Mag 8.3 Feedback

[jallers]

dommage que lon puisse pas se la faire remboursé

[Kobalt]

You obviously are NOT Mag player, i bet that you leveled her to 30 and never touched her again, now you went to Mercury and pulled few  grieneers "oh man its BEAST" .

NO its NOT  , if you about to say that you are, make a screenshot that u have at least 5mill XP on her, than i'd believe, you know what you talking about

I too believe that the new Pull IS beast! Prior to the patch it's only purpose was not saving allies. It was also one of the few good scaling damage 1 abilities in the game. Couple with a weapon with a good ground attack or good heavy charge it technically scaled better than most 1s. Now this scaling is greatly increased offensively and it capable of killing entire rooms of enemies with one swing. If you like the support thing, grab a weapon with a radial jump slam, put north wind on it and combo jump slam with pull for an extended stun.

The only case in which Pull has lost anything is if you are playing a duo game. This is the only case in which pull does not have the same or better effect than before. Pulling the enemies away from downed allies works just as well if someone else is there to revive them. Though I will admit it adds a linchpin of communication with your team. Anyone complaining about pulling toxic ancients can simply jump backwards while casting the skill and not have that problem!

People need to give these changes more of an active play before badmouthing them!

[jallers]

sinon quelqu un peut m'expliquer comment marche le grab de mag please

[Hauteclere]

I've updated my Mag thread from before to affect the changes noted here and seen in-game. I've noticed a lot of information has appeared here, so I'd really like to assist the Devs by increasing how easy it is to find this information via having it all summarized in one post.

 

Shall we assist each other? https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/56397-830-a-look-at-mag-suggested-tweaks-and-noted-observations/#entry583625'> A Look At Mag - Suggested Tweaks and Observations

 

I'll note that there was a thread also advertised prior to this one, me and that person have differing opinions based on different instances of testing. Whether or not his has been corrected to display the actual issues now has left to be seen. I will state however that he and myself will now be working together to see not only if our own opinions are valid, but also to allow for more objective observations on what occurs with these abilities.

 

I feel this is the best way to work threads like this and this one.

We probably will also be still posting our findings here in this thread---but again I'd like for us to have a centralized area that reduces one having to wade through millions of pages just for a small piece of information.

[V3RUS]

No you can't because the cone is tighter at the center, i.e. if you pulled enemies from far away their distribution is wider than the pull will recognize.

Addtionally you will pull -more- enemies from further away, making your situation worse.

Not to mention enemies have short invincibility frames after being stunned and get up, no CC actually works on them for a few animation frames.

 

I had this problem with Grineer today that i actually -can't- chain-pull, or maybe its another bug where i need to be the Host for it to reliably work.

Which is still bad.

 

The quality of this rework/buff is horrible, they could have just waited until 9.0 and released something that first went through a minimum of internal testing.

 

 

Hmm. I tried it in a solo game and it seemed to work just fine for me. Pulled them, sliced a few, backed up so that the group was ahead of me, pulled again, sliced the rest. It may indeed be an issue with the known bug where if you're not host it just knocks them down. It works especially well against anything that isn't a heavy enemy.

 

I didn't notice the invincibility frame issue with CC. I waited until all the enemies had gotten up before using Crush. That's a problem.

[Onbashira]

Shield Polarize and Bullet Attractor are completely irrelevant.  Adding explosions to both only highlights how they pale in comparison to crush.  Two shield polarizes barely do as much as crush, cost as much, have less AOE, and are only hurting a guy's shield.  Bullet Attractor on did not need a buff for being cast on trash mobs, it needed to have a reason to bothered to be cast.  It isn't hard enough to land shots in this game to justify tagging a guy with an auto aim.

 

There seems to be some discrepancy in why people are playing Mag. The main thing seems to be people who run really high level defense missions for countless waves feel like she is too weak. The thing I don't get is why this is an issue, the dev team has already stated the game is not balanced past wave 20 or so. 

But she's useless at 10

[Ayarai]

Pull doesn't seem to work properly as a client, instead of actually pulling the mobs to you it either:

- Pulls the mobs a short distance towards you

- Doesn't pull mobs towards you but just makes them fall flat on their face where they stand

 

As a host the ability works as intended.

Edited July 5, 2013 by Ayarai

[Hauteclere]

Shield Polarize and Bullet Attractor are completely irrelevant.  Adding explosions to both only highlights how they pale in comparison to crush.  Two shield polarizes barely do as much as crush, cost as much, have less AOE, and are only hurting a guy's shield.  Bullet Attractor on did not need a buff for being cast on trash mobs, it needed to have a reason to bothered to be cast.  It isn't hard enough to land shots in this game to justify tagging a guy with an auto aim.

 

But she's useless at 10

 

That's funny, because I've gotten to wave 25 with little more than myself, a Mag player, and a Nyx. The Nyx didn't have to cast at all until the very end of that, and it was only because I was AFK for a moment.  I'll note I used my abilities mostly in that defense mission.

I'd say your method of using Mag is probably what was useless.

 

Shield Polarize can save a defense mission, and has always been able to do just that when used properly. Considering after the update it still allows this, I fail to see where the uselessness arguement comes from. Also regarding the use as an offensive weapon, it's obviously a skill designed for support--though while I admit it may not exactly be one we'll always get to use its still one good to have considering what I've experienced with Shield polarize on missions as high as Pluto on level 40 mobs. I'll note by the way that sheild polarize also has an interesting affect where it can actually cause real damage to the enemy, and kill them under the right circumstances regardless of how much HP they had so long as they had sheilds---though I've yet to find out the requisites for these circumstances.

 

By the way, the instances where I had that happen to me only required one shield polarize on Europa. So we can say this could be remedied by focus.

 

Bullet attraction also has its uses, and can still continue to have them if it is improved. It sill works against heavy enemies whom'd normally be a problem for at least a solo player whom may not have optimized weapons. I will state however that aim is not the only reason BA exists. It's also a defensive crowd control technique that contains enemy bullets and forces them back at them rather than at you. That means Napalm grineer blasts rushing back at the Grineer and burnng it alive prior to 8.3.0.

 

It seems to still be able to do this, by the way---though the size of BA may cause this to become less a plus if not properly managed.

 

Anyway. Your opinions seem to lack substance from my point of view.

[Onbashira]

Its better to bring someone who can prevent the pod from taking damage than to bring someone that can boost its shields.

I have focus and max shield polarize did about a 1/6th of a lv 28 bombard's shields.  I fail to conceive a situation where I wouldn't rather just use my gun.  If it is a support ability it should be designed as one.  A localized AOE shield restore would be good, like a mini blessing.

You are correct in that magnetize is good against grineer heavies when solo.  But being solo with bad weapons against a rarer enemy type only in one of three factions is too specific a use.  

[Cwierz]

Suggestions for mag,

Frame itself: Moar energy. 

Pull: Fix pull to bring enemies towards you, make the knockback always happen, and pull enemies that are knocked down. You could add damage to enemies on collision as well.

Shield polarize: should be DOT with numbers ticking once every 1 or 1/2 of a second in an AOE effect. Maybe like a significantly longer version of phorids roar

Bullet attractor: should have its size fixed (holy ****),  direct towards weak points, cast MUCH faster, and have the effect of sargas ruk's reversal field  ability. 

Crush: Add armor ignoring damage and knockdown. Possibly fling enemies around and such.

 

Also using bullet attractor you can throw a glaive/kestrel at an enemy and it will "grab" the glaive on the way back making it hit until 

A.) It dies

B.) You die

or

C.) The ability wears off.

but its usually A

 

If this was unintended I would like for it to remain because as of now it remains an amazing selling point of mag.

 

If mag had a shield polarize aoe and dot she could easily become one of the best boss killers on par with trinity

imagine, Cast shield polarize and bullet attractor on the boss. Throw your glaive for damage or kestrel for knockdowns. Bullet attractor targets the bosses weak point so you can blindly unload with a gorgon. The kind of damage coming from this would be insane. 

Edited July 5, 2013 by Cwierz

[PositronicSpleen]

Did some more testing with Mag, so I've updated my impressions.

 

I rarely feel like Pull is worth using. It is a guaranteed stun at all levels, which is good, but wouldn't it be better if it was Push? Or perhaps it could Push groups of enemies and Pull allies. Justify it with some weirdo nonsense like they're different magnetic polarities or something.

 

Bullet Attractor had none of its problems solved. Namely that it doesn't increase damage, and in fact directs bullets away from weak points (esp. bad if Sonar is active). This explosion thing is worthless and does not make up the difference. One solution is to make it only affect enemy bullets, and probably increase the range; this is the easy solution. The harder solution is to make it always direct bullets towards the most damaging weak point, or at least make every region of the enemy body take damage equal to the weakest point for a given attack so it's functionally the same.

 

Shield Polarize is still dumb. Shields are only common on Corpus (nonexistent with Infested, damage too low for the uncommon shielded Grineer), and its not easy to know when an ally (or several) really needs the help or not, not to mention actually being in range to use it. It needs some other utility besides shield manipulation, like a quick example, casting it on something does actual damage to surrounding enemies, or maybe they're magnetized to stick to the ground. Just something.

 

Crush works, but I was hoping to see it get reworked to not be boring. Something like picking up enemies and then throwing them at other enemies to mix AOE damage and target-capped damage. I don't know, be creative.

Edited July 5, 2013 by PositronicSpleen

[MuhhhhKuh]

Shield polarize is not bad with the new changes, at least it is not only a damage skill, because it heal shields of your mates and damage shields of enemies at the same time. (maybe the ammount could be a bit more or for example a % amount like 33% or similar // or maybe make a fixed value like 300 at instant and then for 3 sec a regeneration of another 100 shields each second, and the same as damage for enemies) ).
I test it with a friend and it regenerate his shields (seems a bit less then 400, have not the exact numbers (with max focus).

I find it realy usefull because it is much faster then the Blessing from trinity.

 

Pull is nice, make a defense vs infested and it is realy fun until the poisened ancients appear :D

Maybe pull should not "pull" the enemies directly to ones feet mayby they should drop 2m +- in front of ones feet.

Also it seem a bit buggy sometimes (or is it designed this way??) I tried it vs grineer, and those guys couldnt realy pulled, they only fall down the place they stand before.

But i like the mass pull of all enemies in the line of sight.

Maybe for those that use Pull to pull a friend that is downed, is it possible for the engine to recognize if a "fallen" friend is in the range of pull and that in this case only the friend is pulled and no enemy?

 

Bullet attractor seems bugged, couldnt see any damage that is caused by this skill atm, tried lvl 0 and lvl 3 bullet attractor, both with stretch and mags alternate helmet. Animation is visible like a blast, but no damage at all (on lvl 3 is the range of the orb a bit too big i think, but it would be nice if the damage blast would have this or even a larger range, then it could maybe halfway usefull if the damage does always 300 damage on the enemies regardless of defense of those.

But i think to make it usefull it would be nice if it would work similar to nyx ulti skill, example: you cast bullet attractor to an enemy, and you kill him before bullet attractor end, then every enemy in a mid range distance should get for example 50% of the damage the bullet attractor has "moved" to the marked targed. This damage should also do full damage on every target, otherwise it is useless in high defense missions or everything else with high level enemies.

But in this way it wouldnt be OP on mid lvl enemies, and on high lvl you have to kill them fast enough.

 

Crush seems a bit buffed with the ragdoll after the anmiation (feels much better :D)

Range is ok (if full buffed including alternate mag helmet)

But the damage ... if i look to other ulties of for example saryn (fast cast time, 4sec+- stun including high damage to every level of enemies (ok range is bit smaller, but full buffed damage output is enormous in comparison of crush.)

Maybe if crush would have anoter after effect like slower movement for some seconds, or armor reduction for some seconds for all those enemies that have survived (hey come on, the enemies were crushed to a little cube and they stand up as if nothing has happened :D)

At least the new rhino stomp is realy nice now and allows CC for 9 seconds, its a great change and made it realy useful :) (Crush is also useful but seems a bit weak now in overall comparison to those "good" ulties)

 

So from my side i like those changes, but i think that there is some capability to improve them a bit more, otherwise they were nice, but not usefull vs high level enemies.

 

Regards

MuhhhhKuh

[V0LK]

I just love that I won't be pulled around by stupid bored player anymore.

[JBS_1]

A suggestion:
Shield Polarize->Shield Collapse: All targets within a range of (5/10/15/20m) the target have their shield removed (destroys shield osprey automatically).  They take damage equal to a percent (20/40/60/80%) of the shield value removed as electricity damage.  Those effected by Shield Collapse are stunned and can't regenerate shields for (2/4/6/8s).

 

Reasoning:  Shields usually aren't all that hard to take down, so you need something more than just a shield damaging effect.  The stun and regen delay are attractive against bosses and elite units, and the feedback damage can punish groups of light units.  All numbers are just spitballing.

[carbondragon]

Eh well...If it still has the range cap you can take advantage of that to do the reverse of what we've been doing. Rather than pull our team mates away we can pull the enemy away. It'll take some adjusting, and it'll be quite a change---but it's viable, yeah?

 

Even though I do want my single pull---I think I can adjust if I use my head a little. I'd rather not turn down something that could turn out to be interestingly helpful later. Like in defense missions...when your cryopod is surrounded by Ancients. That's when pull becomes an amazing skill if it works like this, yeah?

 

Edit : By the way...what I mean by 'range cap' is the amount pull actually does depending on how far away you are from the enemy. If you're at the right length away from the enemy they won't come right to your feet---so if you're smart you can control how much 'pull' you get.

 

No, it's not viable. All the new Pull does is drag enemies off of a dead team mate to a living one, you. Then, if you can't destroy them fast enough, and likely you won't since they already killed one player, they're going to kill you too.

 

I use Crush as a stun when I need to get people off the Cryopod. Quite a long duration AND gets Toxic Ancients out of range of being able to poison the Pod.

 

The problem with knowing your exact range is that requires either an amazing sense of distance (rather difficult in this game seeing as rooms keep changing dimensions) or having some way to calculate it on the fly. That seems a little bit too work-intensive for a video game, eh?

 

@Volunterrorist

"WTF are you all talking about "Pulling the danger to mag" ?Do you even play Mag? Are you all serious?

 

Mag's pull knocks down the enemies for a good 2-3 seconds. Enemies can't kill you if they are on the floor.. Not to mention, if you are at max range, the enemies don't even get all the way to you.. they are only pulled half way.

 

This is nothing but a gigantic buff to the skill.  You can chain cast it 4 times and have the lockdown duration be more like 8-12 seconds.."

 

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realize I was supposed to be all the way across the room when I cast my "get the hell away from him" ability. Yes, enemies CAN kill you if they're on the floor. Level 68 Toxic Ancients certainly don't make good arm-candy after a few waves on Xini.

 

Or...you can use your ult and have it be nearly that long to start with AND stop the enemies where they are so that team mates can shoot them, with no danger to you. The thing is underwhelming for damage anyway, so it's best used as an 360 degree AOE stun. Mag has no business dragging danger off of other players and onto herself. She isn't tanky enough to take the damage and isn't fast enough (like Loki, who also has a "get the hell away from him" skill) to escape the danger she's now forced to put herself in.

[dragonslayer667]

should just take away mags first 3 skills and make crush armor ignore affect enemies that enter after cast and actually magnetize them together so they all crumple into a tight mass somewhere in the effect.

 

seriously though only 2 other ults have a range this small frosts atleast affect enemies who enter during its effect and we all know saryns is op as hell.

Edited July 5, 2013 by dragonslayer667

[anologclock]

Doesnt anyone c the potential of pull? Pull out of range mobs swarming ur allies and follow quickly with a crush

[carbondragon]

How about making it so that when you're directly targetting an ally (which is quite hard sometimes since they move around so much), it will pull them towards you? This way we can have two-in-one. It's possible that "accidents" can happen, but I'm sure it can please a few.

 

Can I upvote this a hundred thousand times?

[Sappow]

Bullet Attractor would be fine if it wasn't so expensive. Even with the explosion and greater emphasis on the bullet-catching disabling element of it, its still REALLY hard to justify casting at 75 energy, when you're just a hair away from Crushing instead.

 

If it were 25 or 35 energy or so instead, it'd be a lot easier to justify using it to lock down heavy units.

[BBYipho]

Doesnt anyone c the potential of pull? Pull out of range mobs swarming ur allies and follow quickly with a crush

 

That's heavily not energy efficient. Also people hate it if you take them away in the middle of attacking enemies. We seriously just need to be able to yank the downed ally. I seriously hate the new Pull. It's not helpful, it feels like a waste.

 

Anyway to discussions I've seen about Shield Polarize. It just needs to be a recharging shield value. The AoE is nice but wasn't really what people wanted. Still useless against 80% of enemies in-game. Nice to heal the cryo pod but doesn't really help the fact it's getting beaten off in seconds.

 

Bullet Attractor....... This skill is what needed heavy reworking. It really ruins people's aim. I'm actually at the point that I kind of want this removed if they don't change it to only effect bullets leaving the sphere.

 

Crush! The ragdolls! Seriously no... We can't ground stab ragdolls only those in the knocked down animation.

[MJ12]

I suggest making Pull "Levitate", as in "every enemy in the current area of effect is lifted into midair for 2/3/4/5 seconds and rendered helpless.

 

Shield polarize... I'd make it the old pull + shield polarize as it is now, except instead of pulling all enemies to you, fire a hitscan trace and pull nearby enemies to the impact point, then activate current shield polarize. That means it's CC + Radial Damage from all shielded enemies, and if you get a lot of shielded enemies you can get a fairly solid amount of stacking damage.

 

Bullet Attractor should be replaced with a defensive skill of some sort. I'd make it Bullet Repulsor, deflecting incoming ranged attacks back to their firers.

 

And Crush should ideally ignore armor. That'd make Mag a high-tier Warframe.

[HomeyCDawg]

You obviously are NOT Mag player, i bet that you leveled her to 30 and never touched her again, now you went to Mercury and pulled few  grieneers "oh man its BEAST" .

NO its NOT  , if you about to say that you are, make a screenshot that u have at least 5mill XP on her, than i'd believe, you know what you talking about

 

You are very presumptuous. Mag was my starter frame, and I've put over 7mil XP on her.

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/615022620896569310/A2B47E9DC2B778882052E68456375619F71E1568/

 

And yes, it is beast. An no, I didn't go to mercury to try it out, I took her on some solo runs through Ceres and Pluto, and yes it is beast.

 

I rarely say this except to people who display arrogance, but L2P my friend. New pull is awesome.

[Omegarick]

Pull isn't pulling anything for some reason lol

[Kyte]

My proposals:

 

Pull -> Magnet Rise. A small scale Bastille, using its current cone of effect. Bonus effect: Continuity now has greater value.
(Credit: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/73286-mag-83-feedback-thread/page-7#entry796672 for the idea).
Alternatively:
Pull -> Magnet Pull. Make the target into an enemy magnet for X seconds. Enemies that collide would receive damage the way Paris/Kunai does with ragdolls. Stretch would increase the pull radius. Continuity would keep the effect going for longer. Again, Continuity would be more valuable.

Shield Polarize -> Make it deal percentage-based shield DoT (empties shields and prevents regeneration). So long as there's shields to deplete, each tick will cause a radial damage blast. Allies get a buff to shield regen (No delay and 1.5x regen speed, boosted by Focus). Bonus effect: Continuity now has greater value.
Alternatively:
Shield Polarize -> An instant Magnet Pull followed by the current Shield Polarize. Attracts all enemies to a point, then Shield Polarize provides damage. Would need Pull to be changed to Magnet Rise, natch.

Bullet Attractor -> Bullet Repulsor. Reflects bullets and whatnot.
Alternatively:
Bullet Attractor -> Make the bubble larger (not as fuckhuge as right now, though) and have it only redirect outgoing shots (ie. shots that misses or enemy shots). Would basically defend by redirecting enemy fire rather than blocking the way Snow Globe does, while not messing with Sonar/weak spot targeting.

Crush -> Add armor ignore. It wouldn't be ridiculously OP, it'd do just a bit less than Miasma. Miasma offers a fairly long post-cast stun and a quick cast time. Crush would have long range and a knockdown (which is a shorter CC than stun), tempered by a long animation (risk of enemies getting into range).

 

Oh and give Mag 150 base Energy because it's supposed to be a caster frame.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Kyte

[GTG3000]

I really love what you done with Pull, and I hope bullet attractor will be somewhat fixed, since now it's making HARDER to kill what's inside (it is... QUITE bigger now, too, but I guess a damaging ability should be like that. Also, damage seems quite miniscule, but eh, that's damage, what will you do to it).

 

Personally I would love to see the shield polarize to be a ranged ability with such AoE, but it is really good as it is now.