Add punishment for mission leeches

[GnarlsDarkley]

38 minutes ago, FoxsongHD said:

I'm more or less talking about people that $&*^ around in spies and make you do all the work, way too many times have I been the only person to do every single vault and its starting to annoy me greatly.

Thats the reason why I do spies, rescues and sabotages only in invite only mode

[Bibliothekar]

8 minutes ago, FoxsongHD said:

I don't play spy solo because I like to help other players whether they know how to do it or not, if they don't I help them.

Waitwaitwait ... so you play Spy in PuGs because you want to help players who can't do the vaults - and then complain that you have to do all vaults? Are you serious?

[Eyrfith]

3 minutes ago, Gruumzh said:

I don't think it's possible to make a system that would be able to determine on it's own who's leeching and who isn't. There's too many factors to look into to be able to set up a clear criteria of when you get removed from a mission or whatever punishment it may be, which is why I think it would be the best to leave it up to players to deal with leechers by implementing a kick option. No further punishment needed, the player leeching is voted out of the mission by the remaining 3 players. The player doesn't get any rewards, but they don't really lose anything either except their time. It's not that big of a deal that it deserves harsher punishment but is discouraging enough to make them not leech again, especially when it would be easy for players to recognize and kick a leech from the mission-

I'm cool with the addition of a kick vote system, i hope that this low-toxic comunity stays the same, and doesn't lead it to a troll free-kick one.

3 minutes ago, Gruumzh said:

Yes, of course they aren't literally the same thing and I too would rather carry a player who doesn't have strong enough equipment to be useful rather than someone who just doesn't care to contribute and afks. But I think you got exactly what I was trying to say there, it doesn't make any significant difference to the other players whether you're completely afk and watching TV or you are just useless because you did not want to bring at least one weapon to be somewhat useful. In that sense, there's really not a big difference and both players are leeching and expecting you to do everything for them.

I think the real problem about the leeching, is on high level content, like sorties, kuva overflows, etc, where 1 less player means a lot, that's when a leecher (of any side) is hurting the game. I don't think in a regular mission you could have that much trouble for a leecher, but wait, i'm not defending them at any point and i really think they should have some kind of punishment.

[FoxsongHD]

1 minute ago, Bibliothekar said:

Waitwaitwait ... so you play Spy in PuGs because you want to help players who can't do the vaults - and then complain that you have to do all vaults? Are you serious?

You must not of read the original post. I complain about people who outright refuse to do anything and get mad at you when you call them out and clearly know how to play the game, aka mr 10+. Please read the post before commenting on it, you don't even need to if you have any bit of common sense.

[Latiac]

It depends, if they are actually doing stuff - in my eyes that's fine, a punishment should be dealt out (People who AFK in a spawn on a sortie survival for example)

But many people, myself included have been called a 'leecher' for sitting down because someone decided to use a WoF Ember or Resonating Quake Banshee - If you are one of those people who use those frames and kill everything as it spawns and STILL have the nerve to call people out for doing 'nothing' then that's just a bad thing to do.

Punishments should be awarded to those who ACTUALLY leech, but if you bring a frame that just kills everything as it spawns, expect people to get bored very quickly.

[Calwon5]

Quite frankly, I don't care if someone is leeching as long as its not a raid. Anything other than a raid, then I wouldn't care what the other three is doing. Each and every mission I go into, I will assume the role of carrying the other three if needed.

Sure its annoying when you see one of those leechers that just stood still and moving from time to time, but any sort of punishment that is added that would target an AFK player quickly would mean it would target you as well. It's hard to tell which player is AFK, by not moving for a min? by not killing an enemy in a min?

Anything that is implemented to mark a player quickly as afk which prevent them from just slightly a little bit or killing an enemy would affect you as well. What I mean by that is, most would want a leecher to get marked by the system and get punished right? Well, what if you get marked as AFK for not killing enough enemy, or dealing enough damage, or not moving in a min.

Well, those things could potentially happen to anyone so any sort of AFK system will affect everyone negatively overall.

Before anyone else thinks a voting system to kick an individual is a good idea, its clearly not if you think logically.

Logically speaking, you would think that a voting system to kick someone would sound good on paper because it would be used to kick individuals who are leechers, or doing something unpleasant to your group. Well sure for those reasons it would be legitimate but what would happen if three players that know each other just wants to kick random players for no reason? It will happen, look at a game like L4D2. While our community is less toxic than L4D2, it doesn't mean there wouldn't be a group that will be abusing it.

TL:DR

Any sort of punishment added to the game that would punish AFK players would affect everyone else negatively.

Voting system to kick players is not the way to go and is absolutely the worst idea possible.

So what do I propose?

Nothing, because anything added to punish these players would punish you eventually when you need to do something IRL.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Calwon5

[ashrah]

27 minutes ago, MrBlas619 said:

Well, that escalated quickly, i think a permaban for afk is absurd, it's not hurting anybody, it's not inulting anybody, being afk shouldn't be punished with a permaban under any circunstances. 

I think they should implement some kind of "counter", for example, for each 5 times you leech, you get like 10% less credits, resources and affinity. The problem still is "who is leeching, and who is not?".

If i'm at least trying, means that i'm actually spending time on playing the game, if you stay afk, you could be watching TV or any kind of stuff and still be in the game. I think there's a little difference there, at least in morality, in actual gameplay, i understand if you see both as leeching.

sometimes u must be radical if u wish to change stuff.. yes in  some mmo for afk u can get perma ban....cz that act directly effect other players gameplay too on very negative way

[Gruumthimus.Prime]

3 minutes ago, Stormandreas said:

I always go into missions with low level gear that have been forma'd, and so are not as powerful as they can be, to level them. I always fight, and I always try, it just takes longer. Why would I go to level 2 missions when I have access to level 30's that will level my gear faster, that I can still solo?
Its not leeching, its leveling, there is a difference. I'm talking about when someone goes to a mission for leveling, and is accused of leeching despite fighting and doing what they can with the equipment at hand.

I think we misunderstood each other. I do the same thing, but there's a big difference in it. When I have a catalyst and few formas on a weapon, even if it's at level 0 I can still kill enemies up to a pretty high level, usually higher than the mission itself. I think you know I was referring to players who just bring a completely new frame/weapon to level and can do absolutely nothing. Of course there's nothing wrong with using an unranked weapon/frame that doesn't have formas/potato, but in that case at least bring one thing in your loadout that would make you useful. Because if you're leveling all of your equipment and you don't have potatoes on it and you haven't forma'd it 3+ times so that it can still do something even unranked, then you are leeching because you're as useless as that guy that's sitting afk and watching TV. (that's talking about "higher" level missions, which is why I said just go to earth)

[Eyrfith]

6 minutes ago, Calwon5 said:

Quite frankly, I don't care if someone is leeching as long as its not a raid. Anything other than a raid, then I wouldn't care what the other three is doing. Each and every mission I go into, I will assume the role of carrying the other three if needed.

Sure its annoying when you see one of those leechers that just stood still and moving from time to time, but any sort of punishment that is added that would target an AFK player quickly would mean it would target you as well. It's hard to tell which player is AFK, by not moving for a min? by not killing an enemy in a min?

Anything that is implemented to mark a player quickly as afk which prevent them from just slightly a little bit or killing an enemy would affect you as well. What I mean by that is, most would want a leecher to get marked by the system and get punished right? Well, what if you get marked as AFK for not killing enough enemy, or dealing enough damage, or not moving in a min.

Well, those things could potentially happen to anyone so any sort of AFK system will affect everyone negatively overall.

Before anyone else thinks a voting system to kick an individual is a good idea, its clearly not if you think logically.

Logically speaking, you would think that a voting system to kick someone would sound good on paper because it would be used to kick individuals who are leechers, or doing something unpleasant to your group. Well sure for those reasons it would be legitimate but what would happen if three players that know each other just wants to kick random players for no reason? It will happen, look at a game like L4D2. While our community is less toxic than L4D2, it doesn't mean there wouldn't be a group that will be abusing it.

TL:DR

Any sort of punishment added to the game that would punish AFK players would affect everyone else negatively.

Voting system to kick players is not the way to go and is absolutely the worst idea possible.

Why would i lose time to kick someone without a reason? I know there will be people doing it, but i think it will be a minority. If those three friends want to play alone, that's why a "Only friends" or "Only invite" options exists.

3 minutes ago, ashrah said:

sometimes u must be radical if u wish to change stuff.. yes in  some mmo for afk u can get perma ban....cz that act directly effect other players gameplay too on very negative way

I still find permaban for afk too harsh, no matter the game.

Edited February 18, 2017 by MrBlas619

[Pizzarugi]

I'm more upset at the lack of contribution/leeching from players during sorties. Yes leeching is bad and all in maps or kuva farms, but I expect people to actually try and pull their weight in missions with level 60-100 enemies that may have special enhancements. I'm fine (if a little annoyed) if I have to carry the team in solar system missions since some are leveling their things, but there's absolutely no excuse for anyone to be leeching in endgame content.

Honestly, I wish DE would implement an ingame report feature so I can report the leecher before leaving the team. I refuse to carry leeches in sorties.

Edited February 18, 2017 by Pizzarugi

[Soketsu]

Hell no, I know it's annoying but each time DE add something on that, afk players find a way to counter it and the worst, this thing punish regular player.

You know about the "you fail because you don't kill anyone in the last 15 minutes in a moon spy mission in solo mod" ? It's a thing against afk players but punish people as well. And the 2 minute no reward detection ? It's cool if you "afk" because the host leave and the new host have a S#&$ty co some moment before the reward screen (defense interception) you loose the reward ?

For what you say, no one will want to play support with that, you will have to find ally whet let you some kill & dps to be done, what happen If i spawn somewhere where I can't fight with unstuck innefficient ? what happen if the host got a connection so ba that I can't fight ? don't tell me leave & go in another mission because : I don't want to miss an alert reward because I got matched with this kind of problem. In the end the only thing I will do it's join even less the pub.

After I'm may be too lucky, I do see many of them, and my gear allow me to solo almost every mission so I don't really care

Edited February 18, 2017 by Soketsu

[FoxsongHD]

2 minutes ago, Soketsu said:

Hell no, I know it's annoying but each time DE add something on that, afk players find a way to counter it and the worst, this thing punish regular player.

You know about the "you fail because you don't kill anyone in the last 15 minutes in a moon spy mission in solo mod" ? It's a thing against afk players but punish people as well. And the 2 minute no reward detection ? It's cool if you "afk" because the host leave and the new host have a S#&$ty co some moment before the reward screen (defense interception) you loose the reward ?

For what you say, no one will want to play support with that, you will have to find ally whet let you some kill & dps to be done, what happen If i spawn somewhere where I can't fight with unstuck innefficient ? what happen if the host got a connection so ba that I can't fight ? don't tell me leave & go in another mission because : I don't want to miss an alert reward because I got matched with this kind of problem. In the end the only thing I will do it's join even less the pub.

Personally I don't like the "get ___ kills in ___ time to not be considered afk", are you aiming this response at me or someone else?

[Soketsu]

Just now, FoxsongHD said:

Personally I don't like the "get ___ kills in ___ time to not be considered afk", are you aiming this response at me or someone else?

No one, it's just a mechanic that kick you out of your mission if you don't kill or damage a foe during 15 minutes,

Spoiler

and I must say the 1time I've done a spy mission on moon, hell I took my time,

at the last vault, I tried to solve the musical challenge and a 1 minute timer get active and I was like : wtf ?! then fail because there where NO ennemy to shot at

It was designed to fight the leechers but end up to annoy player too.

[Bibliothekar]

36 minutes ago, MrBlas619 said:

Why would i lose time to kick someone without a reason?

Some people don't need a reason to go out of their way and make someone else's day miserable.

[Eyrfith]

1 minute ago, Bibliothekar said:

Some people don't need a reason to go out of their way and make someone else's day miserable.

Well, as i said earlier, i know there will be people doing it, but... would a kick make your day miserable? If i get kicked of a squad, i will pick the mission again, i don't think i will run into another squad of a**holes again that soon.

[MagPrime]

Got a leech?  Got nVidia graphics card?  Hit alt + z, record the mission, upload to YouTube and submit to Support.  I've done this about half a dozen times already.

I prefer video, it covers all possible questions.  They don't move, the don't respond, they have no kills, etc.  It's even better when they start talking over voice chat, thinking they can't be caught, and flat out admit to leeching, followed with a "what are you gonna do about it?"  XD  

Not the best solution but certainly one of the most amusing. 

[Bibliothekar]

Just now, MrBlas619 said:

Well, as i said earlier, i know there will be people doing it, but... would a kick make your day miserable?

Depends. 19 waves into a Fissure defense? Absolutely.

The only kind of vote-kick I'd ever want is during team-up, before you load into the mission. That's how ME3 does it and that's the only way it should be done (if at all). If Warframe ever got vote-kick in missions, I'd first stop playing PuGs and then pretty soon I'd stop playing Warframe altogether since there's only one of my friends left.

[MagPrime]

2 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

Depends. 19 waves into a Fissure defense? Absolutely.

The only kind of vote-kick I'd ever want is during team-up, before you load into the mission. That's how ME3 does it and that's the only way it should be done (if at all). If Warframe ever got vote-kick in missions, I'd first stop playing PuGs and then pretty soon I'd stop playing Warframe altogether since there's only one of my friends left.

I have to agree, no in mission vote kicks.  I've payed games that had that feature and it is beyond aggravating to be kicked because they want one of their clanmates in the team instead, or they just don't like how you play.  Not even trolling or being a burden, they just don't like it.  I was kicked for not telling someone how to play their character once.  Asinine. 

[Eyrfith]

6 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

Depends. 19 waves into a Fissure defense? Absolutely.

The only kind of vote-kick I'd ever want is during team-up, before you load into the mission. That's how ME3 does it and that's the only way it should be done (if at all). If Warframe ever got vote-kick in missions, I'd first stop playing PuGs and then pretty soon I'd stop playing Warframe altogether since there's only one of my friends left.

The problem is, if you can't kick someone inside a mission, why would have a kick option then? The kick option debated here is intended to kick leechers of your squad, in the lobby, you can't know if someone is going to leech or not.

[-Apple-Pie-]

So, if i cheese the Spy with Limbo or Ivara, and get 0 kills, im a leech? Same question for LoR, Rescue, or even Assassination, when you can kill only 1? What about im a support who constantly gives energy for team, but gets 0 kills? Also, people may have a situation, where they are forced to go AFK, like if the doorbell rangs, or cat jumping on keyboard.  We already have anti-AFK system, if you AFK for 3 minutes, you get no XP and Completion Reward. What else do you want? A wireless Shotgun-to-the-head?

[Bibliothekar]

12 minutes ago, MrBlas619 said:

The problem is, if you can't kick someone inside a mission, why would have a kick option then?

So you can get rid of people you don't want to play with (again) without having to disband and rebuild the squad?

[FoxsongHD]

12 minutes ago, mobilehacker said:

So, if i cheese the Spy with Limbo or Ivara, and get 0 kills, im a leech? Same question for LoR, Rescue, or even Assassination, when you can kill only 1? What about im a support who constantly gives energy for team, but gets 0 kills? Also, people may have a situation, where they are forced to go AFK, like if the doorbell rangs, or cat jumping on keyboard.  We already have anti-AFK system, if you AFK for 3 minutes, you get no XP and Completion Reward. What else do you want? A wireless Shotgun-to-the-head?

I never said I wanted people that don't kill but work should be punished or are leeches so I don't know if you completely missed the point of the post or you just forgot to quote someone. I said this before, I'm aiming for a direct, enforced report for leeches to be implemented.

[AerinSol]

Just record their IP and block them in your firewall. I have like 40+ people in there that I will never connect to.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, FoxsongHD said:

I never said I wanted people that don't kill but work should be punished or are leeches so I don't know if you completely missed the point of the post or you just forgot to quote someone. I said this before, I'm aiming for a direct, enforced report for leeches to be implemented.

How do you tell if someone has been leeching?  Most of the time, it's confirmed by the end of mission screen, showing no kills, no damage dealt or taken, etc.  

They have a valid concern about being dubbed a leech through no fault of their own. 

[Eyrfith]

5 minutes ago, Bibliothekar said:

So you can get rid of people you don't want to play with (again) without having to disband and rebuild the squad?

But that makes you have to "swallow" their attitude at least one mission.