Cutting the middle man: Resources going straight to player's inventory

[artemisfortune]

Just now, TrickshotMcGee said:

Conversely, the only counter-argument seems to be "well stop being lazy", even if laziness is not the root of the request. 

If not being lazy means actually playing the game and walking over things that takes, and I'm not exaggerating, 5 minutes to clear every title in a mission of loot that is dropped assuming you haven't gotten any.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

Entering the first tile in Lua I'll get Vengeful Revenant. Nice? No. Just another try to make Warframe jr.

[Darkvramp]

1 minute ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

Conversely, the only counter-argument seems to be "well stop being lazy", even if laziness is not the root of the request. 

 

4 minutes ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

This isn't about laziness, it's about the fact that Warframe is terribly inefficient with how it handles loot items. 

Or the counter argument seems to be that the game would devolve into standing around and spamming abilities, it is like that already. Its not about laziness either, its about efficiency and removing unnecessarily tedious aspects to the game.

[Darkvramp]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Entering the first tile in Lua I'll get Vengeful Revenant. Nice? No. Just another try to make Warframe jr.

When did we say this affected drop rate?

[AlphaSierraMike]

6 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

If not being lazy means actually playing the game and walking over things that takes, and I'm not exaggerating, 5 minutes to clear every title in a mission of loot that is dropped assuming you haven't gotten any.

Surely backtracking is something that any game should avoid. It's just more tedious work that pads out the gameplay for no benefit whatsoever.

If picking things up was a core part of the gameplay that removing it would be detrimental to the experience, then vacuum shouldn't exist in the first place, because it does the looting for you by not requiring you to step directly on the drop. But it's there, because picking up materials is a side objective at best and does not interfere with the gameplay, in the same way that waiting for items to be build is not part of the gameplay.

If looting is the only substantial part of the actual gameplay, then maybe they should revise the whole combat system.

[TrickshotMcGee]

7 minutes ago, JSharpie said:

If not being lazy means actually playing the game and walking over things that takes, and I'm not exaggerating, 5 minutes to clear every title in a mission of loot that is dropped assuming you haven't gotten any.

Again, it's not about lazy. And if 'actually playing the game' means monotony of walking back and forth through the same tiles, spending as much time playing Warframe 52 Pickup as you spend killing enemies, then that's news to me because I thought the game focused on killing enemies and getting stronger.

If DE thought that picking up loot piece-by-piece was how they wanted it to go, Greedy Mag and vacuum never would have been concepts to begin with, and they certainly wouldn't have made vacuum (semi)universal after ignoring the request for so long. 

 

In non-endless, loot is pretty easy, sure. I'll concede that. In endless, however, loot is tiring if you don't camp somewhere in favor of running around, because it means going in and out of the same rooms and picking everything up one at a time and doing more of the running about than killing enemies. 

Lots of times I like taking my pets out instead of sentinels, simply because they're more fun. And every time I run an endless with a pet, I can't help but hate having to drone across a whole tile looking for things that dropped during the slaughter. If, for example, I'm using my max-range Maim Equinox and I kill everything within my nearly 60-meter range at once, that's a lot of searching around - especially if I use the power multiple times in succession. 

You'll probably call that lazy because, as you said, your opinion won't budge, but I will say it's simply inefficient and would benefit from change. 

 

And you seem to either have not read or simply disregarded where I suggested the inability to automatically get things like LS, health orbs, energy orbs, or even ammo. Because the way vacuum is, it's more supportive of camping than my suggestion. Removal of that ability and forcing people to nab individual non-credit/material pickups would make people run around more than they do now with sentinels, but not have to run through the same tile multiple times to get any necessary materials they may need. 

[(PSN)Onder6099]

27 minutes ago, Darkvramp said:

When did we say this affected drop rate?

Drop rate? Which? If I'll take it from the ground u want to play game based on grind without grind. Let's play it without Resources, for me it's similar like @AlphaSierraMikerecommended. 

[AlphaSierraMike]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Drop rate? Which? If I'll take it from the ground u want to play game based on grind without grind. Let's play it without Resources, for me it's similar like @AlphaSierraMikerecommended. 

You still need to kill enemies. You still need the resource to drop. You still need enough materials. You still need to grind.

How is looting considered part of grinding?

[(PSN)Onder6099]

39 minutes ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

You still need to kill enemies. You still need the resource to drop. You still need enough materials. You still need to grind.

How is looting considered part of grinding?

No I don't, I equip Trinity, Latron p, Lex p and melee and idc, teammates will do it for me.

[k05h]

4 hours ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

Why not just cut the middle man out, and put them straight into the player's inventory?

I am with you but you came to the wrong place.

For longest time most people active in the forum made arguments that they dont use carrier with vacuum and that picking stuff up is easy. They called you names for using carrier. That was until DE showed that more than 90% of the player base disagrees by choosing carrier with inate vacuum over anything else. You can clearly see how the 90% are represented in the forums. 

These people will tell you how lazy you are and how the game will totally break when they can no longer pick up every loot item indivually. But these people are not your avarage joe casual player like many of my friends. 

I for one like the idea but I am also the sort of player that equips ember with wof, ignis and carrier to farm as quickly as possible. For me farming is not the game but a mandatory task that has to be done in order to play the rest of the game. The easier farming the better the game  for me - just my opinion. 

[AlphaSierraMike]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

No I don't, I equip Trinity, Latron p, Lex p and melee and idc, teammates will do it for me.

So... what you're saying is that the only gameplay you get out of Warframe, a third person shooter, is not shooting, but picking up loot only, like some sort of connect the dot.

Jesus, Pacman had more gameplay than what you're doing.

[Artekkor]

The problem with your suggestion is that it goes against DE's intentions.

They made it clear that resource pick ups exist because they want them to. They even gave them unique models.

Its weird to see people suggesting to remove pick-ups when DE are clearly making a point that they believe it to be a core-part of the gameplay.

Personally i wouldn't mind pick ups to be gone, they are kinda breaking the immersion for me, but i don't expect it to happen anytime soon seeing how DE keeps adding things to the system.

[-N7-Leonhart]

4 hours ago, JSharpie said:

No. Absolutely not.

Have you ever played Cookie Clicker or Anti Idle? If you make this change, you make it the meta to sit in a survival in a hallway with an AOE with a macro for hours. You make it a cookie clicker, I mean it's already bad enough with Vacuum and hallways, but doing this cuts out on the game. It'd be like if all gold or potions or loot from Diablo 2 immediately went in your inventory, or if in Dark Souls you got every weapon and armor as soon as you unlocked the door.

It's promoting laziness for the sake of laziness.

That's exactly why he wants it, most likely, lmao.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

13 minutes ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

So... what you're saying is that the only gameplay you get out of Warframe, a third person shooter, is not shooting, but picking up loot only, like some sort of connect the dot.

Jesus, Pacman had more gameplay than what you're doing.

I just let you know how, imho, will game look like when your ideas will be implemented. Your trying to dictate and putting limits into freedom of this game. It's only up to me when I'm going to farm this and that, so please don't comment my playstyle while u don't know nothing about it, if nothing your going out of your own Topic.

[AlphaSierraMike]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

I just let you know how, imho, will game look like when your ideas will be implemented. Your trying to dictate and putting limits into freedom of this game. It's only up to me when I'm going to farm this and that, so please don't comment my playstyle while u don't know nothing about it, if nothing your going out of your own Topic.

... At what point did I mention anything about limiting freedom? And I'm still in the topic of "resource has nothing to do with combat, so let's separate the two".

You said "No I don't, I equip Trinity, Latron p, Lex p and melee and idc, teammates will do it for me" after i said "You still need to kill enemies. You still need the resource to drop. You still need enough materials. You still need to grind."

There's no other interpretation besides "I let my teammates do the killing while I pick up loot".

Unless it's not the "need to kill enemies" part you're saying no to. Which one is it? You don't need resource to drop? You don't need enough materials? You don't need to grind? Which one?

You can still let your teammates kill everything and pick up the scraps. And if collecting materials is enough to satisfy you, that's fine, you're still collecting resources, just not within gameplay, because it's not part of it.

Some of us actually get some kicks out of the combat, and don't want to have to choose between either diverting focus every 30 second to collect the loot or forever running vacuum.

If the act of looting, by itself, is what you get out of the game, then this conversation is going nowhere.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

24 minutes ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

... At what point did I mention anything about limiting freedom? And I'm still in the topic of "resource has nothing to do with combat, so let's separate the two".

You said "No I don't, I equip Trinity, Latron p, Lex p and melee and idc, teammates will do it for me" after i said "You still need to kill enemies. You still need the resource to drop. You still need enough materials. You still need to grind."

There's no other interpretation besides "I let my teammates do the killing while I pick up loot".

Unless it's not the "need to kill enemies" part you're saying no to. Which one is it? You don't need resource to drop? You don't need enough materials? You don't need to grind? Which one?

You can still let your teammates kill everything and pick up the scraps. And if collecting materials is enough to satisfy you, that's fine, you're still collecting resources, just not within gameplay, because it's not part of it.

Some of us actually get some kicks out of the combat, and don't want to have to choose between either diverting focus every 30 second to collect the loot or forever running vacuum.

If the act of looting, by itself, is what you get out of the game, then this conversation is going nowhere.

Someone call it alternatives, I call it limmits. 

Doesn't Vacuum and Ammo Case let u to Focus more on killing then pick up loot?

If the loot will be invisible and automatically add to Inventory i willl not be able to check that I got what I need.

If the loot will be visible, I can't see difference with your idea and running without Vacuum.

Btw, thanks to Ammo Case I started play with bad ammo efficiency weapons, again.

[(XBOX)Lem0n Sama]

Not needed. Dancing around the thinly veiled excuse given to what is nothing more than pure laziness is insulting. You don't want to be called lazy but you are, you don't want to admit you're lazy so you blame the game and it's mechanics because it doesn't allow you to be as lazy as you'd like to be. The only place in the game I would ever agree to this suggestion would be the already mentioned Arcwing.

[NightBlitz]

you say its not about laziness but efficiency, and i already told you that the line between the two is very thin. auto looting is well over that line, you just can't seem to wrap your heads around that. if the game had been designed with auto looting in mind this would have been an entirely different matter, but it wasn't and clearly DE intends to keep it how it is now. heck, the main reason they even touched carrier and vacuum in the first place was to try and get players to use a wider variety of sentinels, not to make the looting system "more efficient" or anything like that

[ArchPhaeton]

8 hours ago, k05h said:

-snip- They called you names for using carrier.-snip-

As a long time user I'd say this is one extremely subjective statement. I do recall a few people saying X sentinel/kubrow was better than Vacuum, but many others have constantly expressed their love for Carrier and how nothing else would replace it.

Personally I don't see what's so "game/immersion breaking" about picking up the despoils of defeated enemies. It's not like you have to walk to them, press an input and browse through their inventory, micro managing inventory with every fallen enemy...

[Shockwave-]

13 hours ago, JSharpie said:

No. Absolutely not.

Have you ever played Cookie Clicker or Anti Idle? If you make this change, you make it the meta to sit in a survival in a hallway with an AOE with a macro for hours. You make it a cookie clicker, I mean it's already bad enough with Vacuum and hallways, but doing this cuts out on the game. It'd be like if all gold or potions or loot from Diablo 2 immediately went in your inventory, or if in Dark Souls you got every weapon and armor as soon as you unlocked the door.

It's promoting laziness for the sake of laziness.

Well first of all the entire notion of drops is idocy. Does that wild dog REALLY drop a bite mod on the ground when you kill it? Where was it? In its pocket? Or was it using it, in which  case get out your scalpel because you have to remove it from the dog. Also why are those grineer carrying mods for your warframe? Do they always lug those things around with them when they don't have warframes? While we are at it why does a grineer solider on Ceres drop an orokin cell? Why was he carrying one around? Is it useful to him? If so why doesn't a grineer on mars carry one? Do they not have amazon.com in this universe? can the grineer not figure out how to get these things to each solider? If it's just because it's common on Ceres, what about a grineer that used to be stationed there and is now on mars, might not HE have an orokin cell?  In addition when a rare mod drops on the ground there is REALLY 4 of them.... even though i killed they guy off in some corner of a surivival by myself.... but I can't pick up all 4 and give them to my buddies after the mission, even though I can pick up 100s of mods with no problem. They have to come all the way over here to get it themselves......

The entire notion of loot based drops is counter intuitive to the game. it is just an arbitrary game mechanic. We could just as easily have a shop to buy warframe upgrades from and the lotus rewards us after every mission with currency for each grineer killed to go buy O cells, mods, etc. The notion of having to pick up loot mid battle, at the expense of our objective no less, is wacky on its face.  When you add in drops can drop in places you can't get to (especially rare drops) and this becomes burdensome.

It has nothing to do with laziness at all - that suggestion is just bitterness towards your fellow tenno. There is no reason we should want to run around the map picking things up for reason rather than focusing on the objecting and getting it done. What kind of military mission stops to gather resources mid mission that they don't need on that mission? I'd much prefer harder objectives and loot rewarded based on how well you carried out the objective, than a pickup system that detracts from it.

[AlphaSierraMike]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

Someone call it alternatives, I call it limmits. 

Doesn't Vacuum and Ammo Case let u to Focus more on killing then pick up loot?

If the loot will be invisible and automatically add to Inventory i willl not be able to check that I got what I need.

If the loot will be visible, I can't see difference with your idea and running without Vacuum.

Btw, thanks to Ammo Case I started play with bad ammo efficiency weapons, again.

Vacuum does let me focus on killing, but again, that implies I have a sentinel equipped. It is a large reason why kubrows and kavats have been ignore up to this point, besides the AI being dumb in general.

It'll still have the notification at the bottom of the screen, and you can still check it in the player card screen. I mean even now the text for displaying what I picked up goes by so fast I have to double check anyway. The only difference is that people don't have to physically interact with the loot to pick it up (materials, endo, etc), but at the same time you still have to physically interact with ammo and energy to pick it up.

The choice of whether or not to run vacuum then comes down to how much ammo/energy you want to take in. With bad ammo efficiency weapon, or a frequent caster, it would be something to consider. But with other builds that don't need a lot of ammo or energy, there's no need to use vacuum. Vacuum then becomes a mod that only affects gameplay, just like other mods. That's really how it should be. At the moment the function of assisting material gathering is as out of place as a mod that cuts build time by 30 minutes every mission, or if they made syndicate sigils occupy a mod slot. And hey, even Smeeta's Charm is debatable since it offers double exp and resource, the only consolation being it's only activates by chance.

There was always ammo mutation, but hey. As I said, vacuum (and ammo case) would be fitting combo for something with poor ammo efficiency, or an endless mission. I would still use vacuum for Kohm if this gets implemented. But for others weapons, like Latron P, Lex P, Opticor, Marelok, Sybaris, Grinlok, single shots with the full rifle/secondary ammo pool in general in non endless missions, and Melee weapons, there's less of a need, or no need at all, for ammo pickup, hence less of a need for vacuum.

The part I don't understand is the limit part. If this was implemented, what would be limited? The playstyle? If anything it stops forcing players to run off by their own to vaguely collect loot, killing along the way and making the looting area spread even larger. Unless, you're implying that collecting loot by itself is a play style, and the game should accommodate for that.

[(PSN)Onder6099]

13 minutes ago, AlphaSierraMike said:

Vacuum does let me focus on killing, but again, that implies I have a sentinel equipped. It is a large reason why kubrows and kavats have been ignore up to this point, besides the AI being dumb in general.

It'll still have the notification at the bottom of the screen, and you can still check it in the player card screen. I mean even now the text for displaying what I picked up goes by so fast I have to double check anyway. The only difference is that people don't have to physically interact with the loot to pick it up (materials, endo, etc), but at the same time you still have to physically interact with ammo and energy to pick it up.

The choice of whether or not to run vacuum then comes down to how much ammo/energy you want to take in. With bad ammo efficiency weapon, or a frequent caster, it would be something to consider. But with other builds that don't need a lot of ammo or energy, there's no need to use vacuum. Vacuum then becomes a mod that only affects gameplay, just like other mods. That's really how it should be. At the moment the function of assisting material gathering is as out of place as a mod that cuts build time by 30 minutes every mission, or if they made syndicate sigils occupy a mod slot. And hey, even Smeeta's Charm is debatable since it offers double exp and resource, the only consolation being it's only activates by chance.

There was always ammo mutation, but hey. As I said, vacuum (and ammo case) would be fitting combo for something with poor ammo efficiency, or an endless mission. I would still use vacuum for Kohm if this gets implemented. But for others weapons, like Latron P, Lex P, Opticor, Marelok, Sybaris, Grinlok, single shots with the full rifle/secondary ammo pool in general in non endless missions, and Melee weapons, there's less of a need, or no need at all, for ammo pickup, hence less of a need for vacuum.

The part I don't understand is the limit part. If this was implemented, what would be limited? The playstyle? If anything it stops forcing players to run off by their own to vaguely collect loot, killing along the way and making the looting area spread even larger. Unless, you're implying that collecting loot by itself is a play style, and the game should accommodate for that.

U r pushing me to use Ammo Efficient weapons, Ammo mutations and Trinity only, while I must put weapons with "bad" Efficiency back to Hangar to become dust catchers again. Sentinels and Companions, choice is yours, nobody is pushing u to use only Sentinels. I like to have choices like: Farming, less Efficient weapons like Braton - Carrier, Scanning, Stealth, trigger Growing Power- Helios, Bursa locker, GP again- Diriga, Buffs like more Traces- Smeeta, Melee only Adarzaa, LotR- Huras

[Volinus7]

I thought the majority want Cookieclicker that's why they use vacuum kek, as if wf is not Cookieclicker enough at this point. 

With SS Mirage you don't even have to aim.

Edited February 15, 2017 by Volinus7

[Chipputer]

I could only get behind this system if they made the AFK detection more strict. Untiil they do that I'd rather people have to move to collect the loot because I am not funding CoDPlayer6969's need for loot without any effort.

[AlphaSierraMike]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Onder6099 said:

U r pushing me to use Ammo Efficient weapons, Ammo mutations and Trinity only, while I must put weapons with "bad" Efficiency back to Hangar to become dust catchers again. Sentinels and Companions, choice is yours, nobody is pushing u to use only Sentinels. I like to have choices like: Farming, less Efficient weapons like Braton - Carrier, Scanning, Stealth, trigger Growing Power- Helios, Bursa locker, GP again- Diriga, Buffs like more Traces- Smeeta, Melee only Adarzaa, LotR- Huras

What no. Vacuum is still there in this scenario, we're not talking about removing vacuum. I'm just talking about removing the material gathering aspect of vacuum, not the ammo gathering.

Look, there's two types of drops, one is stuff you can use in combat like ammo and energy, the other being stuff you can't use like materials. I'm just suggesting that for the stuff that we can't use in combat to have them added straight into the inventory.

Nobody is forcing you to use anything. You can still use vacuum, it's still there to gather ammo for you.