[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Frenjo]

1 minute ago, Brainwright said:

No, Rift Surge works just fine.  You use it to keep enemies in the Rift and bring in new friends to play with.  All of Limbo's abilities have a strict, well-defined function now.

Not for me and the people i've spoken to.

[AugustFestival]

Just now, Frenjo said:

You can, but for the general user banish is still useless. And apparently they don't actually cast banish, or they do but it's in a weird way with like a 7m aoe which is literally nothing. Either way- People have said it's broken and I haven't seen it work like that ever. So... I dunno :P

Its not casting? It works fine for me.

[Frenjo]

Just now, AugustFestival said:

Its not casting? It works fine for me.

No, it just doesn't perform the banish that it's supposed to do, only charges enemies then does nothing afterwards.

[AugustFestival]

7 minutes ago, Frenjo said:

No, it just doesn't perform the banish that it's supposed to do, only charges enemies then does nothing afterwards.

Banish works fine, press 1, banish in an aoe, statis and then rift surge the mobs, shoot the mobs and wait for the banish to end, when it does non rifted mobs will become rifted. 

All while sitting there casually lol

What problems are you having.

Edited March 28, 2017 by AugustFestival

[Frenjo]

Just now, AugustFestival said:

Banish works fine, press 1, banish in an aoe, statis and then rift surge the mobs, shoot the mobs and wait for the banish to end, when it does non rifted mobs will become rifted. 

All while sitting there casually lol

It doesn't do that though... Either it's just me and the group I run with, or something's up.

[AugustFestival]

4 minutes ago, Frenjo said:

It doesn't do that though... Either it's just me and the group I run with, or something's up.

well then thats a bug, or, something, i don't have a problem with it at this point because statis and cataclysm plus melee limbo make you an untouchable god, its even more powerful than trinity, who i still prefer, but damn its fun.

Edited March 28, 2017 by AugustFestival

[Alcatraz]

You can see how much damage it does just by simply looking at the numbers popping up on enemies all around. Let enemies hit it for increased damage  on it. Use 3rd skill after using 2nd skill to increase the range on it.

I must admit I don't exactly see what meter you're speaking of that you need on the hud.

[Frenjo]

1 minute ago, AugustFestival said:

well then thats a bug, or, something, i don't have a problem with it at this point because statis and cataclysm plus melee limbo make you an untouchable god, its even more powerful than trinity, who i still prefer, but damn its fun.

Yeah, I feel we've basically been given two useless abilities + two that are super op and basically needed.

[AugustFestival]

3 minutes ago, Frenjo said:

Yeah, I feel we've basically been given two useless abilities + two that are super op and basically needed.

Equinox waves hello

 

Edited March 28, 2017 by AugustFestival

[Frenjo]

Just now, AugustFestival said:

Equinox waves hello lol

Literally, now the only MAJOR change I think we need, is just banish being multiplane as a start, then I can stop complaining and figure out what Rift Surge does :D

[EternalOdyessy]

Just now, Alcatraz said:

You can see how much damage it does just by simply looking at the numbers popping up on enemies all around. Let enemies hit it for increased damage  on it. Use 3rd skill after using 2nd skill to increase the range on it.

I must admit I don't exactly see what meter you're speaking of that you need on the hud.

Try basing it off numbers alone when you're in a squad with Ember, Nidus, and Mesa.

 

Also, when I tried to get a screenshot of the meter, I...actually can't get it to show up, now? Both in the Simaculrum, and in the main game. Seems like it's bugged.

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

On 3/24/2017 at 5:03 PM, Thesiobhan said:

Being unable to banish people while in the rift just makes him play so slow, honestly can we just make banish do no damage and let it bring people in and out of the rift. I want to do fun rift shenanigans, and it feels really slow and clunky now. I have to drop out of the rift to bring people back in, which will be death at higher levels, honestly as I'm levelling him up, banish is just killing enemies straight out sadly. I  get the idea behind it, to not let him just stay in the rift forever and bring enemies in at his leisure, but there needs to be some different way of doing that, because this way doesn't feel fun. Maybe make it so he only can stay in the rift for X seconds that scales with power duration, and then has to drop out for a bit. I don't know.

As for me, the dashing in and out of the rift works fine, don't have a problem with that, just the fact that his 1 doesn't synergize well.

I've been a Limbo main since Excalibur had Super Jump. If Limbo could Rift Surge enemies outside the Rift Plane while he's in the Rift Plane, it would mark them to be banished. For example, lets say you dash into the void, use Stasis, then Rift Surge on the enemies around you. THEN banish those surged enemies because they are surged. Just an idea. Also I feel like the new patch that "fixed" Limbo not being able to get taken out the Rift Plane by Nullifiers was wrong to do. He is in a whole new dimension and that mechanic was legit. The Nullifier can't damage you, and you can't damage them. It's fair. What's the harm? Limbo is not a tank or invisible based frame; he should of been able to keep this advantage. It would keep him safe and allow you to plan on how to get rid of the Nullifier without getting gunned down by the surrounding enemies. It was tactical and fun and actually had me thinking. This mechanic needs to be given back to Limbo.

[Frenjo]

Just now, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

I've been a Limbo main since Excalibur had Super Jump. If Limbo could Rift Surge enemies outside the Rift Plane while he's in the Rift Plane, it would mark them to be banished. For example, lets say you dash into the void, use Stasis, then Rift Surge on the enemies around you. THEN banish those surged enemies because they are surged. Just an idea. Also I feel like the new patch that "fixed" Limbo not being able to get taken out the Rift Plane by Nullifiers was wrong to do. He is in a whole new dimension and that mechanic was legit. The Nullifier can't damage you, and you can't damage them. It's fair. What's the harm? Limbo is not a tank or invisible based frame; he should of been able to keep this advantage. It would keep him safe and allow you to plan on how to get rid of the Nullifier without getting gunned down by the surrounding enemies. It was tactical and fun and actually had me thinking. This mechanic needs to be given back to Limbo.

Let's focus on fixing the existing stuff before we add even more...

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

12 hours ago, Frenjo said:

Let's focus on fixing the existing stuff before we add even more...

I'm just giving an idea not necessarily saying it should to be done now

[Frenjo]

Just now, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

I'm just giving an idea not necessarily saying it should to be done now

Yeah, I'm getting extremely paranoid that they're going to break my favourite/main frame even further...

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

12 hours ago, Frenjo said:

Yeah, I'm getting extremely paranoid that they're going to break my favourite/main frame even further...

Agreed.....same here. To be honest I really want the ability to sit in a Nullifier bubble without getting taken out back in the game because I grew on it fast and it felt so legit. It WAS legit. Different dimension no effect right? And then you couldn't cast anything while in the bubble. It was so good....

[DreamsmithJane]

Rift Surge is not working just fine, people. Of all the functions described in the 'abilities' section of the arsenal, the only one that's actually working is that charged enemies perform a PBAoE banish when they leave the rift. There is no damage chain reaction as described when they die, and enemies that die while charged only spread the charge if they die inside the rift, not outside of it as described. Furthermore, enemies being charged outside of the rift is pointless. It does literally nothing, as they lose the charge on entering the rift, and they don't spread the charge or interact with it in any way outside of the rift. Rift Torrent could potentially benefit from these additional charges, but otherwise, it seems pretty broken and unhelpful.

Of all the features described, only one is actually happening. That is not fine. It's broken. Either the description needs to be changed to match the behaviour, or the behaviour needs to be changed to match the description. Alternatively, both could change, as the ability currently seems rather limited, and the description doesn't make sense (as it fails to explain how the conditions for part of its supposed function could possibly come about). Whatever the case, again, Rift Surge is not fine.

[(PSN)NoVa_Erk]

are enemies able to shoot you through the rift from outside?

[Ry0uSh1n]

**Posted this in Hotfix 20.0.4 figured id post here as well**

 

After dusting Limbo off and trying out his rework post 20.0.4, the being immune to nullifiers while in your own plane of existence was nice. Gave limbo the ability in high level situations to become a void field medic to revive your team and if things got too hairy limbo could just rush to extract with the rest of the team ko. Not being able to banish enemies from within the rift made no sense. I mean what good is the rift if I cant bring the enemy into my plain and just tear them to shreds. At low levels to a certain mid-high level this would help alleviate added stress to myself or fellow tenno if I take a small group and deal with them.

Ok, ill pick at that a minute. You gave limbo a passive ability which made him immune to all damage, aside from blast damage from environment, grenades and all other things limbo players have listed that they have taken damage from while in the void.

So he wasn't totally immune and I'll chock the damage received while in the void from a source outside the void as intentional. Given that possibly in some messed up warframe lore that damage from an outside source, that isn't a weapon, could cause possible spacial anomalies to send ripples into the void damaging limbo. Ok, ok.  Ill accept that.

Now, 20.0.4, I think DE logic here is in a PVE situation the risk of losing rewards due to everyone running out of revives gave limbo the ability to remove that risk, so that needed to be changed. Ok, well if that were the case change his passive entirely. Because if nullifiers can nullify limbos passive, all frames should have their passives nullified when in contact with nullifier bubble. Going off DE Logic of 20.0.4 that's pretty much what I see, except DE is singling out limbo only.

Another thing I see, is that ok, say they did not change limbo's passive leaving him immune to nullifiers, limbo runs around in the void, given that IF he could banish from within the void, he could have stasis active banish from within the void a group of enemies, dish out damage in hopes that its enough to eliminate those enemies upon deactivation of stasis. If not depending on level of enemy could just be a simple finish them off or that enemy or enemies remaining could just eat through limbo and put him on his butt.

So at low to mid-high (I'll say level 80's just for example), limbo would be almost unstoppable with his current kit, IF his passive was not affected by nullifiers and IF he could banish enemies from within the rift. Now given that aside from being immune to grineer and infested since as far as I know neither faction has a way to "disturb" the void and pull limbo out of it. Making him practically unstoppable given what I said in line 1 of this paragraph. As far as corpus, nullifiers in this case, remove the use of any power by all frames when in touch or inside the nully bubble. So limbo is strong against 2 factions and weak against 1 factions unit in this case in regards to power use outside the void. (This does not include syndicate hunting groups that spawn on players as so far from what ive seen they are immune to stasis/cata combos. Correct me if I am wrong on this.)

Yet if limbo is inside the void how in the world can nullifiers stop him from using powers? Scratching my head on this one.

So the limbo we actually have that is practically high risk play is, non banishing from inside rift. Passive nerf because hey nullifiers only affect limbos passive. (insert "what" meme) Which given his current kit you could stasis and cataclysm grineer/infested and keep moving taking no damage from big groups, or deal with them how ever that limbo player decides. 

Limbo is suppose to be "Master of the Rift." Yet he is more like novice of the rift. I just cant fathom how this is a rework when it seems to be more of a disaster. I say just change his passive to something useful all around that is unaffected by nullifiers or change it so all frames have their passives nullified. Stop singling out limbo. 

[Ta10S]

46 minutes ago, Ry0uSh1n said:

So the limbo we actually have that is practically high risk play is, non banishing from inside rift. Passive nerf because hey nullifiers only affect limbos passive. (insert "what" meme) Which given his current kit you could stasis and cataclysm grineer/infested and keep moving taking no damage from big groups, or deal with them how ever that limbo player decides. 

Nullifers also affect nidus's passive. Please add nidus to nullifier victim family.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Ta10S

[ThymeL0rd]

TO be perfectly honest, for the main part I enjoy playing Limbo more now than I used to do. I don't pretend to be pretentious and say I was a Limbo main and was very good at him like many here, but Limbo has always been one of my top three Picks for frames theme wise. I really like him, but I don't want to seem like I play him awfully well and these are comments from one who knows all, etc

As many people have said, I find the mechanic of not being able to banish while in rift a pain and clunky. It has turned banish, for me, into one of those token 1st abilities that are useless higher level. I use Cat. every time I want to banish someone which is a waste of energy. But as this has already been so heavily commented on, I will say no more on here.

I am finding constant irritation with the fact that my allies not in the rift can still damage enemies inside the rift. Not significantly, mind you, but after running a ODS with two Valkyrs with heavy melees I found that they could run up to enemies in stasis (while not in the rift) and spam-melee them, gradually wearing down the health. I'm not sure if this is a bug but if so please fix it, theres no point giving me the opportunity to freeze enemies and set up projectiles etc if my melee OP teamates can still beat the credits out of them.

Finally the first few times I discovered I could walk into a nullifier bubble, I was overjoyed. This was actually something I thought should have been a thing a long time ago. If Limbo is on a different plane of reality, Nullifiers shouldn't be able to do anything to him. So disappointed they removed that feature.

Summary

-Let banish work in the rift or have a functionality Cat. does not to make people use it

-Hotfix allies' ability to kill enemies that are in the rift while they themselves are not in the rift

-Bring back Limbo's ability to enter Nullifier bubbles

 

(As a side note while watching Limbo's new dash animation I just thought how cool it would be if he could jump/teleport into his Cataclysm from a distance quote un quote 'rift walk')

 

[Quanlain]

1 hour ago, Ry0uSh1n said:

**Posted this in Hotfix 20.0.4 figured id post here as well**

 

-text-

I really understand your opinion on nullifiers pushing limbo out of the rift. But actually: Limb's passive is 10 energy regen per enemy killed in the rift. 
This part is not getting blocked by Nulls, however it's hard to use it while outside of the rift itself. Shame that Limbo lost his 50% boost to holster and reload, that was neat.

For me, rift dodge is an active skill, that requires no energy and is oddly bound to shift key, because it causes movement, and pretty much applicable to be used as such. And let's be honest, complete invulnerability is a bit of a cheese, especially on top lvl. I always hat do get rid of nulls before i revive, because without nulls, you could stay forever.
 

So far, what i've learned, limbo can bring enemies from outside of rift, while staying in rift himself, and Rift surge helps with it perfectly fine. But problem is: it costs kinda too much just to make a worse version of banish, because skill currenlty works 50% and nobody really understood how it works now. 
How i use this ability: i banish one (or a group) enemy, to start the chain. I use rift surge, thus charging them up, and getting buff from rift torrent augment. I'm killing some of the enemies, and then i use banish on the remaining one (while he is under influence of Rift surge) - this basically pops more enemies in the banish, rather than unbanishing single enemy. Then just repeat this, and you can infinitely bring enemies in the rift, while staying pretty much untouched.

Problem with this strategy is: you still can not  pick thing up, use objectives, or do anything but killing enemies. So when i heard that DE will remove this thing, i thought that it will be ok. 
It was partially removed, but only when it comes to cataclysm. In other situations, teammates and limbo himself are still unable to loot, or interact with things. So practically, Staying solo survival as Limbo is impossible with such strategy. I onl lasted for 18 minutes on Kuva fortress survival, then i just ran out of oxygen and was forced to evacuate.

There are a lot of new confusing aspects for Limbo and his allies now.

What i would add/change is:
[QOL]: 
-Small tip window (think of kuva tip, when it tells you about using operator) on how to leave rift for teammates.
-Stationary rift dodge option, because i often need to stay in place rather than sliding 5 meters away from objective. This can easilly be added just by adding trigger without any movement key acting.
-Also, i would make rift tear (that thingy after rift dodge) interactable, rather than contact, because i've already heard some really mean curses from my teammates fro banishing them, although it was comletely unintentional.
-Make Banish AoE prioritise enemies, if enemy was initially targeted, same thing for allies. This will remove the confusion that banish bring to teamplay. Also made some people curse me in teamchat with legit hate, so yeah, it's just uncomfortable to play around people that are cursing you, even thou you don't even think about trolling/griefing.
-Currently, Rift surge is odd, and works 50% of it's purpuse (nobody can see any damage from it); Radial banish works as intended. With Rift torrent you can get nice numbers in buffs.
-And if possible, wich is probably most OP thing that i would want, is to make Rift Surge actually an always-applying buff for it's duration as it is with stasis. Because it just Devours Energy to recast Rift sure after 3-4 enemies killed, unless you are playing through the huge radius/duration. It really hurts energy, trust me. However, with this strategy (Strength + duration build) limbo can rapidly take enemies in the rift and kill them while maintaining big damage values and beign safe.

Overall. What i want to say is that this rework IS GEAT, by any means. By far it was the biggest and best warframe rework of all. Whoever responcible for this though about it with a reason: this person wanted people to dig deep and see the potential and all the synergies. Probably the biggest shoutout to Scott, because he was only one person talking about Rework.
And from my point of view: I've had concerns, and i've made some big topics about them. And after rework i was completely amazed: as if DE just read literally every single of my concern and just straight up said: "this guy is right, we need to change this". Thanks for that awesome feel. Also, i've seen a lot of commynity ideas, such as rift tear and dash itself (probably). Rework is done, and i don't really think that DE will add any of my listed QOL changes, but if that would happen, i would just be happy about it and never remember about Limbo needing something more. he will remain my most played warframe, i hope, and just neat one. Been playing him since his release. 



 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Quanlain

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

1 hour ago, Quanlain said:

-Stationary rift dodge option, because i often need to stay in place rather than sliding 5 meters away from objective. This can easilly be added just by adding trigger without any movement key acting.
 

This alone would probably save Limbo for me. I personally think Rift Walking is powerful and fundamental to his power set be one of Limbo's 4 powers in its own right (as DE apparently used to believe), instead of a free 5th (or 6th, if you count focus) power, but that sentiment doesn't seem to get a lot of traction. I would be unlikely to play with the other synergies because frankly, I don't give a damn about Limbo's damage potential; I used him so I didn't have to fight anything. 

I would be thankful if I didn't have to take special measures such as facing into a corner and riftwalking just so I don't slide into a laser, or some bullS#&$. With the fact that crouch and roll can't be separated on consoles, there's the extra risk that a split-second too long or too short on the button press ends up doing the wrong command - rolling when I meant to crouch; crouching when I needed to roll.

When Rift Walk was a straight power with duration, an accidental crouch or roll was very unlikely to risk blowing a spy vault or exposing myself to danger. Now that the maneuver attached to the button also involves changing rift state, I foresee a whole lot of "GOD DAMMIT!" moments. 

Edited March 28, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

25 minutes ago, minidelight said:

After fooling around with octavia+mallet i have to agree with everything in the post above.

OCtavia is press 1 to win cheese mode,   just drop mallet + 4, hide behind a pillar and go make some sandwichs or something and rape everything that comes in room, it destroys corpus...nullifiers everything lv 100+ , after the recent nerfs to ash press4towin, tonkor simulors...i dont understand how can DE release a cheese frame like octavia.

 

 

 

It's also kinda sad that the cheese power is her 1. You don't even have to level up to hit Cheeseframe. 

[bl4ckhunter]

7 hours ago, Frenjo said:

Yeah, I feel we've basically been given two useless abilities + two that are super op and basically needed.

rift surge is quite useful actually even if i will admit that the augment is kind of mandatory now, try building for max range efficiency and neutral strenght, dash -> stasis -> cataclysm -> rift surge -> collapse cataclysm nukes everything now.