Modding system with more room for diversity

[Ptotheextreme]

I have a dream...oops wrong starting sentence.

I have a suggestion, and that is: remove the limited amount of slots entirely and let us decide which mods we want on the weapon by choosing how many points of that mod we want to use on the weapon/sentinel/pet/warframe/etc, therefore we are only limited by the number of points we have.

This gives us more freedom to improve said moddable gear in many ways instead of restricting us to a few choices.

This is my first post, so please tell me if this is the right section to be posting this.

[Walkampf]

Right section,

awfull idea.

I honestly have to ask, if you ever played a Videogame before. Being able so slap everything you want on a weapon whould not increase diversity, but drastically decrease it, BECAUSE you don't have to make choices. Everybody whould just slap everyting on every weapon.

[bluepheonix13]

2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

Right section,

awfull idea.

I honestly have to ask, if you ever played a Videogame before. Being able so slap everything you want on a weapon whould not increase diversity, but drastically decrease it, BECAUSE you don't have to make choices. Everybody whould just slap everyting on every weapon.

I think you didn't read the "limited by the number of points" part. It would increase diversity, because you cannot fit everything on a weapon/warframe with only 60+Aura/Stance capacity. 

 

To OP,

I think it is an interesting idea, but I honestly can't say if I like it or not. I think it would certainly bring some balancing problems because the number of mods we can fit would increase drastically (you'd basically have double capacity 120+2*Aura/Stance with enough Forma).

[ChuckMaverick]

It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how much it would actually change things.

By the time you're investing forma into a weapon and have maxed mods, the limiting factor isn't generally the number of mod slots but the total cost in mod points.

I can see it being useful once you get to the extremes of having 6-7+ forma on an item, and having a more flexible way to apply the forma's drain reduction than tying it to a particular slot would be nice.

One part of the suggestion I do like is the ability to tune down mods to a lower drain, so I don't need to have both a rank 4 and rank 5 Streamline, for example, and I could just dial back a maxed Streamline to rank 4 for that particular build if that's what I needed.

[fr4gb4ll]

3 hours ago, Walkampf said:

Right section,

awfull idea.

I honestly have to ask, if you ever played a Videogame before. Being able so slap everything you want on a weapon whould not increase diversity, but drastically decrease it, BECAUSE you don't have to make choices. Everybody whould just slap everyting on every weapon.

indeed.

3 hours ago, bluepheonix13 said:

I think you didn't read the "limited by the number of points" part. It would increase diversity, because you cannot fit everything on a weapon/warframe with only 60+Aura/Stance capacity. 

 

To OP,

I think it is an interesting idea, but I honestly can't say if I like it or not. I think it would certainly bring some balancing problems because the number of mods we can fit would increase drastically (you'd basically have double capacity 120+2*Aura/Stance with enough Forma).

no, i think he/she did understand it quite well - it would lead to even less diversity in builds than we already see now.

but as i posted a few times already in the past, a whole different take on the modding system might bring a fresh wind into this stale water - but i'll refrain from writing it yet again down here, for it's not my thread and i don't want to steal it from  the OP.

[Arcanico]

 

3 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

One part of the suggestion I do like is the ability to tune down mods to a lower drain, so I don't need to have both a rank 4 and rank 5 Streamline, for example, and I could just dial back a maxed Streamline to rank 4 for that particular build if that's what I needed.

 

4 hours ago, Ptotheextreme said:

I have a suggestion, and that is: remove the limited amount of slots entirely and let us decide which mods we want

Two Bad ideas...

You guys want everything easy...

its a game, we need more challenges, stop asking or sugesting everything in your hands...

[ChuckMaverick]

2 hours ago, Arcanico said:

Two Bad ideas...

You guys want everything easy...

its a game, we need more challenges, stop asking or sugesting everything in your hands...

You have no idea what you're talking about if you think I want everything easy.

Please stop making wild assumptions and making yourself look ridiculous.

[Arcanico]

2 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

You have no idea what you're talking about if you think I want everything easy.

Please stop making wild assumptions and making yourself look ridiculous.

Still a bad ideia, get 2 mods and stop crying for change.

[bluepheonix13]

23 minutes ago, Arcanico said:

Still a bad ideia, get 2 mods and stop crying for change.

1. If you want a Blind Rage on every rank for example, you'd need 11 mods, which is far worse than 2, especially since it is a corrupted mod.

2. He/She was certainly not "crying".

3. What else do you think the forums are for than to make suggestions for change?

[ChuckMaverick]

39 minutes ago, Arcanico said:

Still a bad ideia, get 2 mods and stop crying for change.

I already have enough Streamline mods that I could keep one at each possible rank and still have spares, that's not the point.

Also not crying, stop being so childish.

It's about quality of life changes, not making the game easier.

[Volinus7]

The current system used the amount of slots, max potatoed cap points and forma as parts of equation to derive and assign how many cap points a particular mods would require. If you want to erase slot number from the design process and expand the number of mods per item then all of previous mods must be adjusted accordingly results in massive overhaul. It's not something a player who has no clues why this mod costs 9 cap that mod costs 14 cap would suggest.

Also mod system is fun because it has contradiction between versatility vs specificity, build calculation is harder under limited slots. 

 

OP suggestion is not bad or entirely impractical, but is it worth the workload which will fall on DE who work by nine to five mentality and have almost no time balancing the game because they focus on releasing new items for player to grind for eternity?

Edited March 14, 2017 by Volinus7

[Arcanico]

1 hour ago, bluepheonix13 said:

1. If you want a Blind Rage on every rank for example, you'd need 11 mods, which is far worse than 2, especially since it is a corrupted mod.

2. He/She was certainly not "crying".

3. What else do you think the forums are for than to make suggestions for change?

1. Farm it. i dont need 11 Blind Rage mods on my builds, if you need, go farm it. its free.

2. Yes, she is, and you are too.

3. Meet other ppl, make questions, report bugs, trade itens, learn about the news... how many more you want?

 

Its mine opnion, just respect it... 2 awfull ideas.

[Energized]

11 hours ago, Ptotheextreme said:

I have a dream...oops wrong starting sentence.

I have a suggestion, and that is: remove the limited amount of slots entirely and let us decide which mods we want on the weapon by choosing how many points of that mod we want to use on the weapon/sentinel/pet/warframe/etc, therefore we are only limited by the number of points we have.

This gives us more freedom to improve said moddable gear in many ways instead of restricting us to a few choices.

This is my first post, so please tell me if this is the right section to be posting this.

I like the idea of updating the mod system a bit but I think you're going too far.

My biggest issue with the current implementation is that you can not easily down-rank mods for specific builds. Why would we need multiple different ranked mods that do the exact same thing - it is counter-intuitive and unnecessary. I second your opinion on that aspect.

[DE] should consider adding mod down-ranking to our mod builds (A/B/C) so fine-tuning our warframes/archwing/weapons/companions is not as annoying (especially for new players). 

[SilverMarketer]

A great suggestion though the only balanced way I can think to implement your idea is to lower the amount of mod points we have to compensate for being able to put in as many mods we want as long as we are within the limits of the available mod points.

 

[taiiat]

being able to fit more Damage Mods isn't going to result in more diversity, just more Damage Mods.

the problems isn't the rules to work inside, the problems are the Mods themselves.

[NeithanDiniem]

The only part of this I would agree with is the ability to power down a mod at will as long as we have ranked the mod up. I have collected one copy for each rank of ~3/4ths of all the mods in the game (excluding conclave) with many partial sets and would very happily accept the ability to power down a mod like that. As long as it didn't cost additional endo to re-power the mod back up then I 'd be more than happy to have all my duplicate mods dissolved.

I would not however agree to the move away from the slot system. As it is now it forces compromise on players, you have to decide what you want for your build. This is compounded with an oversaturation of mods in the system that really don't need to exist (the Devs have stated they feel the same way before several times). Were the mods more limited without the unnecessary variants in the mix then you would have less to choose between with the same functional capability as what we have now. Then if mods were returned to and gone over to rebalance under/overpowered mods choice would have a more balanced platform to stand on. Lastly mechanics need a go over to see if any changes to them could balance the choices further, such as the difference between status and criticals being so dramatically one-sided.

Letting people throw more mods on at a time would only exemplify the existing shortcomings in the mod system, rather than improve it.

[ganjou234]

Since the topic is about having a system that encourages mod diversity, I'll suggest mine (its quite similar to the OP's idea).

1. Mod defusion, I think many people already suggested this. We can have it cost as much endo as its level indicates (ie descending).
2. Mod overcharging/overfusion, up to double its max rank (max rank 12 -> max overcharge 24). Conditions: Overcharged mods must be placed on a matching polarity slot and is not an aura mod, augment, or stance mod. This also means the cost of overcharging would skyrocket.
   • 100% current rank for common mods (12->24) and 50% for uncommon and rare mods (eg Blind rage, max rank is 16, so its max overcharged rank is +8, so an overcharged Blind rage would be 24 points)
   • overcharging has a chance to fail, common mods -> 20% and uncommon&rare -> 40% No change in cost if failed.
   • Frames with overcharged mods have some sort of electric arcing effect/aura/look to suggest that the frame/weapon is overcharged (purely aesthetic).
3. (adding mod slots, costs endo + forma) yo dawg, i heard u like the grind ;) <---although I think this idea requires a rework of the current mod point system...

(FYI I really like the 1st and 2nd idea I have and I'd push for it)

 

EDIT; These ideas would also make it so that the harder you grind for that frame the better it gets. Mmmmm overcharged steel fiber......

Edited March 14, 2017 by ganjou234
additional info

[ChuckMaverick]

9 hours ago, ganjou234 said:

These ideas would also make it so that the harder you grind for that frame the better it gets.

Too much power creep.

I'm all for additional effort buying you increased flexibility or quality of life, but not that much power.

[ganjou234]

2 hours ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Too much power creep.

I'm all for additional effort buying you increased flexibility or quality of life, but not that much power.

Hmm....I was thinking most wouldnt have the time or will to get a modup to a r12->r24 overcharge level due to the amount of creds and endo it would take......

[Xzorn]

We're already being more limited by polarity points than mods slots.

If you want to use Primed Bane + Heavy Cal + Primed Cryo on a non-crit weapon you often lock yourself out of another viable build due to polarity cost.

Some frames have this issue with Aura polarity as well.

If they keep adding Primed mods (they will) then you'll soon need 2 of everything to maintain optimal build options.

[ChuckMaverick]

There's a lot of speculation here, but I'd be interested to see calculated examples of the actual power increase, if any, that this would allow.

[Lockecoleff]

I started a similar post about a year ago.  My idea was a little different though.  I was having selectable levels for the mods.  So you could "Rank down" a mod if you needed it to fit on your frame but won't fit at full rank.  So if you have a level ten Transient Fortitude you are able to select each level under that for reduced effects.  Beats the heck outta leveling up multiples of the same mods at different ranks.

 

Two cents left.

[ganjou234]

On 3/14/2017 at 10:43 PM, ChuckMaverick said:

There's a lot of speculation here, but I'd be interested to see calculated examples of the actual power increase, if any, that this would allow.

Example -> Steel fiber

• Increase per level : 10%
• max rank 10 with a consumption of 14 points at 110% armor increase.
• overcharge to rank 20 with a consumption of 24 at 110% + 100% (220%).

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Steel_Fiber

[ChuckMaverick]

1 hour ago, ganjou234 said:

Example -> Steel fiber

• Increase per level : 10%
• max rank 10 with a consumption of 14 points at 110% armor increase.
• overcharge to rank 20 with a consumption of 24 at 110% + 100% (220%).

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Steel_Fiber

I meant the suggestion in the OP, the power increase from adding mod ranks is obvious.