Sortie players not being high enough MR

[(PSN)ChickenBeesGood]

gg

Edited July 19, 2021 by (PSN)ChickenBeesGood

[Methanoid]

On 20/01/2017 at 11:44 AM, -BM-Leonhart said:

There are already plenty of restrictions in place right now, since only if you complete TWW you can play Sorties. And that requires the 2 main quests and the last planet unlocked. It's already way better than when MR4s were roaming the place like they could actually do more than 1% of the job.

These days, it's a given the more experienced the player, the higher MR he will have. There are lots of requirements in place for weapons and Rivens, not to mention the multitude of advantages you have for those. Any player that is at least willing to improve himself while in this game will aim for at least MR16. Those times when you could be MR8 and have everything there is and no need for more MR are OVER.

high MR will never equate to experience with anything other than their "experience" of levelling more frames/wpns, if you meant "skill" instead of experience then that is something that will never be evaluated by Mastery Rank alone, on my main account here i basically stopped levelling new stuff after i hit MR16, theres no point to it, never has been, i spend more time having fun on my MR0 alt account which has got a plethora of 4-5 forma gear which could easily do sorties just as well as my MR16 character.

People need to remember that high MR does not in some way improve your warframe, your weapons also perform no better, sorties at present may have that MR requirement thrown in via quests but once its unlocked you could easily have a MR20 player stroll into the sortie with an unpotatoed lvl30 Braton MK1, Lato and Skana defeating the point of the supposed mastery requirement.

[MagPrime]

With the current tools available, the only way around having low MR players in your Sortie is to build your own Sortie team.  I've done this a few times and haven't had an issue to date.  It was easy to find people that wanted a consistent team for all 3 missions and we had a fairly low failure rate.

Play public, you get what you get. 

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 minute ago, Methanoid said:

high MR will never equate to experience with anything other than their "experience" of levelling more frames/wpns, if you meant "skill" instead of experience then that is something that will never be evaluated by Mastery Rank alone, on my main account here i basically stopped levelling new stuff after i hit MR16, theres no point to it, never has been, i spend more time having fun on my MR0 alt account which has got a plethora of 4-5 forma gear which could easily do sorties just as well as my MR16 character.

People need to remember that high MR does not in some way improve your warframe, your weapons also perform no better, sorties at present may have that MR requirement thrown in via quests but once its unlocked you could easily have a MR20 player stroll into the sortie with an unpotatoed lvl30 Braton MK1, Lato and Skana defeating the point of the supposed mastery requirement.

And how can you be so sure of the fact that the half of the gear in this game you never tried is crap? I don't feel like wanting to listen to the words of someone that only looks up the "most OP meta weapons" and never even tries for himself the rest of others to see the truth.

And I can guarantee, the Meta can be really stupid sometimes, lots of people outrightly ignore really powerful weapons and gear. This is especially true now that we have Rivens. Those already strong non-meta weapons have gotten stupidly OP due to their strong dispositions. There is no way normal meta weapons will catch up to that.

[Methanoid]

1 minute ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

And how can you be so sure of the fact that the half of the gear in this game you never tried is crap? I don't feel like wanting to listen to the words of someone that only looks up the "most OP meta weapons" and never even tries for himself the rest of others to see the truth.

And I can guarantee, the Meta can be really stupid sometimes, lots of people outrightly ignore really powerful weapons and gear. This is especially true now that we have Rivens. Those already strong non-meta weapons have gotten stupidly OP due to their strong dispositions. There is no way normal meta weapons will catch up to that.

i already have a ton of stuff that is good enough, there is stuff better but its marginal, if you already have a fistload of stuff thats good, why do you need more?  what exactly do you use it on?

Edited January 21, 2017 by Methanoid

[KIREEK]

It's not the MR that will determine if the player will perform good or not, MR is the ammount of content you grinded, meaning it will have 0 impact on filtering competent players.

By my vast experience with warframe, a player that relies on MR is a player that expect others to help him, because he alone can't do it, since this tought never fully works, the user raises the MR in hopes things will improve.
Not only the players that request, but the ones that enter games where MR is set by the host, the entire team ends up being a huge collection of poor players that have in some way or another a deficiency in gameplay. Weapons and warframes can only go so far to hide the actual value of the player, when things matter the nature is revealed and the results aren't suprising.

Edited January 21, 2017 by KIREEK

[-N7-Leonhart]

3 minutes ago, Methanoid said:

i already have a ton of stuff that is good enough, there is stuff better but its marginal, if you already have a fistload of stuff thats good, why do you need more?  what exactly do you use it on?

Of course, because that other stuff is even better. And I absolutely loathe to believe others when they say something is crap and something is OP. Like with the Boltor P, that thing was laughable in comparison with some other weapons in it's generation. There is no upper limit to what a player's strength could be, especially now that we have strong Rivens for the already powerful weapons.

[Methanoid]

3 minutes ago, KIREEK said:

It's not the MR that will determine if the player will perform good or not, MR is the ammount of content you grinded, meaning it will have 0 impact on filtering competent players.

Exactly this ^ insisting on MR to judge "skill" in warframe is no different to insisting on high Gear Score that world of failcraft drifted into before it all turned into scooby doo poo, it just doesnt work.

[Methanoid]

2 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Of course, because that other stuff is even better. And I absolutely loathe to believe others when they say something is crap and something is OP. Like with the Boltor P, that thing was laughable in comparison with some other weapons in it's generation. There is no upper limit to what a player's strength could be, especially now that we have strong Rivens for the already powerful weapons.

i have 2 useful rivens but tbh the rest ive had does not make me suddenly want to use the rubbish weapons, ive noticed that what is already strong will remain strong or stronger, adding powerful rivens on crap weapons just means you have a slightly less rubbish, rubbish weapon, which still makes it rubbish when compared to the already strong weapons that dont even have a riven on them yet.

In my case the stuff i max'd out 1 and a half years ago is still good enough now for what i need, sorties just dont offer anything of worth to make me want to continue doing them, they were a novelty that has worn off quickly now i know i dont really need rivens to improve mastery fodder weapons and they constantly reward me with useless stuff i dont need.

You example of the boltor prime btw is apt, i still use that now and it stil performs amazingly well, ive seen s.simulor, tigris prime etc players knocking around and i see them tearing stuff up but i just dont "need" those weapons so havent bothered getting them, i also dont "need" the mastery for anything.

Either way, we are drifting off topic a bit here, MR, yeah its not an indicator of skill, never will be so trying to segregate a portion of the playerbase just based on a meaningless number is just plain wrong any way you look at it.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, Methanoid said:

i have 2 useful rivens but tbh the rest ive had does not make me suddenly want to use the rubbish weapons, ive noticed that what is already strong will remain strong or stronger, adding powerful rivens on crap weapons just means you have a slightly less rubbish, rubbish weapon, which still makes it rubbish when compared to the already strong weapons that dont even have a riven on them yet.

And do you think that all weapons with Strong Dispositions are crap from the start? I mean, didn't you considered the possibility that a lot of this disposition thing was based on popularity and not actual performance?

For example, which of those 2 do you think it's more powerful?

1. Boltor P with a Riven that has +100% and +50% multishot;

2. Kohm with the same name Riven than has 300% damage and 200% multishot.

I will make this easier for you, since I tested both with maxed builds. Boltor p remains the same impotent crap as it ever was, taking whole magazines to kill a single very high level enemy, while with Kohm I could kill heavy armored enemies of the levels 100-145 in seconds or fractions of seconds.

You don't hear much about such weapons in your meta selection up to MR16, do you?

[John89brensen]

On 15/1/2017 at 8:23 PM, Aratir said:

Yeah leave out the MR 22 and under noobs.

As an MR22 noob i feel left out. We should draw the line along legal drinking ages, MR 18-21.

[Methanoid]

11 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

And do you think that all weapons with Strong Dispositions are crap from the start? I mean, didn't you considered the possibility that a lot of this disposition thing was based on popularity and not actual performance?

For example, which of those 2 do you think it's more powerful?

1. Boltor P with a Riven that has +100% and +50% multishot;

2. Kohm with the same name Riven than has 300% damage and 200% multishot.

I will make this easier for you, since I tested both with maxed builds. Boltor p remains the same impotent crap as it ever was, taking whole magazines to kill a single very high level enemy, while with Kohm I could kill heavy armored enemies of the levels 100-145 in seconds or fractions of seconds.

You don't hear much about such weapons in your meta selection up to MR16, do you?

boltor prime still works perfectly fine, also the whole point here is that you dont "need" to go anywhere near lvl 145 enemys, we never have done beyond bragging rights, very high wave def/etc still award junk so going that high is still not worth it.  Sorties can still be easily bypassed difficulty wise by just mostly abusing warframe abilitys moreso than actually using weapons, esp for the likes of say "bow only" sorties where you can bypass this entirely by bringing say excal and just use his conjured melee weapon of doom to faceroll everything, other mission types you can just CC everything and ignore them with rarely a shot fired.

META weapons arent "needed" for anything their just convenient faceroll, other still powerful but not so meta weapons can still do the same job well into sortie level of difficulty.

As for meta up to my mastery level, well er, i dont even consider or care about it, i just use what i know works for me, meta doesnt matter or id already be rocking the weapons i see performing better, theres nothing i do at present that warrants the upgrade, sorties certainly arent an incentive.

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 minute ago, Methanoid said:

boltor prime still works perfectly fine, also the whole point here is that you dont "need" to go anywhere near lvl 145 enemys, we never have done beyond bragging rights, very high wave def/etc still award junk so going that high is still not worth it.  Sorties can still be easily bypassed difficulty wise by just mostly abusing warframe abilitys moreso than actually using weapons, esp for the likes of say "bow only" sorties where you can bypass this entirely by bringing say excal and just use his conjured melee weapon of doom to faceroll everything, other mission types you can just CC everything and ignore them with rarely a shot fired.

META weapons arent "needed" for anything their just convenient faceroll, other still powerful but not so meta weapons can still do the same job well into sortie level of difficulty.

As for meta up to my mastery level, well er, i dont even consider or care about it, i just use what i know works for me, meta doesnt matter or id already be rocking the weapons i see performing better, theres nothing i do at present that warrants the upgrade, sorties certainly arent an incentive.

Aha, so now you are telling me that you don't need strong stuff. Any maybe you don't for the stuff you want to do, but I cannot agree that such players have equal amounts of experience or power as I.

Sure, I never turn down from my party low MR players, but that's not from the certitude that they can always do something significant. It's from the certitude that I do not need their help, that I can easily compensate for their weakness.

 

[Methanoid]

7 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Aha, so now you are telling me that you don't need strong stuff. Any maybe you don't for the stuff you want to do, but I cannot agree that such players have equal amounts of experience or power as I.

Sure, I never turn down from my party low MR players, but that's not from the certitude that they can always do something significant. It's from the certitude that I do not need their help, that I can easily compensate for their weakness.

and while its great you are an experienced player, the entire point of recent comments is that high MR does not equal skill, nor does simply owning one of the meta weapons you mentioned, im guessing even if you yourself took control of a MR0 character that had all the required mods/etc and had various modded MR0 weapons like braton prime, lex prime, nikana prime you would still be able to complete your sortie mission regardless of your low MR, why should a skilled player be excluded just because of a meaningless MR number which only equates to "Grind Level" not skill level.

The discussion here atm is that MR does not equal skill, and it does not, and never will, OP wants to increase the MR requirement to further exclude players from sorties, be they skilled or not, this is wrong.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Methanoid

[Uan91]

unlock sorties should be the last object that everyone should aim, now it's nearly open to everyone, and most of the players the i found barely knows how the type of mission works...i agree with raising up the minimal MR

[Methanoid]

3 minutes ago, Uan91 said:

unlock sorties should be the last object that everyone should aim, now it's nearly open to everyone, and most of the players the i found barely knows how the type of mission works...i agree with raising up the minimal MR

and how would raising the MR requirement "fix" people not knowing something in a game which has a historical problem of players NEEDING to consult a wiki to find things out, raise it all you like, again high MR does not mean someone magically gains insights into how things work, the game is far too void of information needed for players to learn what they need to learn.

They arent going to learn how a mission works by just mindlessly grinding more frames/weapons.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Methanoid

[KIREEK]

The sorties aren't just for players looking for riven mods, they are a core part of the game that awards endo, lens and other usefull things for newer players, locking that sort of crucial gameplay component over a huge grind wall (aka leveling stuff for the sake of it) is exactly why the MR should remain as it is, otherwise players only see it a a huge grind chore, potentially making them leave the game

Easy to get in, hard to master, that's warframe objective. The sorties require several quests to be completed and areas unlocked, while you can do the missions, some rewards (like riven mods) require a higher mastery, but the important things like endo remain accessible.

Warframe is a sandbox game, you do what you want, the goal of the game isn't to get everything, that sort of choice is personal, in other words getting nearly everything shouldn't be a mandatory goal to play content in the game.