Irn-bruman Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I don't care. Lato Prime? Scana Prime? Give me a break. I didn't bought it while it was aviable because of the insane cost, and would not buy it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNoJump Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Just now, Sziklamester said: They could do it if they see this makes more money. They could either lose a lot of money and then gain potentially more back, or they could just ignore it and keep adding things to the game that don't require a massive payment. I highly doubt there are that many people who actually aren't paying money to DE because they can't get Founders gear so it's really not worth it to do refunds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteMarker Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Just now, Sziklamester said: They could do it if they see this makes more money. Also there is nothing wrong in their part for it if they open sometimes a new founder "event" because that generate them money. They can be generous if it's serve their long term plans. That's not how things work. Shareholders will see DE backpaddles on their decision. Shareholders see DE uses stupid business-strategies. Never will they ever say: "Oh, DE gives away our money. I will stay, pump more money into DE and see, if they will give it away again." No, they will just pack all their stuff and leave DE. DE will end up alone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunslinger20121 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Sziklamester said: They could do it if they see this makes more money. Also there is nothing wrong in their part for it if they open sometimes a new founder "event" because that generate them money. They can be generous if it's serve their long term plans. That goes directly against what the term "founder" means. If the release it now, not only will they lose face and be up against potential lawsuits, it wouldn't exactly be a founder pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, gunslinger20121 said: However WF isn't P2W. Paying absurd amounts of money doesn't give you an actual advantage over anyone else and doesn't win you anything either. You can pay all the money for all the good stuff you want, if you don't know how to mod, or know how to play the different gamemodes, you won't get anywhere, which is the exact opposite of a P2W game design which thrives on people making up the knowledge and skill gap with money. The pay to win part is where you buy slots. That is the only and maybe the riven mods but everything can be considered pay to win which sells power and the frames and items serves as power. The only reason why peoples not see the game pay to win because there is a chance to farm it if that lost or they just close the chances then the game considered as pay to win. Not the advantage the only thing which make a game pay to win but if you buy a complete game and you need to pay for extra content that is also pay to win. I am old styler and I prefer games where once you pay for a goods then it is your, you get the right to use it and no further transaction needed. Free to play games no matter what they do are pay to win in my eyes because you need to pay for the content no matter power or cosmetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightmareT12 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Just now, Neo_182 said: He has a slight armor buff and has golden trim. You could just as well build a really powerful excalibur. Because it's a founder exclusive. Double Edged Sword... ENGAGE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaero Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Neo_182 said: He has a slight armor buff and has golden trim. You could just as well build a really powerful excalibur. Indeed, but it still won't be the best possible version of Excal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Just now, Ksaero said: Indeed, but it still won't be the best possible version of Excal. This is true because that small extra is count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluepheonix13 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Hmm are mods taking today off or why is this thread not locked yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 6 minutes ago, gunslinger20121 said: That goes directly against what the term "founder" means. If the release it now, not only will they lose face and be up against potential lawsuits, it wouldn't exactly be a founder pack. Depend on what pact made with the founders. If there are written documents it is an agreement then they can face with lawsuits yes otherwise not but they could lose prestige. They can handle what they want more prestige, money or new founders which makes more money but certainly lose a tons of old founders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aligatorno Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Sziklamester said: Free to play games no matter what they do are pay to win in my eyes because you need to pay for the content no matter power or cosmetic. Then you clearly don't understand what Pay 2 WIN means. You don't win anything by buying something purely cosmetical. Edited January 11, 2017 by aligatorno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunslinger20121 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Just now, Sziklamester said: The pay to win part is where you buy slots. That is the only and maybe the riven mods but everything can be considered pay to win which sells power and the frames and items serves as power. The only reason why peoples not see the game pay to win because there is a chance to farm it if that lost or they just close the chances then the game considered as pay to win. Not the advantage the only thing which make a game pay to win but if you buy a complete game and you need to pay for extra content that is also pay to win. I am old styler and I prefer games where once you pay for a goods then it is your, you get the right to use it and no further transaction needed. Free to play games no matter what they do are pay to win in my eyes because you need to pay for the content no matter power or cosmetic. Ok look at the term you are using. Does it include win? Yes. You aren't winning by paying real money. You yourself never have to spend money to keep up with the people that do. A pay to win business style relies on the fact that some people will pay money to get ahead and that will cause others to do the same to try to keep up. You can keep up just fine in WF without spending a dime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 9 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said: That's not how things work. Shareholders will see DE backpaddles on their decision. Shareholders see DE uses stupid business-strategies. Never will they ever say: "Oh, DE gives away our money. I will stay, pump more money into DE and see, if they will give it away again." No, they will just pack all their stuff and leave DE. DE will end up alone... That was actually true. This is the most possible way how things could goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunslinger20121 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Sziklamester said: Depend on what pact made with the founders. If there are written documents it is an agreement then they can face with lawsuits yes otherwise not but they could lose prestige. They can handle what they want more prestige, money or new founders which makes more money but certainly lose a tons of old founders. More prestige means more money anyways. If people dont trust the company they are much more likely to not spend money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, gunslinger20121 said: Ok look at the term you are using. Does it include win? Yes. You aren't winning by paying real money. You yourself never have to spend money to keep up with the people that do. A pay to win business style relies on the fact that some people will pay money to get ahead and that will cause others to do the same to try to keep up. You can keep up just fine in WF without spending a dime. Not really because if they never ever release the trade option and with platinum those whom not paying money for the game can face it with hard time. You need the sell your stuffs and never own ever really anything because you need to change them. This called limitation and this limitation is a bad design choice also a good source of money because force peoples to spend money on it otherwise they cannot get slots. So please don't count the trading as an option because it is my money partly because I bought platinum sometimes. (I know you not mention the trading but obviously you thought on that.) Edited January 11, 2017 by Sziklamester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaero Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 59 minutes ago, aligatorno said: I never understood this mania and extreme need for Excal P, and even Umbra Excal, that comes from people that did not buy the Founders Pack. It's a reskin, you are not gaining anything new besides the skin and the 6k mastery. It's not like Excal P plays differently than normal Excal. Well I want Umbra mostly because of his outstandingly awesome appearance. On top of that, he has a really good stats buff. Isn't it enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Just now, gunslinger20121 said: More prestige means more money anyways. If people dont trust the company they are much more likely to not spend money. That's why they won't anytime soon release a founder packs only if the all founder left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEjAvU5566 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 You can keep trying to cry for those toys, and DE will keep locking these threads. FOUNDER items are reward for those who are willing to pay lots of money to an un-polished game. It's a symbol, not the same thing as tactical alert rewards or prime thing. the only moment I think of that those items will resell again, is that either game is going to shut down, or the conscience of DE is going to shut down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaero Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 (edited) Just now, Neo_182 said: "Best" is subjective. I don't get why people get all riled up over founder stuff. This is like any other game, if they had founder or backer exclusives they aren't available anymore. They are gone. Not coming back (in most cases anyway) the game won't stop working or be less fun because of it. It's an egotistical thing "But..but i must complete my collection." *rolls eyes* I don't care about founder's stuff. I want Umbra. If we're not even taking appearance into consideration, there are 25 extra armour and 50 extra energy that make Umbra the best Excal version. Edited January 11, 2017 by Ksaero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Actually I don't want umbras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightmareT12 Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 3 minutes ago, Neo_182 said: "Best" is subjective. I don't get why people get all riled up over founder stuff. This is like any other game, if they had founder or backer exclusives they aren't available anymore. They are gone. Not coming back (in most cases anyway) the game won't stop working or be less fun because of it.It's an egotistical thing "But..but i must complete my collection." *rolls eyes* I don't think he's being much more egocentric than me or you, so as to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schregger Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I honestly could care less about Excalibur prime, in comparison to normal, it only has a few Gold bits and is rather plain looking. As for the matter of it being exclusive, while I can see both sides, I also see something else; this is DE's game, and while they are willing to change things for the players, there are limits as to what they will change and how so. So if DE decides that Excalibur Prime is for founders only, well... guess what... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YUNoJump Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 13 minutes ago, Sziklamester said: Not really because if they never ever release the trade option and with platinum those whom not paying money for the game can face it with hard time. You need the sell your stuffs and never own ever really anything because you need to change them. This called limitation and this limitation is a bad design choice also a good source of money because force peoples to spend money on it otherwise they cannot get slots. So please don't count the trading as an option because it is my money partly because I bought platinum sometimes. (I know you not mention the trading but obviously you thought on that.) Your argument is relying on the idea that you are entitled to playing Warframe without paying at all, and you're confusing "pay2win" with just paying. Warframe is free so it's gotta have some form of income for DE from customers, that comes in the form of Plat. If the game didn't have Plat then it would fail very quickly what with DE having literally zero income. A good F2P game doesn't stop you from experiencing what it has to offer without paying, a bad one forces you to pay to experience the game to its fullest potential, and a REALLY bad one basically locks parts of the core experience behind paywalls. The only solid paywall that Warframe has, that can't be crossed with time or effort, is Slots, and even then they are cheap enough that you could easily make enough Plat, by trading junk Primes on the Market or whatever, to buy a new Slot in the time it takes to build a weapon or Warframe. And it might be difficult to buy a weapon/cosmetic/warframe/etc with only traded plat, but that is why the rest of the game exists. After all, if all you do is pay your way to the end of the game, then where's the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miser_able Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I have one question I've always had about this. How many founders even still play? And how many of them use excal p for anything other then showing off/fashion frame? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 13 minutes ago, YUNoJump said: Your argument is relying on the idea that you are entitled to playing Warframe without paying at all, and you're confusing "pay2win" with just paying. Warframe is free so it's gotta have some form of income for DE from customers, that comes in the form of Plat. If the game didn't have Plat then it would fail very quickly what with DE having literally zero income. A good F2P game doesn't stop you from experiencing what it has to offer without paying, a bad one forces you to pay to experience the game to its fullest potential, and a REALLY bad one basically locks parts of the core experience behind paywalls. The only solid paywall that Warframe has, that can't be crossed with time or effort, is Slots, and even then they are cheap enough that you could easily make enough Plat, by trading junk Primes on the Market or whatever, to buy a new Slot in the time it takes to build a weapon or Warframe. And it might be difficult to buy a weapon/cosmetic/warframe/etc with only traded plat, but that is why the rest of the game exists. After all, if all you do is pay your way to the end of the game, then where's the fun. That is why I said dont count the Trade. If noone Trade for plat those peoples whom not pay at all will not get slots. This is the only force but this is necessary for money making. I am agreeing with you in some of the part in this reply with you but I Think you quite misunderstand my last part when I said the slots the only pay to win elements in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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