Consider creating a Cell-sized pseudo-clan-tier to even out distribution in clan tier capacities

[Felvin]

I like the idea of a 4 man clan as its what I'd do

[KirukaChan]

I'm all for this idea. I'm in what is essentially a two-person clan, and I quite like it there.

[Solstrome]

19 minutes ago, KirukaChan said:

I'm all for this idea. I'm in what is essentially a two-person clan, and I quite like it there.

Yup, built the entire thing by ourselves, have all the amenities and have everything researched with the exception of Hema.

Spoiler

We have a third active and contributing member, but timezones prevent us from ever being able to play together with him.

 

[Aratir]

On 2/17/2017 at 9:59 PM, peterc3 said:

Sorry but DE should in no way, shape or form cater to people who use clans in this way. Solo clans are an aberration, they are allowed but having made one, you shouldn't be surprised when DE makes content expecting an actual clan, not a glorified personal house.

Then enjoy the empty game after the casual community will leave because they can't achive anything, its a problem already that the playerbase only rises after and update and plummets shorty after again, so gating out players will only make it lose them faster.

[Ketec]

The very least 300-1000 bracket needs another tier. 300-600 and 600-1000

Edited March 3, 2017 by Ketec

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, Aratir said:

Then enjoy the empty game after the casual community will leave because they can't achive anything, its a problem already that the playerbase only rises after and update and plummets shorty after again, so gating out players will only make it lose them faster.

What casual player is putting the forma in to a solo clan, they'd be more likely to just join an existing one.

[Rambit23Z]

Good news people. You now only need to rescue 65 defectors as opposed to 325. (In a later patch)

Talking about the clan event.

Edited March 3, 2017 by Rambit23Z

[TheLexiConArtist]

3 hours ago, Rambit23Z said:

Good news people. You now only need to rescue 65 defectors as opposed to 325. (In a later patch)

Talking about the clan event.

But it still leaves the 'stretch goal' unreasonably out of reach. You'd have to be in the absolute top tier of players by current leaderboard stats (2192 being the best individual score currently) just to get the slot and potato with two contributing players. A single person hasn't a chance.

That's why instancing a proper tier lets them balance the middle-ground attendance goal better for everyone, without shafting solo Ghosters.

[Licitaqua]

20 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

Bumped for renewed relevance with the current Operation clan scoring paradigms.

DE, you have to realise you're screwing over a very significant portion of your playerbase by asking them to do essentially three times the workload.

Now you're telling all those lone Tenno or small cells that they have to be higher-tier players (compared to the average efforts required in larger clan tiers even at their lower threshold) to get the actual significant reward at all from an event in which they are participating, due to the one-mission requirement of clan scoring, which sets a very bad precedent.

we are talking about DE here, they have had no history of trying on events like this, every time in the past they say they intend to make the game less of a grind they immediately do something to add to the grind, siebear hema or this event they have always taken the fast road and made a lower quality game. at this point i dont think their playerbase should even bother trying to help them improve they obviously dont have the ability to change

[Rambit23Z]

2 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

But it still leaves the 'stretch goal' unreasonably out of reach. You'd have to be in the absolute top tier of players by current leaderboard stats (2192 being the best individual score currently) just to get the slot and potato with two contributing players. A single person hasn't a chance.

That's why instancing a proper tier lets them balance the middle-ground attendance goal better for everyone, without shafting solo Ghosters.

That's true, but any player that can sustain a solo clan usually has no issues with Catalysts and Weapon Slots. So that we can only really get it in BP form, isn't all that bad. As for getting the Clan research version; It's obviously only intended for top tier clans.

[TheLexiConArtist]

6 minutes ago, Rambit23Z said:

That's true, but any player that can sustain a solo clan usually has no issues with Catalysts and Weapon Slots. So that we can only really get it in BP form, isn't all that bad. As for getting the Clan research version; It's obviously only intended for top tier clans.

I'd be fine with future cutting-edge rewards (read: the research) not being available to Cell clans personally (although arguably, why not? You're only taking a cell into the mission itself, right?), but there's not having an issue affording a Catalyst or Slot and then there's not having a reasonable chance not to pay for it.

 

Those four-person squads hitting the 2k+ mark baffle me, myself and my buddy that I dragged kicking and screaming back into the game barely scraped by the now-unnecessary 163 mark just to secure the blueprint. Although, having four frames contributing, the luxury of pairing off to handle both paths without having to keep staggered spawns in sync, probably helps.

[Licitaqua]

23 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

I'd be fine with future cutting-edge rewards (read: the research) not being available to Cell clans personally (although arguably, why not? You're only taking a cell into the mission itself, right?), but there's not having an issue affording a Catalyst or Slot and then there's not having a reasonable chance not to pay for it.

 

Those four-person squads hitting the 2k+ mark baffle me, myself and my buddy that I dragged kicking and screaming back into the game barely scraped by the now-unnecessary 163 mark just to secure the blueprint. Although, having four frames contributing, the luxury of pairing off to handle both paths without having to keep staggered spawns in sync, probably helps.

If only i would feel generous i would give you the strategy my clan and the top ranking members are using to manage it, ask again when the event ends and ill tell you. or join rsb servers and ask to join one of my runs tomorrow. i wont be doing any tonight its too late for a full run

[Licitaqua]

11 minutes ago, Licitaqua said:

If only i would feel generous i would give you the strategy my clan and the top ranking members are using to manage it, ask again when the event ends and ill tell you. or join rsb servers and ask to join one of my runs tomorrow. i wont be doing any tonight its too late for a full run

follow up, my clan currently has 1032 points in one run we were doing as a test. im in a solo ghost clan with only a few alts, tomorrow i intend to do an actual run for 4k points if you want to join for it message me in game or join warframe raid school bus server on discord, i'm almost always on the server and so are most of the people on the leaderboard. if i have an extra spot i might let you join though right now our squad is full. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Licitaqua

[Licitaqua]

picture of my profile so you can see for yourself of my test run

[TheLexiConArtist]

Before anyone else chips in, yes, I'm aware I'm mixing metaphors in that latter paragraph up there.

2k+ points on the leaderboard is to the 650 points two people in Ghost have to accumulate. 500+ evacs to the 163+ evacs we needed to scrape past.

 

@Licitaqua Being 'baffled' was also somewhat of an exaggeration, more that my compatriot doesn't quite have the access to and familiarity with as much as I do, or we likely could've come up with something more efficient and scored better than the 692 we did (on the first try of mission 3)... although I do wish that Limbo's Banish was less prone to mistargeting and dragging enemies into the defectors' happy place, and I didn't need to de-Rift to tell them to get a move on.

[Licitaqua]

i did this run with an mr 4 an mr 2 an mr 12 and myself, its not the ability to do it its your strategy your running 

Edited March 3, 2017 by Licitaqua

[Licitaqua]

can you tell me why everyone tries limbo for this? you would think running this mission enough would allow people to see the fault in that line of thinking. needless to say my group and most on the leaderboards have already eliminated both limbo and banshee as good frames to run this to the higher ranks, banish wont stop them from receiving the toxic procs from the later enemies which 1 hit them around 200 people extracted. and banshee wont work either, later phases when you run out of energy you die with no time to regen the energy and set up quake again. think more... conservative, something easy to cast with good cc overall. my mr 2 member ended up running with an excal blind build we set him up wiht and it worked fine to 250 people extracted, though in a real run we would change that out for something longer lasting.

[TheLexiConArtist]

1 minute ago, Licitaqua said:

can you tell me why everyone tries limbo for this? you would think running this mission enough would allow people to see the fault in that line of thinking. needless to say my group and most on the leaderboards have already eliminated both limbo and banshee as good frames to run this to the higher ranks, banish wont stop them from receiving the toxic procs from the later enemies which 1 hit them around 200 people extracted. and banshee wont work either, later phases when you run out of energy you die with no time to regen the energy and set up quake again. think more... conservative, something easy to cast with good cc overall. my mr 2 member ended up running with an excal blind build we set him up wiht and it worked fine to 250 people extracted, though in a real run we would change that out for something longer lasting.

Firstly, can you not junk up the thread with 5 posts in as many minutes with nobody in between?

 

Respectfully, this isn't a thread on the event in specifics and I'd like it not to end up amalgamated by the megathread, so this will likely be my last on the matter of running it.

 

I identified an ability set which would work better with a single ally overall. Of course having 4 diverse warframes is going to lead to better times. I may thoroughly question how an MR2 and 4 survive the level 200+ infested since damage reductions only go so far, especially along with unlikely maxed survivabilities but, that aside, why Limbo?

Having to juggle spawn locations necessitates some period of leaving the Defectors to their evacuation between point A and the ship to keep time (one Banish covers it as long as they're fully healthy). Immunity to Parasitic energy drain.

I have not noticed penetrating toxic effects, at least certainly not upon the Limbo itself, so that leaves the only real flaws being exposure to give the 'move' command, healing the Defectors without the use of Medbays (Haven, or a healing warframe in the squad), and... those targeting issues.

I figure a good Trin/Limbo combo could pretty much go until oblivion as long as the targeting is on point. Supermaxed duration banishment and the ability to heal defectors while they're safely in there should make it a walkthrough in one or two rounds of Banish and a few Blessings to ease the passive health drain. I would try Ivara cloaking if the idiots stuck close enough to be covered by cloak arrow bubbles reliably; being immune to attacks isn't quite as good in general as never being attacked in the first place.. but eximi auras pose problems there, too.

[Licitaqua]

2 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

 identified an ability set which would work better with a single ally overall. Of course having 4 diverse warframes is going to lead to better times. I may thoroughly question how an MR2 and 4 survive the level 200+ infested since damage reductions only go so far, especially along with unlikely maxed survivabilities but, that aside, why Limbo?

i have done this using only a single ally in running double trinities using tellos boltace with maxed naramon for perma invis spaming bless to heal, we got to 180 extractions before the enemies started killing them faster then we could bless and got overrun.

the trin/limbo combo has been glitched in that mission, trinity cannot heal the defectors inside rift. i have tested this in many runs and even with the patch its impossible to sustain at high levels

the mr 2 and 4 were given mods from my more then abundant arsenal that i keep for missions like these

hard cc is more useful here overall then the ability to survive, equip your leveled members with a good sustain weapon like the tellos boltace to kill the eximus and toxic ancients so that your low level squad can run freely around providing what cc they can.

as i have stated i managed this run with an mr 2 running stock excal i taxed him to 30 and provided a potato and mods for him to use, the mr 4 had a finished frost and the base mods he needed to run a max range min dmg frost to provide great aoe cc with the blind from excal using a max duration sufficing for the mission up to the 250 extractions.

8 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

I figure a good Trin/Limbo combo could pretty much go until oblivion as long as the targeting is on point. Supermaxed duration banishment and the ability to heal defectors while they're safely in there should make it a walkthrough in one or two rounds of Banish and a few Blessings to ease the passive health drain. I would try Ivara cloaking if the idiots stuck close enough to be covered by cloak arrow bubbles reliably; being immune to attacks isn't quite as good in general as never being attacked in the first place.. but eximi auras pose problems there, too.

the ivara was an idea i tossed around until I factored the toxic ancients and the many different eximus enemies who at 400+ extractions will 1 hit you and the defectors, blessing is an idea we are using as both the mr 12 and myself can run trins for it, though the defectors cannot be affected by bless more then once, so using max duration actually counteracts the heal if used again but refreshes the duration making a bless almost worthless. though limbo is an idea that if it worked properly would work, focus less on diverting the dmg as its dealt and more on making sure the dmg CANT be dealt.

thats the last im going to comment on strategies, if you want anymore i suggest you ask tomorrow before we start our run

[Teridax68]

I like this idea, and I think it's particularly relevant now that the newest event has shown just how flawed the current clan system is when it comes to scaling goals and rewards. In fact, I'd argue you could go a step further, and restructure clan tiers so that they'd scale by powers of 4, to mirror both the size of cells and the four directions the dojo spreads in, scaling with capacity: clan tier 0 would just be for solo players, tier 1 would have a maximum size of 4, tier 2 a size of 16, tier 3 a size of 64, and so on up to tier 5, which would have 1024 players at most. Using just the current system, you could just multiply the requirements by 4 each time, and so both the smallest and largest clans wouldn't be too excessively penalized for having insufficient players.

However, that also raises the question as to why there are clan tiers at all: the only reason we have them now is because larger clans get more dojo space and need to pay more for building and research, but dojos aren't really considered valuable beyond the research they provide, and research could be made to scale on a per-player basis, rather than based on tier. Considering how DE has shown that they can lock and unlock requirements at will based on roster size, the same can be done to dynamically adjust costs in current dojos, without having to go through the process of adding more useless rooms just to go up a tier.

On 2/17/2017 at 3:59 PM, peterc3 said:

Sorry but DE should in no way, shape or form cater to people who use clans in this way. Solo clans are an aberration, they are allowed but having made one, you shouldn't be surprised when DE makes content expecting an actual clan, not a glorified personal house.

Yes, how dare players make practical use of an awkwardly implemented content gate as it was given to them. Shame on them for opening a clan just to access the frames and weapons exclusive to it, and thereby advance normally through the game. Perhaps if we punish them enough by screwing them over with excessive to impossible grinds, they'll eventually get the message and really enjoy hiring more people for the right reasons, right?

Edited March 5, 2017 by Teridax68