Do you Think there's a Skill Gap in warframe ?

[DxAdder]

Knowledge Gap exists but it's takes little skill to play the gave in PvE mode (it's a 3rd person FPS 100% easy mode)

 

[S0V3REiGN]

There is definitely skill gap in PvE. I have a pretty active clan but I still end up doing most of my missions alone, in fact for almost 8 months straight I played entirely on pugs alone when my old clan died out. This is where the misconception that mastery ranks means anything in this game but it doesn't. I have been on missions where I ended up doing 32 teammate revives on a sortie defense and on missions where everything melts all around me. Some players know what they are doing and others join hoping to be carried.

Edited March 2, 2017 by S0V3REiGN

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

If there's a skill gap it's between players knowledge of the modding system

[Kaotyke]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

I think the question that I'm asking everyone is a hard one because there definitely is a skill gap .. but it's just hard to recognize. Like was you getting away to restore your shields you playing skillfully and dodging well or you just pressing two buttons wildly trying to get away. & is there even a difference between the too 

No, I was in the Corpus Kuva Flood in Jupiter, in that title set that can go 4 ways with stairs and a lava pit drop in the middle, the small one. I was aiming at the pillars, rolling backwards mid-air (looks awkwards as hek making a handstand in the air) so I dont fall into the pit and return under fire in the falling recovery animation, rolling to the sides also in mid air (very awkward animation), wall-hopping... the only thing I didnt do was wall-latch.

I'm not sure if it was skill or panic because I did that on something of an auto-pilot while saying "Oh ! Oh !" in my head.

I do that in FPS games too, I panic and then do something crazy like: Spray the M4, kill the dude, throw the M4 away, grab the P90 he had and kill the other guy, change to pistol and kill the 3rd all while jumping around and taking fire... the funny thing about all this is how I react IRL: I keep contorting my body with the character and look like I have a scratch on the back and I'm trying not to use my hands.

I honestly dont know at some points...

But its hard to know at this game where the average player can curb-stomp almost anything the game throws at them and when level gets high enough: any mistake is punished by death Downed state.

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

32 minutes ago, Kaotyke said:

No, I was in the Corpus Kuva Flood in Jupiter, in that title set that can go 4 ways with stairs and a lava pit drop in the middle, the small one. I was aiming at the pillars, rolling backwards mid-air (looks awkwards as hek making a handstand in the air) so I dont fall into the pit and return under fire in the falling recovery animation, rolling to the sides also in mid air (very awkward animation), wall-hopping... the only thing I didnt do was wall-latch.

I'm not sure if it was skill or panic because I did that on something of an auto-pilot while saying "Oh ! Oh !" in my head.

I do that in FPS games too, I panic and then do something crazy like: Spray the M4, kill the dude, throw the M4 away, grab the P90 he had and kill the other guy, change to pistol and kill the 3rd all while jumping around and taking fire... the funny thing about all this is how I react IRL: I keep contorting my body with the character and look like I have a scratch on the back and I'm trying not to use my hands.

I honestly dont know at some points...

But its hard to know at this game where the average player can curb-stomp almost anything the game throws at them and when level gets high enough: any mistake is punished by death Downed state.

Either Battlefield 4 or csgo lol & yeah I know what you mean but that definitely sounded like skill . Maybe someday things will be different and the game will have some genuine challenges 

[Intactus]

In this game, the skill is a choice. It's one of the playstyles available.
You can either dive in and fight "fair" with some of the frames and weapons or you can choose to blast away blinded enemies primed by nova, from the safe of a frost globe.

Now, as others have said. The skill of the individual players mostly comes apparent in levels where enemies become an actual threat and/or something really goes wrong with the run.

Here is a piece of really cheesy vid i made for entirely different purpose but i think it pretty much explains my point.
You could run the same stages with as much cheese as you want rendering the enemy irrelevant altogether. If you like that.
Personally, i get most joy out of the game when an enemy can kill you just as easily as you can him, if you let your guard down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czLaTjGvflI

The best part of the game imho was the beginning, where the startchart was actually a scary place where some enemies were able to oneshot you and you really had to watch your step. (Or maybe i just did the planet in wrong order. Dunno.) No idea how that works with the new startchart thou.


 

[SilverMarketer]

It depends on your definition of skill. 

If you mean "Mechanical" skills then there is actually quite a few. The mechanical skills in this game mostly consist of reflex and speed, in which I mean how accurate you are at firing at the enemy, how quick you can aim and fire, how good you are at parkouring (Cause you wouldn't want to be stuck in the middle of a Bombard or Nully orgy) and how well you do in a team. While these might seem like simple and easy things to do there actually is quite a learning curve to be efficient at each of them to the average gamer, atleast to do them well consistently on a regular basis.

If you mean "Tactical" skills then there is a whole lot. You need to have map awareness, meaning being aware of where your friends and enemies are (So you don't die too far from them, they don't die too far from you etc.) and knowing which path to take (I actually have seen a few people get lost because they didn't realise there was a door below or above). You also need to be good at decision-making, meaning knowing when and where to use an ability or weapon (Especially for sorties with elemental resistances), what loadout/build you need to bring with you (The most important skill to have in this game in my opinion, best example is with sorties, such as ones where you don't have any shields so it's better to take out redirection and replace it with another mod, or use a frame with high health and armor), deciding whether you need to move to another room or hold out in (Mostly only need for Survival and Interception, in my experience).

Apart from skills, there is also alot to learn in the game, such as what mods works better for a frame/weapon. There's also more macro-management things like knowing which mission or mission types drops the mod/blueprint/resource that you need. I would also say that there is abit of a learning curve when it comes to Trading just like most mmos (As in, you need to be abit smart on which prices are acceptable and which aren't, so you don't waste your plat needlessly).

So yes, I guess i'm arguing for the side of this game does take skill though the skill floor is rather low, the ceiling for it is actually much higher.

[(PSN)HaterReplicator]

Remember the Thousand Cuts event? The last mission in the event has you using Melee only, and only 25 energy. You had decent level enemies: Maniacs, Bailiffs, Scorpions, Rollers.

I personally enjoyed that part of the event. Felt like you had to be skilled to actually make it.

[JalakBali]

Yes.

So much that it's rare seeing a player using a not popular (but actually effective) frame, using all of their abilities instead of the one 'easy' ability and be effective in battle. Like a Rhino who never used Roar or a Loki who never Disarm. There is a clear divide in skill levels even in PvE.

[(XBOX)Rey Za BurreI]

Yes there is a skill gap and what skill in PvP? The PvP takes skill now? If you think that takes skill play some MoT survival solo for more than an hour. Those braindead enemies would surely want to have a conversation with you. lmao

[INC3NSUS]

Well I have seen a definite "gap" in tactics, however that being said this game doesn't need tactics on a lower interception.  Where I see the skill gap is sorties. I am not perfect, two months or so into this game I can get lost.  But my tactics and knowing my frame is damn decent.  But here are some examples of what I have seen.  Someone mentioned mechanical skill I do belive that can be a factor, I am old and broke as S#&$. I am normally a few seconds behind my much younger (not broke) buddy but since I always try to keep up with him I am not as slow as some.  But you can be slightly mechanically deficient if you are tactically superior. 

You're on a high level interception and you're the teams Frost, you don't leave your point to bubble the rest between waves but you do for the mod and loose your point during a wave.

Ok great you're a vauban, know your map and you haul &#!, lets say you left behind 3 who may have skills but didnt mod say for friction or bullet jump or hell it's a new map.  Yeah you got parkour skills but staying with your squad may have been better.  Ok so now the trinity dies...

OR you haul &#! on a rescue mission but you leave your Limbo behind.  Who was there to protect the asset.

I have seen some Great players on Sorties, and a few that should stay at the lower ranks if all they care about is their own kills and affinity. 

Edited March 3, 2017 by BlizArmy

[Nazrethim]

17 hours ago, Beggining said:

I think in PvE, the 'skill gap' is our loadout: what frames, weapons, and mods we have.

That's "Gear Check" not "Skill gap".

 

17 hours ago, (PS4)Akuma_Asura_ said:

I for one think no there isn't much of a skill gap, seeing how we're fighting brain dead enemies that only have 1 or 2 options of action, have horrible accuracy, and are super slow compared to us. That's what lead me to becoming burnt out the first time I started playing warframe . I lasted about a year and 8 months, I have now found new love in conclave.

But that's beside the point, do you think there is a genuine skill gap between players in PVE?

(not trying to insult anyone. I'm just looking for people's honest opinions)

PvE is a skill check initially, when you have jack to actually face the enemies, as your arsenal grows, the skill required diminishes and eventually hits a brick wall and the gear check sets in. The ONLY gamemode where skill actually matters as you advance is Conclave, because everything is (mostly) balanced and gear alone can't win a match.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

from what I've seen, there's 2 kinds of people: hopelessly bad, and competent. I usually get given the former as squadmates. that's why it's just better to go solo.

[Tens3i]

20 hours ago, KIREEK said:

Remember, it's the mechanical difficulty that messes up with players, not the mathematical difficulty.

Sadly weapons and mods don't compenssate for the obvious, some of those things are not learned after the tutorial and are dragged into high level gameplay, such as:

• players still need help with builds or don't know if a certain mod is good or not (riven mods expose the issue even further)
• players lack options when dealing with a unusual situation, not because the game doesn't have them, but because their lack of knowledge causes it, an example is nullifiers and all the ways you can deal with them, since some players only know how to deal with them 1 way, all it takes is a sniper only sortie and they are screwed.
• players that lack interest in getting better, so they do a sortie rescue the same way they 1st did the rescue, by using the front door, taking more time, hacking, possibly dying and letting enemies in for those who are competent.
• Very slow tileset progression (lacks interest in parkour manouvers),
• Remember that being fast doesn't mean you are better, many super fast players still use the front door on rescue sorties, they are good when moving from point A to B, but killing, CC, creating a diversion or anything else to help other players is severaly lacking and only gets worse when not even in the rescue room they provide any usefullness
• Jumping into missions unprepared (no gear, no tought into focus, weapons, builds) and hopes for the best, will often quit when other players can't help much
• Not reading sortie conditions, now knowing mission type, unable to identify tilesets by looking at the image, not knowing the faction.
• will often ask questions on builds or watch videos hoping to be as effective as some youtube players, who have in some cases, dreadfull gameplay wise compared to the players that do things on another level with the same unlocked content, in other words, they expect others to tell them how to be good instead of trully being good.
• By asking average players on how to do things, they will most certainly only go as far as the average player while lacking basics (minimap, hud, visuals or audio are examples) and so the player will often find it odd that some players are so much better compared to them.
• Lack of experience and lack of basic mechanics, examples are plenty, marking marked content on the minimap, marking kuva siphons in an unmissable path to an objective (makes sense on spy or if you didn't find it, but not if you will find it by moving forward), confusing magnetic hazard in a sortie core ship sabotage by asking if it's the ice hazard, this last one means the player lacks visual experience (no enemies comming vs enemies comming to take something down), lack of ui experience (takes 2 missions to understand that the timer goes at different speeds depending on the hazard), lack of minimap usage (4 wps on cores vs 1 wp on terminal) and audio defficiency (lotus speaks to identify the hazard comming), meaning it's not 1 mistake, it's a disaster of a player that is playing a sortie mission
• Insists of doing things his way especially if it's related to laziness (no interest in upgrading or learning the modding system, staying afk, expecting others to do the content for them, no actual interest in the gameplay of the actual game)
• Poor results in profile, especially large ammount of quits and not all that high mission success rate, meaning the player is a liability and unreliable
• Inefficient gameplay is also present, players that do less effort to kill will often get way less in missions, while great players will make missions seem way to easy and the rewards are insane compared to the time it took to clear the mission.

 

I think i mentioned everything, if you place a wp on a kuva siphon for example, you already know where you stand in terms of skill, same for rescues by using the front door, not reading sortie conditions, now knowing how to deal with nullifiers, asking for builds or if a riven mod is good or not, that alone covers a ton of players who are in the very best average and in the very worst, dreadfull

 

If only people could understand all of that, and it shows obviously in Excavation mission when really few people in Public environment acutally DEFEND their excavators AND not overcharging them for no reasons. People sometimes play with the brain off.

Furthermore, the actual parkour is skill related. Most of the time, players think Loki is the fastest so they want you to take it for spies. You can be fast with every warframe and it takes some practice on parkour.
 

20 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

They just don't have the mods.

Take any MR 23 with their X forma Nova, and see how well they can do speed portals in LoR. Even I am not good at it. I know very few amazing nova players and it is a skill gap. Most content is a gear or mods gap, but you can have 9 forma on nova with all the right mods and not be good at it.

 

I can't agree more with @--Q--Voltage. I play daily with Nova in my squads or clan squads. Amazing Nova players are really rare. In public missions, I want to facepalm myself when I see a Nova never using Worm hole or not being fast enough.

[(XBOX)Senor Twix]

22 hours ago, (PS4)Regiampiero said:

Skills can be learned hence skill-gap. Some pick it up quicker than others and that in itself is a skill, so I don't know what we're arguing about here. 

You're missing my entire point here.

It is more of a knowledge gap, rather than a skill gap in this game. The skill gap exists, but there is more of a knowledge gap about this game.

Like I said, you give a low MR a Frost/Prime, and put them in an excavation mission, they can outperform a higher MR. There are MR21's I know that barely know anything about the game and have all of the top tier weapons, because all they know is "Hey, if I get this weapon to rank 30, that increases my Mastery Rank".

Apparently in this community, it means since you're a really high mastery rank, you must know what you're doing and you're highly skilled". That is not always true. There are MR6's that run Nyx or Nova in raids and know what they are doing, compared to an MR17 that knows "Oh I just gotta use Molecular Prime" and so forth.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Because players will always have varying performance levels there will probably always be some skill gap.

The size of which will depend on the player, playstyle, tactics, and their preferences and is normal for every game.

The problem isn't (really) skill caps or gear checks though...

It's that players are incented to follow metas... and all metas aren't equal.

Cheesy players:

• Make more money
• Get more stuff
• Clear rep faster

Than players who don't.

And because this play tactic in incented— it's encouraged. It becomes prevalent enough that you begin to see it every place including places where it probably shouldn't be. 

It's at this point that the meta becomes a handicap for skill.

PvP(any) is always going to be different —provided its' balanced— and will show off skill (modding balance, tactical, or twitch) deficits more readily. 

It's why there is a generally held belief that hardcore PvP'ers suck in Raids, and hardcore Raiders tend to suck in PvP scenarios that isn't group based. It's not true, but it isn't false either.

[(XBOX)VexionZ II]

On ‎02‎/‎03‎/‎2017 at 6:28 PM, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

With an Ember or Equinox in a low level mission?  More often than I'd like to admit.

Level 100+?  Frost, Trinity, Banshee, and Nova.  Want to go more than ten hours?  Sure, why not?

Zero...skill....

Frost Trinity Banshe & Nova 10hours? tell me how that setup plays out for you when your 7hours in good luck. if your refering by going 10hours in a survival good luck with that also its capped at 9hrs in the same with Solo survival caps at 5hr mark to near the 6hour mark. im a vetran player i have been there done that team survival long runs indeed require "Skill" i'll explain why "Communication" "Knowing the Map" "Knowing the Spawns" & "Locking down The Map" Etc now if i was to jump in a game with new gen players they wouldn't have the sleightest idea what im on about they wouldn't have the setup i require etc. i did a 2man 9hr4 on MOT the frames we used 2ivaras they dont take skill! but knowing how to fully master a frame knowing all the ins & outs etc locking down enemys requires skill thats just my opinion however if you think its 0skill to do 10hours be my guest & try it tell me how u do