World on Fire

[MobyTheDuck]

Everytime I see threads like these, the problem never is because the thing in question is overpowered/unbalanced, but because it can easily do low level content and/or get more kills than the guy that started the thread.

[Nezha_Rose]

But.... You were in Akklad. You do know the player behavior of those EXP sink maps right? The deal for those EXP maps is to get over the forma dilema. You nerf Ember, they would use main equinox, then javelin excal, stomp rino, or Nezha's Nezha.

The deal is to get it done quickly, just like it happened in Draco in the old days. I dont like mindless aoe nukes on other game modes, but EXP sinks like this map, and credit sinks like pluto dar sec def, speed kills.

Akklad is a mission people enjoy nucking the fluff out of.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Nezha_Rose

[Flirk2]

On 15.03.2017 at 7:21 PM, DSkycroft said:

I was just in an Akkad mission and every time I was about to kill an enemy the kill was taken from me by an Ember player using WoF. Frankly,I think DE needs to change it to be more like Frost's fourth,where it is one burst and then it ends.

Let me get this straight.

You set your match to public and went on Akkad.

You got an Ember in the squad.

Ember got the kills.

You ask for a nerf.

Because, really. How dare he! Make Ember's 4 into her 3 yesterday! But with 100 energy cost. That will show all those Ember casuals!

I could say that on Akkad Ember needs to have a way to kill the ancients really fast, or WoF won't kill a thing even at the end of wave 5. (90% damage reduction from Healers + about 90% ability damage reduction from disruptors)

I could say that past level 30 one needs to mod Ember heavily, and know how to use Accelerant to be even remotely effective.

I could point out that Akkad is not the place to expect random people to go for a challenging game play.

I could point out that setting matchmaking to public should be done only if you are prepared to tolerate any and all play style of random people who will join you.

But:

On 15.03.2017 at 7:21 PM, DSkycroft said:

if you can't make an intelligent argument as to why my opinion is wrong

Problem with that... Seems like only you are the one who will decide whether the argument was intelligent enough.

And seeing as the argument would be against your point of view, it's quite hard to expect unbiased judgement.

I'll just say that your stance:

On 15.03.2017 at 7:42 PM, DSkycroft said:

Some missions are a bit to difficult to do solo.They could keep it's utility while still making it harder to steal kills from others.

Is quite odd.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

Either the mission is too difficult to solo, and then you have to deal with other people's definition of ''fun'', which can involve getting 90% of team's kills or sitting in the corner with a Youtube channel up and running... And if another player takes all the load for the mission too difficult for you to solo, you should be glad and thankful.

Or you can't tolerate ''kill stealing''. Which, by the way, is just plain strange in a co-op game where you don't lose anything if you keep in 50 meter range of the player who does the killing.

In that case you have 3 options in matchmaking that let you play as you wish: solo, friends only, invite only.

But you want to force other people out of their habits instead. To make them play as you want them to play by removing the very tools they use. Be it Ember's WoF, Mirage's Synoid Simulor, Excalibur's Exalted blade or Frost's Avalanche.

And when people point that out, you go all ''How rude!''.

Well, I would not expect people to be accepting and polite when you seek to destroy their play style with nerfs.

[Chroia]

On 3/15/2017 at 7:25 PM, Kalvorax said:

I'd much rather see WoF get turned into the Eximus Fire wave, though at much higher strength so it can still kill things decently.

As has been pointed out throughout this thread, there's already one attached to her 3.
It was added to Ring of Fire first last time Ember got touched.

It's... not very good for damage.

 

On 3/15/2017 at 7:31 PM, Lord_Impaler said:

perhaps just decrease its range substantially could be a start.

It already has the 2nd lowest base range of any 4th - tied with Avalance and Miasma at 15m, ahead of only Absorb at 10m.

Part of the reason it only kills on low-mid levels is because you already need Overextended on it for it to be of any significant use.
Reduce the base further, and you've basically killed the ability.

Why?
Because damage application is more important than paper damage. One of (at least 3) reasons that Absorb is, as far as I know, not considered a viable damage skill anymore. (The other 2 being damage type and non-scaling damage, due to acting like Quick Thinking now.)
To illustrate:
Raise the base damage to 50k per tick, lower the range to 2m.
Is that a useful ability?

 

On 3/15/2017 at 7:39 PM, CherryPauper said:

Imo it's better the way it is now. Even if it did no damage, it scales pretty well in terms of its stun time and Firequake. I can do sorties solo pretty comfortable as Ember even if my 4 can't kill them.

Depends on the mission type.
I find the target cap on WoF hinders it, even 'just' as CC, at higher densities (which generally go with higher levels).

[Kalvorax]

14 hours ago, Chroia said:

As has been pointed out throughout this thread, there's already one attached to her 3.
It was added to Ring of Fire first last time Ember got touched.

It's... not very good for damage.

yeah that is true...but i see it ONLY as a visual..it doesnt do anything imo....

Edited March 17, 2017 by Kalvorax

[MagPrime]

44 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

yeah that is true...but i see it ONLY as a visual..it doesnt do anything imo....

The ability does damage, that's not something that can be opinion based.  

If it's worthwhile though, that's entirely subjective.

[Chroia]

8 hours ago, Kalvorax said:

yeah that is true...but i see it ONLY as a visual..it doesnt do anything imo....

Same as the Eximus wave:
Some damage (doesn't scale as well as theirs) and knockdown/knockback to all targets hit.
Like theirs, the wave is LoS.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Chroia

[Vedlom]

On 17/03/2017 at 1:04 AM, Flirk2 said:

Let me get this straight.

You set your match to public and went on Akkad.

You got an Ember in the squad.

Ember got the kills.

You ask for a nerf.

Because, really. How dare he! Make Ember's 4 into her 3 yesterday! But with 100 energy cost. That will show all those Ember casuals!

I could say that on Akkad Ember needs to have a way to kill the ancients really fast, or WoF won't kill a thing even at the end of wave 5. (90% damage reduction from Healers + about 90% ability damage reduction from disruptors)

I could say that past level 30 one needs to mod Ember heavily, and know how to use Accelerant to be even remotely effective.

I could point out that Akkad is not the place to expect random people to go for a challenging game play.

I could point out that setting matchmaking to public should be done only if you are prepared to tolerate any and all play style of random people who will join you.

But:

Problem with that... Seems like only you are the one who will decide whether the argument was intelligent enough.

And seeing as the argument would be against your point of view, it's quite hard to expect unbiased judgement.

I'll just say that your stance:

Is quite odd.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

Either the mission is too difficult to solo, and then you have to deal with other people's definition of ''fun'', which can involve getting 90% of team's kills or sitting in the corner with a Youtube channel up and running... And if another player takes all the load for the mission too difficult for you to solo, you should be glad and thankful.

Or you can't tolerate ''kill stealing''. Which, by the way, is just plain strange in a co-op game where you don't lose anything if you keep in 50 meter range of the player who does the killing.

In that case you have 3 options in matchmaking that let you play as you wish: solo, friends only, invite only.

But you want to force other people out of their habits instead. To make them play as you want them to play by removing the very tools they use. Be it Ember's WoF, Mirage's Synoid Simulor, Excalibur's Exalted blade or Frost's Avalanche.

And when people point that out, you go all ''How rude!''.

Well, I would not expect people to be accepting and polite when you seek to destroy their play style with nerfs.

This. Just this. This should be taken and nailed all over the forums like Luther's tenents because people always seem to be crying for nerfs as soon as their tonkor can't reach an enemy.

[Biddion]

On 3/16/2017 at 2:25 AM, Kalvorax said:

I'd much rather see WoF get turned into the Eximus Fire wave, though at much higher strength so it can still kill things decently.

I second this but she has a similar circular fire move, #3 I think. Nezha's fire walker I think would have suited her better.

[(PSN)Final_Dragon01]

Ember for the past few months is my most used but least favorite frame.  I use ember to do chores.  Things I would prefer not to do.  Low level alerts, invasions with BPs or parts, medallion runs, rifts, etc.  IDC how good you think the game is but low level S#&$ you have to keep doing over and over again gets boring fast.  Frankly I watch youtube videos or watch movies while idlely clearing levels and I am happy with that.

Reading that you might say I am burnt out and need to put the game down for a while, but I still have fun with Warframe with the fruits Ember produces.  The crops must be sowed before the rewards can be reaped.  Warframe is a farming game.  You must farm before you can have fun (If you say farming is fun you just have not played long enough).  Am I wrong for wanted to get the farming done as quick as possible so I can get to the part of the game I enjoy?

Ember is not OP because she is not good at higher levels.  Also Akkad is where Ember does her best work, so using that as an example is odd.  Try her against level 80-100 bombards.  If you can't keep up and put down the bombards with finishers or w/e as they spawn you'll get a missile out of nowhere that just one shots you.

I keep playing because ember makes the farming easy.  I don't enjoy it.  It's just a chore, but it has to be done.  If frames are nerfed so easy chores are no longer easy and expedient to complete I would probably quit the game.  Time is precious.  Ember makes the time/reward ratio bearable.