----_Hayden_Tenno_---- Posted January 19, 2017 Share Posted January 19, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said: Good damage...as in the lowest damage out of all of the launchers....but apparently to the nerfers this is "good damage" for a launcher type weapon. I would hate to see what they label any of the other launcher weapon damage values... it also has the highest fire rate so pls.... stop kidding yourself. 1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said: Viable crit stats: So a 10% crit chance with a 2.0x multiplier is "viable crit"? When pretty much no one builds crit for a weapon with less than 20% chance? With that logic the Zarr is better at crits (15% chance with 2.5x multiplier) and coupled with the Zarrs bomblets the effective crit is higher, The Penta/Secura Penta are equal to it. So saying "Oh it has a viable crit chance which makes it better than any of the other launchers" simply isn't true. its still twice as much as some other explosives u mentioned. 1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said: Good status? Again it has a 10% status chance. The kulstar has a 10% chance (which is actually higher due to its cluster bombs), the Zarr has a 20% status chance, the Penta/Secura Penta are the same in status. The ogris ties with it as well. And the Angstrum beats it because it also has 10% but due to how its shooting works equals out to a higher status chance effectively. So again, it doesn't really have "good status" compared to the other launchers. fire rate again. 1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said: Syndicate AoE is hardly unique to this weapon. Plus as the AoE is magnetic damage doesn't really do much... do u even corpus bro`? 1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said: Serious question here: Do you even know how the simulor functions? Especially its alt-fire? Its alt-fire deals a flat 50 base damage. That's it. The damage from exploding an orb doesn't stack as the orbs merge. i never said leave the detonation damage as it is.... seriously read before u post your nonsense: 2 hours ago, ..-Hayden-Tenno-.. said: now u have to stack multiple vortexes to increase the damage wich u can release by using its alternative fire. the more u stack, the more damage u will deal.... 1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said: Its like you don't even know anything about the weapon or the basic fact that all of its damage comes from merging. Its other sources of damage don't even matter due to be a flat 50 that never increases. And please don't say "But it as DoT on enemies that sit directly in its middle..." considering that the weapon has no way to hold or pull living enemies into its middle to deal that DoT damage to them. I honestly want you to try to use the synoid simulor to have its vortex damage enemies in contact with it...and then see how pretty much any other gun in the game could out-damage it and much more easily... hahaha please... dont make me post your profile... u barely used this gun and now u trying to defend it? oh please... this is just beyond pathetic. 1 hour ago, Tsukinoki said: EDIT: Hek lets assume that the damage from the manual detonation stacks. Which means in 2 seconds after firing 4 times I can detonate a vortex for 200 damage! Meanwhile I can fire the opticor once and have it charging again and having dealt 1000 damage over roughly the same area of damage. Meanwhile I can fire the penta/secura penta 4 times, each individaul grenade dealing more than 200 damage and each cover the same area of damage as your idea for the simulor. Meanwhile I can take a pistol and deal more damage to the group of enemies in those 2 seconds than your simulor just did, even without punchthrough mods. So in what way would the simulor be "viable" with your idea in place? i never said leave the damage as it is... it was just a suggestion to change the whole mechanic of the weapon. stop suggesting otherwise. my main weapon is the opticor and believe me, u talking bullS#&$ here.... u got no clue about this gun at all... u barely have 5k kills with it.... and again stop comparing it to penta wich has selfdamage, it is a high risk weapon, wich will get u killed if u dont be careful... oh wait theres that augment now... well its still crap compared to simulor since it doesnt insta stagger everything within its range, it has 3x the mag size and requires no aim at all.... and pistols? hahaha u gotta be kidding me man.... i challenge u to get even close to my kill count with your trash pistol while im using a simulor. its funny how its always those mastery rank 23 players who think they know it all better.... but in fact they dont. you're the perfect example. ------------------------------------------------------------------ the whole problem is how mirage and simulor synergises.... the clones deal the same damage as mirage herself when they merge the vortexes, its a bug and the main issue why this combo is so overpowered. im done with this thread anyway... its not like DE cares about overall usability of weapons and frames. Edited January 19, 2017 by ..-Hayden-Tenno-.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonDodo Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 14 hours ago, ArchPhaeton said: Each tenno should be able to play the way they want. That includes miramulors and WoF embers. Balance is needed as more content is added, but this nerf outrage cycle is so predictable it's almost laughable. You failed at ethic :( Your freedom ends when it limits other people freedom. Thus a single player that asks to be free to ruin most other player's experience is only selfish. You fear an overnerf that will make mirage unfun? well for sure you didn't thought about that when choosing mirage+ simulor and making the session unfun for other 3 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DERPY_SMOOG Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 i have an idea for a simulor rework that would allow it to still be a top teir weapon without being quite so trollish. it came to me randomly and i figured i would post it before i forget. 1 "filled" orb at a time. by this i mean a fully combined orb that can grab items and destroy corpse. a mirage with hall of mirrors active will be constantly recombining and moving the orb to new places instead of littering the whole battlefield in eye cancer and bored teammates. this also preserves its ability to wreck in an area b/c the penta, tonkor, torid, and a few others do the same and its not really a problem. this change would bring it more in balance with the other grenade launchers in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchPhaeton Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 8 hours ago, VonDodo said: -snip- Thus a single player that asks to be free to ruin most other player's experience is only selfish. -snip- Point is, "fun" is completely subjective. For me they don't ruin anything unless they make the mission fail or something. Besides, it's not like 100% of missions have a miramulor around. While I do agree that the simulor is overkill for most contexts (even without mirage) and balance is welcome, these nerf rages do nothing but trample an even larger player count. Following your idea, you're also using your freedom to demand a major cripple on many people's "fun". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonDodo Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 On 20/01/2017 at 5:42 PM, ArchPhaeton said: Point is, "fun" is completely subjective. For me they don't ruin anything unless they make the mission fail or something. Besides, it's not like 100% of missions have a miramulor around. While I do agree that the simulor is overkill for most contexts (even without mirage) and balance is welcome, these nerf rages do nothing but trample an even larger player count. Following your idea, you're also using your freedom to demand a major cripple on many people's "fun". Actually the problem is that mirage + simulor are OP. You don't believe DE to make a balancing without overnerf, thus you get angry against people that instead says what everyone knows... i.e. mirage+simulor are the worst balancing issue in the game (followed by telos boltace+maiming strike). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchPhaeton Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 12 hours ago, VonDodo said: Actually the problem is that mirage + simulor are -snip- If 99% of the people used that (like how 99% of the people used to be at Draco), then yes that would definitely be a problem. But if I see one or two of those a day (sometimes none at all) then nope. The only issue here seems to be people mad because someone "steals" their kills. And I'm not mad at anyone, just pointing out what I have observed developing the past few years. I guess asking a gaming community to grow up and worry about actual game issues is too much. We always have that voracious need to cry NERF everytime something or someone out-damages our best setup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAZZWARFRAME Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, ArchPhaeton said: -snip- The only issue here seems to be people mad because someone "steals" their kills. -snip- yes this is an honest way of putting it. I would take a step back and generalize the issue being that (like the old ash blade storm), mirage-simulor combo makes the game not fun for the teammates. Regardless of reason, if enough people feel that this is a problem, then this is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonDodo Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 10 hours ago, ArchPhaeton said: If 99% of the people used that (like how 99% of the people used to be at Draco), then yes that would definitely be a problem. But if I see one or two of those a day (sometimes none at all) then nope. The only issue here seems to be people mad because someone "steals" their kills. And I'm not mad at anyone, just pointing out what I have observed developing the past few years. I guess asking a gaming community to grow up and worry about actual game issues is too much. We always have that voracious need to cry NERF everytime something or someone out-damages our best setup... 99,9 % of mirage users use simulor. When you get a simulor mirage in play you can't actually do anything rather walking toward extraction EVEN in sorties. A single combination that prevents 4 players to play for you is worse than draco? Draco is not a problem because EVERY player can choose to play it or not. A single mirage takes out the choice from other 3 players... asking them to leave is not a solution. If anything mirage player should ask if he should leave or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X9tails327X Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just now, VonDodo said: 99,9 % of mirage users use simulor. When you get a simulor mirage in play you can't actually do anything rather walking toward extraction EVEN in sorties. A single combination that prevents 4 players to play for you is worse than draco? Draco is not a problem because EVERY player can choose to play it or not. A single mirage takes out the choice from other 3 players... asking them to leave is not a solution. If anything mirage player should ask if he should leave or not. If someone ever asks me what kills a game I am gonna come back to this thread and show them you're post. I am gonna show them what kills the fun in games. If you don't wanna play with a Mirage with Synoid Simulor here's what you do: 1. Private the Match so only you can play. 2. Go to recruiting chat and recruit people who are not Mirage/Synoid Simulor When you click public you knew what you were getting into. Don't complain that you are getting carried for free. If you want to enjoy the game do it on your own terms otherwise stop complaining. When you complain about something like this I can only wonder how much you enjoy grinding everyday in Warframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)shadowraith_666 Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 using Mirage and Simulor is a good frame/weapon synergy when using the mechanics of the frame and weapon as intended, why punish people that have grinded Suda to get the weapon just because a few don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubbi Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Honestly the simulor weapon does bother me, with Mirage even more. But I still dont think it should be nerfed. That it bothers me is my problem and I'm not going to be selfish and let my preferences dictate others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DopingMD Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Sooner or later simulor will follow the fate of his younger brother gammacor! Also wish that this sy-mi guys learn how to use the mid mouse button already! :) especially on Radiation Sorties! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)KnowLedge Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Haters gon' hate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsukinoki Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, DopingMD said: Also wish that this sy-mi guys learn how to use the mid mouse button already! :) especially on Radiation Sorties! Only problem with this: Detonating the orbs is kinda pointless with how the Synoid Simulor is statted. With base stats the merge damage is 175 over 11 meters. The manual detonation damage is 50 over 5-7 meters. The simple fact is that there is absolutely nothing which encourages detonating the orbs over just merging again and again. If you detonate orbs the only thing that you are doing is sacrificing damage for absolutely no benefit. If detonating the orbs actually did something then maybe I could see more Synoid Simulor users doing it, but the simple fact is that detonating the orbs is actively harmful to damage output. 3 hours ago, VonDodo said: 99,9 % of mirage users use simulor. When you get a simulor mirage in play you can't actually do anything rather walking toward extraction EVEN in sorties. A single combination that prevents 4 players to play for you is worse than draco? Draco is not a problem because EVERY player can choose to play it or not. A single mirage takes out the choice from other 3 players... asking them to leave is not a solution. If anything mirage player should ask if he should leave or not. Funny how 99.9% of mirage users use simulor when I run into 5-10 mirage users a day who don't use simulor and 2 or 3 that do. Further, if you want to do something how about using parkour and getting ahead of the mirage and killing things before the mirage gets there? You're acting like the simulor has infinite range when it doesn't. Its range is rather short all things concerned. So unless you just slowly walk behind the mirage without even attempting to do anything to get ahead of it you should be able to kill plenty of stuff before the mirage can manage it. So if you're not getting any kills that's 100% on you. Especially since if the mirage is parkouring it can't stack too many orbs to hit enemies... Edited January 24, 2017 by Tsukinoki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DopingMD Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 8 minutes ago, Tsukinoki said: The simple fact is that there is absolutely nothing which encourages detonating the orbs over just merging again and again. If you detonate orbs the only thing that you are doing is sacrificing damage for absolutely no benefit. you know getting killed by sy-mi at radiation extermination sortie just cuz he runs ahead and leaves his balls behind xD killing all squad-it's not fun! and getting retarted responses (on our frustration) like " deal with it" its not funny at all!- i also can go nuts and kill all squad on sorties,but as far as im concerned we are living in the 21 century - and i can't allow myself to behave like that in a civil game :) so there is a reason they should learn that,especialy on rad sorties!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchPhaeton Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 58 minutes ago, DopingMD said: you know getting killed by sy-mi at radiation extermination sortie just cuz he runs ahead and leaves his balls behind xD killing all squad-it's not fun! and getting retarted responses (on our frustration) like " deal with it" its not funny at all!- -snip- 1. Radiation sorties always have had this issue, people mindlessly spamming their stuff and killing the whole squad. Happens regardless of miramulors. 2. Welcome to online gaming! ;) Now that's the kinda stuff that makes me play wither alone or with people I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurstl Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 As one guy pointed out, Miragulor is especially good at extermination missions. As I dont have really much left to do, I mostly run fissures - which by definition work like exterminations, as you need to kill stuff to get your rectants. I'd rather run those missions in a fun way like melee only or just use my freshly build gas Magnus, that thanks to a riven is suddenly fun 😀 But in order to have anything to do besides walking, I need to use cheesy tactics myself like a fast frame with an Ignis - would rather not, but 3 out of 4 fissure missions actually do have a Mirage... at least in fissures its definitely not one or two Mirages a day, but more something along the lines of waayyy too many. So thumbs up for orbs of Mirage and clones not merging, problem solved and weapon still as viable as ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingAlkaiser Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I love how the lazy cheese players find ridiculous excuses to defend this blatant overpowered weapon. At the end of the day when you have a weapon which is essentially a nuclear weapon of mass destruction (some of biggest if not biggest AoE in game weapon) combined with an additional syndicate nuke which also fills up energy to add to damage aka dual wielding nuke in a way, which on top of that is ammo efficient and has a large ammo capacity ( 15 rounds/mag as opposed to tonkor which has only 2 shots per reload to balance it a bit); moreover but certainly not the last of the huge list of OP stuff this weapon requires almost no aim whatsoever. Being able to nuke rooms without aiming at anything ( you can shoot floor/the sky/almost 10m away from enemy ) and having no self damage or anything in general to give weapon some balance is a HUGE problem for balancing. It just has too many good things going for it and nothing bad about it to bring it in line to other weapons. Still amazed at the excuses brought to this. As overpowered as other things are such as tonkor at least they require some kind of aiming involved and low ammo clip/etc to balance it. This weapons needs a complete rework or nerf, whats the point in using any other weapon when this one single weapon can trivialize 75% of game content without you even aiming/planning/strategize you just click anywhere any direction no matter what and just blow entire screen away. Add a mirage which doubles something that is incredibly overpowered and its too much. Im done with thread as well people will just continue to defend this lazymode engaged weapon and try to hide the fact that it is beyond broken and needs attention from devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholyrequiem Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) Yesterday I was running sortie defense and I got 2 mirage's with synoid simulor in my mission. Rather than waste time trying to kill things I decided to just sit there spamming abilities because all agency I remotely ever had in that mission was now utterly pointless. I was more of a spectator than a combatant because everything would die before I could at most string together 2 or 3 kills. The problem with the combo mirage+synoid simulor is the same problem with telos boltace. It removes agency of other players and turns the game into a one button spam fest where you continually perform a single action and everything around you dies, no different than simply pressing 4 on Ash before his rework. Edited January 25, 2017 by Unholyrequiem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chipputer Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Unholyrequiem said: Yesterday I was running sortie defense and I got 2 mirage's with synoid simulor in my mission. Rather than waste time trying to kill things I decided to just sit there spamming abilities because all agency I remotely ever had in that mission was now utterly pointless. I was more of a spectator than a combatant because everything would die before I could at most string together 2 or 3 kills. The problem with the combo mirage+synoid simulor is the same problem with telos boltace. It removes agency of other players and turns the game into a one button spam fest where you continually perform a single action and everything around you dies, no different than simply pressing 4 on Ash before his rework. Had the same issue with an exterminate sortie, today. We got about 50 kills in and then a Miragulor joined and happily began running through the mission spamming their fire button, leaving us with almost nothing to kill, save for the enemies that they didn't quite take out, themselves, and moved on instead of killing them right and good (which I could literally count the amount of those on one hand). Oh, but, something something fun is subjective something something you'll be ruining their fun something something so let's just never change it at all. As I said earlier in this thread, there is currently no option on the table that won't negatively impact one or both groups of players (mirage players and simulor users), so the better option is to just leave it alone for now, but I shouldn't have to completely shut myself out from the multiplayer aspects of the game in order to avoid players who join mid-game and remove any and all semblance of gameplay from what I'm doing. I'm already invested in the mission at that point. Leaving is not an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soketsu Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 On 24/01/2017 at 0:17 AM, ArchPhaeton said: If 99% of the people used that (like how 99% of the people used to be at Draco), then yes that would definitely be a problem. But if I see one or two of those a day (sometimes none at all) then nope. The only issue here seems to be people mad because someone "steals" their kills. And I'm not mad at anyone, just pointing out what I have observed developing the past few years. I guess asking a gaming community to grow up and worry about actual game issues is too much. We always have that voracious need to cry NERF everytime something or someone out-damages our best setup... THIS MAN DESERVE A MEDAL ! 19 hours ago, VonDodo said: 99,9 % of mirage users use simulor. When you get a simulor mirage in play you can't actually do anything rather walking toward extraction EVEN in sorties. A single combination that prevents 4 players to play for you is worse than draco? Draco is not a problem because EVERY player can choose to play it or not. A single mirage takes out the choice from other 3 players... asking them to leave is not a solution. If anything mirage player should ask if he should leave or not. Yes draco wasn't a problem thanks to pointing ou that now... unfortunalty those who cry about that win, they got what they "want' now there are another node where to xp, I still don't know what was the point of wasting time on nerfing that... I still don't know what nerfing mirage simulor will bring but please go on, I hope no one will yell about the next OP loadout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VonDodo Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 22 hours ago, X9tails327X said: If someone ever asks me what kills a game I am gonna come back to this thread and show them you're post. I am gonna show them what kills the fun in games. If you don't wanna play with a Mirage with Synoid Simulor here's what you do: 1. Private the Match so only you can play. 2. Go to recruiting chat and recruit people who are not Mirage/Synoid Simulor When you click public you knew what you were getting into. Don't complain that you are getting carried for free. If you want to enjoy the game do it on your own terms otherwise stop complaining. When you complain about something like this I can only wonder how much you enjoy grinding everyday in Warframe. Let me be clear YOU are the one wanting to use a combo that doesn t let other players play, YOU are the one that needs to play private match. I already said that your rights ends when you step on other people rights.... its basic ethic so basic it can be applied to everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak_Gohae Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 20 minutes ago, VonDodo said: Let me be clear YOU are the one wanting to use a combo that doesn t let other players play, YOU are the one that needs to play private match. I already said that your rights ends when you step on other people rights.... its basic ethic so basic it can be applied to everything. Nah, man, it's on you if you pug. Pug is party RNG. Hek, i played a mission the other day where the other version of this, Ember WOF, has the whole party just walking to extract. The one thing that was actually annoying from this is not being able to get good focus. And these two examples are not the only ones. I think the issue has more to do with people rolling in with super min/maxed gear when the other member dont so they can clear anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devinee Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 (edited) On 11.1.2017 at 3:31 PM, Insizer said: I think that I'm not alone in saying this, but please DE, for the love of god and all that is holy, please do something about Mirage + Synoid Simulor. It is damn near cancer to the game. There are many things that can be done: nerf Synoid Simulor, nerf Mirage, make it so that the simulor orbs from a clone cannot combine with those of the other clones and the actual user, make it so that each shot requires a short charge up. I don't particularly care, I just want this issue fixed. It has been the greater part of a year, and nothing has been done at all despite this being one of the most requested and complained about things on the forums. I just want this fixed and have the fix actually work without making the simulor series useless. mimimi spamulor mirage mimimi deals to much damage mimimi can't kill anything mimimi. why not jump on the nerf train and nerf nidus because he never dies if played by a semi decent player, or chroma he can generate credits and holy S#&$ vex armor makes every weapon deal insane dmg not to mention nekros dat lootz he can generate need a nerf too. i wish there would be more spamulor mirage's making people like OP extra salty but it looks like only a small player base use's this combo because i see rarely any in pugs. and just saying i <3 mirage's with this weapon in my group because it was never easier to chill and leech some affinity Edited January 25, 2017 by Devinee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soketsu Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 5 minutes ago, Devinee said: mimimi spamulor mirage mimimi deals to much damage mimimi can't kill anything mimimi. why not jump on the nerf train and nerf nidus because he never dies if played by a semi decent player, or chroma he can generate credits and holy S#&$ vex armor makes every weapon deal insane dmg not to mention nekros dat lootz he can generate need a nerf too. i wish there would be more spamulor mirage's making people like OP extra salty but it looks like only a small player base use's this combo because i see rarely any in pugs Speaking of nidus, since (almost) everyone killing all the foe (low mid level) annoying a nidus , should we nerf everything in order to make Nidus life easier when it's M.stack farm time ? Since it's what this train yell about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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