World on Fire

[MagPrime]

Right now, I think a decent rework would be to increase the energy drain per enemy effected by WoF.  

It already has a decent drain on it, but it doesnt matter if there's 1 or 100 in her fire field.  If you increased the energy drain to an extra 1 point per enemy effected, shed still be able to use the ability, but it would come at a higher cost.  This would potentionally reduce the afk WoF stereotype.

[TheLostBeast]

4 hours ago, DSkycroft said:

So,who here thinks that World on Fire takes the fun out of the game for anyone but the people using it? A lot of people will just say that you just need to get better at the game,but most of them are the ones who use Ember and don't want their "Kill everything that moves ability" to be balanced. I was just in an Akkad mission and every time I was about to kill an enemy the kill was taken from me by an Ember player using WoF. Frankly,I think DE needs to change it to be more like Frost's fourth,where it is one burst and then it ends.

 

Also,if you can't make an intelligent argument as to why my opinion is wrong and have to resort to insulting anyone who disagrees with you;don't bother commenting,It is just rude to other people. Nobody has done this so far on this page,but at some point someone probably will.

But doesn't the xp that's being get from the kills distribute to the teammates that's in the range?

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

Please do not ask for an Ember nerf!! WoF is pretty meh at higher levels. Most people only run her for speedruns or low level missions. 

She is squishy and doesn't handle damage well. I tell you, she is great as she is. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY

[SenorClipClop]

I've been feeling in an Ember mood lately (and since I recently picked up Healing Return, I've really been wanting to work out a dedicated Channeled melee Ember), so I just finished some good ol' Simulacrum testing. My results are all old-news kind of stuff, but I wanted to try it out first-hand. Here's what I found:

Spoiler

• First, I tested her unmodded (at Max Rank) against enemies at Level 30. WoF dealt pretty good damage to grunt-tier enemies (especially Infested ones), and mid-range enemy types still went down without much of a fight. Heavy units were a bit more of a struggle, but thanks to the skill's decent Status chance I was able to keep them CC'ed and take minimal damage. Disruptors were the exception, taking hardly any damage. The Range (15m) was respectable.
• Next I tried my standard Ember loadout (~145% Range, ~170% Strength) against enemies at Levels 40 and 50. At all the levels I tried, the grunt-tier foes still seemed to be pretty trivial and the Fire damage chewed through health pretty quick, but anything with more than a little Armor was pretty unwilling to die. Even with my reasonably healthy mod setup, Ember rolled the grunts but couldn't really take down heavy units, which posed an issue for my fairly frail Warframe.
• Finally I tested my usual setup against your average squad of Level 80 enemies (about the highest level of anything you'll meet without going deep into Endurance runs). While the CC was good (though intermittent), her damage wasn't really getting anything done, even with frequent use of her 2.

 

My personal conclusion is that, in terms of balance, neither the Range nor the damage should be changed. Looking at the unmodded stats, Ember seems quite fair and, although modding can make her really strong, it would be unfair to adjust her stats based on the assumption that everyone mods the same way. If we nerfed the Range, for example, WoF's unmodded Range would be pitiful and would require players to mod a particular way to make it useful, rather than merely incentivizing additional Range.

I am strongly against changing her 4 itself. World on Fire is a simple yet beautiful power that fits in very well with Ember's theme. Turning her battlefield into a place wreathed in fire is just really appealing to me.

If Ember's WoF were to be changed, I believe the best route for this would be in how the player is allowed to use the skill. This might best be reflected in how Energy is managed. This could be made more similar to Equinox's 3 (energy cost per enemy affected) or like Valkyr's 4 (scaling upward in Energy cost to a per-second cap) to ensure an Ember can still do what Ember does without making it thoughtless damage. Giving the player a condition which forces them to pick the best times to have the ult on might make her a little more engaging. This kind of change would be trivial to minmaxers, however.

If the crux of the issue is kill-stealing, I think the problem lies in our ability to choose both our own power level and difficulty level at the same time, resulting in players being fiercely overpowered for their missions. An Ember will usually mod the same way whether they're in a Level 15 mission or a Level 80 mission, and the results are very different. Basically any Warframe (except Loki, who deals no damage) can steal kills if you're running around Akkad or some other Starchart-level area. If not getting to kills things in a Level 40 area where up to four Tenno defend a single point from melee units who rush headlong at that point is a huge concern, a Tenno may need to consider their extensive mission options and seek out something more their speed.

 

Edited March 15, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[Lady_VigDis_VanGrayle]

11 hours ago, Homer87 said:

WOF is fine. It's main job is to deal damage and stun. Playing solo or joining a different game is always an option.

Just started an Ember with an affinity booster. Almost maxed, but been sneaking around and playing all day. We absolutely LOVE WOF, especially comes in handy solo. I find it makes for good support on defense missions, but then I'm still kinda noob after being off and on for 3 years. WOF...don't change a thing :)

Edited March 16, 2017 by MarilynMayMayVigDis

[Lady_VigDis_VanGrayle]

Just started an Ember. WOF ... don't change a thing. Perfect for both support, and solo ... and it looks soooo cool ... it's great to be back ... we missed yall ...

[VampirePirate]

It's a DOT ability.  Those are never overpowered and never worth complaining about.  Some people have not been around back when Ember actually was overpowered.

If on low level missions then yes, it kills instantly.  In higher levels, this is not the case and WOF becomes a support role power with DOT.

If you wish to complain about a warframe or power or anything else, try to have an open mind and test it out more or learn more about it first.

It makes little sense to base game changes on the cliche "it killed enemies before i could kill them".  That complaint is not helpful and also old and childish.

I always felt she needed to be stronger because she doesn't do much at higher levels, that, and she is squishy.

(For some of you that obviously don't know, "AFK" means 'away from keyboard'.  It is not used for people that are too lazy to actually play during a mission and would rather let warframe powers do all the work.  Those people are just simply lazy, not afk.)

[AntoninDvorak]

11 hours ago, (Xbox One)Requiem of One said:

In the past, I made a topic about how I hate ember players because more often than not, the pop world on fire and then just run around. This is more of a hassle on console than on pc, so I was told. Does in need changed in my opinion, absolutely. People say: "I use her for speed running low levels." but what about the people with low level warframes trying to get those mission challenge done for that extra affinity? Those people get screwed out of it when the ember, prime or not, pops world on fire. Hey get 30 kills, nope, can't do it because lazy people with ember ruin it.

People also say that world on fire has good cc. Okay but if she has good cc wouldn't that mean for the player to run higher tiered levels instead of lower tier levels? Which the response is that "ember is not strong enough to survive" excuse which then I say mod differently. Which comes back with "she becomes squishy" excuse which I say again, mod her differently. It just becomes a vicious cycle, so now punish those ember players with my new favorite frame Nidus. Can't continue an exterminate mission if you can kill the last person for a good whole minute or so.

So in retrospect, yes, I support the idea for a rework on her world on fire. As for it being like the eximus fire wave, I don't think it would work because fire blast is pretty much that with a little added ring of fire to it. It could be changed to something like an eruption of fire from ember that starts at ember and expands outward in a wave up to a certain distance or she could form a mini sun and chuck it causing a huge explosion. I don't know, just throwing out ideas.

you haven't got the new exterminate,have you ? 
now the new exterminate spawns enemies all over the place, so you don't need to kill 1 specific guy at the end... 
pity for you my friend... pity for you. 

[ClinkzEastwood]

Few months break and WoF is still a S#&$ of a skill.

Feelsweirdman.

[RistN]

14 hours ago, DSkycroft said:

So,who here thinks that World on Fire takes the fun out of the game for anyone but the people using it? A lot of people will just say that you just need to get better at the game,but most of them are the ones who use Ember and don't want their "Kill everything that moves ability" to be balanced. I was just in an Akkad mission and every time I was about to kill an enemy the kill was taken from me by an Ember player using WoF. Frankly,I think DE needs to change it to be more like Frost's fourth,where it is one burst and then it ends.

 

Also,if you can't make an intelligent argument as to why my opinion is wrong and have to resort to insulting anyone who disagrees with you;don't bother commenting,It is just rude to other people. Nobody has done this so far on this page,but at some point someone probably will.

Did you ever play with Ember in high lvl missions?Did you ever see one in high lvl missions?There is you're answer.

Ember is only good for low lvl missions like invasions where you have to do 3 same missions and want to do it quickly as possible.That is her only role in this game and can't be used for anything serious.If you take a way WoF from her what's left?

There are a lot better and end game viable warframes.Ember is on the spotlight here only because many players use it.

[Justice_Ember]

16 hours ago, DSkycroft said:

How exactly is my comment unreasonable? I simply stated facts as to why a lot of other damage frames aren't as frustrating as Ember. Just because you can't come up with a more logical argument doesn't make me wrong.

Your comment is unreasonable for two reasons:

1.- You are Comparing kits to ult, that's just a phallacy

2.- You are basing part of your argument on how much fun you get, which is extemely subjective

And to make matters worse you make it sound like a serious topic. So again, I give up.

[Eminem2420]

I hate those people. They've made me hate my favorite frame.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

No issues with WoF as a power; I'm just tired of Ember Morons who can't seem to understand that they need to wait until after everyone gets their 10 reactant before activating WoF. 

Had some nitwit burn down everything in a Survival today before most enemies had a chance to corrupt. Nobody cracked their relic  

 

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

38 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

No issues with WoF as a power; I'm just tired of Ember Morons who can't seem to understand that they need to wait until after everyone gets their 10 reactant before activating WoF. 

Had some nitwit burn down everything in a Survival today before most enemies had a chance to corrupt. Nobody cracked their relic  

 

This can be said about a lot of frames. As well as missions. A friend and I tried to do a lith excavation. We just needed forma honestly. Some randoms popped in. These idiots kept activating the excavators and feeding them. And to top it off one of them was an ember. To be fair my friend was a SynSim Mirage, but he knows when best to be op during a fissure. We did a total of 6 runs. We only opened 3 frikken relics.

Edited March 16, 2017 by (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan

[(XBOX)Deathstroke52dc]

15 minutes ago, (Xbox One)DRG JupiterIvan said:

This can be said about a lot of frames. As well as missions. A friend and I tried to do a lith excavation. We just needed forma honestly. Some randoms popped in. These idiots kept activating the excavators and feeding them. And to top it off one of them was an ember. To be fair my friend was a SynSim Mirage, but he knows when best to be op during a fissure. We did a total of 6 runs. We only opened 3 frikken relics.

I understand your troubles. But I think the best way to look at that specific issue is to modify the occurrence rates of void fissures, as Ember's ability is actually more underwhelming than you seem to understand. 

[Insane-Mana]

On 15-3-2017 at 6:21 PM, DSkycroft said:

So,who here thinks that World on Fire takes the fun out of the game for anyone but the people using it? A lot of people will just say that you just need to get better at the game,but most of them are the ones who use Ember and don't want their "Kill everything that moves ability" to be balanced. I was just in an Akkad mission and every time I was about to kill an enemy the kill was taken from me by an Ember player using WoF. Frankly,I think DE needs to change it to be more like Frost's fourth,where it is one burst and then it ends.

Dont take this personal, but i kinda feel why players like me and old veterans start losing interest in the game. 

I once made a similar post about the sinoyd simulor and mirage. some time after it i got my hands on the gun and got myself a mirage. then i discovered that in order for it to be "OP" you need to slap a bunch of forma on both the weapon and the frame you also need mods that are not easy to come by or simply just cost plat. 1 way or the other investments must be made... 

So why should a player who has invested so much time and effort in a weapon or frame or both not be able to enjoy the fruits of his or her labour?

1 more personal example

My Ember prime (480p i payed for the set) has 4 forma, at the time i didn't have primed flow or primed continuity so there's another 200p. Then i needed Firequake and Energy conversion. These mods i could get for free but needed to grind the syndicate missions, as this was at the start of me playing the game this also cost me forma and other stuff which you need to pay as offerings to the syndicate. So all in all this needed allot of time and effort grinding that out. I could continue talking about mods but i hope you get my point.

Same go's for my 4 forma tonkor ( which actually still needs 1 or 2 forma ) same go's for my secondary's and melee's 

So i dont think it fair to ask for nerfs like this when the simple solution is to just leave the match and start a new one.

[(XBOX)Deathstroke52dc]

As a general message to all, Ember's Ultimate, even when in combination with her second ability (which massively boosts fire damage), Ember's damage scales at a reasonable (and to me, underwhelming) rate, which I believe should not be diminished. If it were to nerfed as such, I would insist that the status chance of her world on fire be increased, and be given a chance for enemies within 3 metres to take exponential damage. 

[(XBOX)Deathstroke52dc]

4 minutes ago, Insane-Mana said:

Dont take this personal, but i kinda feel why players like me and old veterans start losing interest in the game. 

I once made a similar post about the sinoyd simulor and mirage. some time after it i got my hands on the gun and got myself a mirage. then i discovered that in order for it to be "OP" you need to slap a bunch of forma on both the weapon and the frame you also need mods that are not easy to come by or simply just cost plat. 1 way or the other investments must be made... 

So why should a player who has invested so much time and effort in a weapon or frame or both not be able to enjoy the fruits of his or her labour?

1 more personal example

My Ember prime (480p i payed for the set) has 4 forma, at the time i didn't have primed flow or primed continuity so there's another 200p. Then i needed Firequake and Energy conversion. These mods i could get for free but needed to grind the syndicate missions, as this was at the start of me playing the game this also cost me forma and other stuff which you need to pay as offerings to the syndicate. So all in all this needed allot of time and effort grinding that out. I could continue talking about mods but i hope you get my point.

Same go's for my 4 forma tonkor ( which actually still needs 1 or 2 forma ) same go's for my secondary's and melee's 

So i dont think it fair to ask for nerfs like this when the simple solution is to just leave the match and start a new one.

What you suggest is also a completely viable option. Although, can be inconvenient to some. I suggest reactant drops me modified to be more common. 

[Insane-Mana]

On 15-3-2017 at 6:58 PM, MagPrime said:

Or, if new players are concerned about that extra xp, they could say "I need x kills, can I get those real quick?"

You can't say one person or group of people are lazy in defense of another person or group of people that can't be bothered to speak up.

And from personal experience, saying something does work.  When I started, I said something and 9/10 of the time, I was given enough time to get the extra xp.  When I take new players around, I tell the pugs that someone wants to do their challenge and again, 9/10 of the time, they're given the chance to complete it.

Have you ever tried saying "hey, I need 5 slide kills for extra xp, can I have a sec to get them?"  on PC is normally works.

I get requests like this a few times a day, always honour them. As do most other players with high dps output

[Insane-Mana]

8 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Deathstroke52dc said:

What you suggest is also a completely viable option. Although, can be inconvenient to some. I suggest reactant drops me modified to be more common. 

I dont bring my ember to low lvl fissure's and if i do i only turn on wof after we all have 10 or like wave 20.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, Insane-Mana said:

I get requests like this a few times a day, always honour them. As do most other players with high dps output

I've gotten requests to lay off Magnetize, always honor unless it's an emergency.  ^.^

Oddly, more people would rather force an extraction than ask me to turn off WoF.  Had someone do that in a PUG, they never said anything, just dropped a waypoint to extraction and sent pm's to the others to meet and I got screwed with a forced extract.

One of the randoms felt bad or something and fessed up after the group dissolved.

Some people, I swear.

[(XBOX)Slimm qp ReapeR]

20 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Deathstroke52dc said:

As a general message to all, Ember's Ultimate, even when in combination with her second ability (which massively boosts fire damage), Ember's damage scales at a reasonable (and to me, underwhelming) rate, which I believe should not be diminished. If it were to nerfed as such, I would insist that the status chance of her world on fire be increased, and be given a chance for enemies within 3 metres to take exponential damage. 

I agree with  you the point of her but actually not being OP as some may think. Yes low level enemies 0-30ish it's a cakewalk for ember but her fire damage falls off considerably fast when dealing with level 40+ enemies. But I do understand the frustration one has with other players using ember when it comes to low level. That can be quite annoying

[Insane-Mana]

16 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

I've gotten requests to lay off Magnetize, always honor unless it's an emergency.  ^.^

Oddly, more people would rather force an extraction than ask me to turn off WoF.  Had someone do that in a PUG, they never said anything, just dropped a waypoint to extraction and sent pm's to the others to meet and I got screwed with a forced extract.

One of the randoms felt bad or something and fessed up after the group dissolved.

Some people, I swear.

I solo up to lvl 150 for fun even with ember. So when people think they ditch me in a defense i always laugh, i would have stayed anyway :)

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

46 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Deathstroke52dc said:

I understand your troubles. But I think the best way to look at that specific issue is to modify the occurrence rates of void fissures, as Ember's ability is actually more underwhelming than you seem to understand. 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not among the group that believes it needs nerf or complete rework. It's more so the ability to kill low level enemies before they become corrupted. You're right, an increased rate by which enemies become corrupted would alleviate the issue, but the issue would still be here.

Being able to kill enemies before they become corrupted isn't entirely the games or frames fault tho, it's users error. Which is the point I was trying to make. Certain players can't grasp that their abilities can be a detriment to the mission.

But I am by no means part of the group that believes this, "it killed a thing before I could therefore I want it to not be able to do that anymore."

Edited March 16, 2017 by (XB1)DRG JupiterIvan

[MagPrime]

9 minutes ago, Insane-Mana said:

I solo up to lvl 150 for fun even with ember. So when people think they ditch me in a defense i always laugh, i would have stayed anyway :)

Nah, was a survival..