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Limbo Rework Discussion and Feedback

Hrodgrim

By Hrodgrim,
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Buzkyl

Buzkyl

Posted
Posted (edited)

Passive- It's a great Idea, however b it should be expanded that his backflips and side rolls also bring him into the rift. From what was displayed only a forward roll brings him into the rift.

Banish-AoE Banish is a much better addition. Warframe is a horde based shooter, single target skills should not be a thing. It's range however should be small enough that  it should only function to bring small groups of enemies into the rift as shown.

Stasis- Very good ability for CC and general support. The cap for projectiles and enemies should be seperate. Because rift surge creates mini pickets of the rift i fear statis might untimely get limbo killed because enemies keep walking into his pocket of the rift. This skill is indeed a good skill but I will wait for the numbers of it before making judgements.

Rift Surge- Limbo being able to affect both planes is a welcome changed, however i'm curious as the the effects of his "charging enemies" wil do. The mini pockets of the rift allows him to drag further enemies into he rift outside of his 1 and 4 however because of stasis cap I am concern this part of the ability can potentially get limbo killed.

Cataclysm- It;s very good that it appears we can loot within cataclysm. Hopefully we should be able to hack within there as well. The force stun is a welcome addition.

Edited by Buzkyl
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Shadu

Shadu

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1 minute ago, DarkOvion said:

So... from a gentleman duelist, unique among frames that specialised in field control and choosing his battles to... a 'ghost' that had powers 'like' other frames, including time slow (like rhino) and area effect abilities (like nova).

That alone is massively worrying - prior to this there was nothing about Limbo 'like' other frames.

The more I see, the complete lack of a damn given about what the frame *is* by the devs, saying one thing and doing the opposite makes me very dubious.

While I do see your point, I think that with the way warframe is, fighting enemies one by one does not work well as you'll be overwhelmed with enemies.

So while I did like the duelist look as well, I don't think it fits warframe all that well. Which is also part of his problem (being able to handle groups).
The way they are doing it now is staying with the style he has, it's just being applied to more enemies which I do think is a good way to go about things.

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aligatorno

aligatorno

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

So... from a gentleman duelist, unique among frames that specialised in field control and choosing his battles to... a 'ghost' that had powers 'like' other frames, including time slow (like rhino) and area effect abilities (like nova).

That alone is massively worrying - prior to this there was nothing about Limbo 'like' other frames.

The more I see, the complete lack of a damn given about what the frame *is* by the devs, saying one thing and doing the opposite makes me very dubious.

Let's not exaggerate, he's not that different. Even if his powers made him unique, it did not mean that it made him good, ergo him being one of the least used frames in the game and one of the most hated probably besides Ember and Mirage.

 

I like him more than I like some other frames, but it was clear that he had to be taken through a different route by the developers, and what they chose is way better than what we have right now. 

Edited by aligatorno
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morningstar999

morningstar999

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Shadu said:

While I do see your point, I think that with the way warframe is, fighting enemies one by one does not work well as you'll be overwhelmed with enemies.

but with limbo taking out the hard single targets the rest of the team could deal with the mooks? its a team game after all....

 

7 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

Let's not exaggerate, he's not that different. Even if his powers made him unique, it did not mean that it made him good, ergo him being one of the least used frames in the game and one of the most hated probably besides Ember and Mirage.

sounds like you've not played limbo much....most people just didn't know how to use him correctly combined with people trolling via putting people in rift when not wanted was what made limbo unpopular.

also ember and mirage are hugely popular. I dunno what game you've been playing but I'm not sure it's this one...

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Dragaroo

Dragaroo

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Posted

Although I am currently still really enjoying the live limbo build at the moment, these new concepts and ideas look amazing and would definitely add another level of game play to Limbo himself!

Whilst I do agree with some of Shadu's comments above addressing the issue that he will always have that "Trolly" aspect and could possibly be a hindrance to the team, if played right, he looks like now he could be a much greater asset to the team then ever before.

A friend of mine and I thought of the idea that whilst in cataclysm, if maybe limbo dodged he would be put out of the rift, but in the bubble radius making ranged enemies out of the rift, melee enemies in the rift and you out of the rift in the middle of the rift if that makes sense. I don't know if it would be a necessary addition at all but it would be interesting to how see people utilize such a strange mechanic that could possibly add more to the depth of limbo gameplay.

With this being said I really think the team have done a great job so far making the gentleman frame more in tune with controlling space and time and I think the direction he is headed will finally make him the master of the rift!

Keep up the good work guys!!
- Dragaroo

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Shadu

Shadu

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Just now, morningstar999 said:

but with limbo taking out the hard single targets the rest of the team could deal with the mooks? its a team game after all....

 

sounds like you've not played limbo much....most people just didn't know how to use him correctly combined with people trolling via putting people in rift when not wanted was what made limbo unpopular.

also ember and mirage are hugely popular. I dunno what game you've been playing but I'm not sure it's this one...

While yes he is capable of doing that (and I used to do that), I personally never have problems when playing other warframes with those types of enemies due to the weapons or warframe I'm using. So while yes banishing 1 dangerous enemy might look useful to the Limbo himself from the perspective of a other player it isn't as useful, instead being able to kill big groups of enemies so the mission goes by faster is often more useful.

Ember and Mirage are indeed popular but also slightly hated due to killing everything and having ton's of visual effects which in turn make the mission not as fun for you to do (nothing to kill and your screen full of visual effects so it can be hard to see certain stuff).
But plenty of warframes can be hated at times, even ones as frost due to not being able to shoot into the globe, so it comes down to: play the warframe you enjoy using and others just have to adept to the circumstances.

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DarkOvion

DarkOvion

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Shadu said:

While I do see your point, I think that with the way warframe is, fighting enemies one by one does not work well as you'll be overwhelmed with enemies.

So while I did like the duelist look as well, I don't think it fits warframe all that well. Which is also part of his problem (being able to handle groups).
The way they are doing it now is staying with the style he has, it's just being applied to more enemies which I do think is a good way to go about things.

Thing is, they're shifting it from a scalpel frame, to an AOE spam frame.

The finesse is being replaced by something else....

The whole point of limbo currently, is fine granular control.

Making everything AoE based, and one of the powers lock out his abilities if those AoE's hit too many things is... concerning.

To get the most out of Limbo right now, you have to be constantly using all 4 powers....

If you constantly use all 4 with this rework as presented, you lose out on control - and might get locked out of your abilities entirely for a time.

8 minutes ago, aligatorno said:

Let's not exaggerate, he's not that different. Even if his powers made him unique, it did not mean that it made him good, ergo him being one of the least used frames in the game and one of the most hated probably besides Ember and Mirage.

 

I like him more than I like some other frames, but it was clear that he had to be taken through a different route by the developers, and what they chose is way better than what we have right now. 

Limbo is really good as-is.

I keep saying, I would rather people perceive Limbo as bad, rather than Limbo actually be bad.

Whether this re-work will actually be good or not... I don't know - but what I've seen, doesn't feel like the same Limbo

Gone from a very fine, directed Field Control to a spammy AoE frame - it moves differently, it plays differently, it behaves differently, it looks different... it's not an exaggeration, they are basically removing Limbo and replacing it with a different frame with a different concept.

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aligatorno

aligatorno

Posted
Posted
Just now, morningstar999 said:

 

sounds like you've not played limbo much....most people just didn't know how to use him correctly combined with people trolling via putting people in rift when not wanted was what made limbo unpopular.

also ember and mirage are hugely popular. I dunno what game you've been playing but I'm not sure it's this one...

Hated doesn't mean unused/unpopular.  Lots of players despise having them in the squad, the forum is full of threads about it.

Regarding Limbo. I did not touch him really that much, true, but I got the gist of his abilities. The problem is that you either have to take each enemy out one by one,  snipe them from afar while they are in cataclysm, or shadowstep with a crit weapon while in Cataclysm. I use him mostly for Lua SPY, but every now and then for a defense with low range high duration cataclysm. 

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Luhcs

Luhcs

Posted
Posted (edited)

SO,in my time to get limbo, it took me 374 excavators to get the limbo chassis bp(you could say I'm dedicated to limbo).

PASSIVE-i would have preferred his rift walk to this

BANISH-yes , you want to banish the defense target, well now you're also going to banish all the guys who's trying to kill him/her too(and now from what i hear you have to get OUT of the rift to un-banish something you didn't want to banish in the first place, because its a BLOODY AOE

RIFT SURGE- Im not even going to talk about this one(take that as you will)

CATACALYSM- it was limbos second worst skill, and they barely tweaked it.

NEXT TIME ON REWORK CENTRAL

OBERON

SMITE- now scales with enemy hp

HALLOWED GROUND- they do nothing to this skill, except make standing on it buff Renewals power, and shortens debuff duration( while extending buff duration)

RENEWAL- Is now a passive, that is always in effect(like Lucio) Removes all harmful effects 

RECKONING-scales better, creates little patches of Hallowed Ground.

Well Sht i was trying to make a sarcastic horrible rework but......thats actually not a Horrible idea.

 

Edited by Luhcs
Miss-spelled words
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(PSN)psycofang

(PSN)psycofang

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, DarkOvion said:

Gone from a very fine, directed Field Control

 

Until he can banish nullifiers his very fine field control never matched anyone elses mass crowd death crowd control.

 

His very fine control was next to useless simply due to the fact you just pulled an enemy that couldve gotten CC-deathed faster by another frame.

 

His very fine control was at best borderline useless in this game and better used elsewhere, his benefits are more than just single target "control" and as a limbo main im not going to pretend like his powers arent disruptive.

Edited by (PS4)psycofang
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(XBOX)TheMadCash

(XBOX)TheMadCash

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Let me start off by saying Limbo Rework is totally amazing. It's awesome that DE can take something good and turn it great. Let's look at some of the positives of his Rework

Rift Walk is now his passive. (Does this means no duration?)

Banish is now a small aoe (Great so you don't have to spam it. Well you still do just not as often now.

Rift Walk now pauses enemies and projectiles in the rift. (I'm assuming this combo with banish will have a small if not no duration on bosses. Also hope that there will be a special ui to let us know if we are close to reaching our cap)

Rift Surge is now a radical charge of all the enemies in the rift, when killed in the rift. Will arc lightening enemies on the opposite plane. Enemies that are killed that is surged but not in the rift will create mini pockets of cataclysm. (Correct me if I was wrong. This sounds like a great ability to play with. Especially if your really good with him creating mini pockets of time throughout the battlefield. Stopping enemies that steps into them. This is also great for teammates that wanna avoid dmg for awhile.)

The Flaw 

is his roll redesign. It's more of a slide now. It's very awesome now that it's his way of entering the rift and leaving. Makes picking up drops on the run way more smooth than it is now. But a lot of players involve roll as a way to move very quickly around. Now that has been taken away from limbo. Not necessarily a problem because he is avoiding dmg when in the rift. 

But that could get some getting used to not trying to roll as a combo in movement to get around quickly with the others. Only problem I see is now limbo will fall behind the squad when moving around the battlefield. 

Honorable Mention

Now banished enemies no longer have that God awful "white flames". Don't know about anyone else that plays Limbo but I absolutely hated that.

Thoughts?

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Xaranoth

Xaranoth

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Posted

I'll probably get used to it. Same way I got used to not sprinting with Ivara. But yeah the new color animations on banished enemies look much better than those white flames (it looks kind of like a wavey, heavy black outline now), and overall visibility in the rift looked better.

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