Loki Decoy overly effective for 25 energy

[Witchydragon]

Loki's decoy in Conclave with weapons such has the Boltor Prime/Castanas is too effective for it's 25 energy cost. 

It's capable of nearly 100% accuracy with a fast projectile weapon.

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It begins shooting as soon as it it spawned after the short cast time.

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It does a huge amount of damage with very little input from the player.

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And it can be cast multiple times within a short period, potentially one right after another in the same engagement.

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The decoy encourages tactical usage of map space, placing it in the open will get you nowhere, but placing it behind players, in chokepoints, and setting up crossfires with it creates much more interesting gameplay. However, it's tactical usage is subverted by it's potential for spam, being a 25 energy ability with no cooldown. It would be much better to encourage smart decoy usage by reducing it's availability.

The energy cost should be increased to 75 energy, however to compensate it should also have as much hp as the caster (has at the time of casting), and weapon effectiveness should be normalized. Projectile weapons should remain about as strong as they are now, while hitscan weapons should have their accuracy increased so that players aren't forced into certain weapons to utilize Decoy with any effectiveness. Decoy should also show the name of the caster instead of the reading as a Level 1 enemy, so really clever users of decoy can force the enemy player to guess which is the real them.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Witchydragon

[-N7-Leonhart]

Woah, so the Decoy actually does damage? Yep, the cost should either be increased or the damage capabilities be removed. It's a decoy, after all, not a turret.

Edited February 11, 2017 by -BM-Leonhart

[Azrael]

23 minutes ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Woah, so the Decoy actually does damage? Yep, the cost should either be increased or the damage capabilities be removed. It's a decoy, after all, not a turret.

Not only does it do damage, but I believe with an augment it can tank up the player by absorbing some of the damage he takes.

[Heckzu]

16 minutes ago, Azrael said:

Not only does it do damage, but I believe with an augment it can tank up the player by absorbing some of the damage he takes.

The Decoy augment is a double edged sword, as the player also takes damage when the decoy takes damage.

[Azrael]

4 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

The Decoy augment is a double edged sword, as the player also takes damage when the decoy takes damage.

Yes, but with competent play it can increase the amount of health available to the casting player. For that matter, just casting it and standing next to it will increase the player's effective health as well as damage and accuracy. That's pretty good for 25 energy.

[Pythadragon]

4 hours ago, Azrael said:

Yes, but with competent play it can increase the amount of health available to the casting player. For that matter, just casting it and standing next to it will increase the player's effective health as well as damage and accuracy. That's pretty good for 25 energy.

It has a max range of 15 meters(? been awhile since I've tested this) and while you can dodge, your decoy doesn't move. It turns a 'cast and forget' ability into a situational ability with questionable benefit that also hurts you if not cast in the correct situations.

While it's an interesting idea, the augment is just not used.

5 hours ago, Witchydragon said:

Loki's decoy in Conclave with weapons such has the Boltor Prime/Castanas is too effective for it's 25 energy cost. 

Decoy was changed to only use your primary weapon. Castanas fireworks show for 25 energy is no longer a thing :)

5 hours ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

Woah, so the Decoy actually does damage? Yep, the cost should either be increased or the damage capabilities be removed. It's a decoy, after all, not a turret.

No player in Conclave will ever mistake a stationary decoy for a real player unless that player is also standing still, which is a death sentence already.

Decoy is Loki's one offensive ability in Conclave and is designed to be a turret.

Edited February 11, 2017 by Pythadragon

[(XBOX)Tylers Legend]

The decoy is made out of glass.

I think it's wasteful energy in my eyes, I kill it as soon as it is cast usually.

Placing Loki behind people I don't think is very effective on most decent conclave players. The sound on a cast is very noticeable, there is so much I can do to remove him from play on cast. Sure he can be a good finisher, but most Warframe 1s can do that.

The players in your clip are mostly walking while shooting too or are not using much mobility.

When a player like you is utilizing movement, Lokis decoy effectiveness drops significantly.

The best use Imo with Loki is hiding him in a spot unnoticeable with a great ranged weapon with his augment equipped. For damage and survivability for the caster.

 

I like the adding of the name to the decoy, making it more challenging to fight the decoy.

 

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, Pythadragon said:

While it's an interesting idea, the augment is just not used.

Really? That's interesting, I thought it would be. Well, ignore me then!

[SevenLetterKWord]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)Tylers Legend said:

The decoy is made out of glass.

Really?
What kind of glass did you invent that can tank two sniper shots?

7 hours ago, Witchydragon said:

Decoy should also show the name of the caster instead of the reading as a Level 1 enemy, so really clever users of decoy can force the enemy player to guess which is the real them.

Decoy in Annihilation also uses a yellow health bar, while actual players use traditional red health bars.
This could stand to be changed.

[(XBOX)Tylers Legend]

11 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

Really?
What kind of glass did you invent that can tank two sniper shots?

 

You're right. Glass is much more of a tank than Loki decoy than I previously thought.

[Loxyen]

Why raise the cost to 75 when you can decrease the dmg. Making it consume 75 energy would have a heavy impact. For example the 'place decoy and switch teleport' combo wouldn't be viable anymore unless you have 100 energy.

[Witchydragon]

4 hours ago, Loxyen said:

Why raise the cost to 75 when you can decrease the dmg. Making it consume 75 energy would have a heavy impact. For example the 'place decoy and switch teleport' combo wouldn't be viable anymore unless you have 100 energy.

That combo is not even viable when you have 50 energy.

 

[Loxyen]

4 hours ago, Witchydragon said:

That combo is not even viable when you have 50 energy.

It is. On those maps where fall off is a thing. Just place the decoy in a nearby save spot and switch teleport if you risk to fall off for sure. That gives you more efficient room for combat.

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

I hated Loki in conclave before he was nerfed 

his radial disarm was op because it caused knockdown, could take an enemy down to like 40 health, and removed the players weapon

his invisible lasted insanely long and he remained invisible after taking a hit from A jatkittag unchanneled before nerf and still remain invisible and still remain invisible when shooting 

decoy was broken if you used castanas or any other similar pistol it also did the full amount of damage if I'm not mistaken 

overall loki is already balanced in my opinion and any more nerfs will just make him unusable compared to frames with the same mobility and speed. 

[Witchydragon]

16 hours ago, (PS4)Xx-Ribbium-xX said:

overall loki is already balanced in my opinion and any more nerfs will just make him unusable compared to frames with the same mobility and speed. 

His hp could always be buffed to be on par with the other light frames if it's needed once his decoy is nerfed. 

Decoy stands out too much as an ability, doing too much damage without requiring consistent input from the player while being extremely spammable. Having a power that's so powerful and common, but only if the user equips certain weapons, will detract from frame diversity and create frustrating gameplay. 

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

On 2/11/2017 at 1:18 PM, Witchydragon said:

Loki's decoy in Conclave with weapons such has the Boltor Prime/Castanas is too effective for it's 25 energy cost. 

It's capable of nearly 100% accuracy with a fast projectile weapon.

  Hide contents

 

It begins shooting as soon as it it spawned after the short cast time.

  Hide contents

 

It does a huge amount of damage with very little input from the player.

  Hide contents

 

And it can be cast multiple times within a short period, potentially one right after another in the same engagement.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

The decoy encourages tactical usage of map space, placing it in the open will get you nowhere, but placing it behind players, in chokepoints, and setting up crossfires with it creates much more interesting gameplay. However, it's tactical usage is subverted by it's potential for spam, being a 25 energy ability with no cooldown. It would be much better to encourage smart decoy usage by reducing it's availability.

The energy cost should be increased to 75 energy, however to compensate it should also have as much hp as the caster (has at the time of casting), and weapon effectiveness should be normalized. Projectile weapons should remain about as strong as they are now, while hitscan weapons should have their accuracy increased so that players aren't forced into certain weapons to utilize Decoy with any effectiveness. Decoy should also show the name of the caster instead of the reading as a Level 1 enemy, so really clever users of decoy can force the enemy player to guess which is the real them.

I can get behind that. It does tend to force me to fall back a bit just because of its output and adds a new aspect to the game but most people I've seen can't deal with something like that especially if someone doesn't know how to deal with it.