Just relax. Seriously. Play some derelict survival or defense (preferably with a speed Nova and at least a Nekros and one person with a resource drop chance booster) once every few days, and you'll get there eventually. Also, I can't recommend the 30-day resource booster (the orange one) enough. It doubles the amount you receive for Kuva and Void Traces as well as regular resources such as Mutagen Samples. (And the 30-day booster is a much better deal than the 3- or 7-day boosters, even if you don't play every day.)

(FYI, I am in a Mountain clan at probably less than half capacity of active players. So, yeah, we've got some grinding left to do. I've contributed around 3-4k myself, and we still have 30k or so remaining out of the 150k requirement. Hasn't negatively impacted my experience of the game one bit.)

I can understand where you're coming from, but how would you feel if one in every two new weapons ended up having costs like Hema?

This is bad for the game, at any frequency. It won't be a matter of "just ignoring it for now" if DE decides that this approach reliably leads to favorable sales.

Also, buying boosters to accelerate your grind is tantamount to purchasing the weapon with plat. Your chosen example, the 30-day booster, costs 200 platinum. Hema's price tag in the market is 225 platinum. Consider the single-player Ghost clans: if one player spends 200 platinum to grind for Hema, that's very nearly the same as simply buying it. I don't think your suggestion is a wise one, especially when you take into account that it is these tiny clans who are already being hit hard by the research cost.

[plexus_brachialis]

11 minutes ago, VirtualViolet said:

You guys know that you don't NEED to have everything immediately after its release, right? Even if it takes months to gather the Mutagen Samples, you're not at a disadvantage. It's one weapon among a sea of weapons, many of which are far more powerful than the Hema. There's no time limit on the Hema research, no deadline. Just relax. Seriously. Play some derelict survival or defense (preferably with a speed Nova and at least a Nekros and one person with a resource drop chance booster) once every few days, and you'll get there eventually. Also, I can't recommend the 30-day resource booster (the orange one) enough. It doubles the amount you receive for Kuva and Void Traces as well as regular resources such as Mutagen Samples. (And the 30-day booster is a much better deal than the 3- or 7-day boosters, even if you don't play every day.)

(FYI, I am in a Mountain clan at probably less than half capacity of active players. So, yeah, we've got some grinding left to do. I've contributed around 3-4k myself, and we still have 30k or so remaining out of the 150k requirement. Hasn't negatively impacted my experience of the game one bit.)

it's like we don't have 57 pages of arguing against everything you just posted, god...but let's go over it, i need to vent.

1) more or less we all agree we DON'T need it immediately. stretching the goal to MONTHS or more is bit unreasonable for casual players. 'you are not wanted here, filthy casual'. especially when DE admited they looked at what players have least of, which is just frick-frack you to all time veterans spent in game, because apparently it's not enough. im not advocating every newbie should get everything immediately. but after 2-3k hours? yeah, i think some leeway is deserved.

2) if it's just one weapon, and not even extraordinary powerful, there is no justification for such ridiculous cost.

3)unless DE decides to lock future content behind it. unless they sign some legaly binding contract that promises to never ever do that, i'm operating under assumption that they eventually will. 

3) derelict. farm 2 nodes, with optimized squad setup, after all the nerfs and changes meant to prevent that. because farming is not playing the game, and DE wants us to play the game above all. doesn't matter if you do it every day or once a week, it's still farming one specific place. we have no choice here at all.

4) boosters should be here for player convenience, not forced on us to make any meaningful progress. 

5) that's good for you, but i'd wager there isn't lot of people in your boat. proof: this thread and others that were merged into this one.

6) telling DE this is okay, we are encouraging them to keep going in this direction. 'yes, DE, i have 500 cells after 3 years, please make next thing cost 2k. please'

 

 

[VirtualViolet]

Just now, notlamprey said:

I can understand where you're coming from, but how would you feel if one in every two new weapons ended up having costs like Hema?

This is bad for the game, at any frequency. It won't be a matter of "just ignoring it for now" if DE decides that this approach reliably leads to favorable sales.

Also, buying boosters to accelerate your grind is tantamount to purchasing the weapon with plat. Your chosen example, the 30-day booster, costs 200 platinum. Hema's price tag in the market is 225 platinum. Consider the single-player Ghost clans: if one player spends 200 platinum to grind for Hema, that's very nearly the same as simply buying it. I don't think your suggestion is a wise one, especially when you take into account that it is these tiny clans who are already being hit hard by the research cost.

I buy boosters anyway because I like getting double Kuva and Void Traces (also because I don't have much else that I care to buy with the plat I get from selling primes). Reducing the Mutagen Sample grind for Hema is just a bonus. My recommendation for the booster was merely meant as an aside.

I was under the impression that the smaller clans had it easier, actually. A half-full Ghost clan only has a handful of members worth of contributions to make up for, while a half-full Mountain clan has 150 members worth of contributions to make up for. And it's a lot easier to get a close-knit small group to farm for samples than it is to get a large clan to do so.

[dashashou]

atm at this point i'm just wonder how long till DE closes this thread  down , saying yea we heard you but we don't care . 

[Liminal]

2 hours ago, ChameleonBro said:

From what I remember DE Rebbeca said that they won't be doing these crazy costs in the future. I hope they stay true to their word.

Well, they said the same after the Sibear if I remember correctly... and here we are. I think we can all agree this is much worse than 30k cryotic.

And more recently we got the dual primes thing they also said they were not going to do anymore. I honestly cannot believe them anymore.

[VirtualViolet]

4 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

it's like we don't have 57 pages of arguing against everything you just posted, god...but let's go over it, i need to vent.

1) more or less we all agree we DON'T need it immediately. stretching the goal to MONTHS or more is bit unreasonable for casual players. 'you are not wanted here, filthy casual'. especially when DE admited they looked at what players have least of, which is just frick-frack you to all time veterans spent in game, because apparently it's not enough. im not advocating every newbie should get everything immediately. but after 2-3k hours? yeah, i think some leeway is deserved.

2) if it's just one weapon, and not even extraordinary powerful, there is no justification for such ridiculous cost.

3)unless DE decides to lock future content behind it. unless they sign some legaly binding contract that promises to never ever do that, i'm operating under assumption that they eventually will. 

3) derelict. farm 2 nodes, with optimized squad setup, after all the nerfs and changes meant to prevent that. because farming is not playing the game, and DE wants us to play the game above all. doesn't matter if you do it every day or once a week, it's still farming one specific place. we have no choice here at all.

4) boosters should be here for player convenience, not forced on us to make any meaningful progress. 

5) that's good for you, but i'd wager there isn't lot of people in your boat. proof: this thread and others that were merged into this one.

6) telling DE this is okay, we are encouraging them to keep going in this direction. 'yes, DE, i have 500 cells after 3 years, please make next thing cost 2k. please'

 

 

Look, my point is this: DE has already received the message. They know that many players are upset about the cost, and they have made the decision not to change it this time. Quite frankly, I would be surprised if they made anything this costly to research in the future. Possibly higher than the usual cost, but nothing this extreme.

Continuing to complain is futile, and a little childish IMO.

[plexus_brachialis]

2 minutes ago, VirtualViolet said:

Look, my point is this: DE has already received the message. (...)

 I would be surprised if they made anything this costly to research in the future. (...)

Continuing to complain is futile, and a little childish IMO.

yeah they received. and then brought baro exclusive relics. like they didn't know it wouldn't get them more negativity.

I would be more surprised if they didn't honestly, considering how they like to change their philosophy at every turn and find excuses. tbh their behavior is childish and irresponsible here.

[notlamprey]

9 minutes ago, VirtualViolet said:

Look, my point is this: DE has already received the message. They know that many players are upset about the cost, and they have made the decision not to change it this time. Quite frankly, I would be surprised if they made anything this costly to research in the future. Possibly higher than the usual cost, but nothing this extreme.

Continuing to complain is futile, and a little childish IMO.

I disagree.

Life is full of pressures that require constant effort and attention, or else we run into problems.

We feed ourselves several times a day, sleep daily, bathe regularly, and so on. On the political side of things, we might speak out for years and years in support of a cause even in direct opposition to the stated intent of political figures.

Going to the logical extreme, the universe itself seems to be intent on reaching maximum entropy, but we or some others like us will still find it in their best interest to "politely disagree."

A statement of intent does not preclude the right to disagree. I disagree because I'm interested in the long-term health of the game, and the ability of more players to have more fun playing it. As long as we voice our concerns respectfully, we are absolutely within our rights to do so.

Edited January 29, 2017 by notlamprey
there's always a typo somewhere, isn't there?

[VirtualViolet]

2 minutes ago, plexus_brachialis said:

yeah they received. and then brought baro exclusive relics. like they didn't know it wouldn't get them more negativity.

I would be more surprised if they didn't honestly, considering how they like to change their philosophy at every turn and find excuses. tbh their behavior is childish and irresponsible here.

I don't know what the Aklex has to do with this topic. I bought 15 of those relics before I realized that there were only two pieces exclusive to them (the blueprint and link), and was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to get.

[ChuckMaverick]

10 minutes ago, VirtualViolet said:

Look, my point is this: DE has already received the message. They know that many players are upset about the cost, and they have made the decision not to change it this time. Quite frankly, I would be surprised if they made anything this costly to research in the future. Possibly higher than the usual cost, but nothing this extreme.

Continuing to complain is futile, and a little childish IMO.

I watched Steve's stream from last Sunday earlier today, and in it he responded to questions from chat about the Hema by saying that the team were still discussing it.

So I don't think this particular story is over just yet.

[VirtualViolet]

4 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

I disagree.

Life is full of pressures that require constant effort and attention, or else we run into problems.

We feed ourselves several times a day, sleep daily, bathe regularly, and so on. On the political side of things, we might speak out for years and years in support of a cause even in direct opposition to the stated intent of political figures.

Going to the logical extreme, the universe itself seems to be intent on reaching maximum entropy, but we or some others like us will still find it in their best interest to "politely disagree."

A statement of intent does not preclude the right to disagree. I disagree because I'm interested in the long-term health of the game, and the ability of more players to have more fun playing it. As long as we voice our concerns respectfully, we are absolutely within our rights to do so.

Fair enough. I'm just a little tired of hearing people say things like "I refuse to do X until DE makes it easier." That is what seems childish to me.

[plexus_brachialis]

4 minutes ago, VirtualViolet said:

I don't know what the Aklex has to do with this topic. I bought 15 of those relics before I realized that there were only two pieces exclusive to them (the blueprint and link), and was pleasantly surprised at how easy it was to get.

'lets bring time limited, RNG riddled chance of getting a thing while people are still mad over hema, that'll show we're commited to making less grind'

you got lucky. doesn't mean RNG isn't a thing in this game and there are people who spent their ducats to get nothing worthwhile. with no chance to get it again for god knows how long, apart from forking over cash. 

[notlamprey]

1 minute ago, VirtualViolet said:

Fair enough. I'm just a little tired of hearing people say things like "I refuse to do X until DE makes it easier." That is what seems childish to me.

It's probably going a bit far to say those things, sure.

Boy, if anyone were to dig back far enough through my activity on these forums... _{please let those shames be buried}

I wouldn't blame anyone for being irritated with what seems to be a confrontational attitude on the part of the players, and I don't have anywhere near enough information to be making statements about trends in "who says what" around here, but I can at least speak for myself here.

After almost four years of reading and participating in discussions on these forums, maybe I've just built up a resistance to it - I just keep moving until I see a point at which I think productive conversation can happen. This community is huge, and so many of us - yes, even the chronic complainers like myself - just want to see the game get better.

tl;dr I don't blame you for being annoyed.

[Naskoni]

59 minutes ago, VirtualViolet said:

Look, my point is this: DE has already received the message. They know that many players are upset about the cost, and they have made the decision not to change it this time. Quite frankly, I would be surprised if they made anything this costly to research in the future. Possibly higher than the usual cost, but nothing this extreme.

Continuing to complain is futile, and a little childish IMO.

"Complaining?" How dare we!? This forum is only for making compliments!

And you think continuing to "complain" even though so far nothing has changed, other than the ridiculousness of the excuses coming from DE, is "childish", but telling us that we are infantile because we disagree with the direction of the game is not?

[bl4ckhunter]

1 hour ago, Ravel7 said:

atm at this point i'm just wonder how long till DE closes this thread  down , saying yea we heard you but we don't care . 

they can't close this thread down, this is the garbage dump of all the hema complains that pop up in the forums all day long, the place where the mods sweep the stuff they don't want out in the air, they close this down and it'll spill all over the forum again, that's the problem with sweeping stuff under the rug, you do it too many times and eventually the rug starts looking like mount everest.

 

1 hour ago, VirtualViolet said:

Continuing to complain is futile, and a little childish IMO.

“Dripping water hollows out stone, not through force but through persistence.” if we want them to change it this is quite literally the only way, it is neither futile nor childish, it's the only option.

[Ikusias]

Honestly all latest choices by the dev team have been ... objectonable, difficult to find a more fitting term without offending someone sensibility.

While before they listened to reasonable complaints and critiques, they have now become entrenched in their convinction that all it's good and fine as they see it...

How sadly mistaken

Sooner or lather their laughs at our expenses will turn in grief and tears while what they built crumbles under their mistakes.

I will be there to laugh in their faces then