Mag 8.3 Feedback

[lZerul]

 

 

Or change it so Mag fires off an orb of magnetism that pulls enemies to the target area dealing up to 100 damage to them.

 

I like this idea a lot actually, it would make the skill more useable and desirable in general.

[BBYipho]

Alright. I'm going to be nicer this time. Played a bit longer and I have to say this.

 

I still don't like that I can't Pull allies. I guess I'm fine with pulling a bunch of enemies but I seriously want to pull that one downed ally more then anything else right now.

 

Shield Polarize is decent. Instead of around 390 with Focus mod I'm getting 500 with it. I still think it should be a no delay shield recharge with an increase recharge rate for a period of time. Still does nothing to enemies with no shields. Would be nice if something can be done to that. Also if I use S.P. in Pluto on a group of Corpus shielded by a drone. I would expect more damage be done to the Osprey per enemy shielded. The damage is still laughable against later Shield Ospreys.

 

I think we need to rework or remove Bullet Attractor.

 

Crush should still be changed into something more unique in my opinion. Mag should do more damage to Armored enemies.

[SirNerdsAlot5]

I like this idea a lot actually, it would make the skill more useable and desirable in general.

I aim to please :)

[adamkie]

I like this idea a lot actually, it would make the skill more useable and desirable in general.

 

Isn't that exactly like Vaubans Vortex?

Edited July 6, 2013 by adamkie

[adamkie]

I'll copy-pasta the OP from this recently locked general feedback thread (ced23rick decided it "run its course", whatever that means. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/73833-mag-now-lower-than-usless-tier-patch-83/) because i think it generally summarizes a lot of the new Mag feedback so far.

 

I also removed some of the language and replaced with "[]" because it seems it upsets people and makes them troll I guess:

 

------

 

When we, the Mag players, asked for a Mag rework we didn't ask for everything to be made AOE.

We didn't want more DPS or easier usability.

 

What we wanted are useful abilities that do not blow and are not situation for only ONE very specific situation but are used in moment to moment gameplay.

 

Pull wasn't [bad] because it didn't pull more than one enemy, it was [bad] because it did so -inconsistently- and left the Mag open for -too [damn] long-. Pull sometimes did not pull the target all the way, sometimes enemies got stuck on pebbles and other obstructions. It didn't even do physical damage from collision, so one couldn't smack an enemy repeatedly against a railing until it died.

The animation took forever and left you entirely open to attack, it only became recently useful with the Kogake ground finisher as the heavier blunt weapons didn't animate fast enough for the ability CC.

 

These are the problems of Pull.

 

These problems were not solved by making it cAOE and removing the ability to target allies.

In fact, you have now created a situation where Mag pulls in enemies indiscriminately and hence took control away from the player. Imagine pulling Toxic ancients by accident, since there isn't any UI indicator how big the cone is or is not.

Thanks, we can finally kill ourselves faster. It's what I always wanted.

Yay.

 

Known bugs after the "buff": 

Enemies do -not- get pulled but just knocked over.

All other bugs persist.

 

Shield Polarize's problem isn't that it was single-target (since it already did do -feedback- when put on shield-ospreys). Its problem was that its DAMAGE was a FLAT VALUE that was OUTSCALED by enemy HP pools in ENDGAME, making the ability entirely pointless.

Not to mention it requires SHIELDS to be there in the first place, making it situational AND bad.

 

These are the problems of Shield Polarize.

 

Theses problems were not solved by making the ability AOE. The damage post wave 15-20 still blows. This ability has no value in Void or end-game missions. Its damage still blows. It adds nothing to the gameplay.

 

Known bugs after the "buff": 

Sometimes does not do feedback.

 

Bullet Attractor blew because it effectively reduced the DPS by denying aiming for weakspots. The ability had only -one- use and thats specific bosses, during regular gameplay the ability was uninteresting and a waste of a slot. Especially on Endless defense or Void missions this ability had no value.

 

These were the problems of Bullet Attractor.

 

These problems were not solved by adding a "bomb" to the ability. 300 damage of AOE can't kill anything post lvl 20, it does nothing to add utility or worth to the ability. I will not spam Bullet Attractor to add 300 dmg on enemy death, that is entirely unreliable and -still- doesn't let me actually shoot weakpoints on the enemy.

 

Known bugs after the "buff": 

With max Stretch Mod the bubble is enormous -> When inside the bubble the attraction does not work

Sometimes even outside the bubble the attraction does not work (with weapons that should)

Sometimes projectiles do no damage at all even when shot directly at the target inside the bubble.

 

Crush...you didn't change Crush, thank god.

 

Dear DE, you made it worse, please stop.

Edited July 6, 2013 by adamkie

[Ardha]

Mag30 here, never played high level defense missions but I wanted to give some feedback too.

 

Pull: I actually like its new area of effect, it can be useful with some weapon types (shotguns, Boar especially) and following up with another AoE skill (Shield Polarize or Crush). I noticed it somewhat instantly killed some low-armored Grineers, don't know if that's a bug or not.

Possible Improvements:

1) Mag is not a tank, so in order for Pull to not be a suicide move, it needs to be followed up by decent offensive capability. Excluding the situational weapons matter (as I said, using shotguns), this problem could be addressed by both improving her damaging skills (at least Shield Polarize) and increasing her energy pool: she's supposed to be a caster, and need to be able to cast another skill in order to make pull fully usable.

2) Mag users seem to miss her old ability to pull a single downed ally away form danger. This could be solved by having a "target" check: if targeting a downed ally (and only if downed, in order to prevent unnecessary interruptions), or even better if there's one in your cone of vision, Pull is changed to its previous version, and only pulls towards you that single downed ally.

 

Shield Polarize: giving it AoE is the right way to go in my opinion, basically for its defensive role (replenishing allies' shields). However, AoE damage to enemies is still pointless, mainly because shields regenerate, so having 10 enemies with shields down and then just attacking a couple of them would just negate most of the AoE damage.

Possible improvements:

1) Give it a disruptive effect, like disabling shield recovery for a couple of seconds. This is the only way to make its AoE damage not pointless.

2) An alternative could be to give it a supportive-role only. It boosts allies' shields and improve their delay and recharge rate.

[3) This is very situational: since it's called Shield Polarize, you could reverse the action of affected targets. In particular, Ospreys would actually damage other Corpus instead of giving them shields. Not extremely useful, but I find it fitting.]

 

Bullet Attractor: I really don't use this skill. Aside from its controversial main effect, adding AoE damage is not really an improvement, because it's just 25 energy points away from Crush, which is much better.

Possible improvements:

1) Lower its energy cost, 50 points would actually feel like a cheaper but useful-in-case-of-emergency Crush.

2) Change the way it works, entirely: it doesn't attract bullets to the enemy, but repels bullets from you (sending them back and dealing damage). Again, I don't know if this could be worth 75 points (the main problem here is the comparison with Crush, in my opinion), but for 50 I would use it for sure.

 

Crush: not much to say about this one, it's my most used skill and since I didn't reach high level defense missions yet I never had a problem with its damage output. However...

Possible improvements:

1) ... I feel its damage reduction is the exact opposite of what it should be. Why lower the damage to something that's heavily reinforced with metal, and thus very mag-susceptible?

It should actually do more damage to armored enemies, and less damage against light ones.

 

As an overall improvement to this frame, however, I really think it should have more energy.

It's a caster type after all, and both the usefulness of AoE Pull (following up with another skill) and of Bullet Attractor (I'd rather save up for Crush if I have low energy) is directly connect to this issue.

[MuhhhhKuh]

only one small question to all of those that complains that shield polarize cant kill anything, dont forget that it heal your allies quite fast, maybe the amount could be improved or a dot / hot could be added (or maybe cure the disruption from an ancient disrupter).

Why should everything kill anything or should do a huge ammount of damage if it has a nice support capability too.

[Beelzebubbles]

It's interesting how some people love the changes, and others hate them. I think the big difference is that all the changes made her more viable for average game content, but none of the changes made her viable for end game, which is where the problem really was.

[41_ma3]

One day later, I need another idea sink. Here goes nothing.

 

Pull

Add a speed debuff to it, and don't forget to to make it remove shield lancer's shields (I believe there is no other way to do this now save for Radial Disarm and maybe death). FX indicating area of effect is helpful.

 

Shield Polarize

A suggestion:
Shield Polarize->Shield Collapse: All targets within a range of (5/10/15/20m) the target have their shield removed (destroys shield osprey automatically).  They take damage equal to a percent (20/40/60/80%) of the shield value removed as electricity damage.  Those effected by Shield Collapse are stunned and can't regenerate shields for (2/4/6/8s).

Expanding on this idea, have it also recharge/regenerate ally shields and/or provide shield invincibility for the same amount of time as above. Turn this in to the fourth skill for Mag if necessary.

 

Bullet Attractor

If keeping the same function, cost 35 energy tops. Seriously, lower the damn cost. And fix the problems surrounding it. Otherwise just change it. From what I read, something among the lines of a bullet repulsor does seem a good replacement. Imagine a bubble around Mag that returns gunfire back to sender (as well as repulse melee range opponents? Maybe not).

 

I also remember reading about a post that puts Mag in the role of a railgun. Something like digging a piece out of the environment and just launch it towards your victims. This I like. If Crush's damage ain't gonna be scaled proportionally to armor values, replace with this. Narrower AOE, higher damage;-)

 

Magnetism rules, Mag... not so much. The Great Warframe Buff this might be, the changes to Mag so far seem pretty baby steps; I think we can go a little further than just tweaking existing powers. Have a nice day, people.

[Onbashira]

I can't think of a situation where one of mag's powers is more relevant than crush.  A 2 second stun with lots of damage was my default reaction to someone downed.

[Xandorai]

A fix, or new addition of an old feature, that could be added to the new Pull was suggested up above a few posts. Allow Pull to be an AoE pull on mobs, but if there is a downed ally in its range at the time of use, the ally would pulled (or allies) to Mag. I think this would satisfy everyone...except for those who just used Pull to bring other players to various areas.

 

I've seen a lot of people use Toxic Ancients as an excuse to get Pull reverted back to its old version, I can somewhat understand that....those things are bad. Yet, while using Toxics, they always mention pulling an ally out of a pack of mobs that includes a Toxic (or more than one)...so the above tweak to Pull would work for you all.

 

I do wish Crush would get a bit of re-work, though it did receive a small buff in the form of staggering/stunning mobs affected by it, I think we can all agree that it main issue with Crush was its lack of damage at higher levels. Many people bring up that Crush should work best on armored mobs, using the argument at the armor is metal. Well, like someone else said...what if the Grineer are not using metal based armor? I'm sure a civilization that is capable of sending troops into space, of mining asteroids, and even cloning themselves can make lightweight, resilient armor for their troops (maybe its some composite material?). So the armor = metal = high damage Crush no longer makes sense to me.

 

I would rather have Crush ignore armor entirely, and shields...just do direct HP dmg, like exploding the iron contained in blood. =)

 

Anyway, I think too many people are getting really bent out of shape over Pull (the other skills deserve the angst), so maybe we should try and push for Pull to be tweaked in the way suggested up above, something like have Pull make a check: 

 

No dead players in range = Pull to Mag for ground massacre!

 

Dead players in range = Pull all to Mag for revive!

[Sappow]

I'll copy-pasta the OP from this recently locked general feedback thread (ced23rick decided it "run its course", whatever that means. https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/73833-mag-now-lower-than-usless-tier-patch-83/) because i think it generally summarizes a lot of the new Mag feedback so far.

 

I also removed some of the language and replaced with "[]" because it seems it upsets people and makes them troll I guess:

 

------

 

Shield Polarize's problem isn't that it was single-target (since it already did do -feedback- when put on shield-ospreys). Its problem was that its DAMAGE was a FLAT VALUE that was OUTSCALED by enemy HP pools in ENDGAME, making the ability entirely pointless.

Not to mention it requires SHIELDS to be there in the first place, making it situational AND bad.

 

These are the problems of Shield Polarize.

 

Theses problems were not solved by making the ability AOE. The damage post wave 15-20 still blows. This ability has no value in Void or end-game missions. Its damage still blows. It adds nothing to the gameplay.

 

Known bugs after the "buff": 

Sometimes does not do feedback.

 

 

You realize shield polarize was changed again in the drone event patch, so its damage is now % based right? It's 50% of maximum shields drained/charged for all in the area at max rank. Two casts strip shields entirely.

 

The feedback explosions don't seem to be working properly, but, well, Shield Polarize is now a scaling nuke (albeit a situational one).

[Visedi]

Or just simply make it pull one target if you're targeting someone (including allies), but if you're targeting noone it pulls only enemies in a cone AOE.

 

If you pull one enemy, he takes increased damage and gets knocked down for far longer. Increase the base duration of knockdown of the cone AOE aswell.

 

Then go from there if it needs something else.

Edited July 6, 2013 by Visedi

[Sappow]

Bullet Attractor

If keeping the same function, cost 35 energy tops. Seriously, lower the damn cost. And fix the problems surrounding it. Otherwise just change it. From what I read, something among the lines of a bullet repulsor does seem a good replacement. Imagine a bubble around Mag that returns gunfire back to sender (as well as repulse melee range opponents? Maybe not).

 

 

THis is really it. Bullet Attractor's current incarnation is a perfectly fine skill, in that it 100% disables heavy units temporarily by making them shoot themselves, and putting it on a mook in a crowd causes all of their friends to shoot them too. 

 

The issue is its just too expensive to justify ever casting, even with those properties. If it were a cheap skill, down to 25 or 35 or whatever, it'd be much more viable. I'd rather have a cheaper skill I can use more often than see the skill's power boosted up to the tier that the worth-it 75 cost abilities are, anyway. I mean, look at what else is in the 75 power league... Fire Blast, Chaos, the new Rhino Roar, Trinity's Link, Vauban's Bastille... Making bullet attractor in the same league as those skills would be pretty hard without totally redesigning the nature of the skill.

 

I'd rather it was just cheaper, so I could use it freely in more situations comfortably.

[adamkie]

You realize shield polarize was changed again in the drone event patch, so its damage is now % based right? It's 50% of maximum shields drained/charged for all in the area at max rank. Two casts strip shields entirely.

 

The feedback explosions don't seem to be working properly, but, well, Shield Polarize is now a scaling nuke (albeit a situational one).

 

You realize that this is not my OP? I only copy-pasted it because it has generally true statements I find to be in agreement with most of this thread.

 

Yes the change now lets me strip shields better, this still means that it does need to have shields to be of use, i.e. the skill is now good damage wise but does nothing if the enemies do not have shields (infested).

 

Furthermore, even with the new value, the shield-strip does not work on fast recovery bosses. I.e. I can not shield-strip Hyena, it will regenerate between casts.

 

The -only- way Shield Polarize is useful is through feedback on shield ospreys, since it will do actual damage and not just remove shielding. Its an extremely situational ability against only one faction, that is currently bugged and does nothing consistent.

 

As for its restore functionality, it is unreliable as we do not know when to use it because the "team-UI" is hidden behind a button (Q). Also a restore is  already done automatically by a sentinel and we have no idea when NOT to waste Shield Polarize because the sentinel will do it automatically.

 

Being a support frame and buffing/restoring resources currently is a pain in the &#! because the UI is bad.

[Revenant102]

After I saw that Mag had gotten a rework I dragged mine out of retirement to give her some testing.  I actually had a lot of fun with the old power configuration on Mag and I was curious to see what the changes meant for how she handled with my playstyle. 

 

After a little bit of a learning curve to get used to how things work now (and about 15 minutes of giggling like an idiot as I used Pull to kill troopers on M Prime) I came to the conclusion that I really like what's been done with Mag.  I'm always carting around enough firepower to deal with just about anything I pull onto myself that isn't a dozen high level disruptors, and I found that chaining pull and crush was fantastic for dealing with enemies that stubbornly wanted to stay outside my already fantastic kill radius.  The one thing I did miss, which might have just been a matter of my aim, was being able to strip the shields from Shield Lancers, but once they're face down on the ground it hardly matters if they have a shield, since I have Hek.

 

Mag went from being a little bit of an odd duck to play (especially after I ran Ember and Banshee for a few months) to fitting into my style again like she'd never left.  I feel that the changes to her powers reflect a 'high risk, high reward' concept that is a lot of fun to embrace, while still having a not insignificant amount of utility and the Ult that made me fall in love with Warframe in the first place.

 

In my final opinion: long live new Mag!

[Casardis]

Has anyone tested the change on patch 8.3.1 for Shield Polarize, which is now percentage-based?

 

For instance, is it affected by Stretch (for radius) and Focus (for more shield depletion)?

[lZerul]

Isn't that exactly like Vaubans Vortex?

 

Vauban's Vortex does a lot more damage and pulls everything that enters the Area.

 

His proposed version of pull would work just like the current pull, but pull them to the target, instead of the Mag.

[Sappow]

Has anyone tested the change on patch 8.3.1 for Shield Polarize, which is now percentage-based?

 

For instance, is it affected by Stretch (for radius) and Focus (for more shield depletion)?

 

It seems to be by stretch. There's no real graphic to show range, though, so I can't be sure. I do not have a Focus so I can't report on that. It'd be easy to test, though. Just go see Hyena or something else you can reliably encounter with a giant shield, and see if you take off more than 50% with a maxed polarize and Focus.

[Ninjamander]

pull only work if your the host..wont pull Allie and/or remove shield lancer shield...shield polarize..is kinda a joke...and only useful on defence mission to heal the crypod...bullet attractor?...only good if you have the glaive or excalibur javelin...crush...seem ok even if i wish it would deal more damage..enough to take out the trash (small enemy in one shot)

 

I want the old mag back already vv

Edited July 6, 2013 by Ninjamander

[Brosagi]

Crush really should ignore armor. Many other Ults do, and it's damage is pathetic against Grineer and Corpus, sometimes dealing less than 100 damage.

[adamkie]

Vauban's Vortex does a lot more damage and pulls everything that enters the Area.

 

His proposed version of pull would work just like the current pull, but pull them to the target, instead of the Mag.

 

Hmm, still seems rather similar, I'd rather Mag had something unique.

[HomeyCDawg]

I highly disagree with those who are lamenting the loss of old pull (new pull is waaaay better. Don't do pull/crush, do pull/gun&melee instead. You want them in a big pile in front of you).

 

However, I very much agree with the general sentiment that Crush needs armor ignore/pierce. It's much better as a CC power now that enemies don't land on their feet afterwards, but it's still suppose to be doing damage, which it fails at beyond mid-level enemies, especially grineer. The new pull/finishing blow combo I find a better CC against level 30+ grineer than crush atm.

[Sappow]

pull only work if your the host..wont pull Allie and/or remove shield lancer shield...shield polarize..is kinda a joke...and only useful on defence mission to heal the crypod...bullet attractor?...only good if you have the glaive or excalibur javelin...crush...seem ok even if i wish it would deal more damage..enough to take out the trash (small enemy in one shot)

 

I want the old mag back already vv

 

They fixed pull not working if you're not the host already, you clearly haven't actually played today (or yesterday).

[SirNerdsAlot5]

Isn't that exactly like Vaubans Vortex?

 

No because my idea for it is that it wouldn't gradually pull people to the target area, but instead immediately force them to that spot. Also, it will no affect friendlies like Vortex, nor do damage like Vortex.