Seems the goal is to simply break the Tonkor. Why?

[Fallen_Echo]

16 minutes ago, jmthebigman said:

Idk how many people said make tonkor in line with other explosives, remove the no self dmg or allow other explosives to not deal self dmg either.

DE listened and delivered.

There were more post to remove self-damage completely or atleast rework it then posts about the tonkor should deal sd.

[JalakBali]

On 3/24/2017 at 8:42 PM, DEATHLOK said:

But DE wants to break the Tonkor because it is popular? This is the reasoning being presented by official YouTube content creators.

Youtubers are not neutral scientists. They're bound to get butthurt when their favorite toy got taken away.

 

I like find it funny how they (and your post) never addressed *why* the weapon is so popular, as if it's popular only because it's just so good at making jokes and being the highlight at birthday parties.

[DEATHLOK]

Do you get paid to bait the community? Your insults and mockery aren't contributing anything to the discussion. You might turn it down a bit.

Edited March 26, 2017 by DEATHLOK

[(PSN)AtomicEyekon]

Abusing? Using the weapon to its best potential, it seems that people who are bothered by pros that only want to complete the mission as fast as possible because they play these missions numerous times kill these enemies numerous times. If you don't want to play with these people then don't be on public.

[Feaden]

Did some tests. My 7 Forma Tonkor can kill Mirage in shadows with -95% dmg and rest mods for tankiness (especially wasted endo for it) with 1 shoot from as far as it can deal dmg (with should scale down as you go further away). 
This (well nerf is the wrong word it should be called) bad rework is comparable to ppl saying hey trams shouldn't use tram tracks let's put them on the roads.

[IIGodFatherII]

On 24/03/2017 at 0:50 PM, Snowman486 said:

Imo, tonkor isn't just popular, its overpowered, and the nerf was a long time coming. It dishes out insane amounts of damage in an AoE without self damage... Self-damage nerf was absolutely essential (not to mention overdue) and the additional crit nerf helps to further bring it in line with other launchers.

1. go and tell that to the person who dies every time he/she pulls the trigger in confined space and don't try to argue your way out by saying oh yeah learn how to shoot it was OP and etc because if you think its op don't use the weapon there is that a simple solution because if you hate the weapon so much you should not make it in the first place. but don't give reason be cause you are jealous that people kill the target before you and mind you u can miss with tonkor too you have to aim.
2. TONKOR can never be compared to other launchers because they detonate on impact for example Ogris where as tonkor does not and penta detonate on remote so if your taking away bullet jump that has been there for many years you should either introduce a new weapon that can bullet jump or make the tonkor un-craftable or buy-able to those who are new players instead of what you have done now in 2017 and don't take it away from old players.
3. Also To: DE if your reading this. If you want to make the weapon nerfed ( re-balance i call in your term, seems more like a joke but sure call it re-balance call it apple for all i care won't change what you did) no offense or disrespect intended i am just trying to point out the problem
4. Make it nerfed but don't take away bullet jump simply cause somebody said it; its OP and you don't have to aim and etc, because its part of history its something or better idea is what i said in paragraph (2)
5. You can't take away history because if you do your giving people a reason not to play the game cause they cant rely on YOU to make the game playable, Because everything people love about the game your breaking them part by part. Like you did with void keys and you did a year ago with tonkor and you did it again this time with tonkor again you have removed bullet jump before also but it was reverted back and you did it again you broke it.
6. call A vote box where everyone can vote weather tonkor should be reverted back to what it was or this useless tonkor you made now and do think before you change something that keeps game together. after all its your game you want to make it profitable not make loss.
7. so my question is what do you really have against tonkor?

[portyiu]

Give the Tonkor back to the childs, dont make them quit the game, they already are crying. In the end they are those who play money for in-game usage and you get rich.

[skinotik]

16 hours ago, IIGodFatherII said:

7. so my question is what do you really have against tonkor?

Launcher weapon without self-damage is stupid and make no sense.  It make all other launcher completely and utterly useless and sub-part to the Tonkor.  

They were 2 solution to this problem.

1.  Remove self-damage to all launcher and transform Warframe into Launcherframe or WarLauncher.
2. Add self-damage to Tonkor.

With that being said, self-damage should be tweak to avoid getting 1-shot everytime.  Getting 1-shot is unfun.  2-shot I'm fine with, or 1-shot in extreme case that you really shoot at your feet (like the Tonkor was mainly used ...).

[IIGodFatherII]

1 hour ago, skinotik said:

Launcher weapon without self-damage is stupid and make no sense.  It make all other launcher completely and utterly useless and sub-part to the Tonkor.  

They were 2 solution to this problem.

1.  Remove self-damage to all launcher and transform Warframe into Launcherframe or WarLauncher.
2. Add self-damage to Tonkor.

With that being said, self-damage should be tweak to avoid getting 1-shot everytime.  Getting 1-shot is unfun.  2-shot I'm fine with, or 1-shot in extreme case that you really shoot at your feet (like the Tonkor was mainly used ...).

you cant read can you. (if your a transfer from counter strike with real life game play with 1 shot hit you die then please do you self a favor go back to counter strike) This is war frame. not counter strike and as i said before tokor yes a launcher but not the same as the others, so when DE puts blast on impact on tonkor then come back to me and say what you said that it needs self damage until then don't bother. and when your surrounded by infested in survival and you cant kill anyone cause your dead already by your own weapons (tonkor) which has self damage that is stupid not re-balance. if you think tonkor is same as other launcher go craft them all and use them before you make your self look stupid, when u comment.

Edited April 2, 2017 by IIGodFatherII

[skinotik]

20 minutes ago, IIGodFatherII said:

If you think tonkor is same as other launcher go craft them all and use them before you make your self look stupid, when u comment.

No need to be insulting.  Attack/challenge idea, not people ...

As for infested, yup there is a faction that is a hard counter against launcher.  1 of 3 faction is a hard counter.  Where is the issu in that ?  Rock/paper/scissor mechanic in play there.  Tonkor just became a weapon that is more situationnal (which you need to setup to use aka CC/keep distance/more back line) than being a weapon that fill all role.

[IIGodFatherII]

36 minutes ago, skinotik said:

No need to be insulting.  Attack/challenge idea, not people ...

As for infested, yup there is a faction that is a hard counter against launcher.  1 of 3 faction is a hard counter.  Where is the issu in that ?  Rock/paper/scissor mechanic in play there.  Tonkor just became a weapon that is more situationnal (which you need to setup to use aka CC/keep distance/more back line) than being a weapon that fill all role.

bla this bla that doesn't matter tokor is tokor should stay tonkor not a weapon that no 1 can use. DE broke the weapon not balanced it. if you don't like tokor don't use tokor simple as  that or should ask for new weapon to be made instead of asking to brake the current weapon that everyone loves and few haters like your self.

no insult intended. if you think its insult i really don't give a F.

i been using tokor from day 1 and i plan to use it till i quit gaming which is more likely to happen if i don't get tokor back the way it used to be its not a threat its simply because without tonkor game will be boring to me because self damage brakes game for me if i die every time i pull the trigger no point playing. i tried nearly 80% of all in game weapons and only 1 i like is tonkor none else; given that fact i don't like any other weapon. i don't go asking around asking in forums oh make this weapon nerfed oh or make this weapon op because i don't like it. if tokor never meant to have the rocket jump it should not have been there in the first place for many years from the beginning but the fact is it was meant to be there, so therefore it should stay there. this is my last reply to likes of you, so say all you want i am not going to reply to stupidity. and again no insult intended

Edited April 2, 2017 by IIGodFatherII

[skinotik]

Well, the way I see the situation, Warframe isn't the game for you.  Warframe generally try to encourage people to play a lot of different weapon.  That's kind of the point of the Mastery Rank system which is the base of the leveling system of the said game.

Btw, I wasn't a Tonkor hater  (Hell, I had forma on my Tonkor too and I was playing it sometime).  I didn't ask for the nerf either, but I understand where the nerf came from.  I understand the pain of having a weapon you love getting nerf to oblivion, I had my Acrid nerf to the ground with Damage 2.0 back in the day.

Also the rocket jump of the Tonkor was there BEFORE bullet jump was introduce to the game.  Self-damage wasn't apply to the Tonkor to make the rocket jump mechanic possible.  The introduction of the bullet jump made that function of the Tonkor obselete.  That's the main reason why I see the self-damage back on the Tonkor.

On another note,  I personnaly think that self-damage should be look at and retune to make it less punishable for ALL launcher weapon (including the Tonkor).  

[Sloan441]

On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 9:06 AM, (PS4)Regiampiero said:

No argument here, just saying this was the last nail in Zephyr's coffin. 

People say all sorts of things. Doesn't necessarily make it so.

I use Zephyr all the time. I don't use the Tonkor at all. I don't have any issues with her.

She's not the best warframe for a number of situations, but you can say that about any warframe. Jobs, tools, etc.

[skinotik]

5 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

She's not the best warframe for a number of situations, but you can say that about any warframe. Jobs, tools, etc.

Well,  Zephyr kinda need a little bit of love.  Merging of her 1 and 2 into one ability would be nice for a start.

Edited April 2, 2017 by skinotik
bad @ grammar

[Sloan441]

Just now, skinotik said:

Well,  Zephyr kinda need a little bit love.  Merging of her 1 and 2 into one ability would be nice for a start.

I wouldn't complain, but she does have a niche and she's perfectly functional there.

If you need additional movement capability and/or near immunity to gunfire, she's your (warframe) girl. Just don't let the hyekka get too close...

[skinotik]

Just now, Sloan441 said:

I wouldn't complain, but she does have a niche and she's perfectly functional there.

If you need additional movement capability and/or near immunity to gunfire, she's your (warframe) girl. Just don't let the hyekka get too close...

Oh, I wasn't saying that she is useless,  Turbulence is great defensive skill and her movement capability is also great (but the slow fall passive kinda need to get used too).

What I would like to see in her kit is a buff that she could bring to a party.  Merging her 1 and 2 would open a skill slot to add that buff.  Which buff ? I dunno ... why not a punch trought + projectile speed buff ?

[Sloan441]

52 minutes ago, skinotik said:

 Merging her 1 and 2 would open a skill slot to add that buff.  Which buff ? I dunno ... why not a punch trought + projectile speed buff ?

She already has a projectile speed buff from her Slipstream augment.

Combining numbers 1&2 is a constant drumbeat on the forums and does make sense. What DE could so is combine 1&2 under the aegis of 1 and then convert the Divebomb augment into a feature of the new power, but it works on activation (makes more sense) and maybe also impact, because why not? What it would give you is the capability of sucking enemies into the vortices of her initial point of #1 activation, then you could shoot into the vortex with things like the Kulstar (and avoid blowing yourself up). It could also be left as an aug, which would force build decisions.

There are lots of things you could do to replace #2, but the sky is the limit there. She tends to lack damage abilities, but Mesa has a similar skillset in terms of effect and is damage oriented, so it might be better for Zephy to be more CC oriented. It's hard not to cannibalize other warframe powers, so what exactly it could be might tread on other 'frames bailiwicks.

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

1 hour ago, Sloan441 said:

I wouldn't complain, but she does have a niche and she's perfectly functional there.

If you need additional movement capability and/or near immunity to gunfire, she's your (warframe) girl. Just don't let the hyekka get too close...

She fulfilled the niche in force-detonating Tonkor shells on impact with a 236% Power Strength Jet Stream build, or 176% Power Strength coupled with Terminal Velocity. That was a unique build solely capable in her hands, and it was fun.

Very bereaved that this will not be case come u20 on consoles.

[skinotik]

10 minutes ago, Sloan441 said:

There are lots of things you could do to replace #2, but the sky is the limit there. She tends to lack damage abilities, but Mesa has a similar skillset in terms of effect and is damage oriented, so it might be better for Zephy to be more CC oriented. It's hard not to cannibalize other warframe powers, so what exactly it could be might tread on other 'frames bailiwicks.

Fair point.  But I dunno, vortex-like CC make me feel weird.  I would always compare it to Vauban vortex and Vauban vortex would always be better.  A wind tunnel could be kind of fun.  Ennemy move slower against the wind, if they go in the direction of the wind they go faster and get knockdown at the end of the tunnel.  Would fit in a CC context.

[Valkyr-Umbra]

On 4/1/2017 at 2:15 PM, IIGodFatherII said:

1. go and tell that to the person who dies every time he/she pulls the trigger in confined space and don't try to argue your way out by saying oh yeah learn how to shoot it was OP and etc because if you think its op don't use the weapon there is that a simple solution because if you hate the weapon so much you should not make it in the first place. but don't give reason be cause you are jealous that people kill the target before you and mind you u can miss with tonkor too you have to aim.
2. TONKOR can never be compared to other launchers because they detonate on impact for example Ogris where as tonkor does not and penta detonate on remote so if your taking away bullet jump that has been there for many years you should either introduce a new weapon that can bullet jump or make the tonkor un-craftable or buy-able to those who are new players instead of what you have done now in 2017 and don't take it away from old players.
3. Also To: DE if your reading this. If you want to make the weapon nerfed ( re-balance i call in your term, seems more like a joke but sure call it re-balance call it apple for all i care won't change what you did) no offense or disrespect intended i am just trying to point out the problem
4. Make it nerfed but don't take away bullet jump simply cause somebody said it; its OP and you don't have to aim and etc, because its part of history its something or better idea is what i said in paragraph (2)
5. You can't take away history because if you do your giving people a reason not to play the game cause they cant rely on YOU to make the game playable, Because everything people love about the game your breaking them part by part. Like you did with void keys and you did a year ago with tonkor and you did it again this time with tonkor again you have removed bullet jump before also but it was reverted back and you did it again you broke it.
6. call A vote box where everyone can vote weather tonkor should be reverted back to what it was or this useless tonkor you made now and do think before you change something that keeps game together. after all its your game you want to make it profitable not make loss.
7. so my question is what do you really have against tonkor?

I use a firestorm ogris fairly regularly (and did so when the tonkor was popular) so you might want to complain to someone else about confined spaces ;) I'm not gunna tell anyone to "learn how to shoot" because even if you're a great shot, you're probably gunna blow yourself up with your rocket launcher at one point or another if you're shooting it in confined spaces (especially with heavy caliber). That said, I would recommend carrying a strong secondary and/or melee (depending on your frame) so you don't need to use the launcher in risky areas. 

But to answer your question, what I had against tonkor was that it was it was OP as all hell (most, including those at DE, would likely agree with this) and I personally feel that self-damage is necessary for rocket launchers (again, I'm pretty sure most would agree with this). Now however, since the nerf, I've got nothing against tonkor.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Snowman486

[IIGodFatherII]

19 hours ago, Snowman486 said:

I use a firestorm ogris fairly regularly (and did so when the tonkor was popular) so you might want to complain to someone else about confined spaces ;) I'm not gunna tell anyone to "learn how to shoot" because even if you're a great shot, you're probably gunna blow yourself up with your rocket launcher at one point or another if you're shooting it in confined spaces (especially with heavy caliber). That said, I would recommend carrying a strong secondary and/or melee (depending on your frame) so you don't need to use the launcher in risky areas. 

But to answer your question, what I had against tonkor was that it was it was OP as all hell (most, including those at DE, would likely agree with this) and I personally feel that self-damage is necessary for rocket launchers (again, I'm pretty sure most would agree with this). Now however, since the nerf, I've got nothing against tonkor.

idk how many people can't read but you most certainly cant read at all. i said before don't try to argue your way out by saying op and u hate it and etc and it clearly states the question was to DE alone not you after point 3 and if its op don't use it why even bother and don't tell people how to play which you just did cause if everyone starts playing like the way you said then they are nothing more then a robot which does nothing then what its programed for.

" I would recommend carrying a strong secondary and/or melee (depending on your frame) so you don't need to use the launcher in risky areas.  "

 

and playing tonkor while only with linked to specific frame for specific ability then you might as well not play at all because 1 that's boring and 2 we don't play warframe to get bored. and if you want to play with a different frame oh yeah you cant cause it don't have that ability. so go knock your self out i don't care of your stupid recommendations and keep it to your self and don't tell me how to play cause maybe i don't want to use secondary and melee all the time then whats the point of having a primary. warframe might as well be called Meleeframe and think before you type you make ur self look stupid and maybe go back to warframe and see weather tonkor is a rocket launcher or grenade launcher.

Edited April 3, 2017 by IIGodFatherII

[(PSN)Xx_Weasle_xX]

Oh, it seems you were replying above to the OP. Nevermind.

Edited April 4, 2017 by (PS4)Xx_Weasle_xX

[DEATHLOK]

On 4/2/2017 at 10:18 AM, skinotik said:

Well, the way I see the situation, Warframe isn't the game for you.  Warframe generally try to encourage people to play a lot of different weapon.

LOL, no.

Warframe does NOT encourage players to use a variety of weapons. Most weapons in Warframe are total garbage: deal little damage, have no Critical or Status chance, or have lousy mechanics. This does not encourage anyone to use a variety of weapons; it demands players stick to the handful of weapons that are not total garbage.

DE would likely sell more boosters and resources if the garbage weapons weren't garbage. Logically, people would pour money into upgrading more than a handful of weapons if there were viable alternatives. But some genius decided weapon quality needs to plot out along a bell curve, and that is why only a dozen or so weapons in the entire game are worth upgrading with Forma and Catalysts. We call the rest Mastery Rank fodder.

The only way to fix the weapons is to manually tweak stats, but that might ruin the pretty bell curve.

But, please continue breaking weapons that are OP for low-level game play. I can't see that coming back to bite you.

Edited April 5, 2017 by DEATHLOK

[RacerDelux]

I see NOTHING wrong with the Tonkor getting self damage.

But I also think we REALLY need shield gating asap. That would make self damage a little more forgiving.

[StinkyPygmy]

The tonkors broken? this is news to me.

On 3/25/2017 at 4:25 AM, Mak_Gohae said:

Cause you have 0 control of the Tonkor nade. Why is this question still being asked?

What? Thats a joke right?