Nyx Assimilate fix is a massive nerf

[Treebiter]

Before the change, I used Assimilate in combination with Ack & Brunt and Guardian Derision to support my team. Now I can't risk being close to them half the time. I'd also spend half my time reviving fallen team mates surrounded by enemies.

In fact, I'm now less of a team player than ever. I pre-warn everyone not to shoot when I'm reviving, and if they ignore me repeatedly I leave them to die in order to save myself. Doesn't make me feel very good about myself.

[Sm0kiT]

I came back to playing with Nyx a bit after the new augment got first released... just to find out it's useless now.

Everything important has already been said, so I'm just gonna say: PLS DE for the love of Nyx and a once great Augment, please revert/remove friendly fire on Assimilate. Thank You

[BTez]

19 hours ago, Roxxarus said:

Even through your point, there is indeed a good reason to take a second look and probably a second fix/change for Absorb/Assimilate. Many people see Assimilate as a sort of separation or unique feature of Nyx that makes her different from what she normally is. People used it to survive high pressure and cover allies, tank shots to revive allies, maybe even do mission/objective tasks without dying (such as capturing a target, hacking a cipher, etc.). According to my own interpretation of your statement, however, it absolutely MUST be a team-based ability. Not only does that contradict many abilities on several other Warframes (Why is Mesa's Shatter Shield not for the entire team? Why is Trinity's Link not for the entire team?), but it would also bring up another issue: why is DE ignoring an ability that should clearly be by, for, and from the team? 

DE has nerfed the independent tank role of Assimilate in teams, or DE has never even taken a second glance at how Absorb/Assimilate isn't even good for teams to begin with. What I personally think is that not all abilities need to be seen from a team aspect. If all abilities are to be seen through a team aspect, then several abilities for even more Warframes would suddenly have a vital flaw: "they are not good for teams." However, I digress; the crux of the issue is that not only does this change bring up a handful of questions, issues, or blatant changes in gameplay, but it's that DE has forgotten about it after not even half a glance.

Well said. DigiExt has openly admitted in the weapon touchups in this patch cycle that things have been implemented and the resulting adoption rate by the community was such as there was a clear need to reconsider some elements on those given weapons. For the sake of Nyx (you know, the main antagonist frame from the original Warframe game, she deserves all the love DigiExt has in the same light as Excalibur) I am hopeful a sudden dramatic outcry will do the same. She is in my not so humble opinion in need of reconsideration... as has been pointed out multiple times and places in this thread so I will refrain from repeating them.

[BTez]

Bad forums! No double posting!

Edited March 29, 2017 by BTez
Somehow double posted.

[(PSN)krumlin]

I've played with assimilate a bit more with void survival and a sortie corpus survival. Weird things began to happen. At one point team damage had no effect, I even walked into a bunch of simulor balls and they didn't effect me at all. while other times I would lose all of my energy in about 3 seconds. There might have been a zenistar disc nearby or something.This is with prime flow and max efficiency.

I've come to the conclusion that assimilate simply doesn't work as intended right now. It's too unpredictable. But I find myself extremely frustrated with team members, even though I really shouldn't  blame them.

[(PSN)ghinellil]

2 hours ago, (PS4)krumlin said:

I've played with assimilate a bit more with void survival and a sortie corpus survival. Weird things began to happen. At one point team damage had no effect, I even walked into a bunch of simulor balls and they didn't effect me at all. while other times I would lose all of my energy in about 3 seconds. There might have been a zenistar disc nearby or something.This is with prime flow and max efficiency.

I've come to the conclusion that assimilate simply doesn't work as intended right now. It's too unpredictable. But I find myself extremely frustrated with team members, even though I really shouldn't  blame them.

I tried Nyx with a friend, and she was fine. Then in a sortie all my energy gone in a moment. Honestly i don't know how this "fix" work.

Have the same feeling like using Quick Thinking. 

[MadHatter42]

21 hours ago, Treebiter said:

Before the change, I used Assimilate in combination with Ack & Brunt and Guardian Derision to support my team. Now I can't risk being close to them half the time. I'd also spend half my time reviving fallen team mates surrounded by enemies.

In fact, I'm now less of a team player than ever. I pre-warn everyone not to shoot when I'm reviving, and if they ignore me repeatedly I leave them to die in order to save myself. Doesn't make me feel very good about myself.

I feel you, But i tend to act more altruistic (masochist) every time i can, and sadly the outcome is mainly watching hundreds of energy getting drained in five seconds or so.
That leads to A. Being attacked and downed myself or B. Avoiding any form of engage until my energy rise up again.

But i'm honestly getting tired of fearing my own team mates or being afraid of having the trollable frame status. DE just forgot us, they could AT LEAST say something, there's no reason to be so quiet about this nerf. I see players here, posting every two days or so, showing interest. Is it too much for DE to ask one of their forum guys to say "hey Nyx players! We are looking into it, you are not forgotten"?

I suppose that the main alternative to Nyx is Loki, right?

[MikuBlade]

What saddens me the most is not even the fix itself, but rather lack of proper response from DE. It just feels like playing some silence game. Granted, DE has much to do atm, that is true. With the release of U20 we've seen a lot of bugs and things that need to take care of. UI potato upscale, no relics rewards, some server issues just to name a few. 5 hotfixes so far and many things not adressed yet. But when some thread reaches 19 pages and op has over 260 upvotes ain't that a sign of a popular issue among playerbase? Ain't such issues should have at least some occasional responses from DE? I'm not asking you to abandon all other things and focus on unfixing Nyx fix. Yes, I'd love to, but I don't think it works this way. Instead I'd very much appreciate at least some comments from DE. I don't think I'm the only one. Give us some info/updates/comments, don't just drop it and leave it like this. Thank you.

[Mabitude]

I have a feeling Quick Thinking ain´t functioning well either, at least not together with Nyx and the augment. When I´m too late to bring up Absorb before taking heavy damage, I simply die, despite that my energy is still full and untouched.

[(PSN)ceejmr333]

I think it would be cool if there was a custom toggle for this ability whether the power would absorb friendly fire or not.  Granted, I doubt it would be a realistic possibly to have a toggle, it's just a thought I had that would tailor to people who prefer to tank, and also to people who like to have the extra power from the friendly fire.  

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

Devstream 90 was just announced. Need to blow up the feed with questions!!

[(XBOX)ShyStephinity]

Yes i think that Nyx needs to be able to toggle the ally damage absorb. This would allow Nyx players to play exactly like they deserve to play. Their way!

[Mabitude]

21 hours ago, (PS4)ceejmr333 said:

I think it would be cool if there was a custom toggle for this ability whether the power would absorb friendly fire or not.  Granted, I doubt it would be a realistic possibly to have a toggle, it's just a thought I had that would tailor to people who prefer to tank, and also to people who like to have the extra power from the friendly fire.  

 

15 hours ago, (Xbox One)ShyStephinity said:

Yes i think that Nyx needs to be able to toggle the ally damage absorb. This would allow Nyx players to play exactly like they deserve to play. Their way!

Yeah, I think that could be handy. And DE has worked with similar mechanism before. Just look at Ivaras 1st ability, who actually have 4 different abilities in a single one. It would be possible to make a toggle on/off for Nyx´ Absorb as well. I also think this should be visible for players too to know whether their shots are going to get through the bubble or not

[row49382]

On 3/10/2017 at 10:15 AM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Luckily I hadn't finished the Sortie yet and there is a Defense mission up - this sets the field for one of my favourite Nyx Assimilate strategies. Hopping in a Defense Shotgun-Only Sortie with my 'Terminator Nyx' to protect the Ally after this change was the perfect testing ground for me - especially in Public matchmaking where you're never sure what others will bring to the table.

I'm conflicted about what I found - I expected to see the sky falling, especially with a full Public team with Shotguns! With my Assimilate build, I was still able to maintain Godmode Assimilate for each wave, stopping in between to hustle for drops and stock up on energy. I only removed my '4' in combat once to run to a fallen Squad mate to quickly reactivate it.

When the final Wave hit things got a little hairy - as they should - and I had to adapt with quick movements and Energy restock, only losing my Absorb once.

Is more testing necessary? Absolutely - that goes for everyone in this thread who has claimed we've ruined something that they themselves have not tried out.

It has been a while since Nyx has gone under any serious discussion so we'll see how far we can open this door based on the constructive feedback that takes place.

An excuse to play even more Nyx though? Sign me up.


 

I feel the biggest issue with this is that there will be players who are downed, or who are trolls that will accidentally or purposely hit your bubble too much and pop it. This is especially true for a max range bubble to shield the defense target. 

This isn't an issue that the player itself can control and thus seems to limit her based on the coordination of your team. I'm not sure if I am ok with adapting to this play style. I have played Nyx since the Assimilate change and rarely play her now. If I do, it is only with my clan or friends that I trust, and even then, they can accidentally pop my bubble when I go to revive them -- or in some cases, they pop it to troll and then apologize right after. Usually when the mission is early on and there is little risk.

I think Assimilate worked fine the way it did and should be changed back because of the limitations it puts on her gameplay. 

[GOLANX]

all this assimilate salt, as a Chaos Nyx im not really hurt by it, Chaos does it all, i'm more upset about her passive reducing chaoses damage.

assimilate not taking friendly fire was a bug because it wasnt intended or part of the base ability, pls dont ask for a reversion ask that ally damage not effect the base ability and thus assimilate. ofc the biggest problem i see is Nyx was made before sorties or trials, in that context absorb was designed as a damage ability, and allwing our allies to charge it up with a Braton was seen as a good thing, absorb unlike Chaos could not stand the test of time, redesigning absorb would solve the issues that stem from that.

hopefully Nyx will get a rework. i would much rather see her be a full telepath than half telepath half telekenetic. i would rather see telekenisis in the next new frame and update where we can pick up enemies, and objects, and throw them, pull a magneto moment and turn enemies weapons on themselves, and yes add an ability that makes you immune to damage, agro everything, and pull their bullets into the rift and somehow idk how this makes any sense, throw melee damage into the rift and spit it back out on deactivation.

ok seriously i can understand bullets but melee enemies arn't disarmed when they attack you, and they can hit you to store damage, that part of the ability never made sense regardless of the misplaced limbo ability

[Luzzu]

2 hours ago, GOLANX said:

all this assimilate salt, as a Chaos Nyx im not really hurt by it, Chaos does it all, i'm more upset about her passive reducing chaoses damage.

assimilate not taking friendly fire was a bug because it wasnt intended or part of the base ability, pls dont ask for a reversion ask that ally damage not effect the base ability and thus assimilate. ofc the biggest problem i see is Nyx was made before sorties or trials, in that context absorb was designed as a damage ability, and allwing our allies to charge it up with a Braton was seen as a good thing, absorb unlike Chaos could not stand the test of time, redesigning absorb would solve the issues that stem from that.

hopefully Nyx will get a rework. i would much rather see her be a full telepath than half telepath half telekenetic. i would rather see telekenisis in the next new frame and update where we can pick up enemies, and objects, and throw them, pull a magneto moment and turn enemies weapons on themselves, and yes add an ability that makes you immune to damage, agro everything, and pull their bullets into the rift and somehow idk how this makes any sense, throw melee damage into the rift and spit it back out on deactivation.

ok seriously i can understand bullets but melee enemies arn't disarmed when they attack you, and they can hit you to store damage, that part of the ability never made sense regardless of the misplaced limbo ability

It wasn't intended to ignore ally damage, as you said, but why then did it take so long to "fix" what was not intended? It was released in November of 2016 and only after 5 months was it observed that Assimilate wasn't working as intended? You are right that her kit came out well before the end-game content we now have; Nyx in general needs her own rework and I think that fact is coming up after seeing how she's not holding up as well anymore.

 

One could say the numbers need some tuning, but I agree with you in that her kit is just dated and needs something new. She's been seen as a one-trick for so long due to Chaos's high utility. Only after Assimilate came out did her kit seem to open up a bit, but now it's no longer viable. Her 1 is decent, but not enough to help out too much in higher levels and certainly not unique in the face of Nekros. Her 2 has negligible damage and only becomes slightly useful (but still outclassed by other Frames) using the augment for it. 3 clearly outshines the rest of her abilities and retains its uniqueness and utility at any point of any mission. And lastly, her 4 has seen many changes and this latest one has made Assimilate Nyx significantly weaker the stronger her allies are. 

 

tl;dr Nyx's kit is too reliant on Augments to be of any use. Her 1 and 2 are not unique or particularly useful, even with their Augments. 3 is the only consistently good ability Nyx has had and it still remains unique with all the other Frames that have come out since Nyx. 4 is just a mess at this point.

[Treebiter]

@GOLANX

DE might have intended for Assimilate to take damage from friendly fire from the start, but this was certainly never made clear to the player base, and everyone was caught by surprise when the 'fix' was announced.

I'd argue that the original form was perfectly acceptable as an Augment, and that there was no reason to tie the behaviour of absorb to Assimilate. Augments alter the base skill, and not taking friendly fire would be quite acceptable in this regard.

But the biggest issue is the disparity between solo and group performance. The fix has nerfed the augment when playing with others, which if not DE's intention is still undeniably the outcome. Except however, when playing solo, when all the previous utility remains. This lack of consistency is the real elephant in the dojo. If it's a nerf it should restrict the skill's use in all situations. If it isn't a nerf, then the utility should be equal across all play modes.

 

 

[Cat__Nap]

32 minutes ago, Treebiter said:

 

I'd argue that the original form was perfectly acceptable as an Augment, and that there was no reason to tie the behaviour of absorb to Assimilate. Augments alter the base skill, and not taking friendly fire would be quite acceptable in this regard.

The worst part is, Assimilate now makes the skill worse than the base ability if we use it how DE apparently intends for it to be used. It cuts the range of the explosion in half, so even if our bubble gets popped in less than 5 seconds, it's much less effective than base Absorb would be.

And honestly, the ability to walk around for 5 whole seconds before your teammates explode your invulnerability is no longer a perk. You could sit in Absorb for those 5 seconds, get the bubble popped, and the explosion would be much larger. The augment literally doesn't improve the ability anymore.

But of course, this is assuming you're actually going to use it for damage. Which no one does...because it doesn't do damage, having the worst damage type in the game and a low damage amount. Thanks, DE.

Still haven't used Nyx since trying her out after the change. They neutered our ability to use Assimilate at all unless solo, and Irradiating Disarm Loki is way better for CC. Makes me sad; Assimilate Nyx was one of my favorite playstyles. DE obviously doesn't intend to revert the change though - look how long we've gone since Rebecca first tested it, with no further comments. They intend to keep her broken.

[KX297]

DE still hasn't responded or altered their original change? Maybe they never will.

It's looking that way. 

The lack of responses is what makes me so sad. Even if they said something like;

"Hey, we aren't going to change Assimilate. Instead, we are going to change the ability Absorb",

I would be happy.

But no. Nothing.

I use Nyx in solo now, and other frames for public lobbies. Assimilate is only good in solo missions now, and other frames CC better than her without the downsides the rest of her kit comes with.

Honestly, Assimilate gave her a fun niche position for me to play her in, and without it, I really don't have any reason to play her at all. 

How unfortunate. 

DE, in the future, when adressing bugs with respect to Warframe abilities, please consider how they actually affect the ability, and whether they are a boon or detrimental. Then go about fixing them with that in mind.

I feel that this 'fix' was poorly carried out, not well thought about, and resulted in us losing a very fun and interseting way to play an underplayed Warframe. 

Goodbye Nyx. I suppose I'll revisit her when they alter her abilities. Until then, looks like I'll just store her with the other Warframes in need of help.

[Mabitude]

I´m unsure if I would like a Nyx rework. Been playing her almost entirely in 2 years, and it makes me quite used to her usage of abilities. Nyx is the only actual frame that fits me, so if there would be an incoming rework, I hope it won´t mess up her. I mean, reworks have never hurted either Limbo or Saryn, its the opposite actually, but I´m quite scared if theres coming one up for Nyx..

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

So this is a thing..I think we should all post here, because "friendly fire draining energy in 3 secs" is a bug period!

[XIceBladeX]

20 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

"friendly fire draining energy in 3 secs" is a bug period!

Warframe Sponsors on Youtube made videos showcasing the "Nyx’s Assimilate Augment not allowing teammates to charge you up by fire absorption" bug days after the mod's release. This is clearly a nerf, and is not a bug fix. If it really was a bug, it would have been fixed 6 months ago along with the other Assimilate bug fixes

Spoiler

August 2016 - Nyx: Absorb: Assimilate released:

• Within days of release, Warframe Sponsors on Youtube shared Assimilate builds centered around the fact that allies CANNOT drain Nyx's energy during Absorb. 

September 2016 - Assimilate bugs fixed:

• Fixed being able to roll with Nyx’s Assimilate Augment active by binding a dedicated roll key (not sprint/roll).
• Fixed getting stuck in Nyx’s Absorb bubble while the ability is deactivated.

March 2017 - Assimilate nerf:

• Fixed Nyx’s Assimilate Augment not allowing teammates to charge you up by fire absorption.

I hope you understand.

Edited April 1, 2017 by XIceBladeX

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

On 3/30/2017 at 1:24 PM, GOLANX said:

assimilate not taking friendly fire was a bug because it wasnt intended or part of the base ability, pls dont ask for a reversion ask that ally damage not effect the base ability and thus assimilate.

Friendly fire should be removed entirely from absorb/assimilate. Just like you cannot rad proc yourself to grief other players this "bug" "nerf" fix or whatever had unintended consequences and should be treated the same. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[JalakBali]

I would propose to remove the cap from Absorb's damage and remove this nonsense with taking more energy as more damage absorbed. Or make the damage dumped back 10 times as strong at least. Absorb is already an underused ability. Then, properly "nerf" Assimilate by making it unable to take friendly fire damage so it'd be weaker than Absorb for damage dealing but more useful for defensive situations.

[RedDirtTrooper]

21 hours ago, JalakBali said:

I would propose to remove the cap from Absorb's damage and remove this nonsense with taking more energy as more damage absorbed. Or make the damage dumped back 10 times as strong at least. Absorb is already an underused ability. Then, properly "nerf" Assimilate by making it unable to take friendly fire damage so it'd be weaker than Absorb for damage dealing but more useful for defensive situations.

Or just make absorb good enough that the half range on assimilate would already be a massive downside? 

The real issue that this fix has brought to light is that absorb has been junk for a long, long while. It doesn't do enough damage for the effort and energy expended, and the damage fall off makes what little damage it's capable of a joke. It's damage type is junk. Why does the psychic frame do magnetic damage anyway? At a minimum, if you are going to allow friendly fire to strip away 300 or 400 energy in seconds, it should at least nuke the map as well as Maim, or Cataclysm. But no, instead we get damage mitigation that can't be relied on in a team setting, and damage that's not worth optimizing for. There are lots of ways they could fix it:

Just roll back the assimilate changes and at least let us have our niche build fun.

Take away the per shot energy drain.

Take away friendly fire affecting it.

Vastly increase the damage and range and do away with the fall off.

There are, I'm sure even more that I'm not thinking of at the moment. The pleasant upside to fixing absorb is you'd fix assimilate naturally along with it. Even if we didn't get our tank Nyx build back, at least it would open up some build other than spam 3 and hide as much as possible.

Edited April 3, 2017 by RedDirtTrooper