Cutting the middle man: Resources going straight to player's inventory

[AlphaSierraMike]

Instead of asking for vacuum to be on everything, let's imagine why people need vacuum in the first place.

The thing is that vacuum at the moment serves two different areas in the game, outside of gameplay and within gameplay, that being resource and field drops respectively.

Looking at its purpose within gameplay as an overall loadout build, picking up energy and health orbs, and ammo, there are alternatives that a player can choose instead of using vacuum. Things like:

Running an ammo efficient weapon or melee weapon.

Having a Trinity at hand, or equipping Rage.

Getting health back without using orbs, such as Life Strike, syndicate effects, Medi-Ray on sentinels, Rejuvenation, or just ignoring health altogether and use Quick Thinking. Heck health orb barely drops within normal gameplay anyway.

Using restores for all three.

Using abilities that can prolong ammo usage, ie. damage boost, or regen health.

The only item within gameplay that vacuum is arguably necessary is life supports.

Outside of survival, we can conclude that within gameplay, vacuum is not a necessity and can have alternatives. Effectively, it provides the player with damage and CC in a roundabout way.

Then that means the necessity stems from the part outside of gameplay. The looting. The resources and credits. Things that do not affect the gameplay at all, but still asks the player for a moment of their time. It's like doing a 100m sprint while picking up coins along the way because we need lunch money. It kills the pacing when we have to precisely run over them to pick them up. That's why people use vacuum, because the only alternative to using vacuum in the context of outside of gameplay is to use Mag and Greedy Pull.

Why not just cut the middle man out, and put them straight into the player's inventory? Things like resources, mods, Endo, credit, those don't do anything and aren't necessary within gameplay. Naturally this excludes things that aren't affected by vacuum to begin with, like medallions and Ayatan Sculptures.

That way, Vacuum can be considered a utility mod within the context of gameplay, and other companions and their abilities can be balanced accordingly to be made viable as an option. For example, the kubrows and kavats can be more aggressive in general to make up for the damage and CC that vacuum can provide. The kubrow/kavat can deal more damage by itself as well as draw the enemy's attention to increase the player's survivability as they run around, and not being right next to the player.

[artemisfortune]

No. Absolutely not.

Have you ever played Cookie Clicker or Anti Idle? If you make this change, you make it the meta to sit in a survival in a hallway with an AOE with a macro for hours. You make it a cookie clicker, I mean it's already bad enough with Vacuum and hallways, but doing this cuts out on the game. It'd be like if all gold or potions or loot from Diablo 2 immediately went in your inventory, or if in Dark Souls you got every weapon and armor as soon as you unlocked the door.

It's promoting laziness for the sake of laziness.

[Jiminez_Burial]

20 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

No. Absolutely not.

Have you ever played Cookie Clicker or Anti Idle? If you make this change, you make it the meta to sit in a survival in a hallway with an AOE with a macro for hours. You make it a cookie clicker, I mean it's already bad enough with Vacuum and hallways, but doing this cuts out on the game. It'd be like if all gold or potions or loot from Diablo 2 immediately went in your inventory, or if in Dark Souls you got every weapon and armor as soon as you unlocked the door.

It's promoting laziness for the sake of laziness.

It could just be implemented so that when you enter a tile, all the loot in that room is automatically given to you.  This way it would not be possible to afk in a single tile to loot and anything that dropped a few rooms away would still need to be collected.  At the end of the day, the OP makes a good point in terms of the functions that Vacuum currently serves because the gameplay experience for anyone who isn't using it is hindered due to them needing to run onto an item (and possible sit there a few seconds if the host is laggy) in order to collect it.  I don't think anyone would be realistically arguing for an entire map wide auto loot, but we shouldn't have to micro manage our movement in order to collect items we (hopefully and should have) earned by helping the squad.

[ArchPhaeton]

33 minutes ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

-snip-

Outside of survival, we can conclude that within gameplay, vacuum is not a necessity and can have alternatives. -snip-

I disagree with this. Vacuum sucking health and energy items make a huge difference, at least for me, the game pace is much more fluid due to not needing to directly walk towards the orbs - It becomes pretty evident when I swap my sentinels for a kubrow or kavat, I find myself wasting time walking towards pickups, both loot and orbs. Of course there are alternatives but with vacuum pulling them I rarely have need to waste pads/summon a trin/get damaged to get a bit of energy with rage/whatever alternatives there are. Orbs are a pretty basic mechanic to keep you going, so no, it's not just a survival convenience.

Also agreed with @JSharpie, something like this would just promote macro'ers/afk'ers

[Darkvramp]

2 minutes ago, Starfreak911 said:

It could just be implemented so that when you enter a tile, all the loot in that room is automatically given to you.  This way it would not be possible to afk in a single tile to loot and anything that dropped a few rooms away would still need to be collected.  At the end of the day, the OP makes a good point in terms of the functions that Vacuum currently serves because the gameplay experience for anyone who isn't using it is hindered due to them needing to run onto an item (and possible sit there a few seconds if the host is laggy) in order to collect it.  I don't think anyone would be realistically arguing for an entire map wide auto loot, but we shouldn't have to micro manage our movement in order to collect items we (hopefully and should have) earned by helping the squad.

Or you can have it so that the enemies spawn in a system of waves in different rooms forcing you to move to meet the enemies because the AI wants to defend against you in a room and not random spawns that happen outside of your vision like they do now. But the games AI would actually have to get smarter then, and they have told us time and time again that's not what they want sooooooooooo, no. Instead give sentinels more support rolls and survivability instead of damage rolls while the kubrows are there as damage support, and give all the warframes innate 12 meter vacuum passive. All the problems are fixed like that.

[NightBlitz]

this is part of the reason why im completely against even the ideas of a full 12m innate vacuum, i know that if that happened, this idea would be the next thing people would ask for over and over. and this would be unhealthy for the game. 12m innate vacuum would ruin the game, full auto collection would turn it to dust

 

[TrickshotMcGee]

21 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

No. Absolutely not.

Have you ever played Cookie Clicker or Anti Idle? If you make this change, you make it the meta to sit in a survival in a hallway with an AOE with a macro for hours. You make it a cookie clicker, I mean it's already bad enough with Vacuum and hallways, but doing this cuts out on the game. It'd be like if all gold or potions or loot from Diablo 2 immediately went in your inventory, or if in Dark Souls you got every weapon and armor as soon as you unlocked the door.

It's promoting laziness for the sake of laziness.

You can't really compare Warframe to either of those games.

Diablo has almost no need for gold, if we're being honest. So you can go through the game with only gold from completing objectives. Upgraded gems help of course, but are by no means a necessity. In Warframe, it's the exact opposite - if you don't grab nearly everything you're screwing yourself out of something else, because credits and materials are always necessary.

Yes, Dark Souls has a lot of running around and collecting, but it also has reasonable and predictable enemy spawns and no random hordes, unlike Warframe which has unpredictable and ridiculous spawning, and is based on hordes. Once you move through an area in Dark Souls, you never actually have to do it again until you die. Warframe, on the other hand, can have you run through the same room/hall/tile 3 times and still pick up new things in a single mission.

 

What's more is that restrictions can be put on what is and isn't always picked up. Things like Life Support and energy/health could become pickup-only where credits and other essentials could automatically be collected. And with the removal of vacuum, those pickups would actually make you pick them up, while cutting out the ridiculous zig-zags you have to do for regular loot. Still forces people to move, while also alleviating the spastic running around that normal, vacuum-less farming does.

 

Also, I'd like to point out that in the Bloodbourne/Dank Souls games, the currency - Blood Echoes/Souls - are automatically picked up. The means to get/make/upgrade weapons and gear is automatically given to you when you kill something, while things like health vials and unique things are things you have to pick up, and that's what we're asking for. Currency and necessary farming stuff to be automatic, while other things like health, energy, and Life Support become something you have to go for yourself. 

[artemisfortune]

21 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

You can't really compare Warframe to either of those games.

Diablo has almost no need for gold, if we're being honest. So you can go through the game with only gold from completing objectives. Upgraded gems help of course, but are by no means a necessity. In Warframe, it's the exact opposite - if you don't grab nearly everything you're screwing yourself out of something else, because credits and materials are always necessary.

Yes, Dark Souls has a lot of running around and collecting, but it also has reasonable and predictable enemy spawns and no random hordes, unlike Warframe which has unpredictable and ridiculous spawning, and is based on hordes. Once you move through an area in Dark Souls, you never actually have to do it again until you die. Warframe, on the other hand, can have you run through the same room/hall/tile 3 times and still pick up new things in a single mission.

 

What's more is that restrictions can be put on what is and isn't always picked up. Things like Life Support and energy/health could become pickup-only where credits and other essentials could automatically be collected. And with the removal of vacuum, those pickups would actually make you pick them up, while cutting out the ridiculous zig-zags you have to do for regular loot. Still forces people to move, while also alleviating the spastic running around that normal, vacuum-less farming does.

 

Also, I'd like to point out that in the Bloodbourne/Dank Souls games, the currency - Blood Echoes/Souls - are automatically picked up. The means to get/make/upgrade weapons and gear is automatically given to you when you kill something, while things like health vials and unique things are things you have to pick up, and that's what we're asking for. Currency and necessary farming stuff to be automatic, while other things like health, energy, and Life Support become something you have to go for yourself. 

Legend of Zelda: Hyrule Warriors has you grab everything as well. That's the definition of a horde game, and it works quite well.

If you're finding loot intrusive to the game to grab, it's because you're sitting in a corner. Requiring the player to grab loot involves them more.

Edited February 15, 2017 by JSharpie
typo

[TrickshotMcGee]

Just now, JSharpie said:

Legend of Zelda: Hyrule Heroes has you grab everything as well. That's the definition of a horde game, and it works quite well.

If you're finding loot intrusive to the game to grab, it's because you're sitting in a corner. Requiring the player to grab loot involves them more.

Zelda also doesn't have you using ranged weapons much of the time. You can use the Bow/Boomerang/Slingshot, but you run out of ammo quickly and there are a number of enemies that simply don't die to those. 

Also, Zelda is hardly a mob-based game. There's never more than 5-7 enemies in the same room, and sometimes enemies simply don't drop anything. 

 

And loot isn't only intrusive if you're sitting in a corner. It's just as frustrating if you play with ranged weapons more because of how enemies run around, even sometimes causing you to backtrack for a single one. And in larger tiles like on Hieracon, it's easy to hit enemies at range, then you have to go 30+ meters to grab whatever they dropped and then run back to the other side for whatever kills your team got. Hell, sitting in a corner REDUCES the amount of running because it all piles pretty much right in front of you and with the innate 3m pickup range, that's easily done. 

But Warframe is a game of guns, and having enemies drop loot at the range your guns can kill them is simply inconvenient and irritating. 

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Zelda also doesn't have you using ranged weapons much of the time. You can use the Bow/Boomerang/Slingshot, but you run out of ammo quickly and there are a number of enemies that simply don't die to those. 

Also, Zelda is hardly a mob-based game. There's never more than 5-7 enemies in the same room, and sometimes enemies simply don't drop anything. 

 

And loot isn't only intrusive if you're sitting in a corner. It's just as frustrating if you play with ranged weapons more because of how enemies run around, even sometimes causing you to backtrack for a single one. And in larger tiles like on Hieracon, it's easy to hit enemies at range, then you have to go 30+ meters to grab whatever they dropped and then run back to the other side for whatever kills your team got. Hell, sitting in a corner REDUCES the amount of running because it all piles pretty much right in front of you and with the innate 3m pickup range, that's easily done. 

But Warframe is a game of guns, and having enemies drop loot at the range your guns can kill them is simply inconvenient and irritating. 

I guess you just didn't know about this game.

Also, you're shooting enemies that are in your way, you'll run passed their bodies I'm sure, I mean hell I do it all the time.

[TrickshotMcGee]

7 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

I guess you just didn't know about this game.

So 1 of like 25 Zelda games is a horde game and you generalize all of Zelda as horde-based.

Also, Rupees are automatically picked up in that game AND they're not necessary to get like credits and materials are.

7 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Also, you're shooting enemies that are in your way, you'll run passed their bodies I'm sure, I mean hell I do it all the time.

In some gamemodes, yes. Things like Exterminate, of course. But you set foot into a decent-level Excavation and you've got a 360 degree cone of death, all of which you have to cover and loot, same with several Defense maps. Same deal with Survival - if you run around and don't camp, things die all around you and you have to go where each one dies to collect loot. 

 

_{But yes, I did forget the Hyrule Warriors existed. It's very different from every other Zelda game.} 

[artemisfortune]

Just now, TrickshotMcGee said:

So 1 of like 25 Zelda games is a horde game and you generalize all of Zelda as horde-based.

Also, Rupees are automatically picked up in that game AND they're not necessary to get like credits and materials are.

In some gamemodes, yes. Things like Exterminate, of course. But you set foot into a decent-level Excavation and you've got a 360 degree cone of death, all of which you have to cover and loot, same with several Defense maps. Same deal with Survival - if you run around and don't camp, things die all around you and you have to go where each one dies to collect loot. 

 

_{But yes, I did forget the Hyrule Warriors existed. It's very different from every other Zelda game.} 

I put "The Legend of Zelda: Hyrule Warriors" in my original post.

Ruppees are not automatically picked up, you have to walk near them like this one game I play called Warframe, where all frames have a 6m pick up range that can be boosted by using sentinels.

You don't need every piece of loot, and if taking 2 seconds longer to get it all is really a problem, then that's fine.

AND, ruppees in that game are necessary. You use them to boost your characters levels.

[AlphaSierraMike]

18 minutes ago, ArchPhaeton said:

I disagree with this. Vacuum sucking health and energy items make a huge difference, at least for me, the game pace is much more fluid due to not needing to directly walk towards the orbs - It becomes pretty evident when I swap my sentinels for a kubrow or kavat, I find myself wasting time walking towards pickups, both loot and orbs. Of course there are alternatives but with vacuum pulling them I rarely have need to waste pads/summon a trin/get damaged to get a bit of energy with rage/whatever alternatives there are. Orbs are a pretty basic mechanic to keep you going, so no, it's not just a survival convenience.

Also agreed with @JSharpie, something like this would just promote macro'ers/afk'ers

I did say there are alternatives to using vacuum, that means some, but not all builds can do without vacuum. For high ammo consumption, frequent casting builds, sure use vacuum, nobody's stopping you. But for builds that require none of the drops, it's a nice option not to have to run vacuum just for the resource collection. For example, Valkyr/Inaros/Nidus melee only with Rage against Infested. Energy just comes naturally, health is restored through life strike, and it doesn't use any ammo. I would run a Kavat if not for collecting Mutagen samples.

You make it sound like macros and afkers are just part of the game and we should accept it. Wouldn't it make more sense to prevent them in the first place? I mean even now it's a problem.

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Also, you're shooting enemies that are in your way, you'll run passed their bodies I'm sure, I mean hell I do it all the time.

Not everyone runs at the enemy. How can you be so sure? What about shooting while you're backing off? What makes it certain that the enemy will run into you and not follow behind? Or die behind you?

I mean there are plenty of modes running at the enemy is not part of the objective, MD: you're suppose to stand close to the point and defend, not rush. Defense: the same thing. Intercept: the only objective is to stop them from capping.

With respect, not everyone uses the Synoid Simulor.

[Darkvramp]

34 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

this is part of the reason why im completely against even the ideas of a full 12m innate vacuum, i know that if that happened, this idea would be the next thing people would ask for over and over. and this would be unhealthy for the game. 12m innate vacuum would ruin the game, full auto collection would turn it to dust

 

If it doesn't ruin the game when its on the sentinels it will not ruin the game if they make it a passive on warframes, I don't know where the hell you got that idea.

[artemisfortune]

2 minutes ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

Not everyone runs at the enemy. How can you be so sure? What about shooting while you're backing off? What makes it certain that the enemy will run into you and not follow behind? Or die behind you?

I mean there are plenty of modes running at the enemy is not part of the objective, MD: you're suppose to stand close to the point and defend, not rush. Defense: the same thing. Intercept: the only objective is to stop them from capping.

With respect, not everyone uses the Synoid Simulor.

Not what I said at all. I said you would be running over their bodies eventually, meaning you would be grabbing loot. If you can't be bothered to pick it up after the objective is completed, that's on you. It takes 10 seconds. If that really bothers you, go play another game.

Giving innate pickup would be a mistake.

[NightBlitz]

6 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

So 1 of like 25 Zelda games is a horde game and you generalize all of Zelda as horde-based.

Also, Rupees are automatically picked up in that game AND they're not necessary to get like credits and materials are.

In some gamemodes, yes. Things like Exterminate, of course. But you set foot into a decent-level Excavation and you've got a 360 degree cone of death, all of which you have to cover and loot, same with several Defense maps. Same deal with Survival - if you run around and don't camp, things die all around you and you have to go where each one dies to collect loot. 

 

_{But yes, I did forget the Hyrule Warriors existed. It's very different from every other Zelda game.} 

its not part of the actual timeline after all, but anyways....

auto looting is just a bad idea, it invites laziness, and if you do something like this for one thing, people are going to want more stuff to make the game even easier

if i were to concede to this at all, it'd be for archwing only, cus that one is the only one where getting the loot is ever an actual problem, in normal missions, so what if you miss those 100 alloy plates, these days most resources are overly abundant anyways

Just now, Darkvramp said:

If it doesn't ruin the game when its on the sentinels it will not ruin the game if they make it a passive on warframes, I don't know where the hell you got that idea.

sure, because having it take up a mod slot, some capacity, and only active while the sentinel is alive, is the same as a full 12m innate vacuum on a frame that takes up o space, capacity, and will always remain active. as if. if it is, then i must have purple skin and come from outer space or something, cus it isnt

Edited February 15, 2017 by NightBlitz

[TrickshotMcGee]

1 minute ago, JSharpie said:

I put "The Legend of Zelda: Hyrule Warriors" in my original post.

Seems you did. Apologies. 

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Ruppees are not automatically picked up, you have to walk near them like this one game I play called Warframe, where all frames have a 6m pick up range that can be boosted by

From the vid you provided, they seemed like they automatically picked up. Never played the game, so that's really all I had to base it off of. In any case, the range at which a sword kills them is much lower than the range at which a gun will. Link could literally run in a 2-meter circle where he killed enemies and nab most, if not all the rupees. Warframe is much larger scale than that game is. 

Also, Warframes have a 3-meter pickup range, not 6.

4 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

You don't need every piece of loot, and if taking 2 seconds longer to get it all is really a problem, then that's fine.

You don't need every piece of loot *after a certain point in the game. As a newbie, you had to run over every corpse and every container, and it sucked. Just like it sucks now, except now there's a lot more running around because there's more killing.

And if you kill every enemy within 5 meters of you, GG. You've no need for Vacuum in the first place. But not everyone does that. Guns have a range of more than a few meters, and I use them to kill much further than 2 seconds from where I'm standing because I can and it's fun. 

[AlphaSierraMike]

Just now, JSharpie said:

Not what I said at all. I said you would be running over their bodies eventually, meaning you would be grabbing loot. If you can't be bothered to pick it up after the objective is completed, that's on you. It takes 10 seconds. If that really bothers you, go play another game.

Giving innate pickup would be a mistake.

"Also, you're shooting enemies that are in your way, you'll run passed their bodies I'm sure, I mean hell I do it all the time." Surely that implies running into enemies and picking up loot at the same time.

There's no certainty that every drop would be even on the same tile if you consider how many people run off on their own chasing spawns. Are you saying you can find those loot as well and collect them within 10 second?

[Darkvramp]

6 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

sure, because having it take up a mod slot, some capacity, and only active while the sentinel is alive, is the same as a full 12m innate vacuum on a frame that takes up o space, capacity, and will always remain active. as if. if it is, then i must have purple skin and come from outer space or something, cus it isnt

Ok ask yourself this, what actual effect does giving warframes innate 12(or 11.5 meter) pickup range? What does it add to the sentinal?

Its basically a mandatory mod on sentinels, removing from sentinels allows more choice in mods on them, and reduces the tedium of zig zaging around the room to grab stuff off the ground. As a veteran its one of my biggest gripes in game. The game is about being fast and powerful, not playing like a literal vacuum going back and forth across the ground to pick everything up. Everyone hates it when being forced to do a chore and this game without sentinel vacuum feels like one when the target or goal of your playtime is to collect different forms of currency

[TrickshotMcGee]

25 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

auto looting is just a bad idea, it invites laziness, and if you do something like this for one thing, people are going to want more stuff to make the game even easier

if i were to concede to this at all, it'd be for archwing only, cus that one is the only one where getting the loot is ever an actual problem, in normal missions, so what if you miss those 100 alloy plates, these days most resources are overly abundant anyways

It's a bad idea, except in games where it works. Dark Souls is my case and point because I've seen the 2 compared a lot. Souls are automatically collected, and that's really all you need to complete the game. You can get stronger with that, grabbing gear, upgrading weapons, and leveling your character. The other stuff is utility, like firebombs or unique items. Things you don't have to collect (but make your life a lot better). Like health and energy orbs.

Souls are like resources/credits. Without them, you cannot progress unless you're a masochist (but in most cases, it does stop all progression). If you had to go collect every soul that spilled out of enemies, that would suck something fierce and everyone knows it. 

 

I don't expect everything that drops to be automatically picked up. Only the things that are necessary for progression in the game. Stuff like Life Support, health, and energy can remain their static pickups. And if vacuum were removed, we'd collect those necessary items, but still have to personally go after energy, health, and that ilk. 

Besides, with Vacuum the way it is, all you have to do is camp one small area and run in circles every couple minutes and you get everything that just fell at your feet anyways. With this change, it would force you to leave the nook and run around to stay alive (especially as frames who do ability spams to farm), except the difference is that individual credits and resources aren't littered about. 

Edited February 15, 2017 by TrickshotMcGee

[NightBlitz]

Just now, Darkvramp said:

Ok ask yourself this, what actual effect does giving warframes innate 12(or 11.5 meter) pickup range? What does it add to the sentinal?

Its basically a mandatory mod on sentinels, removing from sentinels allows more choice in mods on them, and reduces the tedium of zig zaging around the room to grab stuff off the ground. As a veteran its one of my biggest gripes in game. The game is about being fast and powerful, not playing like a literal vacuum going back and forth across the ground to pick everything up. Everyone hates it when being forced to do a chore and this game without sentinel vacuum feels like one when the target or goal of your playtime is to collect different forms of currency

first of all, dont generalize using terms like "everyone", it doesnt make your point any stronger.

secondly, you dont seem to have an idea of balance. vacuum isn't necessary, thus its something extra and requires a cost. remember back when vacuum was briefly made into a sentinel passive but had a 6m range? thats cus of balancing, they decided that if it was going to be the full 12m, it had to have a cost greater than simply having a sentinel with you. you don't have to understand this, but you do  have to accept it, regardless of what you might say or think.

9 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

It's a bad idea, except in games where it works. Dark Souls is my case and point because I've seen the 2 compared a lot. Souls are automatically collected, and that's really all you need to complete the game. You can get stronger with that, grabbing gear, upgrading weapons, and leveling your character. The other stuff is utility, like firebombs or unique items. Things you don't have to collect (but make your life a lot better). Like health and energy orbs.

Souls are like resources/credits. Without them, you cannot progress unless you're a masochist (but in most cases, it does stop all progression). If you had to go collect every soul that spilled out of enemies, that would suck something fierce and everyone knows it. 

 

I don't expect everything that drops to be automatically picked up. Only the things that are necessary for progression in the game. Stuff like Life Support, health, and energy can remain their static pickups. And if vacuum were removed, we'd collect those necessary items, but still have to personally go after energy, health, and that ilk. 

Besides, with Vacuum the way it is, all you have to do is camp one small area and run in circles every couple minutes and you get everything that just fell at your feet anyways. With this change, it would force you to leave the nook and run around to stay alive (especially as frames who do ability spams to farm), except the difference that that individual credits and resources aren't littered about. 

yea.... im not sure how it is in dark souls, but in most games souls tend to be less, well, physical, and more like an energy mass of some kind. credits and resources are definitely physical tho, so im not seeing a good correlation here

 

 

besides, its not like missing that one stack of salvage is going to kill you. theres a difference between efficiency and just plain laziness, and this heads into the laziness territory by several miles

[AlphaSierraMike]

4 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

Besides, its not like missing that one stack of salvage is going to kill you. theres a difference between efficiency and just plain laziness, and this heads into the laziness territory by several miles

Of course common drops aren't going to be a bother. But consider drops like Argon, Neurodes, Mutagen Samples (for now), Ash parts, Oberon parts, Capacitors. There's plenty of drops where every piece counts, that someone can screw it up for the rest of the squad because they ran off by themselves.

[artemisfortune]

Just now, AlphaSierraMike said:

Of course common drops aren't going to be a bother. But consider drops like Argon, Neurodes, Mutagen Samples (for now), Ash parts, Oberon parts, Capacitors. There's plenty of drops where every piece counts, that someone can screw it up for the rest of the squad because they ran off by themselves.

Then play alone.

There is no argument I've seen that has swayed me on my stance on this, and all of them are rooted in "but I need all the loot and I don't want to pick it up."

[TrickshotMcGee]

Just now, NightBlitz said:

yea.... im not sure how it is in dark souls, but in most games souls tend to be less, well, physical, and more like an energy mass of some kind. credits and resources are definitely physical tho, so im not seeing a good correlation here

It's not about the item itself, but more about what the item does. In Dark Souls, those Souls are a currency (they don't have a physical form, they transfer from enemies to the player upon killing them) - they are the equivalent to our credits and materials. They are used to buy/upgrade things and level the character, and they are automatically picked up when you kill things. Other stuff, like tools and miscellaneous equipment can be found on the ground. Things you don't need, but make combat easier, similar to how energy orbs are to us.

3 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

besides, its not like missing that one stack of salvage is going to kill you. theres a difference between efficiency and just plain laziness, and this heads into the laziness territory by several miles

It's not about missing 1 stack of some random material. Go do a Hieracon run with a full squad and don't bring a Sentinel or go out of your way to run over corpses, then observe the difference in what you pick up versus what your team picks up. 

 

This isn't about laziness, it's about the fact that Warframe is terribly inefficient with how it handles loot items. 

[TrickshotMcGee]

2 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

Then play alone.

There is no argument I've seen that has swayed me on my stance on this, and all of them are rooted in "but I need all the loot and I don't want to pick it up."

Conversely, the only counter-argument seems to be "well stop being lazy", even if laziness is not the root of the request.