Nekros without Augments

[V0ltHunter]

Is it just me or Nekros/(Prime) is just too underwhelming without his augments? 

This is just my experience with Nekros back when I haven't got any augments for him. Now that I have Despoil and Shield of Shadows, he's really great.

His Soul Punch doesn't seemed to help in most situations but I'll admit, seeing an enemy flew away is really satisfying. At least, Ember's fireball has a little aoe. (I know Soul Punch also has a mild aoe but problem is, it's not affected by Power Strength) And what really bugs me about this ability is it's Description. A blow so powerful, it turns the enemy's very soul into a deadly projectile, damaging all in its path.

Right.......

Onto hiss Terrify. That, I had no problem with. IMO, one of the best abilities ever.

His Desecrate ability, one of the main reason people uses him in a mission. Since this ability only grants 50% chance (not 100) for dead enemies to drop additional loot, is kind of a waste of energy when you hit the other 50%, especially if energy is scarce situation. People who doesn't have the Despoil augment is really in for a dilemma. Unless I have a constant source of energy, I always find myself having the need to choose between using the desecrate ability or using the other abilities, considering how fast Desecrate burn through his energy. Or at least that's the problem I'm facing back when I haven't had Despoil.

And finally, Shadows of the Dead. Without the Shield of Shadows augment, I always find myself following where my Shadows go instead of the other way around as I need them as meat shield. Is like I'm the slave of my minions

CODEX

Nekros uses his dark powers to manipulate his enemies, both living and dead

This is Nekros, manipulator of souls.

Nekros possesses the battlefield, Tenno. Death is his playground.

-Lotus

 

I have tried every Warframe and Nekros is the only warframe that I felt that his augments are a must while the other warframe's augments felt like privileges. So my fellow Tenno, what do you lot think? I might have gotten something wrong. Should he be buff or not? Or just a QOL change?

[ashrah]

nope i played nekros without augments a lot before... but insted of augments max efficancy with primed flow...

[VinDanger]

7 minutes ago, V0ltHunter said:

Is it just me or Nekros/(Prime) is just too underwhelming without his augments?

it's not just you, he is completely reliant on his augments

soul punch is terrible CC, the augment adds good utility at least

terrify is okay in certain situations, but the augment makes it way less annoying to use

desecrate and sotd are way too hard to sustain without equilibrium+despoil without sacrificing your survivability

shield of shadows is the very definition of a mandatory mod and it requires so much power strength to actually take full advantage of

[o.0-]

Nekros is better than before.

But I'd still like to see a few tweaks:

1. Soul Punch can work on Shadows and detonate them, sending a Soul Projectile out and casting a Shadow from the list in its place, at the cost of health or energy.
2. Terrify reduce base cost to 70.
3. SotD reduce the health decay to 2.25 or 2.5 from 3.0.
4. Eximus can create a regular version of itself for SotD when killed by Nekros or an Eximus with no special aura / abilities.
5. Shadows can gain a small fraction of health from health orbs (maybe Energy, if using Equilibrium?) and a small fraction when enemies die.

 

Edited February 22, 2017 by SPARTAN-187.Thanatos
one more idea.

[Xekrin]

31 minutes ago, V0ltHunter said:

People who doesn't have the Despoil augment is really in for a dilemma.

It is practically mandatory to have despoil if you have any wish to use desecrate any length of time.  I'm sure there are those who do not but the alternative really limits his other 2 abilities.

Soul punch is fun but useless, well it has some oh crap functionality but considering its description, it falls flat.  I watched the Nekros Prime Trailer and just weeped because that version and the in-game version are two totally different abilities.  I want the one in the trailer.

Yes these are just opinions of mine.

[NightmareT12]

I run Nekros with Shield of Shadows only, and that's because I like being protected as a squishy frame... I desecrate a lot, but don't use extra range usually.

Honestly, the only real change he needs now is a better base range for Terrify, a small numeric change in Health Decay for shadows (something I advocated for already when rework hit) and a better Soul Punch.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

47 minutes ago, V0ltHunter said:

Is it just me or Nekros/(Prime) is just too underwhelming without his augments? 

This is just my experience with Nekros back when I haven't got any augments for him. Now that I have Despoil and Shield of Shadows, he's really great.

His Soul Punch doesn't seemed to help in most situations but I'll admit, seeing an enemy flew away is really satisfying. At least, Ember's fireball has a little aoe. (I know Soul Punch also has a mild aoe but problem is, it's not affected by Power Strength) And what really bugs me about this ability is it's Description. A blow so powerful, it turns the enemy's very soul into a deadly projectile, damaging all in its path.

Right.......

Onto hiss Terrify. That, I had no problem with. IMO, one of the best abilities ever.

His Desecrate ability, one of the main reason people uses him in a mission. Since this ability only grants 50% chance (not 100) for dead enemies to drop additional loot, is kind of a waste of energy when you hit the other 50%, especially if energy is scarce situation. People who doesn't have the Despoil augment is really in for a dilemma. Unless I have a constant source of energy, I always find myself having the need to choose between using the desecrate ability or using the other abilities, considering how fast Desecrate burn through his energy. Or at least that's the problem I'm facing back when I haven't had Despoil.

And finally, Shadows of the Dead. Without the Shield of Shadows augment, I always find myself following where my Shadows go instead of the other way around as I need them as meat shield. Is like I'm the slave of my minions

CODEX

Nekros uses his dark powers to manipulate his enemies, both living and dead

This is Nekros, manipulator of souls.

Nekros possesses the battlefield, Tenno. Death is his playground.

-Lotus

 

I have tried every Warframe and Nekros is the only warframe that I felt that his augments are a must while the other warframe's augments felt like privileges. So my fellow Tenno, what do you lot think? I might have gotten something wrong. Should he be buff or not? Or just a QOL change?

DE makes terrible, horrendous...just awful abominations of ability descriptions. Dont even get me started on their warframe trailers....

Titania has an ability that is actually closer to soul punches description.

[CCamp88]

I find it funny the people that use despoil to be honest.. Ever hear of efficiency? lol. Sheild of shadows on the other hand.. totally a beast mod. Health conversion, pretty much made for nekros, Throw in a vitality, a little strength, duration an possibly equilibrium,and you got one of the hardiest frames in the game,

just my 2 cents

edit: forgot to mention but also,  like Ember and Frost's 1s, Nekros' soul punch, though does little (if any) damage, is  nice when you need to quickly knock down an enemy, (like a tech, bombard, napalm) who is about to nuke you while you're reloading. Considering its quick and doesn't interrupt reloading, not to mention never misses as you have to have an enemy targeted to use it, its very handy. Has save my butt quite a few times.

Edited February 23, 2017 by CCamp88

[rapt0rman]

Really I couldn't care less about despoil, shield of shadows is pretty useful though.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 minutes ago, CCamp88 said:

I find it funny the people that use despoil to be honest.. Ever hear of efficiency? lol. Sheild of shadows on the other hand.. totally a beast mod. Health conversion, pretty much made for nekros, Throw in a vitality, a little strength, duration an possibly equilibrium,and you got one of the hardiest frames in the game,

just my 2 cents

Funny?

Maybe im silly, but despoil costs nothing with rejuev on, and with equilibrium equipped at the same time, i dont have to ever worry about energy. Every ability in my kit becomes free when i activate desecrate.

And then of course you have zenurik as an option.

But maybe its just me.

Nekros and Nidus are the only frames i feel comfortable using with their base energy and no effieciency.

Pppssshhh, efficiency.

[CCamp88]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Funny?

Maybe im silly, but despoil costs nothing with rejuev on, and with equilibrium equipped at the same time, i dont have to ever worry about energy. Every ability in my kit becomes free when i activate desecrate.

And then of course you have zenurik as an option.

But maybe its just me.

Nekros and Nidus are the only frames i feel comfortable using with their base energy and no effieciency.

Pppssshhh, efficiency.

point was, Despoil definately not a needed mod 100% of the time. Refering to the OP

[V0ltHunter]

10 minutes ago, CCamp88 said:

I find it funny the people that use despoil to be honest.. Ever hear of efficiency? lol. Sheild of shadows on the other hand.. totally a beast mod. Health conversion, pretty much made for nekros, Throw in a vitality, a little strength, duration an possibly equilibrium,and you got one of the hardiest frames in the game,

just my 2 cents

edit: forgot to mention but also,  like Ember and Frost's 1s, Nekros' soul punch, though does little (if any) damage, is  nice when you need to quickly knock down an enemy, (like a tech, bombard, napalm) who is about to nuke you while you're reloading. Considering its quick and doesn't interrupt reloading, not to mention never misses as you have to have an enemy targeted to use it, its very handy. Has save my butt quite a few times.

So....... how do you sustain your energy pool if you don't use despoil?? And yes, I have efficiency on Nekros but the amount of dead enemy is desecrated (especially in endless mission) can't even keep up with my Zenurik passive(energy overflow, i think?).

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 minutes ago, CCamp88 said:

point was, Despoil definately not a needed mod 100% of the time. Refering to the OP

Despoil is not mandatory, but it makes nekros a completely diferent warframe when you mod around it.

As far as soul punch....soul punch is a lacking first ability. The least you could expect from it is that it would save you from one enemy. Refer to banshee's sonic boom, which does not need a target to cast, and hits multiple enrmies, leaving them sprawled out in front of you for finishers, or mags pull which is just the reverse of sonic boom (or vice versa) and then compare to soul punch.

[CCamp88]

17 minutes ago, V0ltHunter said:

So....... how do you sustain your energy pool if you don't use despoil?? And yes, I have efficiency on Nekros but the amount of dead enemy is desecrated (especially in endless mission) can't even keep up with my Zenurik passive(energy overflow, i think?).

rage is an option. But equilibrum with 175% effeciency,  is my normal go to.   2.5 energy per desecrate, a considerable energy pool (500 w r9 pflow)  and getting health orbs for energy, I tend to rarely run out. Chances are you get more health/energy orbs than you cost. . Plus with the high effeciency, you can keep your shadows up an healthy, use your 1 and 2 for your cc.   \

And it might just be me, but id rather run out of energy ( = pop a pizza or no more desecrate for a few seconds) than run out of health (= death, revive, or mission failed etc)..   Worst case with energy, you run out and cant desecrate. Worst case with health, you (help) kill yourself.

 

Edited February 23, 2017 by CCamp88

[CCamp88]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Despoil is not mandatory, but it makes nekros a completely diferent warframe when you mod around it.

As far as soul punch....soul punch is a lacking first ability. The least you could expect from it is that it would save you from one enemy. Refer to banshee's sonic boom, which does not need a target to cast, and hits multiple enrmies, leaving them sprawled out in front of you for finishers, or mags pull which is just the reverse of sonic boom (or vice versa) and then compare to soul punch.

oh dont get me wrong, soul punch isnt the greatest ability. But it has its uses (named above),... there are many, many other abilities out there that are alot more lacking in reward... tidal surge ( i think it is, hyrdroids wave rush thing which isnt even a 1st ability), rhinos1 (w/o augment),  *cough* Zephyr (pretty much all her skills).   Point is, even if it (soul punch) was a totally useless skill, which its not, there are plenty of other frames out there who need their end of the stick lengthened first. Many who have more than a single ability, more less a 1st ability which generally should be  weaker one (compared to its level unlocked at, energy cost, etc)

[V0ltHunter]

11 minutes ago, CCamp88 said:

rage is an option. But equilibrum with 175% effeciency,  is my normal go to.   2.5 energy per desecrate, a considerable energy pool (500 w r9 pflow)  and getting health orbs for energy, I tend to rarely run out. Chances are you get more health/energy orbs than you cost. . Plus with the high effeciency, you can keep your shadows up an healthy, use your 1 and 2 for your cc.   Might just be me, but id rather run out of energy (pop a pizza) than run out of health (death, revive, mission failed)

For me despoil gave me a lot of perks. Since Desecrate make dead enemies drop health orbs more than anything, it gave me the option of utilizing more on equilibrium since I'm constantly loosing health, i can always have energy cuz of Equilibrium. Most importantly, it Despoil lets me heavily utilize Health Conversion, making me a good tank myself even without my shadows.

Plus reaching 175% efficiency sacrifices duration, doesn't it?

But anyway, I see your point.

Edited February 23, 2017 by V0ltHunter

[Reifnir]

26 minutes ago, V0ltHunter said:

So....... how do you sustain your energy pool if you don't use despoil??

Frankly, the question I'd ask is how do you manage to ever run out of energy in a dedicated Desecrate build without Despoil? 

I mean, Streamline, Fleeting Expertise and Zenurik passive will provide you with so much energy you won't be able to spend it all, which covers vast majority of resource farming in groups. Add any Suda or Red Veil weapon for even more energy. The only scenario where energy would start decreasing is being surrounded by Energy Leech Eximus units, which begs the question of what the Hek is the rest of the group doing?

And if you want to push into solo endurance survival runs, just switch Zenurik for Naramon, grab a slash-based melee and slice away, for hours on end if you need. Unless you start channeling on every strike you'll maintain enough energy to never worry, and occasional energy pickups will cover everything else. 

Quote

Plus reaching 175% efficiency sacrifices duration, doesn't it?

And why would you want to build for duration anyway?

In a group scenario your job is to provide extra loot, those shadows aren't needed unless other 3 tenno are seriously slacking off. 

In a solo scenario Naramon invisibility keeps you alive for much, much longer than any amount of damage reduction from shadows, and since Naramon equals crazy crit slash procs, damage dealing is also covered. 

Edited February 23, 2017 by Reifnir

[CCamp88]

Just now, V0ltHunter said:

For me despoil gave me a lot of perks. Since Desecrate make dead enemies drop health orbs more than anything, it gave me the option of utilizing more on equilibrium since I'm constantly loosing health, i can always have energy cuz of Equilibrium. Most importantly, it Despoil lets me heavily utilize Health Conversion, making me a good tank myself even without my shadows.

Plus reaching 175% efficiency sacrifices duration, doesn't it?

Dont get me wrong, I agree despoil can have its pros,  but it has cons to.  Way i see it though, you cant desecrate if you are dead. One dies if they run out of health. Despoil lowers you health. Nekro's passive works for 10meters, Desecrate is generally further, meaning everything you desecrate you may not be getting health from. Just my thoughts. Again, i was just stating Despoil is far from a Absolutely-needed-100%- of- the- time mod.

As for 175% you can still have 105% duration ( or 115% duration with 170%eff) which is plenty for shadows imo.   you can easily recast it for 25 health. Provided your shadows are soaking up damage, having more duration after a point tends to have diminishing returns. Not to mention terrify. Ive found having too much duration on it can screw you. It tends to be used more in a reviving or Oh Crap moment. If it last forever, you then have to go hunt down what you terrfied. Can hurt in a survival, as well as be agrivating

[V0ltHunter]

1 minute ago, Reifnir said:

Frankly, the question I'd ask is how do you manage to ever run out of energy in a dedicated Desecrate build without Despoil? 

I mean, Streamline, Fleeting Expertise and Zenurik passive will provide you with so much energy you won't be able to spend it all, which covers vast majority of resource farming in groups. Add any Suda or Red Veil weapon for even more energy. The only scenario where energy would start decreasing is being surrounded by Energy Leech Eximus units, which begs the question of what the Hek is the rest of the group doing?

And if you want to push into solo endurance survival runs, just switch Zenurik for Naramon, grab a slash-based melee and slice away, for hours on end if you need. Unless you start channeling on every strike you'll maintain enough energy to never worry, and occasional energy pickups will cover everything else. 

Oh. Thank You. That clears it up

[CCamp88]

Here's pretty much my build. And for running long survivals, its hard to beat having a nekros in the group-from my experience. Many of times i play him, my teammates go "oh thats cool, ill be able to play whoever i want then", meaning they can play someone squishy if they want

http://prntscr.com/ec8r6f

^ my build there, will often swap out the stretch for equilibrium. depending on the map, how long we're going, if farming or not, etc 

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

14 minutes ago, CCamp88 said:

oh dont get me wrong, soul punch isnt the greatest ability. But it has its uses (named above),... there are many, many other abilities out there that are alot more lacking in reward... tidal surge ( i think it is, hyrdroids wave rush thing which isnt even a 1st ability), rhinos1 (w/o augment),  *cough* Zephyr (pretty much all her skills).   Point is, even if it (soul punch) was a totally useless skill, which its not, there are plenty of other frames out there who need their end of the stick lengthened first. Many who have more than a single ability, more less a 1st ability which generally should be  weaker one (compared to its level unlocked at, energy cost, etc)

I think we are now trying to accomadate DE, by not overloading them with too much...

But....you do know Nekros just got a rework, right? They had ample opportunity to adress it then, but they didnt, because they dont see their abilities as lacking. Refer to DE's statements on shock, even with its bugs they wont fix.

There is no frame that is on a higher priority than any other, because if DE actually aknowledged these things as problems, theyd fix it themselves.

Right now its a do or die thing for me, i make volt posts, dont even bother with nekros. "This needs to be shoved down their throats until they respond saying they just dont want to, or delete the frame from the game".

Because they already had the time to make it better, they just didnt.

[Rheoidegen]

1 hour ago, VinDanger said:

Shield of shadows is the very definition of a mandatory mod and it requires so much power strength to actually take full advantage of

I, as a Nekros main, can't agree with that in any sense.

 

As for the main post-- Nekros without augments is (in my opinion), a good frame, although he's quite a bit harder to play. Despoil is the only augment that I use (unless I'm taking a new person through the star chart or just feel like playing around, in which case I use Soul Survivor and Creeping Terrify, respectively), and that's just for the ease of keeping his energy and health pools topped off. You can definitely play him without it, but it's just a QoL mod. As for Shield of Shadows-- I've never really used it, honestly (tested and played around with it, yes. Used it, no). If you're going for a tanky build on him, QT, Rage, Primed Flow, Vitality & Redirection, Health Conversion, and Despoil. Those will get you far further than SoS will, at least in my personal experiences.

 

But build to your preference, if he's too bland without augments, then slap them on. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited February 23, 2017 by Rheoidegen
Adding slightly more context.

[CCamp88]

1 minute ago, Rheoidegen said:

I, as a Nekros main, can't agree with that in any sense.

 

As for the main post-- Nekros without augments is (in my opinion), a good frame, although he's quite a bit harder to play. Despoil is the only augment that I use (unless I'm taking a new person through the star chart or just feel like playing around, in which case I use Soul Survivor and Creeping Terrify, respectively), and that's just for the ease of keeping his energy and health pools topped off. You can definitely play him without it, but it's just a QoL mod. As for Shield of Shadows-- I've never really used it, honestly. If you're going for a tanky build on him, QT, Rage, Primed Flow, Vitality & Redirection, Health Conversion, and Despoil. Those will get you far further than SoS will, at least in my personal experiences.

 

But build to your preference, if he's too bland without augments, then slap them on. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You should give the SoS a whirl sometime if you want tanky build. 90%+ damage reductions nots something to overlook.  

[Reifnir]

That said, Nekros *does* have a rather unimpressive kit if you try to make him anything other than a walking loot booster. 

The nuke is unimpressive at best, and if your situation is so bad that you *need* insta-revives, you're better off extracting already since you're likely in over your head.

Terrify is rather meh far as CC goes, marginally useful when you need to pop a Life Support or revive someone who's surrounded. Problem is, being in any of those situations with a Nekros in group mean you're doing something wrong in the first place, as both running out of life support and dying while walking on health orbs mean that thing are not going well at all. 

Desecrate... Well, we all love the extra loot, nuff said. Combat potential is near zero, though. 

And finally, SoTD. Yay, buffed minions! Except that any damage your Shadows can deal falls off too quickly, buffed or not. Enemies just don't deal enough damage to overcome their own armor scaling in high level runs, and augment-provided damage reduction, while nice isn't THAT great when you consider that a level 120 Heavy Gunner can rip even Inaros apart in a matter of seconds if left unattended, so borderline useless un-augmented and mediocre with Shield of Shadows eating your mod slot. 

 

[Rheoidegen]

Just now, CCamp88 said:

You should give the SoS a whirl sometime if you want tanky build. 90%+ damage reductions nots something to overlook.  

I've played around with it quite a few times. Rarely ever do I need Nekros to be more tanky than with my default build that I use, but I generally run Void in my spare time so I've always got an ancient on hand, which gives the 90% damage reduction as well. I chuckle at the mod because it just doesn't capitalize on the things that I like about Nekros. To each their own, no?