Sorties- Please replace focus lens with Arcanes

[-Shikari-]

Fix the arcanes first. Then maybe, maybe this could happen.
Having one Sayandana for every frame when you're supposedly supposed to fashionframe because it's locked in place with your Arcane Energize/Grace or w/e you use is not practical.

[DxAdder]

When sorties gave out event weapons they were "useful".

Now you get Endo almost pointless to veteran players who have 250K + of it and nothing to spend it on.

Focus Lenses to a focus system there going to nerf into the ground when they finally get back to it.

Why do we get such terrible rewards ? Simple DE feels the content is trivial and there fore the rewards should reflect this.

Why can't we just get a MR 20+ Planet will missions with lvl 100 mobs?

 

[Zepp_]

This is an amazing idea.  Rainds are an idea that simply didn't work.  The Arcanes should be far more readily available instead of being a plat-farm for the 1% who has a raiding clan.  Enough of this Warframe Elitism.

[Voltage]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Actually this has gotten me to wonder...As DE continues to cater to less and less to veteran players are raids becoming somewhat of a lost art?

No they're not difficult but as more veterans leave because of lack of content, that leaves less amount of  experienced players around to show the ropes per say.

Not really, RSB has shown many players how to do raids. The reason raids are being less played is because with every update, DE makes them worse, especially for those who like to do them efficiently and fast. Many people don't even play raids for arcanes but for times. DE makes faster WRs now impossible. 8:06 LoR will never be beaten. This discourages many speedrunners. The raid community is small enough, and every update just makes it smaller.

[Voltage]

37 minutes ago, -dicht.Heartbreaker- said:

because it has a daily cool down.

^this. Many players do 1 and done for the day. Very few do extra raids. I have been doing 3 sets of raids (9 total), and it is because I do them for the game mode and credits, not just because of the arcane reward. (Still no avenger after more than a year of raiding)

Edited March 17, 2017 by --Q--Voltage

[RoninJed]

1 hour ago, -dicht.Nspace- said:

Except sorties are not listed separately in that chart

Right but I'm guessing a higher percentage of the community play sorties so the cool down time for raids is not a good defense for the low numbers.

1 hour ago, Sir_Puppington said:

Most people who do play raids enjoy them. Others may not think its great but they have put effort into it for a long time to learn, be patient and complete them. 
If you don't like it don't play it but don't go asking for the rewards that are exclusive to it.

Really you know most people who play raids enjoy it? Haven't seen that survey but i like how spamming one ability over and over is fun. Granted the JV raid is a little better but archwing is still pretty broken and not played by most of the community.

[Jeoxz]

No, here's why.

Lens are way more needed than arcanes. People who already have a lens in every single weapon and/or already maxed every school. Ok, we get it you don't need them anymore. But people who only got naramon and zenurik and now want arcanes. Go to raids.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

2 minutes ago, RoninJed said:

Right but I'm guessing a higher percentage of the community play sorties so the cool down time for raids is not a good defense for the low numbers.

Really you know most people who play raids enjoy it? Haven't seen that survey but i like how spamming one ability over and over is fun. Granted the JV raid is a little better but archwing is still pretty broken and not played by most of the community.

If your team's strategy is to spam a single ability then that's what you'll do. Nobody denies the fact that CC abilities make the raids much easier, however should you choose not to utilize them then it's your call. I've done raids without CC spam and it's much harder with an inexperienced team.

People ask for single ability spam when they can't trust their teammates not to die. It's a simple request that takes away the thought of what to do for those who can't handle the pressure.

You personally may not enjoy raids but that doesn't mean that others don't nor does it mean those who have put in the effort to mastery them should reap the rewards of those who refuse to.

 

I don't enjoy conclave but that doesn't mean I should demand DE release the conclave exclusive skins to PVE missions. Every place in the game has its just rewards.

[SeaUrchins]

I stopped playing raids because looking for a competent team on daily basis looked like a job and running with inexperienced players was pain in the butt. That's why I'd support arcanes in any public matching mission. Heck, I'd even support no key raids with public matchmaking. 24 hours cd is enough as a restriction to me.

[RoninJed]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

If your team's strategy is to spam a single ability then that's what you'll do. Nobody denies the fact that CC abilities make the raids much easier, however should you choose not to utilize them then it's your call. I've done raids without CC spam and it's much harder with an inexperienced team.

People ask for single ability spam when they can't trust their teammates not to die. It's a simple request that takes away the thought of what to do for those who can't handle the pressure.

You personally may not enjoy raids but that doesn't mean that others don't nor does it mean those who have put in the effort to mastery them should reap the rewards of those who refuse to.

 

I don't enjoy conclave but that doesn't mean I should demand DE release the conclave exclusive skins to PVE missions. Every place in the game has its just rewards.

I'm sure some do (didn't say all didnt) but if people really enjoyed doing raids the numbers would be higher. I'm pretty sure the main (maybe only) reason why people do raids is for platinum. Just look how defensive people have gotten about it here hehe. I mean do you see anyone defending archwing like this? Oh right archwing is broken too but you can't make lots of platinum off it so no need to defend that.

 

 

Oh and if you have done raids without CC then your not doing it right and only making it harder for you and your team and nobody wants that. I have never seen anyone recruiting or running a raid that doesn't ask for the same frames with good CC abilities.

Edited March 17, 2017 by RoninJed

[Voltage]

2 hours ago, --Q--Shockwave said:

Raids are being played by very few people (out of 26M Losers :P). And If this happens the Daily raiders % will further go down. Please not the Arcanes, suggest something else.

To add to this, we could solve DEs issue of "Lua and Fortress not getting use". Put the eyes of blight mods on Kuva Fortress with lenses, and our Aviator + lenses in Lua. I certainly as a vet would grind for lens (when I need them),and those event mods for my codex.

Edited March 17, 2017 by --Q--Voltage

[Valiant]

Think one of the problems with a standard lens as a reward is that I imagine most people don't bother using the lens on a weapon. Instead they wait however long to get 4 and build a greater or they just trade it for another lens or get lucky with a sale. 

Sometimes I've got a lens for a school I want but I still need 3 more. Ended up selling it or trading it for another lens which is closer to that greater lens completion.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

3 minutes ago, RoninJed said:

I'm sure some do (didn't say all didnt) but if people really enjoyed doing raids the numbers would be higher. I'm pretty sure the main (maybe only) reason why people do raids is for platinum. Just look how defensive people have gotten about it here hehe. I mean do you see anyone defending archwing like this? Oh right archwing is broken too but you can't make lots of platinum off it so no need to defend that.

 

 

Oh and if you have done raids without CC then your not doing it right and only making it harder for you and your team and nobody wants that. I have never seen anyone recruiting or running a raid that doesn't ask for the same frames with good CC abilities.

How am I not doing the raids right if I get them done? Lol that makes absolutely no sense.

Also, what does it matter if the pride of Raids are making platinum in the case you're making? They're worth platinum b/c of rarity. Rarity is from people not wanting to do them or not knowing how.

I personally don't raid as often anymore because I've already gotten what I want from the raids.
The numbers don't take that into account when comparing the activities of other missions. The other missions have their rewards constantly updated and changed from the release of new relics, mods, prime parts, kuva, sorties ect. 

Do me a favor and explain how a Raid is suppose to compete with those mission types in regards to activity? Doesn't really make sense does it?

[Kuestenjung]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)bumblebee1964 said:

Lol id rather get a lens than a forma... honestly dont know why they're there but im sure they have some type of complicated reason for it :)

 

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)Solargeo said:

you're crazy! X-x I always need forma right now

And? I allways need Forma too, but gettin a Forma/potatoe/tomatoe from Sortie is just outright bad. There are more then enough ways to get them.

[Sir_Puppington]

1 hour ago, RoninJed said:

Right but I'm guessing a higher percentage of the community play sorties so the cool down time for raids is not a good defense for the low numbers.

Really you know most people who play raids enjoy it? Haven't seen that survey but i like how spamming one ability over and over is fun. Granted the JV raid is a little better but archwing is still pretty broken and not played by most of the community.

of course if you play a raid only once in your lifetime you would be spamming a cc over and over because that's how you start when learning. You've got to play more and meet other raiders to see that's neither the only way nor the most efficient.

If you want to meet people who enjoy it, https://discord.me/wfrsb
Don't forget to say hi there.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Sir_Puppington

[-dicht.Amducias-]

Arcanes are exclusive to raids and this is how it has to stay. There is a reason for why they are available in the raids. They are not mandatory but useful additions, if you want them you either have to play the different kind of end-game content yourself or pay for the work that others did by playing this kind of end-game content. Sorties are there for different rewards, not for Arcanes.

[(PSN)Ransalot]

5 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

You can't go around solo'ing the entire game. While its accessible to the game wasn't designed for this and I know you know this too.

If you can't find a group to teach you you're probably giving up too easily. There's nothing wrong with saying you've prepared but you're just misguided at a certain part. Some people may take you while others don't. Also, theres nothing wrong with you starting a team and finding like-minded players to attempt the raids with you. Also, only Nightmare LoR has instant fail mode. Regular is so easy it hurts. 

All I keep reading is that it "its difficult and no one will teach me". Where there is a will to accomplish, you will find a way.

These arcanes in sorties threads will always find opposition from those who were willing to put in the time and effort to try, fail and try again versus those who look for a convienent excuse as to why they haven't done the raids. 

I've picked up on learning how to do LoR & NM LoR through my clan's LoR school, all's fine pretty easy as hell. But I realised the reason why most players don't bother with raids is bc

1) generic team comp requirements from hosts, if I don't enjoy playing & don't have the frame that you asked for why would I bother.

2) again, requirements. MR requirements, must have mic blah blah blah. Even if you have experience, if you don't meet both of those requirents it's a high chance you're out.

3) Not enough people/clans who are willing to teach random people from recruit tab, sure PC has raid bus, but what about console? Sure there's clans who teach but what about those that don't? Clan hop just to learn raids? 

4) Not that rewarding for that much investment? Idk, to me it's just 1 arcane and a 30 min booster (that'll run out by the time you're done with the raid) if you can find the container is all there is to raids. Maybe 4 arcanes a day if you learn regular & NM JV but then again nobody would be willing to teach JV and mostly ppl don't enjoy asswing.

Also nobody likes when a newcomer fk things up. If you wanna learn a raid but no one is willing to teach and you gotta lie to get in the squad, most likely they're gonna leave you and get a new player when you fk up. And it doesn't feel good for a player who wants to learn either.

Maybe it's not an excuse for players, you gotta put yourself in their shoes to really understand their situation. Saying "It's just an excuse" won't help either, what will help is for players like you, me and the rest with even a tad bit of experience to come together and teach the rest. If you don't get "players helping players" then idk what the community has become to

Edited March 17, 2017 by (PS4)Ransalot
To back my statement up

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I like the idea.

Cant do raids because my schedule basically makes me a loner, but have bought all arcanes I wanted.

People who do raids and get plenty of plats will say your idea sucks and the rest will like it.

[UmbraDestroyer]

No no no no no. Do not touch arcanes. Because arcanes will recive similar fate as ignis wraith have ( motivation to complete trials, in situation with ignis tryhard event) 1pl for each blueprint, no clan prestige. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by UmbraDestroyer

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Ransalot said:

1) generic team comp requirements from hosts

If you don't like the team comp requested than you host your own raid. The host gathers their own resources and credits to build the key to host the raid. If you don't know what you're doing, than you're at the mercy of doing what the host requests of you. If you do know and want your own comp, why aren't you hosting?

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Ransalot said:

2) again, requirements. MR requirements

This is not true for all cases. Most players dictate mr as a way to identify experience with the game, not skill. Must have mic is also false, I mean C'mon i just did the rather today with randoms. No mics. When people request mics, its because they want to allieviate uncertainty b/c they don't trust you. Type in the chat that you dont have a mic but you are actively listening and can follow instructions. You'll come to find out that's what most people want anyway. 

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Ransalot said:

3) Not enough people/clans who are willing to teach

While it may be difficult at times. if you don't put in the work to look for someone to teach you, you need to look to get the work done yourself. 

If every person who knew how to do the raids today decided that they wouldn't teach a single person would that stop you from ever doing one? Would you just give up? Honestly it already sounds like people have and that isn't even the case. Also, if there was a clan that would teach people how to raid and your clan didn't I personally would join the other clan. They are more experienced and "better" from that alone.

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Ransalot said:

4) Not that rewarding

To each his own. I enjoy my avenger, energize, pulse, trickey, grace sets. 

Anyway, this isn't the first time this idea has come up and wont be the last. Just thought I'd put my 2 cents in again.

For those waiting on a token system, arcanes in sorties, an auction house..I wouldn't hold my breath.

Edited March 17, 2017 by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru

[aligatorno]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)lhbuch said:

 

People who do raids and get plenty of plats will say your idea sucks and the rest will like it.

This seems to me to be the running narrative so far. They don't want their precious little gold mine to dry out slowly. People who love the raids would do them regardless. I can understand their judgement, I just don't agree with it at all. A better for game everyone is better than a bigger wallet for me. 

Edited March 17, 2017 by aligatorno

[(PSN)lhbuch]

1 minute ago, aligatorno said:

This seems to me to be the running narrative so far. They don't want their precious little gold mine to dry out slowly. 

I think that everything in game should have more than one way to be obtained. Seems more democratic and fun not to force a player into a situation he must do one mission or use plats for anything in game.

[Betaboost]

     Sure, let's think what would happen if things were done your way. Remove the normal lenses from the drop table and insert *all* arcanes in their place, with the normal common/uncommon/rare distribution all other drops in the game have. Enjoy your 0.22% chance to get your Energize/Grace after you manage to appease the  RNG gods to bestow you the arcane reward from the sortie. And I hope you like your Awakenings and Deflections, because you'll get a lot of those (something most people who raid are all too painfully aware of).

     On a more serious note, no, arcanes should stay as a raid reward. You have my sympathies if you're on console since WRSB doesn't cover you there but on PC the solution exists, is simple and it works. If you don't want to put the minimal effort required to join the Warframe Raid School Bus server and follow along then you shouldn't ask for what amounts to the complete gutting of a game mode. Different game modes have different rewards, let the raids have theirs. Otherwise where exactly do we stop? Should Ivara only be available from Spy missions? Dual stat mods? Xiphos/Mantis/Scimitar parts? Conclave skins? The list can get big if we go down this rabbit hole.

[(PSN)Ransalot]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

To each his own. I enjoy my avenger, energize, pulse, trickey, grace sets. 

Surprising you didn't quote the whole paragraph, but I'm pretty sure you don't get sets in one go. My point was not about if it's rewarding in long term. To get more players to bother with raids there has to be more variety of rewards at the end of the raids besides 1 arcane and 30min booster. Don't even bother mentioning the 100k creds, that can be easily earned elswhere in a lesser amount of time. 

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)Ransalot said:

Surprising you didn't quote the whole paragraph, but I'm pretty sure you don't get sets in one go. My point was not about if it's rewarding in long term. To get more players to bother with raids there has to be more variety of rewards at the end of the raids besides 1 arcane and 30min booster. Don't even bother mentioning the 100k creds, that can be easily earned elswhere in a lesser amount of time. 

So.. Because the raid doesn't offer a substantial short term reward, (ignoring the potential profit of a single arcane or the fact that arcanes do have effects at rank 1) they're not worth doing?

Then don't do them. 

Somehow the arcane is with something if it's given in a sortie, but not worth anything if you have to learn the raid.