Can we please move focus lens rewards somewhere else please?

[lightdragon64]

I mean honestly it is one of the most infuriating things to me when i do a sortie like today's with a radiation spy (which was bad but doable) and finishing it off with the raptor assassination with physically enhanced enemies meaning getting one shot is a normal thing... after 3 attempts at that last one what is my reward for all my stress and annoyance at the poorly balanced assassination mission? a god forsaken maduari focus lens...

would it be too hard to move the lens rewards somewhere else? like perhaps spy missions on the moon or in assault missions on the kuva fortress? or other places where it would be fitting to find them? in sorties i may not like it when i get endo as a reward, but at least i can use it to upgrade my enormous amount of un-upgraded mods... but a lens? personally unless it's a vazarin lens i have little to absolutely no use for it, as my vazarin focus is all i tend to use, and seeing as how i very rarely get the lens i use it is even more frustrating to me... seriously i wouldn't mind farming a lens if it was available anywhere other than a sortie... and i bet i'm not the only person who thinks this way?

 

thoughts?

[NativeKiller]

4 minutes ago, lightdragon64 said:

I bet I'm not the only person who thinks this way.

No, you are not alone.

[Mama_Sasha]

7 lenses so far on my end (Then i sodl them for credits out of frustration). I figure that they are pretty proud of the focus system, we defintly get the idea, but certainly, theres gotta be a more adequate, and fitting way of getting lenses than doing sorties.

Plus, i believe that the rarity colors are mixed up. The Riven, consider its Magenta color, sould have its name as Magenta since thats how it feels like

[ArchPhaeton]

Every player I've met feels cheated upon getting a lens, specially after annoying/long missions like Bow def among others.

[Mama_Sasha]

Just now, ArchPhaeton said:

Every player I've met feels cheated upon getting a lens, specially after annoying/long missions like Bow def among others.

Thats how it is for me, especialy since i always play solo. its like *Oh? You worked hard to complete this sortie? Want a Riven? Pfft, you dont want that, have anotehr lens*.

[TruthArbiter]

They simply do not belong there. The most glaringly obvious reason is that they are a poor reward. Another is that they are too far away from TSD. By that I mean that once you complete TSD and get your first lens you have to complete TWW to get more and it's RNG to get a lens. This worked fine before DE moved sorties to only be available to people who have completed TWW. I think they should drop from Sentients or some where on Lua.

[Telluric]

8 minutes ago, TruthArbiter said:

They simply do not belong there. The most glaringly obvious reason is that they are a poor reward. Another is that they are too far away from TSD. By that I mean that once you complete TSD and get your first lens you have to complete TWW to get more and it's RNG to get a lens. This worked fine before DE moved sorties to only be available to people who have completed TWW. I think they should drop from Sentients or some where on Lua.

This is the main reason that they need to be removed from the table. It's forcing post-TSD players to trade for lenses or go to the market to buy them if they want to build up their focus schools. NOT EVERY PLAYER CAN ADVANCE RIGHT TO THE WAR WITHIN.

[Drasiel]

19 minutes ago, TruthArbiter said:

They simply do not belong there. The most glaringly obvious reason is that they are a poor reward. Another is that they are too far away from TSD. By that I mean that once you complete TSD and get your first lens you have to complete TWW to get more and it's RNG to get a lens. This worked fine before DE moved sorties to only be available to people who have completed TWW. I think they should drop from Sentients or some where on Lua.

 

10 minutes ago, Telluric said:

This is the main reason that they need to be removed from the table. It's forcing post-TSD players to trade for lenses or go to the market to buy them if they want to build up their focus schools. NOT EVERY PLAYER CAN ADVANCE RIGHT TO THE WAR WITHIN.

exactly this. Lenses need to be moved to a lower access area. They no longer belong in sorties, and they certainly don't belong in the kuva fortress missions (it's past tww too) lenses would be great as an endless mission reward on the moon.

[d3athnight]

please please you take out 2k endo and give a statue for 3.8k endo ffs take out normal lens and boosters they are garbage no one wants to get that crap from sorties instead of taking something out that would help all "normal len" you take out 2k endo that was very usefull anyways I would rather the 2k endo any day over normal lens please do they think befor things like this?

[lightdragon64]

I'd ask for everybody here to avoid any dev bashing of any sort... anyways the main reason i posted this topic is to draw attention to the issue and for people to come up with plausible places for a lens to drop. while I'll admit that a lens isn't the only thing that could stand to be removed from the sorties (boosters, catalysts, reactors, ect..) it is most definitely one of the rewards that desperately needs to be moved somewhere else.

I'll summarize some good points for moving them:

-It's frustrating (most players feel cheated by getting a lens, specifically on a difficult sortie)

-you need to have TWW completed in order to even get lenses (should be available instantly after TSD)

-Most people have little to no use for a lens (unless it is for their focus but even then it's not all that useful because 4 are needed to upgrade to a greater lens)

-sortie drop tables are so diluted with bad rewards for the difficulty of the missions sometimes that they need to be addressed anyways...

 

Plausible locations for a lens to drop

-Sentients on Lua (as a gaurenteed reward? in addition to anything else they may drop)

-spy missions on lua

-the shadow stalker (after the second dream) as a guaranteed reward after defeating him

-kuva fortress assault?

-all of the above?

 

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by lightdragon64

[Drasiel]

21 minutes ago, lightdragon64 said:

I'd ask for everybody here to avoid any dev bashing of any sort... anyways the main reason i posted this topic is to draw attention to the issue and for people to come up with plausible places for a lens to drop. while I'll admit that a lens isn't the only thing that could stand to be removed from the sorties (boosters, catalysts, reactors, ect..) it is most definitely one of the rewards that desperately needs to be moved somewhere else.

I'll summarize some good points for moving them:

-It's frustrating (most players feel cheated by getting a lens, specifically on a difficult sortie)

-you need to have TWW completed in order to even get lenses (should be available instantly after TSD)

-Most people have little to no use for a lens (unless it is for their focus but even then it's not all that useful because 4 are needed to upgrade to a greater lens)

-sortie drop tables are so diluted with bad rewards for the difficulty of the missions sometimes that they need to be addressed anyways...

 

Plausible locations for a lens to drop

-Sentients on Lua (as a gaurenteed reward? in addition to anything else they may drop)

-spy missions on lua

-the shadow stalker (after the second dream) as a guaranteed reward after defeating him

-kuva fortress assault?

-all of the above?

 

 

Kuva assault has the same issue as sorties: you have to complete tww first. Also what about endless moon missions like the survival and defense? That would be a good place for them too. 

[freeformline]

On 1/25/2017 at 8:49 PM, ArchPhaeton said:

Every player I've met feels cheated upon getting a lens, specially after annoying/long missions like Bow def among others.

Good to meet you, I run sorties with the specific goal of collecting lenses. I'm usually happy to get lenses, though I will admit I am a little disappointed when I get one that I don't really want, such as another Madurai or Unairu lens rather than what would be my second Vazarin lens ever, if I were lucky enough to get it.

I wouldn't mind lenses being moved out of sorties if they were put somewhere that granted fairly easy access to them, especially if the lenses were sorted such that you could run specific missions to get the one you wanted. My one fear would be that it would lead to lots of grinding in which you get essentially nothing worthwhile rather than at least getting lots of endo, credits, and occasionally riven mods when you don't get your lens.

[Shockwave-]

On 1/25/2017 at 11:37 PM, lightdragon64 said:

I mean honestly it is one of the most infuriating things to me when i do a sortie like today's with a radiation spy (which was bad but doable) and finishing it off with the raptor assassination with physically enhanced enemies meaning getting one shot is a normal thing... after 3 attempts at that last one what is my reward for all my stress and annoyance at the poorly balanced assassination mission? a god forsaken maduari focus lens...

would it be too hard to move the lens rewards somewhere else? like perhaps spy missions on the moon or in assault missions on the kuva fortress? or other places where it would be fitting to find them? in sorties i may not like it when i get endo as a reward, but at least i can use it to upgrade my enormous amount of un-upgraded mods... but a lens? personally unless it's a vazarin lens i have little to absolutely no use for it, as my vazarin focus is all i tend to use, and seeing as how i very rarely get the lens i use it is even more frustrating to me... seriously i wouldn't mind farming a lens if it was available anywhere other than a sortie... and i bet i'm not the only person who thinks this way?

 

thoughts?

No lots of people whine and cry about what they want and only they want. Lenses are fine in the sorites. If you remove all the sortie rewards then what will be left? whatever is left will suddenly be a "bad" reward because you get it all the time. If there aren't some "filler" rewards in the sortie then you can't have good rewards (as you can't always get good rewards).

The sorties are not that hard (radiation spy is no harder than regular spy with a loki) and the raptor mission is one of the easier boss assassinations on sortie.

I have more endo than i can possibly ever use, should that be removed for me? I also have more blue and gold potatoes than I can every possibly use... again what about those? Should those be removed because they are useless to me? You choose to only use one focus school, that's your problem.

The array of rewards for sortie seem eminently fair to the playerbase.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Shockwave-

[lightdragon64]

8 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

No lots of people whine and cry about what they want and only they want. Lenses are fine in the sorites. If you remove all the sortie rewards then what will be left? whatever is left will suddenly be a "bad" reward because you get it all the time. If there aren't some "filler" rewards in the sortie then you can't have good rewards (as you can't always get good rewards).

The sorties are not that hard (radiation spy is no harder than regular spy with a loki) and the raptor mission is one of the easier boss assinations on sortie.

O jave more endo than i can possibly ever use, should that be removed for me? I also have more blue and gold potatoes than I can every possbily use... again what about those? Should those be removed because they are useless to me? You choose to only use one focus school, that's your problem.

THe array of rewards for sortie seem eminently fair to the playerbased.

Lens rewards still should be removed and placed on lua however. At the moment anybody who completes the second dream will  be forced to buy lenses in the market with platinum if they can't get to the war within immeadiately (which is bad). 

Also i rarely see positive feedback upon recieving a lens of any kind from anybody on a sortie if anything the response usually is "oh well i can use this but i'd rather gotten something else" most the time people are extremely infurated, annoyed, or dissapointed.

and most people i usually talk to only have 1 focus (hence the name...) so leaving it up to rngesus to probably maybe give them the lens they need once a day is still bad, especially for those who don't want to buy them off the market.

Also I love it when people also constantly plaster up their belif of "well it's not a problem for me so obviously it's not a problem"

reward loot tables in sorties shouldn't all be good i never directly said or believed that. But what comes from sorties should be useful for things past TWW if they are going to lock it for anybody who hasn't completed it yet. Meaning lens rewards have to go because they are needed immeadiately post second dream...

Edited January 27, 2017 by lightdragon64
Typo

[Shockwave-]

3 hours ago, lightdragon64 said:

Lens rewards still should be removed and placed on lua however. At the moment anybody who completes the second dream will  be forced to buy lenses in the market with platinum if they can't get to the war within immeadiately (which is bad). 

Also i rarely see positive feedback upon recieving a lens of any kind from anybody on a sortie if anything the response usually is "oh well i can use this but i'd rather gotten something else" most the time people are extremely infurated, annoyed, or dissapointed.

and most people i usually talk to only have 1 focus (hence the name...) so leaving it up to rngesus to probably maybe give them the lens they need once a day is still bad, especially for those who don't want to buy them off the market.

Also I love it when people also constantly plaster up their belif of "well it's not a problem for me so obviously it's not a problem"

reward loot tables in sorties shouldn't all be good i never directly said or believed that. But what comes from sorties should be useful for things past TWW if they are going to lock it for anybody who hasn't completed it yet. Meaning lens rewards have to go because they are needed immeadiately post second dream...

So what? You get a first lens to try, get to see how focus is gained, then get more after TWW, that's not a terrible wait time.

Again SO WHAT? SOrties NEED bad rewards. Sorry, if every reward was "good" then they "good" rewards would become bad because you have too many of whatever it is. If LEGENDARY CORES were common in the sortie 3 months from now people would be complaining about getting cores, because they have 100 of them and they can raise every mod they need for free.... for cores and rivens and other things to be "good" rewards people are happy with, there MUST BE bad rewards they are not all that happy with.

I know of nobody with one focus, having one focus is the dumbest way to farm focus. Having multiple wepaons and frames with multiple focus lenses is far more efficient int he long run, if they are doing all one school they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Well i didn't DO THAT AT ALL ("well it's not a problem for me so obviously it's not a problem") I said lenses and potatoes and endo are ALL Things I don't personally need, but I feel the rewards are fine for players across the board, that other players do need those things. My post was as far from what you claim as possible, clearly you are  not actually reading the post but just making up whatever you think fits your argument.

Lenses are NICE post 2nd dream but not NEEDED. Clearly they can only be gotten en masse after TWW so they actually fit your requirement that only things useful past TWW. In addition DE has said a few times the focus system will be changing to incorporate operators... which will put it post TWW.

[Drasiel]

53 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

So what? You get a first lens to try, get to see how focus is gained, then get more after TWW, that's not a terrible wait time.

Again SO WHAT? SOrties NEED bad rewards. Sorry, if every reward was "good" then they "good" rewards would become bad because you have too many of whatever it is. If LEGENDARY CORES were common in the sortie 3 months from now people would be complaining about getting cores, because they have 100 of them and they can raise every mod they need for free.... for cores and rivens and other things to be "good" rewards people are happy with, there MUST BE bad rewards they are not all that happy with.

I know of nobody with one focus, having one focus is the dumbest way to farm focus. Having multiple wepaons and frames with multiple focus lenses is far more efficient int he long run, if they are doing all one school they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Well i didn't DO THAT AT ALL ("well it's not a problem for me so obviously it's not a problem") I said lenses and potatoes and endo are ALL Things I don't personally need, but I feel the rewards are fine for players across the board, that other players do need those things. My post was as far from what you claim as possible, clearly you are  not actually reading the post but just making up whatever you think fits your argument.

Lenses are NICE post 2nd dream but not NEEDED. Clearly they can only be gotten en masse after TWW so they actually fit your requirement that only things useful past TWW. In addition DE has said a few times the focus system will be changing to incorporate operators... which will put it post TWW.

Declares leveling up one focus school is inefficient and the wrong way to level up focus, also declares that lenses shouldn't be accessible to players who just unlocked focus. That's a bit of a contradiction. 

[Shockwave-]

7 hours ago, Drasiel said:

Declares leveling up one focus school is inefficient and the wrong way to level up focus, also declares that lenses shouldn't be accessible to players who just unlocked focus. That's a bit of a contradiction. 

Again not at all. There is no contradiction. I said leveling up one school with multiple lenses is not smart. This was in response to your claim that people were using only one school and therefore only wanted one type of lens and when they received a new lens type they considered it a "bad" reward. Obviously if you only have one you are only leveling one, but to not WANT a 2nd lens type when it comes you way and eschewing it for the same lens school on all your gear is inefficient in the long run.

Once again, not reading and digesting the entire argument before replying to an argument that was not made, but one you wish were made so you can quip about it.

[Drasiel]

53 minutes ago, Shockwave- said:

Again not at all. There is no contradiction. I said leveling up one school with multiple lenses is not smart. This was in response to your claim that people were using only one school and therefore only wanted one type of lens and when they received a new lens type they considered it a "bad" reward. Obviously if you only have one you are only leveling one, but to not WANT a 2nd lens type when it comes you way and eschewing it for the same lens school on all your gear is inefficient in the long run.

Once again, not reading and digesting the entire argument before replying to an argument that was not made, but one you wish were made so you can quip about it.

Uuuuuuuum actually you are the one not reading correctly. I'm not the same person you were talking to before. I'm not making a quip either, I legitimately find your attitude of wanting to keep lenses locked behind an additional planet and quest after you gain access to the focus system running counter to your idea that leveling single focus is a waste of  time. Why would you want people to waste their time by being unable to access more lenses?

Anyway let's try a different angle. If after you completed the war within how would you feel if you couldn't get kuva until you completed another planet, junction, and quest? A quest that has nothing to do with the kuva mechanic that was just introduced. A quest that requires higher level gear and grinding to prep for before even taking the time to complete the actual quest. 

[Shockwave-]

" counter to your idea that leveling single focus is a waste of  time.

3 hours ago, Drasiel said:

ounter to your idea that leveling single focus is a waste of  time.

I have no such idea when a person has only one lens. Again (slowly this time since you are repeating this after I've already said this was not the case) it's only inefficient to put additional lenses of the same school on equipment when you have lenses of different schools. It is the act of over'-lensing your gear that is inefficient because when you finish the school you can't remove the lens but have to replace it (or not use it all) otherwise you continue to gain focus beyond what is currently useful in that school. This has ZERO bearing on using a single lens only as you will always have to have at least one lens in the school, ergo, a single lens is never a waste as you would always have needed it and always have had to replace it if you ever completed the focus tree for it.

3 hours ago, Drasiel said:

Anyway let's try a different angle. If after you completed the war within how would you feel if you couldn't get kuva until you completed another planet, junction, and quest? A quest that has nothing to do with the kuva mechanic that was just introduced. A quest that requires higher level gear and grinding to prep for before even taking the time to complete the actual quest. 

Why would I care? If that si the game progression that is the game progression? You somehow think that this is harming the player when the reverse might be true. You are starting from the assumption that Kuva SHOULD be available to the player at the exact same time as the sorties to get Riven mods. Perhaps it is the opposite, The abiltiy to stack up some rivens is being given to the player in ADVANCE of the ability the level them. In your example if the devs hard released rivens to only people who had access to that later junction originally then a few months later moved it back os you could get rivens in advance, you would see it as a bonus, but if they release it that way (the exact same situation) you see it as a hindrance. If the game is allowing content at X time and you are getting some things early (like that single lens to give you a start) but still have to clear some hurdles to get access to better gear (more lenses) that is not at all unusual in a game.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Shockwave-

[Drasiel]

On 27/01/2017 at 11:17 PM, Shockwave- said:

" counter to your idea that leveling single focus is a waste of  time.

I have no such idea when a person has only one lens. Again (slowly this time since you are repeating this after I've already said this was not the case) it's only inefficient to put additional lenses of the same school on equipment when you have lenses of different schools. It is the act of over'-lensing your gear that is inefficient because when you finish the school you can't remove the lens but have to replace it (or not use it all) otherwise you continue to gain focus beyond what is currently useful in that school. This has ZERO bearing on using a single lens only as you will always have to have at least one lens in the school, ergo, a single lens is never a waste as you would always have needed it and always have had to replace it if you ever completed the focus tree for it.

Why would I care? If that si the game progression that is the game progression? You somehow think that this is harming the player when the reverse might be true. You are starting from the assumption that Kuva SHOULD be available to the player at the exact same time as the sorties to get Riven mods. Perhaps it is the opposite, The abiltiy to stack up some rivens is being given to the player in ADVANCE of the ability the level them. In your example if the devs hard released rivens to only people who had access to that later junction originally then a few months later moved it back os you could get rivens in advance, you would see it as a bonus, but if they release it that way (the exact same situation) you see it as a hindrance. If the game is allowing content at X time and you are getting some things early (like that single lens to give you a start) but still have to clear some hurdles to get access to better gear (more lenses) that is not at all unusual in a game.

You never actually stated that players with only one lense were outside the boundaries of your multi lense preference until now. Okay so good, we have better clarity on what you actually intended with statements. Moving on. 

Clearly we have different fundamental ideas concerning progression. I feel that moving lense acquisition behind tww is a major janky unnecessary time gate for a system you just unlocked and may want to experiment with. I also don't like how if you pick a focus tree that you do not like(which you can't see them until after you pick your first lense) you are stuck and cannot change without cash until you do finish tww. I view this as leading the focus system to be more ignored by newer players because they cannot experiment and modify choices until sorties. It's easy to forget a system you didn't really get to use. 

You seem to feel that the progression is fine. That mechanic blocking wait times are okay and that lenses couldn't be replaced by something else equally "bad" in sorties.

[----_Hayden_Tenno_----]

can only repeat myself..... we need a token system for sorties....

getting forma, potatoes or lenses is an insult to veterans.... and the worst thing is the greater lens, u cant even trade it....

[Shockwave-]

23 hours ago, Drasiel said:

You seem to feel that the progression is fine. That mechanic blocking wait times are okay and that lenses couldn't be replaced by something else equally "bad" in sorties.

I do feel the progression is fine.

Mechanic blocking wait times also include the sorite (at 1 a day), moving the lenses to a non wait timed mission would mean a FLOOD of lenses (whcih DE sells). There is no reason to believe that DE would let the lenses out of a time gated mission, so if not sorties then a new time gated mission would be introduced. No thank you, Daily missions (rather than weekly) are already bad. Given the choice between a new time gated mission for lenses and simply having them in the sortie the sorite is adequate. There is nothing that terrible about them being there.

They can be replaced by other rewards but even 2K endo is being complained about so much it's ridiculous.  My original replies were about this thread and the people commenting that they should be removed because they are bad rewards. Recall you jumped into the middle of another discussion that had little to do with locking them behind TWW and more to do with claiming they were such bad rewards that they didn't belong in sorties.

I'm not DE and I don't decide the reward tables, but I see nothing so egregious about lenses in sorties that would require a community uproar. I'm not against hem being somewhere else (other than new time gated missions) but I understand and am fine with DE's choice to place them in sorties. So yes, when I see someone saying that they clearly don't belong there, I will argue against that.

 

Edited January 30, 2017 by Shockwave-