Regarding disruption of "co-op" gameplay

[(XBOX)ITDeveloping]

I expect that I may get the typical replies such as "you're playing in a pug, get over it", "her damage falls off", "your fault for not making a pre-made team" or even the even more condescending reply of "git gud", but i'm going to address something here that totally negates those nerfs/buffs on the premise of "co-op disruption"

Whether it be a fissure or alert these game types don't always take place where the enemy level causes some warframe abilities to fall off. In that situation it becomes very frustrating when you want to contribute towards the same goal, but instead you get Ember players who feel the need to rush ahead of everyone with their WoF toggled on and just absorbing all the kills.

I find this very counter-productive to nerfing weapons and to a greater extent buffing other weapons that somewhat newer players could pick up to try out.

I see people all the time complaining about the people who bring this point up, but the fact remains that not all content we play is high level and yes this is a problem. Then again people can also just cheese some of these missions with an ignis and kill hoarde too, but that's a discussion for another topic altogether.

So I ask, unless there is already a plan on nerfing some of the warframe abilities in this game, why even bother to nerf weapons.

Screenshot from the nitain alert I just finished.

Edited March 25, 2017 by (XB1)ITDeveloping

[(PSN)dursereg]

Run spore saryn guess who steals all the kills?

[(XBOX)ITDeveloping]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)dursereg said:

Run spore saryn guess who steals all the kills?

I anticipated this comment as well. You're not really adding anything to the discussion.

[(PSN)dursereg]

Just now, (Xbox One)ITDeveloping said:

I anticipated this comment as well. You're not really adding anything to the discussion.

All I read was soneone whining that someone else killed more enemies then they did and now wants a nerf. 

[Marine027]

Only that Ember only kills instant on low and mid tier mobs, high lvl you eather ahve her augment to stun them to take them out.

Tonkor and SImulor got nerfed because even in high level you had no downfall.

Ember atleast synergieses right from the start, boost and sutn with 2, 3 fora quick damge bosoe and knock enemys away.

Forgive me but, it feels ilike people are salty about there favorite thign got nerfed and now demed it on the next becasue "this" is now the better thing.

[(XBOX)ITDeveloping]

Forget it. These forums are more cancerous than region chat..and you totally missed the point of "co-op" disruption being a thing touted by DE themselves as to why some weapons are getting nerfed/reworked.

Edited March 25, 2017 by (XB1)ITDeveloping

[Nyaa314]

12 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ITDeveloping said:

Whether it be a fissure or alert these game types don't always take place where the enemy level causes some warframe abilities to fall off.

What do you propose? Nerf Ember so hard she's useless even in low level missions?

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ITDeveloping said:

You're not really adding anything to the discussion.

Discussion is when people state their opinions. Their opinions might differ from yours. This is not a reason to be agressive about people liking things you don't like.

[(XBOX)ITDeveloping]

I couldn't care less about a weapon nerf, I care about not being able to participate and feeling carried even though I can hold my own, yet i'm "whining"

[0relllius]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ITDeveloping said:

I couldn't care less about a weapon nerf, I care about not being able to participate and feeling carried even though I can hold my own, yet i'm "whining"

Even if you right, that's not the cause. just get over it and go on. I cried the same as you few weeks ago about being carried, and losing things due to host migration but nothing will move nothing. Even if you come here open thread and cry it will not add much more to DE attention to come here and nerf weapons cause Mr.ITD said. Just get over it, say thanks you have your resources. the only difference between you both if the amount of money you get at the end.

[--RV--D4VE-]

I don't see your point in this topic, like rly nerf Ember? Sad to say she is bs already. Why not nerf Valkyr? Id start with that :) 

No one ever said, that kills should be equal for everyone is that what you mean by not disrupting coop? 

Also if you don't wanna see certain behaviours there's always option to play solo.

Edited March 25, 2017 by --RV--D4VE-

[Infectedflea]

I hardly ever see ember used late game, if she gets a nerf she just won't be used at all...

[(XBOX)ITDeveloping]

I feel like the whole point of this thread was missed. It wasn't meant as a thread to cry about "muh kill count" it was meant to draw a comparison between weapon buffing and nerfing, warframe abilities and the fact that DE has started to analyse the way these things interact with each other.

Edited March 25, 2017 by (XB1)ITDeveloping

[JakeTrans]

Just been through a simliar mission, myself, it is annoying to be fair because it just take you ou the game as you say.  they nerfed bladestorm for simlar reason and I've seen amped up ember everyway perhaps with the simulator nerf PC just got perhaps ember is next. Perhaps change the ability to something like Blade storm would be better e.g directed but more damage?.

We will see what happen but I seen the problem along with Simulators/embers/old ash's. i find it intresting that simlualor mirage was good/ ember are good but blade storm wasn't I don;t want the game to stop other from killing 'my kills' but if a frame can move through a mission without worries about the enemies without firing a shot is OP to me.

Personally if that's how people want to play by pressing 4 and W and move the mouse that's fine, but to be fair if that is what they want to do, why are they playing co-op when they can just win the mission themselves without host migrations etc?

there is a huge Balance job underway I think but balance ain't easy so lets see what DE come up with for that one.

 

 

 

 

[yingji]

'Why even bother nerfing weapons' is a fine question indeed.

What a rabbit hole that would be to jump into. But let's not.

As for efficient clearing of screenfuls of low hp mobs, using e.g. Ember, that is literally how hoarde mode games work and why they exist and why people like them and that is literally what hoarde mode games are designed to facilitate and encourage.

Slowly killing each of 200 mobs with an artfully placed Lex Prime headshot is how not to enjoy an hour of hoarde mode video gaming for most people.

 

[(XBOX)ITDeveloping]

4 minutes ago, yingji said:

'Why even bother nerfing weapons' is a fine question indeed.

What a rabbit hole that would be to jump into. But let's not.

As for efficient clearing of screenfuls of low hp mobs, using e.g. Ember, that is literally how hoarde mode games work and why they exist and why people like them and that is literally what hoarde mode games are designed to facilitate and encourage.

Slowly killing each of 200 mobs with an artfully placed Lex Prime headshot is how not to enjoy an hour of hoarde mode video gaming for most people.

 

If a weapon can get the same results in end game as ember can get on trash mobs, but those weapons get nerfed and Ember stays how she is then where exactly is the balance?

I am just trying to find the logic amongst all of this mess in the forums regarding proposals to change game mechanics. That's all. I'm not trying to troll or upset other players here with my post.

[yingji]

You want to understand the logic, ok.

What drives decisions at gaming companies.

answer:
1) Money.

correct

Why not start with wondering how there could be any connection between money and a few items of gear dominating a game that pushes out 100s of gear items as its 'content'.

That would be a good place to begin if you were going to be Internet Detective and examine why a handful of popular and strong weapons get turned into MR fodder every so often.

In warframe, new guns are the primary form of new content (count the number of guns in the game vs, number of frames or quests) and putting forma on them is why people buy forma and do missions to get forma to put on their guns so they can go try out new guns with forma on them.

What if you had the one gun that ruled them all, would you need to bother with any of the others? Would you care about forma on them?

Now you are Internet Detective Level 2. Here is gold badge.

[(XBOX)ITDeveloping]

Why do you have to be so condescending? I tried to go out of my way to ask a question in the most reasonable manner with no subtlety of trolling so that I could better understand. Seems no matter how polite you are people are still going to act a certain way if you ask a question they don't like.

[yingji]

It's the answer you don't like.

Because my reply wasn't condescending in the least.

That is literally why meta guns get nerfed and other stuff doesn't.

You asked the question, I answered it. If you don't like the answer then that's with you.

[Iceheart125]

Okay, just for the argument of this particular situation: an alertium alert, and someone wanted it out of the way, so they could get back to their projects. i HATE running kuva missions, so i bring what will get them done the fastest. i need probably another fifteen thousand kuva, sixty thousand endo, and ten million credits just to finish out the top five weapons i use. i dont WANT to spend time in a nitain alert. i want to get back to what I want to do, but i need that nitain. so, ember and run. some people, one in a thousand, do this for every mission. most will take a speedrunning build and loadout for runs they just want over.

[yingji]

Yeah there are many speedrunning builds, try invisible loki with any gun, nezha with nice melee, these are all going to be blazing fast and run ahead and do more dps than players at the back of the line.

But to address OP's question in this context, such player behaviour has no impact on money coming into the game unlike meta guns, so no nerfing is called for.

[(XBOX)ITDeveloping]

8 minutes ago, yingji said:

It's the answer you don't like.

Because my reply wasn't condescending in the least.

That is literally why meta guns get nerfed and other stuff doesn't.

You asked the question, I answered it. If you don't like the answer then that's with you.

"Now you are Internet Detective Level 2. Here is gold badge."

Yeah, not condescending at all is it.

[yingji]

No really, once you have put 'money decisions' into any discussion about why things are done by commercial companies, then truly you are gold badge status and everything becomes crystal clear and simple. It is literally real life levelling up, old people call it wisdom.

[ChuckMaverick]

There are generally three reasons why I run public missions...

1. I want it done quickly (alerts, invasions, etc.)
2. It's challenging content (some sortie missions)
3. I want to choose from 4 relics

Most of the time I'll take an efficient loadout into those missions, either for speed or because the challenge merits it. I'm happy to see other efficient loadouts in those missions because it means I'll achieve my goal quicker and/or easier.

If I'm playing just to have fun, then I'll either run solo or join/form a squad in clan/recruiting chat.

[0relllius]

Btw, as someone stated above let's first start on why they are not nerfing the warcry of the valkyer first, it doesn't even matter when you keep whining on a mission that you got carried, say thanks.

[Miser_able]

While I understand how you feel there is a difference between nuking lvl 10s and nuking lvl 100s. Any frame can nuke lvl 10s with the right build but only unbalanced OP content can nuke anything. Only the unbalanced stuff needs nerfs.