Mag 8.3 Feedback

[V3RUS]

It would fit with a tank frame.

 

Maybe so. But considering how the devs don't want any frame to fit into an exact category, I would say she that she can combine a little bit of tanking with some casting. She does have quite good shields after all, and these abilities can definately be used to direct the attention of enemies to her if used in that way. Throughout the process though she really shouldn't be taking much damage, as enemies that have been pulled and then crushed really wont have been able to do any damage to her having been lifted into the air and thrown to the ground twice.

Edited July 5, 2013 by V3RUS

[NitroMidgets]

I can't comment. Why? Because I can't even finish a mission before the game crashes and that is after trying to play despite the massive lag and game freezing up for a 1-3sec randomly.

[lstalri]

Pull: No longer targets allies, 50 damage, AoE

Response: Targetting allies was pretty much what made pull different from every other ability in the game.  Sure, it was somewhat trolly, but when used properly, it was amazing.  50 damage is laughable.  AoE is nice because you don't have to have 100% accuracy. 

Finally: Useless

 

Shield Polarize: AoE
Response: So... just equip cryo rounds on your gun to do 2x damage to shields... and get a trin for your teammates (or just res them when they die and call it quits)...

Finally: Useless

 

Bullet Attractor: 300 damage on enemy death

Response: So basically, even if this is AI (armor ignoring) damage, you MIGHT be able to kill a lvl 30 grineer... and past that it pretty much functions the exact same as before (because an ability that doesn't 1-hit is effectively useless in this game if it doesn't have amazing CC, or unless you have other people doing amazing CC and you're using solely abilities to do your damage (wave 50+ with Vaub/Trin/Frost/Saryn)). 
Finally: Useless

 

Crush: no change

Response: Why? It can't even kill a lvl 40 grineer, how do you expect this ability to be able to do anything in the slightest?

Finally: useless

[Frostmire]

haters everywhere                  .

 

Myself just want Mag to have more ultilities , don't really care about the damage ....

[Ace_Player]

Like! Good job DE! Time to get out my Mag and Rhino and forma all the things!

[correcthorse]

Crush. Ah, no loving for Crush. I do wish it would be tweaked to behave like toxic damage, which would ignore shields / armor. Would make a lot of sense!

I think that most, if not all, damaging warframe abilities should somehow get past armor (not necessarily shields, though it makes sense in Crush's case). High enemy armor, from what I've read, tends to make abilities like Crush & 3/4ths of Ember's skillset nigh useless.

[Mietz]

Maybe so. But considering how the devs don't want any frame to fit into an exact category, I would say she that she can combine a little bit of tanking with some casting. She does have quite good shields after all, and these abilities can definately be used to direct the attention of enemies to her if used in that way. Throughout the process though she really shouldn't be taking much damage, as enemies that have been pulled and then crushed really wont have been able to do any damage to her having been lifted into the air and thrown to the ground twice.

 

I don't want to run a tank frame, Mag was not advertised as a tank frame.

Mag is not Rhino.

 

Also her "chains" are too expensive. 125 energy (pull+crush) for essentially the same effect as 75 energy Bastille on Vauban? Whatever the F*** for?

 

Mag blows harder than pre "buff" right now.

[jallers]

je ne me plaind pas de bullet attractor , sa va ,l a bien été amélioré(sauf au niveau des point faible)

le bouclier devien assé bien mais j'aurais largement préféré rechargé mes propre bouclier(mais sa reste cool)

et pour le grab il été bien mieux avant (monocible / ne pouvait pas etre utilisé dans le vide / sauvetage d'allié /stun) mais maintenant je ne comprend plus rien a son utilité

 ce qui m'ennui c'est que sur les cartes de mod les nouvelles effets des sort ne sont pas marqués .

voila mon opinion sur les nouvelle mise a jour mag

[Cauldrath]

Pull: sometimes it just makes enemies fall down, but when it works it feels really good. It would be nice if it didn't put them all directly on top of you, though, making it impossible to move, which could be fixed by having a small minimum distance from you where the enemies will wind up. Probably just slightly farther than the range of a toxic's cloud, so the whole accidentally pulling toxics thing is no longer an issue.

Shield Polarize: unless we have some way of seeing if allies need shielding without putting your cursor over them constantly, the healing part of this isn't going to be very useful, even if the numbers were high enough. Using it on enemies is extremely underwhelming. Compare it to new Volt's Shock. Both of these abilities are generally going to be used on Corpus, so Volt is going to do more damage for 25 energy than Mag does for 50, and he can use it on enemies that don't have shields.

I would change it so it boosts both current and maximum shields for all allies within a certain radius, so you can use it proactively instead of reactively, shuts down enemy shield generation, and double the damage because shields should be considered weak against its damage type.

Bullet Attractor: every time I used it, it just made it so my guns (tested Strun, Ignis, Kraken) no longer dealt any damage, even if I aimed directly at the target. I would see enemy shots fly at and hit the target, though. Even if it worked, conceptually it doesn't feel worth 75 energy, especially when using it on regular enemies. I'd drop the energy cost to 50 and reduce the duration a little to compensate to make it better against fodder.

Note: all testing done on Hades with maxed Continuity, Streamline, Focus, Reach, and power mods.

[Einsig_SV]

Suggestion.

 

Mag's Pull can be "charged" for a brief period (half second) to switch its polarity. One polarity pulls enemies. The other pulls allies.

[41_ma3]

I'd just like to throw some ideas out here.

 

Single target Pull + Shield Polarize

Pull in + knockdown + take out shields on one enemy for a cheap package of 25 energy. Overbuffs ally shields.

 

Single target Pull + Bullet Attractor

Pull in + knockdown + attract projectiles to one victim. Repel bullets when cast on friendlies.

 

Single target Pull + Speed Buff/Debuff

C'mon, the original pull was definitely only worth 10 energy. For 25, it should really had carry a debuff of sorts. Slowing enemies and speeding allies up.

 

On existing powers

Shield Polarize

Say we just up the cost to 75 and have it:

1. Disable enemy shields permanently/temporarily

2. Provide invincible shields to allies in the radius for a short time frame, similarly to Trinity's Blessing

 

Bullet Attractor

Down the cost or make it guide to weakpoints. Fix the problems with shots not working inside the bubble and make it cost 50 energy.

 

Crush

Seriously, make it AP damage or something. Just specialize this uber for combatting Grineers and ancient infested. Have Mag be an anti armor frame ya?

 

Okay, I've gotten that out of my system. Thanks for reading. Appreciate if ideas are acted upon.

[V3RUS]

I don't want to run a tank frame, Mag was not advertised as a tank frame.

Mag is not Rhino.

 

Also her "chains" are too expensive. 125 energy (pull+crush) for essentially the same effect as 75 energy Bastille on Vauban? Whatever the F*** for?

 

Mag blows harder than pre "buff" right now.

 

I didn't say that she was a tank frame. I said that she "can" combine a little tanking with casting due to her shields. But then again, all warframes "can" tank damage to a certain degree with high enough shields/health. In fact, I went on to say that she shouldn't be taking damage, considering how long the enemies are stunned. 

 

Though you have a good point with Bastille. Vauban can do all that for far less. Of course Vauban still outclasses Mag by far, and many say he outclasses all warframes, but at least now Mag can stun-lock enemies to a good degree. She is described as "an expert in enemy manipulation" and she's better at that now than she was before.

[Mietz]

I didn't say that she was a tank frame. I said that she "can" combine a little tanking with casting due to her shields. But then again, all warframes "can" tank damage to a certain degree with high enough shields/health. In fact, I went on to say that she shouldn't be taking damage, considering how long the enemies are stunned. 

 

Though you have a good point with Bastille. Vauban can do all that for far less. Of course Vauban still outclasses Mag by far, and many say he outclasses all warframes, but at least now Mag can stun-lock enemies to a good degree. She is described as "an expert in enemy manipulation" and she's better at that now than she was before.

 

The problem isn't Vauban, its everyone else.

If all frames were as good as Vauban we wouldn't have this convo.

 

Right now a chain of Pull and Crush is massively expensive and not very reliable as Mag is still stationary during both Crush and Pull.

 

Even if I grant that its "better" than before in this single instance of chaining, its still way too expensive and the abilities by themselves still blow. Arguably in the case of Pull its now actually worse than before.

 

Right now she doesn't manipulate the enemy, she mildly inconveniences them. Even if you pull in more enemies now, without crush you can not do anything else with them. You pulled the threat right up to your knees and now what?

Edited July 5, 2013 by Mietz

[Lone_Tenno_Operative]

You guys can't be serious about the new Pull. New pull is beastly. Run up to a group of enemies, pull them all in front of you, then finishing blow them all at once.

You obviously are NOT Mag player, i bet that you leveled her to 30 and never touched her again, now you went to Mercury and pulled few  grieneers "oh man its BEAST" .

NO its NOT  , if you about to say that you are, make a screenshot that u have at least 5mill XP on her, than i'd believe, you know what you talking about

 

My thoughts exactly.

same as above

 

The more I see people complain about the change to Pull, and use the excuse that it can no longer "pull a downed ally out of trouble", the more I think those people are using Pull for a different reason. ;p

 

Pull sounds a LOT more fun now that it will grab a bunch of mobs, bring them toward you, and knock them all down so you can start using a fast ground finisher on them. The only downside to Pull is that it will still not bring the mob right to you, if you're at max distance (from what others have said). That is disappointing, but overall I think this change is FUNtastic (I do enjoy using the Kogake).

 

1.No they are  not, they are people that playing Mag like all the time/defence missions/xini/late waves  and know how useful it was before ,  i can't tell how many times i saved people from poisonous clouds on xini, it was a lot and can't stress enough that the skill was awesome and now got so broken that it became almost useless

there was thread on how to fix Mag and pretty much majority said pull needs just reduce energy cost same as BA, the pull only needed energy reduction to 10 thats all it needed!

 

2. the word is "SOUNDS GOOD", sure sounds good, till you actually go and try it out yourself ,

till you are not a host and can't pull anything at all,

if you are host and pulls 5 poisonous and 5 disruptor ancients lv 70 at same time to your legs, than dies instantly in the clouds of poison

 

now the only thing Mag has going is crush

(but it gets enemies under floor now,i also have post on second page of this thread if u want to check it)

[jallers]

je vien de tester le grab plein de fois (15 fois , sans deconner , dans tt les sens possible) et  je n'ai pas grab  1 ennemis !!!! 

aujourdhui les develloppeur on charcuté mag franchement c'est injouable --'

[Rayth]

There seems to be some discrepancy in why people are playing Mag. The main thing seems to be people who run really high level defense missions for countless waves feel like she is too weak. The thing I don't get is why this is an issue, the dev team has already stated the game is not balanced past wave 20 or so. This has nothing to do with Mag being a bad frame, but everything to do with the fact that none of the frames are really intended to perform well past that point. Sure many frames have an ability (or if they are really lucky 2, looking at you Vauban) that still do something in the late waves of def, but they aren't intended to hold up that long. Yes it is impressive that so many players can last that long, but this has nothing to do with any frame being bad. And I'd like to point out that due to most late game defense missions starting at the highest tier of rewards (being 3), there is no reason to play a defense mission past wave 5, except as a challenge or for fun. We should be considering if a frame is bad or not based on all around game play, not on how well it survives wave 100 Outer Terminus, when we already know (as the Dev's have stated) that the game isn't balanced at that point.

 

 

Edit: Changed do to due.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Rayth

[Volunterrorist]

so bullet attractor is uselss  on bosses now?

 

orly?

 

[Mietz]

The thing I don't get is why this is an issue, the dev team has already stated the game is not balanced past wave 20 or so

 

The incompetence of DE is not an excuse, in fact it is a reason.

 

 

 

 And I'd like to point out that due to most late game defense missions starting at the highest tier of rewards (being 3), there is no reason to play a defense mission past wave 5, except as a challenge or for fun. 

 

So there is a reason. Challenge and fun.

[Mietz]

orly?

 

 

The glaive attraction is a bug, it will be hotfixed.

[Rayth]

So your telling me that the fact that they gave you the option to go well beyond the level of difficulty they had originally intended, but didn't want to overhaul every single item/weapon/frame/power/mechanic to fit this makes them incompetent? Well hell, seems like they should just take the ability to play beyond level 20 on a defense mission out of the game. It serves no purpose and them adding it clearly makes them incompetent in your mind.

[Cauldrath]

You obviously are NOT Mag player, i bet that you leveled her to 30 and never touched her again, now you went to Mercury and pulled few  grieneers "oh man its BEAST" .

NO its NOT  , if you about to say that you are, make a screenshot that u have at least 5mill XP on her, than i'd believe, you know what you talking about

Pretty sure you don't need 5mill Mag exp to know that old Pull was only useful in extremely specific situations - letting you turn terrible situations into bad situations. New Pull lets you turn neutral situations into good ones. Which happens more often, neutral situations or terrible ones? You can say that you saved people using it all the time, but I have trouble believe that means more than once a match unless you are playing with people who die all the time in the middle of swarms. Then you're just teaching them that it's ok it die in swarms because Mag will pull them out and isn't really useful for anything else (which is why most people ignore her after reaching 30).

Compare it to Sonic Boom, which lets you clear all the toxics away and then revive the person, and is still useful when someone isn't dead. All they have to do is put a small minimum distance between you and the targets you pull and then you can just clear the enemies off your downed ally by pulling them all, then go revive or have another ally revive. If you can tank a few ticks of poison damage, you can already do that.

[V3RUS]

The problem isn't Vauban, its everyone else.

If all frames were as good as Vauban we wouldn't have this convo.

 

Right now a chain of Pull and Crush is massively expensive and not very reliable as Mag is still stationary during both Crush and Pull.

 

Even if I grant that its "better" than before in this single instance of chaining, its still way too expensive and the abilities by themselves still blow. Arguably in the case of Pull its now actually worse than before.

 

Right now she doesn't manipulate the enemy, she mildly inconveniences them. Even if you pull in more enemies now, without crush you can not do anything else with them. You pulled the threat right up to your knees and now what?

 

It's like they said in the livestream, they make the frames better as they go. Currently Vauban is the best. That's not to say that Vauban is the problem.

 

Yes, the abilities by themselves still blow. And chaining is expensive. In short, she can still use work. Allowing for pulling teammates would be a way to improve her. There were some suggestions on allowing the two to coexist in this thread and in the Lets Fix: Mag Edition thread. 

 

You can chain Pull with itself though. Use it once, slash enemies, use it again after the enemies get up, slash enemies. With any well modded melee this tears through most enemies. Again, a bit risky around toxic ancients.

 

But it does lend itself slightly better to enemy manipulation or rather  "inconvenience" than before.

 

Mag's 2 and 3 skills definitely need some more work. Instead of her second skill I would rather see a completely new ability with a decent cost that is non AOE (currently all 4 of her abilities are) and lends itself more to "picking" out certain enemies, as she is supposed to be good in a 1v1 environment, and yet the only 1 on 1 ability she really has now is bullet attractor, and even that has an AOE effect (which isn't that useful on higher levels) that isn't worth the current cost.

 

However, that said, if the prices on the current abilities were re-evalued so that attacks could actually be chained properly without a massive cost, then she might suddenly find herself being a bit more useful. The current Pull is currently far, far more useful than Shield Polarize, and yet costs half as much.

[Volunterrorist]

The glaive attraction is a bug, it will be hotfixed.

 

You don't know that. The hotfix notes clearly say:

"Fixed multiple issues with Mag Bullet Attractor ability (FX on host/client, unintended projectile weapon behaviour, Glaive was not working with this ability)."

They made Glaive work with it. If anyone would have tested it, it would have been super easy to see.

[Mietz]

 

You can chain Pull with itself though. Use it once, slash enemies, use it again after the enemies get up, slash enemies. With any well modded melee this tears through most enemies. Again, a bit risky around toxic ancients.

 

 

No you can't because the cone is tighter at the center, i.e. if you pulled enemies from far away their distribution is wider than the pull will recognize.

Addtionally you will pull -more- enemies from further away, making your situation worse.

Not to mention enemies have short invincibility frames after being stunned and get up, no CC actually works on them for a few animation frames.

 

I had this problem with Grineer today that i actually -can't- chain-pull, or maybe its another bug where i need to be the Host for it to reliably work.

Which is still bad.

 

The quality of this rework/buff is horrible, they could have just waited until 9.0 and released something that first went through a minimum of internal testing.

[Mietz]

You don't know that. The hotfix notes clearly say:

"Fixed multiple issues with Mag Bullet Attractor ability (FX on host/client, unintended projectile weapon behaviour, Glaive was not working with this ability)."

They made Glaive work with it. If anyone would have tested it, it would have been super easy to see.

 

Its not gonna stick, I'm betting my right arm on it.