How much status to reach 100% on Tigris Prime?

[GravesTheOutlaw]

I calculated 234%.  Is this correct?  Asking because I'm pretty sure it's impossible to find a Tigris Riven with 54% status given its disposition.  Thanks.

[Synpai]

While that may be true, let's be real. Having 100% is overrated since status is per bullet and SGs are scatter guns with 120% multishot....you'd be better off finding a Multishot riven and calling it a day.

[beckettb]

2 minutes ago, Synpai said:

While that may be true, let's be real. Having 100% is overrated since status is per bullet and SGs are scatter guns with 120% multishot....you'd be better off finding a Multishot riven and calling it a day.

while status chances under 100% will split the status per pellet, if you have 100%, it will apply full status on every pellet.

[-Amaterasu-]

It has a 30% chance so you would need +233.333...% rounds down to 233% so, yes you're correct.

[ashrah]

status is split between each pellet  i use all 4 status mod to be  100%   now many ppl dont know this but for example if u hve  about 94%status on gun lot ppl would think that is enought but   u end up with 46% status in total per each pellet so its very important to be 100%

[-Fe-McHamm3rShot]

This is a good question, and maybe brings up a bigger point.

Is it time for DE to look at how status is applied when dealing with shottys?  The way I see it, is if you can achieve 100% status on a shotgun, that status should be be global per pellet.  (I think it was forever ago if I'm not mistaken) before a damage re-work was done.

Shotguns suffer from damage efficiency in general (not all pellets hitting) which is fine, they are Scatter Guns.  But let's say I achieve 100% status fire damage.  In my mind that shell shoots incendiary pellets (each of which are on fire) shouldn't each one of those "be on fire"?

Maybe this has been addressed not sure, but I'd like to see status on shottys get some love.

Thoughts? 

[Khanhls123]

14 minutes ago, Synpai said:

While that may be true, let's be real. Having 100% is overrated since status is per bullet and SGs are scatter guns with 120% multishot....you'd be better off finding a Multishot riven and calling it a day

status work diffrent on shotgun , if you have like say 99% status and 10 pellet then each pellet will have 9,9% status change , but if you have 100% status then somehow (idk why) every pellet will proc status

Edited January 5, 2017 by Khanhls124

[-BM-Mitz]

I personally build with all 4 dual stat mods for a viral/radiation combo. The 4 mods total at 240% status so you reach 100% total and every pellet procs with decent slash procs on each shot.

[Xzorn]

Status Trigger per shot is calculated as:

Status Trigger = Number of Pellets * (1- (1- Status Chance) ^ (1 / Number of Pellets)

To give a comparison of 100% Status Vs 99% status.

100% Status = 1.0
Status Trigger = 8 * (1- (1- 1.0) ^ 1/8)
8 * (1- 0) = 8

99% Status = 0.99
Status Trigger = 8 * (1- (1- .99) ^ 1/8) =
8 * (1- 0.56234) = 3.5

I believe it's possible to get 54% status on a faint Riven but you may need a negative stat to boost it. Can't say for sure.

I've hardly seen +%status as a roll. Cuz I want it for my Braton Prime and Paracyst.

 

[Xekrin]

24 minutes ago, -Fe-McHamm3rShot said:

Is it time for DE to look at how status is applied when dealing with shottys?

Not attempting to derail the topic or anything but beam weapons have a lot more issues in the status dept than shotguns.  While 100% status per pellet is assuredly awesome, considering the damage shotguns put out, its  hardly a major problem.

Beam weapons OTOH are just awful at it and damage as well in almost every case.

Carry on.

[InsomnIaC.]

OP, I've wanted to message you since I saw you on Trading Post looking for a status Tigris Riven, but felt it'd have been awkward to suddenly message you out of the blue.

I'm glad you asked this here because i finally have the chance to rant about how uninformed and oblivious traders ESPECIALLY on in-game trade chat can be explain what stats you should be looking for on a Tigris riven and why.

For starters, let's look at some noteworthy traits of the Tigris Prime's base stats:

- High base status chance of 30%

- Relatively high reload time of 1.8s, with duplex-shot action

- Mediocre critical chance at 10%, and average critical damage multiplier at 2.0x

Now, in particular, for status - you're going to need a Riven with a status chance modifier of at least 53.4% to replace a 60/60 dual elemental/status mod on the Tigris Prime.

As others have explained above, to reach the 100% status threshold, you'll need a status modifier of +233.4% on top of the base: (100%-30%)/30% = 70/30 = 2.334 = 233.4%), which means you'll need either A) 4 60/60 mods B) 3 60/60 mods and the aforementioned 53.4% status riven.

The problem is, 53.4% status Tigris rivens either don't exist or are as rare as a unicorn. The highest I've seen so far, and the same one you retracted your offer for in Trading Post, is 40+ ish% and you know well that won't make the cut.

Is a 53.4% status Tigris riven truly impossible? I won't rule out the possibility, but it's going to have to have only 2 positive stats and 1 negative for there to even be a remote chance for the magnitude of the roll to go that high.

Sidetrack: If  you're looking to mod on the regular Tigris or Sancti Tigris to get a 100% status chance, you're going to need a status modifier of +300%: (100%-25%)/25% = 75/25 = 3.00 = 300%), which means you'll need a 60% status Tigris riven in addition to your 4 60/60 status mods. This is even more unlikely to find.

So what should you be looking for on a Tigris riven?

(I) The odds of finding a Tigris riven with high enough status chance is abysmally low. For a good Tigris riven, you'll want base damage / multishot as the two mandatory stats.

Afterwards, the next most desirable stats are slash / elemental damage / reload speed, with slash having a higher priority over elemental damage to ensure that the elemental status proc distribution is still in favour of slash for more slash procs on every shot. Reload speed is great for general utility as it means you'll get more damage out over time, especially when dealing with multiple targets.

(II) Critical damage, magazine capacity, and punchthrough are possibly acceptable stats on the riven, depending on your playstyle.

Since there exist artificial ways to buff up your critical chance (Arcane Avenger, Kavats), critical damage might be a viable option if you're looking for that monster burst damage. However, do note that you'll probably be much better off with the stats in the previous 2 paragraphs since the disposition is so low that you're probably only going to be able to find one with a modifier of about at most 70% critical damage boost, which isn't significant when there's already Primed Ravage at 110% crit damage boost.

The same applies to punchthrough (which will probably cap out at around 1.0m) when there's Seeking Fury (1.2m) or Seeking Force (2.1m).

For magazine capacity, 1) firstly, the Riven would need at least +25% magazine capacity for the Tigris to have a 3rd round in chamber 2) you'd have to wait for the fire-rate delay of 0.5s before unloading your 3rd shot and proceeding to reload. I've personally tried with Ammo Stock and don't enjoy the wait time; I feel that one would be much better off simply reloading for another duplex shot.

(III) Positive stats you should not be looking for on a Tigris are: critical chance, fire rate, impact, puncture and as highlighted above, status UNLESS it reaches the 53.4% status threshold. Even if you do manage to find one eventually, there's also the possibility that the disposition might be lowered even further, rendering your mod useless.

(IV) Acceptable negative stats: impact, puncture, fire rate, magazine capacity (not more than -25%), and critical chance (yes, for real). I need not explain the others, but for critical chance in particular, the effect a negative critical chance modifier a Riven can have on the Tigris is so low (say, loss of about 2-4% critical off the base 10%) that it's barely any loss in overall damage output.

---

I've had too many uninformed, oblivious individuals give me utter nonsense and garbage when I've called them out for calling mediocre status Tigris rivens godly, or some that refuse to admit that their Tigris rivens are bad (looking at one particular dude on this forums looking for 2400p on a +magazine capacity +crit chance Tigris riven) even after I've explained why. I hope you won't follow in their footsteps.

IMHO, rather than be angry about them, I'll have to try and accept that there are less informed people in the world and it's their loss at the end of the day. It'll be my gain too if there's some poor sod who decides to devalue a good Tigris riven on his hands and sell it to me just because he thinks +critical chance and +critical damage is the most desirable stats on any Riven regardless of the base stats on the weapon.

 

1 hour ago, Xekrin said:

Not attempting to derail the topic or anything but beam weapons have a lot more issues in the status dept than shotguns.  While 100% status per pellet is assuredly awesome, considering the damage shotguns put out, its  hardly a major problem.

Beam weapons OTOH are just awful at it and damage as well in almost every case.

Carry on.

Xekrin makes a really good point, there's also the possibility that 100% status might just be a magical thing for now and need not necessarily exist forever. In future, with upcoming changes (Damage 3.0, cough) maybe sub-100% status shotguns could still be viable, given how most shotguns and ALL continuous weapons currently have their status mechanics gimped as compared to high fire-rate and status weapons like the Akstiletto Prime.

Hope my post wasn't too long to digest, and most importantly, hope it helps =)

[Xzorn]

29 minutes ago, InsomnIaC. said:

Afterwards, the next most desirable stats are slash / elemental damage / reload speed, with slash having a higher priority over elemental damage to ensure that the elemental status proc distribution is still in favour of slash for more slash procs on every shot. Reload speed is great for general utility as it means you'll get more damage out over time, especially when dealing with multiple targets.

 

This entirely depends on what you're shooting at.

+%Slash only yields better results against Alloy apposed to +%Toxic and mostly in the absence of buffs.

The rest of the elementals are bad IMO but +%Toxic will yield better results in CPx4, Corpus or Infested and about the same against Ferrite due to Corrosive bypassing a portion of Ferrite armor damage resistance. I would agree that most players want the Slash procs for dealing with Alloy but it's important to remember Bleed procs are only increased by very few buffs in the game and If I were going for a long Void run with CPx4 I'd want the +%Toxic for increase Viral damage over Slash.

I'd say they're of equal value.

[InsomnIaC.]

31 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

 

This entirely depends on what you're shooting at.

+%Slash only yields better results against Alloy apposed to +%Toxic and mostly in the absence of buffs.

The rest of the elementals are bad IMO but +%Toxic will yield better results in CPx4, Corpus or Infested and about the same against Ferrite due to Corrosive bypassing a portion of Ferrite armor damage resistance. I would agree that most players want the Slash procs for dealing with Alloy but it's important to remember Bleed procs are only increased by very few buffs in the game and If I were going for a long Void run with CPx4 I'd want the +%Toxic for increase Viral damage over Slash.

I'd say they're of equal value.

I see where you're coming from, and while I do agree that Electricity or Toxin damage might be useful for that added Corrosive damage, or Toxin damage for viral, you and I both know that the bulk of Tigris' killing power in endurance runs comes from the armor-ignoring Finisher-damage type slash procs. (Even without armor, slash procs on a Sweeping Serration build will still do more damage than the initial shot most of the time.)

In a properly modded status Radiation-Viral Tigris Prime, regardless of how much viral damage you have, there's an incredibly low chance that not even one of the pellets will proc the Viral debuff, while the amount of slash damage will determine how many of the pellets will proc for slash. Having more pellets proc for slash as opposed to having more proc for viral will increase the slash damage output over the next 6 seconds at base status duration, with virtually no loss in probability to proc the half-hp viral debuff. This is also why Sweeping Serration is so desirable on a 100% status Tigris Prime.

That being said if you're just looking for raw damage to outright kill rather than wait for it to bleed to death, corrosive against ferrite armor, radiation against alloy armor (when not in 4 CP squads), and viral against Grineer Cloned Flesh (when in 4 CP squads) certainly would prove a better damage type than Slash.

Consensus: Yes, I'd agree they're of equal value, with slightly differing weightage to the different elements depending on which element you're modded for. I'd further argue that Electricity is as useful as Toxin, while Fire and Cold take 2nd place together, but that'll be for another discussion.

Edited January 5, 2017 by InsomnIaC.
Clarity

[Xzorn]

2 hours ago, InsomnIaC. said:

-snip-

 

Electric locks you off from good elemental combos. Toxic gets you Corrosive, Viral and pure Toxic, even Gas if you wanted.

You don't actually want to use Rad + Viral for armored endurance runs without a +%status duration mod and in case of Shotguns they get shafted with a +30% duration mod. Corrosive Blast eventually performs better against Alloy and it's automatically better against Ferrite.

Sweeping Serration is desirable for Tigris but it's not exactly the best choice. You would be better off with Vicious Spread IMO. Higher bleed damage per shot despite the lower Slash proc rate. Sweeping Serration only fits if you don't run Punch-Through, which seems like a bad move for Tigris.

 

[InsomnIaC.]

41 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

-snip-

As it is, any status Tigris Prime already has 6 mandatory mods. (Primed) Point Blank, Hell's Chamber, the 4 60/60 statuses. I agree with most of your points, except for your point that Electricity would lock you out of good elemental combos which I find irrelevant given that the mentioned build will already have electricity on it, all it takes is just shuffling of the mod orders to get the desired element.

Unless, of course, someone finds a Tigris riven with status high enough to replace a 60/60. Then the above is moot.

For a generic Tigris Prime build, on top of the 6 mods mentioned above:

Add on Seeking Fury for punch-through, and you're left with 1 mod slot.

You could use Vicious Spread for more base damage and slash proc damage, Sweeping Serration for more slash procs, or Blaze for the most damage per shot disregarding procs and elemental distribution. In that case, the mod loadout is cramped enough; taking your point into account I'd probably have to add in status duration as one of the desirables on a Tigris Riven, although I hardly think most people would want to have that as a stat since it would only be useful at endurance runs and not as good as other stats on most other missions.

There are a lot of contenders for the last 2 slots in a Tigris Prime loadout, anyhow. Chilling Reload is pretty good too for that extra reload speed, though cold damage ain't fantastic.

 

[ThunderZsolt]

1 hour ago, Xzorn said:

 

Electric locks you off from good elemental combos. Toxic gets you Corrosive, Viral and pure Toxic, even Gas if you wanted.

You don't actually want to use Rad + Viral for armored endurance runs without a +%status duration mod and in case of Shotguns they get shafted with a +30% duration mod. Corrosive Blast eventually performs better against Alloy and it's automatically better against Ferrite.

Sweeping Serration is desirable for Tigris but it's not exactly the best choice. You would be better off with Vicious Spread IMO. Higher bleed damage per shot despite the lower Slash proc rate. Sweeping Serration only fits if you don't run Punch-Through, which seems like a bad move for Tigris.

 

 

What build do you use?
4 dual stat staus mods, primed point blank, hell's chamber, lingering torment and vicious spread?

The highlighted part in your post only applies if you build like I assumed. When using a punch-through mod (i prefer sweeping serration), you have one slot left. As you've said, sweeping serration is not the best choice, so it comes down to lingering torment vs vicious spread.

Lingering torment only adds 30% damage, in the form of longer lasting slash procs. Vicious spread adds 33,9% damage (+90% on top of 265% is a 33,9% increase) and that applies to the base damage too, not just the procs, only at the cost of the negligible accuracy loss.
Also, the enemies will die 33% faster this way, because each damage tick deals more damage instead of having more damage ticks.

 

[Xzorn]

8 hours ago, ThunderZsolt said:

 

What build do you use?
4 dual stat staus mods, primed point blank, hell's chamber, lingering torment and vicious spread?

The highlighted part in your post only applies if you build like I assumed. When using a punch-through mod (i prefer sweeping serration), you have one slot left. As you've said, sweeping serration is not the best choice, so it comes down to lingering torment vs vicious spread.

Lingering torment only adds 30% damage, in the form of longer lasting slash procs. Vicious spread adds 33,9% damage (+90% on top of 265% is a 33,9% increase) and that applies to the base damage too, not just the procs, only at the cost of the negligible accuracy loss.
Also, the enemies will die 33% faster this way, because each damage tick deals more damage instead of having more damage ticks.

 

I use status x4 Corrosive / Blast + Vicious Spread + Seeking Fury for my general use Tigris.

I find Seeking and Vicious works esp well together to give you a slightly better "cone of death" with your shots.

Lingering Torment isn't worth it IMO. The other ones that give +110% are a more viable choice, That's why I said shotguns get shafted.  I was mostly speaking in general terms of the damage types for all weapons and not specifically Tigris. Though in case of other weapons they also have things like Bladed Rounds which are usually better.

[Inarticulate]

14 hours ago, InsomnIaC. said:

you and I both know that the bulk of Tigris' killing power in endurance runs comes from the armor-ignoring Finisher-damage type slash procs.

If you're planning to shoot armored enemies a few times and let them die on their own from Slash proc damage, Viral-Radiation works fine, but if you're planning to focus fire armored enemies until they die, the Corrosive-Blast build will actually take them down noticeably faster.

In particular, I mean a build with Seeking Fury and one of the two +90% Corrosive mods in the two free mod slots, which gives an average of 3 Corrosive procs per shot, enough to make a pretty large difference in the amount of direct damage each shot deals against heavy units.

9 hours ago, ThunderZsolt said:

Lingering torment only adds 30% damage, in the form of longer lasting slash procs. Vicious spread adds 33,9% damage (+90% on top of 265% is a 33,9% increase) and that applies to the base damage too, not just the procs, only at the cost of the negligible accuracy loss.
Also, the enemies will die 33% faster this way, because each damage tick deals more damage instead of having more damage ticks.

On this note, here's the comparison for Sweeping Serration:

With Seeking Fury and Vicious Spread, 56.25% of your pellets will proc Slash. Each instance of direct damage and each slash tick deals 33.96% more damage (compared to a blank mod slot).

With Seeking Fury and Sweeping Serration, 73.88% of your pellets will proc Slash, a 31.3% increase in the number of Slash procs (compared to Vicious Spread). Each instance of direct damage deals 31.76% more damage before damage type effectiveness calculations (compared to a blank mod slot), but this number will be lower in practice due to the disadvantage of Slash damage against armor. The probability of at least one pellet proccing Viral is 89%, but a 99% chance on a full duplex shot is plenty good enough because you'll be emptying at least a full duplex on the heavier units where this actually matters.

Vicious Spread and Sweeping Serration are virtually the same. Sweeping Serration deals a small bit less damage, and Vicious Spread has a slightly wider spread. Both are superior to Lingering Torment.

[Inarticulate]

19 hours ago, Synpai said:

While that may be true, let's be real. Having 100% is overrated since status is per bullet and SGs are scatter guns with 120% multishot....you'd be better off finding a Multishot riven and calling it a day.

 

19 hours ago, beckettb said:

while status chances under 100% will split the status per pellet, if you have 100%, it will apply full status on every pellet.

 

18 hours ago, ashrah said:

status is split between each pellet  i use all 4 status mod to be  100%   now many ppl dont know this but for example if u hve  about 94%status on gun lot ppl would think that is enought but   u end up with 46% status in total per each pellet so its very important to be 100%

 

18 hours ago, -Fe-McHamm3rShot said:

This is a good question, and maybe brings up a bigger point.

Is it time for DE to look at how status is applied when dealing with shottys?  The way I see it, is if you can achieve 100% status on a shotgun, that status should be be global per pellet.  (I think it was forever ago if I'm not mistaken) before a damage re-work was done.

Shotguns suffer from damage efficiency in general (not all pellets hitting) which is fine, they are Scatter Guns.  But let's say I achieve 100% status fire damage.  In my mind that shell shoots incendiary pellets (each of which are on fire) shouldn't each one of those "be on fire"?

Maybe this has been addressed not sure, but I'd like to see status on shottys get some love.

Thoughts? 

 

18 hours ago, Khanhls124 said:

status work diffrent on shotgun , if you have like say 99% status and 10 pellet then each pellet will have 9,9% status change , but if you have 100% status then somehow (idk why) every pellet will proc status

 

Since there seems to be some misconceptions about how status works on shotguns (and the Cernos Prime), I made a pretty graph in Google Docs:

Each line represents the base pellet count of the weapon. Most weapons in the game have a base pellet count of 1; the Cernos Prime has a base pellet count of 3, etc.

100% status isn't an anomaly, some exception to some rule; the math just works out that way. Regardless of the number of pellets, every line curves in such a way to meet at exactly two points: (0%, 0%) and (100%, 100%).

[-Fe-McHamm3rShot]

Nice graph mang!

So in summary 100% status on shotty's when trying for status builds, each pellet WILL guarantee status?

[Inarticulate]

5 minutes ago, -Fe-McHamm3rShot said:

So in summary 100% status on shotty's when trying for status builds, each pellet WILL guarantee status?

Yep. Regardless of the number of pellets, every line curves hard enough to reach 100% status per pellet when the weapon has 100% status overall.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

12 hours ago, Inarticulate said:

Yep. Regardless of the number of pellets, every line curves hard enough to reach 100% status per pellet when the weapon has 100% status overall.

That's before adding multishot mods, correct?

[Inarticulate]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)R3d P01nt said:

That's before adding multishot mods, correct?

100% status before multishot mods is always 100% status after multishot mods. The reverse is also always true, but you have to make sure there is no rounding error involved. This is the primary reason we usually say "before adding multishot mods" when talking about status chance because 99.95% or more status is displayed as 100.0% in the arsenal due to rounding and is definitely not the same thing mathematically (considering how steep the graphs are approaching 100%).

The thing is that you can use the exact same graph with multishot mods (but rounding error and non-integer pellet count makes it harder). Just read the x-axis as the status chance displayed in the arsenal (instead of the status chance before multishot) and the lines as the pellet count after multishot (instead of the base pellet count). You'll end up with exactly the same number in the end (except that rounding error compounds heavily when the graph is steeper).

[InsomnIaC.]

2 weeks late to this, but actually managed to find a Tigris riven that hit the 53.4% breakpoint:

Mod isn't mine, unfortunately, and guy went offline before I could get max stats. Pretty sure it's not 60% when maxed out tho, cos that would need at least 6.7% and even then because of rounding it may not be enough. So 6.8% would probably be a safe bet.

Still they do exist, but probably possible only on a 2 positive 1 negative riven, and never for all other cases (3 positive 0 negative, 2 positive 0 negative, 3 positive 1 negative)

Also, Ancient Retribution mod pic o.o

Edited January 19, 2017 by InsomnIaC.

[Xzorn]

15 minutes ago, InsomnIaC. said:

2 weeks late to this, but actually managed to find a Tigris riven that hit the 53.4% breakpoint:

Mod isn't mine, unfortunately, and guy went offline before I could get max stats. Pretty sure it's not 60% when maxed out tho, cos that would need at least 6.7% and even then because of rounding it may not be enough. So 6.8% would probably be a safe bet.

Still they do exist, but only on a 2 + 1 - riven.

Also, Ancient Retribution mod pic o.o

 

It would actually be more achievable with a 2 stat - stat riven.

When you have a three stat Riven it's just breaking the first 2 stats down to 66% of their original value. The negative improves the first two stats by +25% but not the third.

In many situations I've seen a 2 stat -1stat Riven be better than a 3 stat -1stat Riven since you're not actually gaining anything in the "pool".

[InsomnIaC.]

1 minute ago, Xzorn said:

 

It would actually be more achievable with a 2 stat - stat riven.

When you have a three stat Riven it's just breaking the first 2 stats down to 66% of their original value. The negative improves the first two stats by +25% but not the third.

In many situations I've seen a 2 stat -1stat Riven be better than a 3 stat -1stat Riven since you're not actually gaining anything in the "pool".

I know that already.

While that was my intended meaning, given that you've seemingly misunderstood it I probably should edit previous post for clarity.

Edited January 19, 2017 by InsomnIaC.