Bullets will rain (Minigun Request)

[Arniox]

+1 I second

Much love. Would want. Many need :P

[Sador1978]

6 hours ago, ChaosMatrix said:

This is my dream.

They can call it the "Crazy Steve"!

[CityOfTrees]

Ima be honest here.

Put heavy cal on your soma and you basically have a minigun...that looks like a funky machine gun with a very specific magazine system.

 

I feel that the main feature of minuguns should be NO MAGAZINES. Just empty it straight out of the ammo pool. If it's an arm weapon that takes up all slots, ALL THE BETTER.

[Night4ce]

"Ninjas can't be stealthy with a heavy mini gun."

Me: Dude, there is a hush mod.. These ninjas have silent heavy mini guns.

*imagines 6 silencers on the 6 barrels on the mini gun*

 

To be honest, the closest we got is the Gorgon. It's rotating barrels are in a protective casing. Would love a HUGE magazine belt fed gun though. Suppression fire for days.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Night4ce

[ChaosMatrix]

35 minutes ago, Night4ce said:

"Ninjas can't be stealthy with a heavy mini gun."

Me: Dude, there is a hush mod.. These ninjas have silent heavy mini guns.

*imagines 6 silencers on the 6 barrels on the mini gun*

 

To be honest, the closest we got is the Gorgon. It's rotating barrels are in a protective casing. Would love a HUGE magazine belt fed gun though. Suppression fire for days.

Why is everyone giving up? "Oh we have X, its not a minigun, but we can imagine that it is". Perish those thoughts! I will continue to fight hard until our dreams are realized! A minigun for ever tenno! A hail of bullets for every grineer!

[Mover-NeRo]

9 hours ago, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

I do have a 6 forma supra with 190 multishot and increased fire rate.  As close as the game gets.  I love spray and pray weapons.  

I want a minigun.  Something with a belt feed animation would be cool.

These are rookie numbers...  I have 8 forma Supra. And for some real fun use all fire rate and MS mods (like my riven with FR and MS) and mirage and let the bullets fill the screen!!

[LordLokai]

we do need more daka! more daka is always good! funny my clan was talking about this today when i was using my supra.... and we all whole heatedly agree! MORE DAKA!

[ChuckMaverick]

It would be pretty cool, but for balance reasons you'd need to move as slowly as if you had a hobbled dragon key equipped, and not be able to bullet jump.

[RoninJed]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

I do have a 6 forma supra with 190 multishot and increased fire rate.  As close as the game gets.  I love spray and pray weapons.  

I want a minigun.  Something with a belt feed animation would be cool.

Hehe I know exactly what your talking about. Riven mods definitely helped the supra shine more too.

[Ailissa]

Make my Predator dreams come true....

 

Make me a sexual tyrannosaurus, make me Blainette.

[(PSN)FriendSharkey]

Old Painless needs to happen, while at it add a corporus version so we can get our Terminator 1... Blue Laser Mini-Gun from the Kyle Reese's dream sequence fix as well. 

[Smilomaniac]

DE will likely never add "cool factor" heavy weapons because it runs contrary to the overall style of the game.
You might counter this by saying "immersion is dead anyway", however there's a difference between occasionally running into someone using a minigun, over the shoulder rocket launcher or actual cannon (bigger than the Zarr) and seeing them constantly due to new meta.

The fact of the matter is that if they were to introduce something like a minigun, it would all have to make sense:

1. A new "Heavy Weapon" category would have be added, with its own list of mods. - If not, then for the Minigun to be powerful enough for you to want to use it, would likely outclass all other primary weapons by the sheer virtue of existing mods.
2. They would require feedback that is reflected by sound, animation and damage output.
3. They would have to be off-set by restrictions and/or downsides, such as disabling bullet jumping while held.
4. They would have to be added to new enemies to enforce the idea that these are actually used in the world we play in.
5. New "bullet sponge" enemies that can still be tactically defeated with regular weapons would also be a prudent, if not necessary introduction to the game.

Even if you don't respect it, you have to understand that when you jump and fly all over rooms, your character is supposed to feel like a tactical and meticulous specialist that take down groups of enemies with skill and precision, not by laying down cover fire. DE will almost certainly not implement anything like this in the way I described above, because it runs counter to what they want to make. They might still add a minigun, but it would have to be near pitiful as standard.

Also remember, we do have some heavy weapons in the form of archwing weaponry, which is not used as standard due to their weight. While people have done calculations as to how absurdly strong warframes are, that's supposed to be within suspension of disbelief.

-

While having said all that, I'd love for 3-4 new heavy weapons along with the redesign of existing ones (Zarr, Supra, Opticor, Ogris, Gorgon) to be added to the game, hopefully with a new set of mods and "rules" to use them.
I primarily use the Sancti Tigris because I've loved double barreled shotguns since Doom 2 - the personal feedback for these weapons have mostly been awesome and respected throughout gaming history, and due to their very simple rules versus performance, they work brilliantly. I wasn't too fond of the duplex trigger, but I've learned to love it.
If heavy weapons are introduced with a similar feel to them, then my fun with this game would easily double.

[ChaosMatrix]

2 hours ago, Smilomaniac said:

DE will likely never add "cool factor" heavy weapons because it runs contrary to the overall style of the game.
You might counter this by saying "immersion is dead anyway", however there's a difference between occasionally running into someone using a minigun, over the shoulder rocket launcher or actual cannon (bigger than the Zarr) and seeing them constantly due to new meta.

The fact of the matter is that if they were to introduce something like a minigun, it would all have to make sense:

1. A new "Heavy Weapon" category would have be added, with its own list of mods. - If not, then for the Minigun to be powerful enough for you to want to use it, would likely outclass all other primary weapons by the sheer virtue of existing mods.
2. They would require feedback that is reflected by sound, animation and damage output.
3. They would have to be off-set by restrictions and/or downsides, such as disabling bullet jumping while held.
4. They would have to be added to new enemies to enforce the idea that these are actually used in the world we play in.
5. New "bullet sponge" enemies that can still be tactically defeated with regular weapons would also be a prudent, if not necessary introduction to the game.

Even if you don't respect it, you have to understand that when you jump and fly all over rooms, your character is supposed to feel like a tactical and meticulous specialist that take down groups of enemies with skill and precision, not by laying down cover fire. DE will almost certainly not implement anything like this in the way I described above, because it runs counter to what they want to make. They might still add a minigun, but it would have to be near pitiful as standard.

Also remember, we do have some heavy weapons in the form of archwing weaponry, which is not used as standard due to their weight. While people have done calculations as to how absurdly strong warframes are, that's supposed to be within suspension of disbelief.

-

While having said all that, I'd love for 3-4 new heavy weapons along with the redesign of existing ones (Zarr, Supra, Opticor, Ogris, Gorgon) to be added to the game, hopefully with a new set of mods and "rules" to use them.
I primarily use the Sancti Tigris because I've loved double barreled shotguns since Doom 2 - the personal feedback for these weapons have mostly been awesome and respected throughout gaming history, and due to their very simple rules versus performance, they work brilliantly. I wasn't too fond of the duplex trigger, but I've learned to love it.
If heavy weapons are introduced with a similar feel to them, then my fun with this game would easily double.

I disagree, DE has added plenty of fun weapons merely for the cool factor, the latest of which, the throwable lance. Also remember that warframes are suits made of infested stuff that are many times stronger than a person, so they wouldnt be subjected to the same shortcomings as a regular joe when handling a minigun. Also there dont need to be any "rules" simply because you want them or you think DE would only add it with them, we already have several large sized guns that warframes carry around, the opticor its pretty huge and so is the supra, without counting weapons that are long like the gorgon.

 

What you are saying is simply "Give up and settle for what we have because its my opinion that a minigun would never be added", which is kinda rubbish, mate. Its a game and fun factor is one of the main considerations in making stuff for a game, if enough interest is shown, DE will add what the players want because they have done so in the past, its just a matter of perseverance.

[Smilomaniac]

9 minutes ago, ChaosMatrix said:

I disagree, DE has added plenty of fun weapons merely for the cool factor, the latest of which, the throwable lance. Also remember that warframes are suits made of infested stuff that are many times stronger than a person, so they wouldnt be subjected to the same shortcomings as a regular joe when handling a minigun. Also there dont need to be any "rules" simply because you want them or you think DE would only add it with them, we already have several large sized guns that warframes carry around, the opticor its pretty huge and so is the supra, without counting weapons that are long like the gorgon.

 

You disagree and think that they would add fun heavy weapons, because they added the Javlok? That makes no sense at all - at no point whatsoever did I say they would never add a fun weapon in general and there is no way that the Javlok is comparable, when it's obviously not a heavy weapon that could burst everything down in sight, which would be the principle idea of having a frickin minigun.

That's distilling my entire post down to something I didn't say at all, without addressing the things I did say, which is to consider the consequences of adding weapons that might create new "meta" weapons that many players would constantly use. I even explained why they would likely become a new meta nuisance.

Would you want a pea-shooter minigun that effectively acts like an unmodded MK1 Furis with a 1500 magazine? No? Then consider the points of what I actually wrote, which I did to explain what would likely have to be done, in order to do it right.

Regarding the Warframe strength, you must have skimmed through my post. I mean, I can't possibly imagine you would write that response to me, when I specifically addressed what you are saying.
I can't even...

23 minutes ago, ChaosMatrix said:

What you are saying is simply "Give up and settle for what we have because its my opinion that a minigun would never be added", which is kinda rubbish, mate. Its a game and fun factor is one of the main considerations in making stuff for a game, if enough interest is shown, DE will add what the players want because they have done so in the past, its just a matter of perseverance.

What I did was provide ample amounts of arguments as to why it's unlikely that DE wouldn't simply add a minigun, because it's their job to consider the ramifications of throwing another weapon in there and have it be balanced compared to the rest of the arsenal we have. In what world is that "rubbish"?

Do you think I'm just throwing peoples dreams and hopes under the bus because I want to one up others? Or could it be that I'm trying to explain to you what's reasonable when considering game design and maybe inspire some better suggestions for content?

It has to make sense. If we go by your logic of "it's just a game and we have to make it fun", when why not remove all grinding, all mission types and weapons and simply give everyone a minigun they can use on exterminate missions? That'd be fun, right? I mean sure, only for about fifteen minutes and it would be the death of the game from that point on, but hey, fun is the "main consideration" after all.

Come on dude... I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but at least bring some arguments to the table instead of dismissing everything I say...

Also, just constantly begging DE to add something because you want it, is not a good thing. Stop saying it as if it is.
 

[ChaosMatrix]

41 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:

You disagree and think that they would add fun heavy weapons, because they added the Javlok? That makes no sense at all - at no point whatsoever did I say they would never add a fun weapon in general and there is no way that the Javlok is comparable, when it's obviously not a heavy weapon that could burst everything down in sight, which would be the principle idea of having a frickin minigun.

That's distilling my entire post down to something I didn't say at all, without addressing the things I did say, which is to consider the consequences of adding weapons that might create new "meta" weapons that many players would constantly use. I even explained why they would likely become a new meta nuisance.

Would you want a pea-shooter minigun that effectively acts like an unmodded MK1 Furis with a 1500 magazine? No? Then consider the points of what I actually wrote, which I did to explain what would likely have to be done, in order to do it right.

Regarding the Warframe strength, you must have skimmed through my post. I mean, I can't possibly imagine you would write that response to me, when I specifically addressed what you are saying.
I can't even...

What I did was provide ample amounts of arguments as to why it's unlikely that DE wouldn't simply add a minigun, because it's their job to consider the ramifications of throwing another weapon in there and have it be balanced compared to the rest of the arsenal we have. In what world is that "rubbish"?

Do you think I'm just throwing peoples dreams and hopes under the bus because I want to one up others? Or could it be that I'm trying to explain to you what's reasonable when considering game design and maybe inspire some better suggestions for content?

It has to make sense. If we go by your logic of "it's just a game and we have to make it fun", when why not remove all grinding, all mission types and weapons and simply give everyone a minigun they can use on exterminate missions? That'd be fun, right? I mean sure, only for about fifteen minutes and it would be the death of the game from that point on, but hey, fun is the "main consideration" after all.

Come on dude... I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but at least bring some arguments to the table instead of dismissing everything I say...

Also, just constantly begging DE to add something because you want it, is not a good thing. Stop saying it as if it is.
 

It is obvious that there is some misunderstandings going on between you and I, and thats perfectly alright. Lets address a couple of them to see if we can reach an agreement.

 

First, you are making large assumptions about what a minigun weapon would be in a game with laser cannons and rocket launchers. Just because its a minigun doesnt means that it has to be a large monster thats extremly overpowered, or a shy little pea shooter, thats neither the focus of this discussion nor is it our job to figure out how it would work or what stats it would have, thats the Developer's job, so arguing about this point its moot. The game already, by the way, has minigun weapons on the Kuva fortress turrets, so they must already have some idea about how miniguns work, plus the developer team is made out of several people, not just one, which increases the scope of their capacity to apply any idea into the game and make it viable. Your arguments about why DE cant or wont do something, are based sorely on your perception of their ability and your perception of what a minigun is. Many games have miniguns and they dont all behave the same way, so your comment about making it "right", seems to be based sorely on your personal preference for that kind of weapon. This is not a post about the spreadsheet details of the weapon, this is simply a post asking DE to consider making it, the details are up to them.

 

Second, fun does not means "extremly overpowered", fun means fun. If you are looking for extremly overpowered, you have the boltor prime, fun means weapons that while not necesarly for endgame, are fun to use, either because of the weapon effect, or because they have some kind of gimmik, which is what I thought you meant by fun. The lance has the throwable gimmik, and that in my eyes, is a fun feature.

 

Third, asking for anyone to consider anything does not equal begging. I am not the first person to make a request of DE, people who asked for sword and shield weapons were not beggars, and neither are we. You claim to not be throwing anyone's dreams under the bus, but your demeaning way in which you reffered to my actions as "begging", shows a disdain towards me and the others who have shown interest in having this weapon added to the game, this is what I mean when I said rubbish, you appear to have a negativity towards this post for negativity's sake. Every reason you have listed its based sorely on assumptions, and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, this post is simply for people to show their interest in a minigun for warframe.

 

I hope I have addressed your concerns and well as provided a clear indication of the purpose of this post. I look forward to your reply so that we can continue to clear up our views in this regard.

Edited January 4, 2017 by ChaosMatrix

[Smilomaniac]

14 minutes ago, ChaosMatrix said:

It is obvious that there is some misunderstandings going on between you and I, and thats perfectly alright. Lets address a couple of them to see if we can reach an agreement.

There is no misunderstanding, you're addressing my post because you disagree with it. There is no agreement to be reached, because you can't make me compromise my contribution to this thread because you disagree with it.
You are under the assumption that there is a compromise to be reached between what you want and what I want, however this is not and will never be the case.

You want a weapon to be added to the game and leaving details up to the developers. It has nothing to do with what I wrote. And yes, I agree, disagreeing is completely fine. Your responses to my post however, are in my opinion not.

Quote

First, you are making large assumptions about what a minigun weapon would be in a game with laser cannons and rocket launchers. Just because its a minigun doesnt means that it has to be a large monster thats extremly overpowered, or a shy little pea shooter, thats neither the focus of this discussion nor is it our job to figure out how it would work or what stats it would have, thats the Developer's job, so arguing about this point its moot.

I'm making the assumption that people in general want a slow-walking animation as you use a loud and rapidly spinning gun that gives you the impression of being powerful as well as actually being not just effective, but powerful. That is the foundation of which I'm building on because it's a reasonable assumption.
You seem to not agree with this assumption, because it's a hindrance to the weapon being added to the game, which is your wish. I may be wrong, but that's the general gist of what I'm getting from you.
Debating how it would function in the game is very relevant, because it's a factor in my explanation of why I think it's unlikely to be added. Since you're replying to my post, it is the opposite of moot and in fact very relevant.

Quote

The game already, by the way, has minigun weapons on the Kuva fortress turrets, so they must already have some idea about how miniguns work, plus the developer team is made out of several people, not just one, which increases the scope of their capacity to apply any idea into the game and make it viable. Your arguments about why DE cant or wont do something, are based sorely on your perception of their ability and your perception of what a minigun is. Many games have miniguns and they dont all behave the same way, so your comment about making it "right", seems to be based sorely on your personal preference for that kind of weapon.

The Kuva fortress "miniguns" (which they are not, as they're permanent fixtures an not personal weapons) could be a basis to build a weapon on, design-wise. To equate those with knowing how a minigun "works" is ridiculous, but it's irrelevant to what I wrote so I'm not going to touch more on that. If you wanted my opinion specifically on that, here you have it.

My arguments as to why DE would unlikely add a specific heavy weapon to the game, are based on reasonable deduction, experiences within the game along with the overall design of it, such as bulky heavy weapons not being a part of the game so far. You may repeat yourself and say "gorgon" but I disagree that it is a viable comparison, when the weapon is barely a third the size of what a belt-fed machinegun would be.
Many games have various parodies of miniguns, which are unrelated to Warframe as they are typically used in over the top styles and not in the graceful semi-realistic handling that Warframe typically uses for its weapons. Mind you I'm not calling Warframe realistic, I'm saying it's meant to be percieved as somewhat realistic when handling weapons, even if it's not always the case - Introducing a heavy weapon that you can willy-nilly fire and jump around with would be counter to the design so far, which is the point I'm making.
My preference as to how the weapon should be portrayed in this specific game may coincide with how I think it would also be best represented, but is not relevant to what I wrote.

Quote

This is not a post about the spreadsheet details of the weapon, this is simply a post asking DE to consider making it, the details are up to them.

I have not made a spreadsheet with details of the weapon.
By "this post" I hope you mean "this thread", otherwise you're dictating what I should be writing - If you mean "this thread", then you're dictating what the thread is about and trying to shut down my post by repeatedly calling it something it's not.

Quote

Second, fun does not means "extremly overpowered", fun means fun.

Irrelevant, you started throwing the word "fun" around, I never did other than to state that I indeed thought it would be fun for there to be a heavy weapon class. Something you've not even taken into account.
I've never used the words "extremely overpowered" - if you want to reasonably debate with anyone, putting words in their mouth is the fastest way to to shut it down.
Even if you're not saying that I specifically wrote those words, you're implying that I meant the introduction of the weapon would be extremely overpowered, when I wrote that the weapon would become the new meta, which is not an unreasonable assumption to make based on my thoughts on it.
In short, stick to what people actually write, not what you think you're reading.

Quote

If you are looking for extremly overpowered, you have the boltor prime, fun means weapons that while not necesarly for endgame, are fun to use, either because of the weapon effect, or because they have some kind of gimmik, which is what I thought you meant by fun. The lance has the throwable gimmik, and that in my eyes, is a fun feature.

In other words you think it may as well be a mid-tier or mastery junk as long as it's fun to use. My counter argument would be that it wouldn't be fun to use if it were clearly ineffectual. If it were merely okay, then it would not be accurately portraying what's generally/colloquially known as a powerful weapon, in other words, this doesn't apply or relate to what I wrote when I gave an example on how to do it right.

If you don't care about it being done right, then fine, just say that.

Quote

Third, asking for anyone to consider anything does not equal begging. I am not the first person to make a request of DE, people who asked for sword and shield weapons were not beggars, and neither are we.

...persisting in asking for something based on the premise that you will get a result you want "because they've done it before", means begging in my eyes. You're now calling it "asking". Sure, whatever you want, it has nothing to do with me.

Quote

You claim to not be throwing anyone's dreams under the bus, but your demeaning way in which you reffered to my actions as "begging", shows a disdain towards me and the others who have shown interest in having this weapon added to the game, this is what I mean when I said rubbish, you appear to have a negativity towards this post for negativity's sake. Every reason you have listed its based sorely on assumptions, and while everyone is entitled to their opinion, this post is simply for people to show their interest in a minigun for warframe.

I'm sorry you took it that way, when it was clearly not meant like that, however that's your error, not mine.
As for what I wrote being negative for negativity's sake, that's your interpretation of it. I can only say you took that the wrong way too. I would encourage you to ignore my post, especially if it's upsetting to you.

As for disdain, I have a lot of it when it comes to picking apart what my thoughts on a subject are, only to not counter it at all but just calling it "rubbish", so before you comment on the behaviour of others, it's prudent to start with your own.

Quote

I hope I have addressed your concerns and well as provided a clear indication of the purpose of this post. I look forward to your reply so that we can continue to clear up our views in this regard.

You have not addressed any concerns other than what you may have invented, as I didn't have any. You did not present any counter arguments, nor did you provide any reasonable considerations, certainly none that I find relevant to my post.
You did present a clear purpose which was to disagree with me on no provided basis. I have repeatedly stated my views, so I won't repeat those any further.

As for your view on what this thread is supposed to be about, what the weapon is supposed to be and how anyone should go about it, it's all been noted. Those are your opinions and you should definitely stick to them if you think that's best, but I'm not obligated to agree or to respect any of what you have said, especially when it's in response to me.

You will undoubtedly see this reply as harsh and I've been told by others that I am sometimes exceedingly blunt, but here's the bottom line; I will never pretend to be nice to someone who directly goes after my opinions and tells me I'm wrong or that what I'm saying is rubbish. You taking the time to respond to me at length to further tell me I'm wrong, does even less to improve my disposition. If a moderator happens to come across this back and forth, this topic will almost certainly be locked because it's derailing the topic.

If you for some reason really want to spend even more time on this, either to tell me that I'm being rude or that you have a different view, or that you think I'm wrong, I truly, honestly, recommend you just ignore what I wrote and pretend I never did. Trying to get me to agree with you is a waste of time for you, me and anyone interested in this thread.

[ChaosMatrix]

31 minutes ago, Smilomaniac said:

There is no misunderstanding, you're addressing my post because you disagree with it. There is no agreement to be reached, because you can't make me compromise my contribution to this thread because you disagree with it.
You are under the assumption that there is a compromise to be reached between what you want and what I want, however this is not and will never be the case.

You want a weapon to be added to the game and leaving details up to the developers. It has nothing to do with what I wrote. And yes, I agree, disagreeing is completely fine. Your responses to my post however, are in my opinion not.

I'm making the assumption that people in general want a slow-walking animation as you use a loud and rapidly spinning gun that gives you the impression of being powerful as well as actually being not just effective, but powerful. That is the foundation of which I'm building on because it's a reasonable assumption.
You seem to not agree with this assumption, because it's a hindrance to the weapon being added to the game, which is your wish. I may be wrong, but that's the general gist of what I'm getting from you.
Debating how it would function in the game is very relevant, because it's a factor in my explanation of why I think it's unlikely to be added. Since you're replying to my post, it is the opposite of moot and in fact very relevant.

The Kuva fortress "miniguns" (which they are not, as they're permanent fixtures an not personal weapons) could be a basis to build a weapon on, design-wise. To equate those with knowing how a minigun "works" is ridiculous, but it's irrelevant to what I wrote so I'm not going to touch more on that. If you wanted my opinion specifically on that, here you have it.

My arguments as to why DE would unlikely add a specific heavy weapon to the game, are based on reasonable deduction, experiences within the game along with the overall design of it, such as bulky heavy weapons not being a part of the game so far. You may repeat yourself and say "gorgon" but I disagree that it is a viable comparison, when the weapon is barely a third the size of what a belt-fed machinegun would be.
Many games have various parodies of miniguns, which are unrelated to Warframe as they are typically used in over the top styles and not in the graceful semi-realistic handling that Warframe typically uses for its weapons. Mind you I'm not calling Warframe realistic, I'm saying it's meant to be percieved as somewhat realistic when handling weapons, even if it's not always the case - Introducing a heavy weapon that you can willy-nilly fire and jump around with would be counter to the design so far, which is the point I'm making.
My preference as to how the weapon should be portrayed in this specific game may coincide with how I think it would also be best represented, but is not relevant to what I wrote.

I have not made a spreadsheet with details of the weapon.
By "this post" I hope you mean "this thread", otherwise you're dictating what I should be writing - If you mean "this thread", then you're dictating what the thread is about and trying to shut down my post by repeatedly calling it something it's not.

Irrelevant, you started throwing the word "fun" around, I never did other than to state that I indeed thought it would be fun for there to be a heavy weapon class. Something you've not even taken into account.
I've never used the words "extremely overpowered" - if you want to reasonably debate with anyone, putting words in their mouth is the fastest way to to shut it down.
Even if you're not saying that I specifically wrote those words, you're implying that I meant the introduction of the weapon would be extremely overpowered, when I wrote that the weapon would become the new meta, which is not an unreasonable assumption to make based on my thoughts on it.
In short, stick to what people actually write, not what you think you're reading.

In other words you think it may as well be a mid-tier or mastery junk as long as it's fun to use. My counter argument would be that it wouldn't be fun to use if it were clearly ineffectual. If it were merely okay, then it would not be accurately portraying what's generally/colloquially known as a powerful weapon, in other words, this doesn't apply or relate to what I wrote when I gave an example on how to do it right.

If you don't care about it being done right, then fine, just say that.

...persisting in asking for something based on the premise that you will get a result you want "because they've done it before", means begging in my eyes. You're now calling it "asking". Sure, whatever you want, it has nothing to do with me.

I'm sorry you took it that way, when it was clearly not meant like that, however that's your error, not mine.
As for what I wrote being negative for negativity's sake, that's your interpretation of it. I can only say you took that the wrong way too. I would encourage you to ignore my post, especially if it's upsetting to you.

As for disdain, I have a lot of it when it comes to picking apart what my thoughts on a subject are, only to not counter it at all but just calling it "rubbish", so before you comment on the behaviour of others, it's prudent to start with your own.

You have not addressed any concerns other than what you may have invented, as I didn't have any. You did not present any counter arguments, nor did you provide any reasonable considerations, certainly none that I find relevant to my post.
You did present a clear purpose which was to disagree with me on no provided basis. I have repeatedly stated my views, so I won't repeat those any further.

As for your view on what this thread is supposed to be about, what the weapon is supposed to be and how anyone should go about it, it's all been noted. Those are your opinions and you should definitely stick to them if you think that's best, but I'm not obligated to agree or to respect any of what you have said, especially when it's in response to me.

You will undoubtedly see this reply as harsh and I've been told by others that I am sometimes exceedingly blunt, but here's the bottom line; I will never pretend to be nice to someone who directly goes after my opinions and tells me I'm wrong or that what I'm saying is rubbish. You taking the time to respond to me at length to further tell me I'm wrong, does even less to improve my disposition. If a moderator happens to come across this back and forth, this topic will almost certainly be locked because it's derailing the topic.

If you for some reason really want to spend even more time on this, either to tell me that I'm being rude or that you have a different view, or that you think I'm wrong, I truly, honestly, recommend you just ignore what I wrote and pretend I never did. Trying to get me to agree with you is a waste of time for you, me and anyone interested in this thread.

Actually I find myself agreeing with you more on several points the more I read your posts. And in all honestly, being blunt acutally helps to further my understanding of the message that you are trying to impart to me. I take no offense, and actually do enjoy arguments, it helps to better understand the person and the message that they are trying to convey, if you get offended, or give up, then you learn nothing. However, while I agree that you have no obligation to agree with me in any of what I've said, lets keep respect going for both ends, I will excersice greater cauting on the words that I employ for this end, as the use of the word rubbish is being taken in its actual context, rather than the one I had intended.

That being said, I see now that your opinion was meant to be constructive rather than meant to obstruct, I made the mistake of taking your early comments as an attack agaisnt the thread and for that, my apologies. In the past I have meet with people making negative replies simply to derail the thread, and while not an excuse, my responce was heavily influenced by that.

I will admit that I was mistaken in a great many things, first of which, the heavy class idea you mentioned, I had completly failed to take it into account, and upon further restrospective, it is as you said, I dismissed it thinking that it would hinder my desire to get the weapon added. The idea is sound, fun, because as you just said, being hindered while using the weapon, makes you feel powerful, which also goes in hand with your next point, he semi-realistic nature of the gear in warframe. I also took the time to search previous fan added content on warframe and noticed that a lot of it was fleshed out very well before the devs picked it up, so there is tangible value in discussing the mechanics of the weapon if the endgoal is to have the devs be interested in it. My simplistic method of simply getting the weapon in at all costs and to leave the details to devs was regretfully of a small scope, insuficient for the goal at hand.

However regardless if other see its as begging or not, perhaps someday, with or without my persistence, if a minigun does get added, it will be a happy day indeed, but until that day comes, I shall continue, not as I have, but to a greater degree, because now I have become more aware of what is needed and thanks to you, there is a new idea to be considered. Personally, I want to thank you for taking the time to continue the discussion, for it has oppened my eyes to what is really needed and for bringing to the light, my own shortcommings.